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Is Crossfire Worth it With DirectX12

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I was thinking about crossfiring 2 RX 480's. A lot of people speak negatively of crossfire but from what I've heard Crossfire is just going to get better with DirectX 12.

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2 minutes ago, Bobby_Joe_90 said:

I was thinking about crossfiring 2 RX 480's. A lot of people speak negatively of crossfire but from what I've heard Crossfire is just going to get better with DirectX 12.

Considering DX12 doesn't use CF or SLI I would say it is worthless. This is why you can run an AMD GPU and an Nvidia GPU for the same task. But this requires active devs and some work which we can count on none of them doing 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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But scaling with DX12 for 2 cards is WAY better then CF or SLI could ever be. Almost 1:1 I think, maybe even 1:1

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Don't even bother. History tends to repeat itself and it's been shown time and time again that running two low end cards in sli or crossfire requires all the stars to line up and a stroke of luck to get acceptable performance. 

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Just now, kurahk7 said:

Don't even bother. History tends to repeat itself and it's been shown time and time again that running two low end cards in sli or crossfire requires all the stars to line up and a stroke of luck to get acceptable performance. 

DX12 doesn't use CF. It uses each card 1:1 scaling is perfect. That is why it is amazing. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

DX12 doesn't use CF. It uses each card 1:1 scaling is perfect. That is why it is amazing. 

Ok, even if that is so, 2 480s is not enough to provide a good enough gaming experience (imo) now and definitely not in the future. A good enough gaming experience is 60fps minimum at maxed settings at native screen res. 

 

Edit: To add to that, the OP would have to play exclusively DX12 games in which the devs properly utilize multi gpus. 

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1 minute ago, kurahk7 said:

Ok, even if that is so, 2 480s is not enough to provide a good enough gaming experience (imo) now and definitely not in the future. A good enough gaming experience is 60fps minimum at maxed settings at native screen res. 

But the RX480x which is 2 480s on the same PCB did better then a GTX1080 is AOTS. I don't see any AAA games going back either. All new AAA games and some smaller ones will use Vulkan or DX12 or both. DX12 can use async very well which Nvidia cards just straight up don't have. at 4K 8XMSSA is worthless

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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28 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

But scaling with DX12 for 2 cards is WAY better then CF or SLI could ever be. Almost 1:1 I think, maybe even 1:1

Source?

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1 minute ago, SamStrecker said:

But the RX480x which is 2 480s on the same PCB did better then a GTX1080 is AOTS. I don't see any AAA games going back either. All new AAA games and some smaller ones will use Vulkan or DX12 or both. DX12 can use async very well which Nvidia cards just straight up don't have. at 4K 8XMSSA is worthless

So.. you're saying in the best possible scenario for the 480s, it's unable to provide a good enough gaming experience? The 480s was only able to achieve 62.5fps average at I believe 1080p maxed settings in AMD's demo. That's not a very good sign because future games will only be more demanding. 

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5 minutes ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Source?

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-launching-dual-gpu-flagship-graphics/

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, kurahk7 said:

So.. you're saying in the best possible scenario for the 480s, it's unable to provide a good enough gaming experience? The 480s was only able to achieve 62.5fps average at I believe 1080p maxed settings in AMD's demo. That's not a very good sign because future games will only be more demanding. 

It was 2560X1440 at ultra settings. Keep in mind this is their low-mid rang card. They still have Vega coming later this year. Same with Nvidia they still have the Titan and 1080ti coming. Both should perform much better. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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DX12 doesnt do anything about the fact that most devs will never implement multi-GPU support

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12 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

It was 2560X1440 at ultra settings. Keep in mind this is their low-mid rang card. They still have Vega coming later this year. Same with Nvidia they still have the Titan and 1080ti coming. Both should perform much better. 

Went back and checked, it is 1080p

 

I still stand by my recommendation of buying the single most powerful gpu that you can instead of two lesser gpus. 

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I'm not sure I understand all the hate for multi-gpu setups. I've been running SLI and Crossfire exclusively for the last 10 years and have never really had any major problems. I won't sit here and say it's a set and forget scenario, but if you are OK with tinkering it generally works very well. Only in a couple games that I play can I not get Crossfire or SLI to work. Even most indie games nowadays are built on robust engines that have native multi-gpu support. And even in cases where there isn't official support, most of the time you can still force the cards to work together. 

 

Basically, if you have the willpower to tinker and tweak, go for it. You will get better performance for your money in most titles.

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I've been posting this thread in multi-GPU discussions to give a look at the spectrum of things people who've run multi-GPU systems have to say about them.

My impression is that there's an over-statedness of their issues, perhaps usually coming from people who haven't run multi-GPU setups.

 

 

1 hour ago, kurahk7 said:

So.. you're saying in the best possible scenario for the 480s, it's unable to provide a good enough gaming experience? The 480s was only able to achieve 62.5fps average at I believe 1080p maxed settings in AMD's demo. That's not a very good sign because future games will only be more demanding. 

Sure, games are only going to become better. But the most powerful single-GPU card currently out, the GTX 1080, performed even worse than the 2x 480 setup, and was running at 97% GPU utilization, compared to the 2x 480 setup's 51% GPU utilization. So, if you're saying that the 2x 480 setup wasn't doing good enough because it was only managing ~60 FPS in this particular game... well, then you're also saying that the best possible scenario for everything else is even more unable to provide a good enough gaming experience.

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13 minutes ago, Masada02 said:

I'm not sure I understand all the hate for multi-gpu setups. I've been running SLI and Crossfire exclusively for the last 10 years and have never really had any major problems. I won't sit here and say it's a set and forget scenario, but if you are OK with tinkering it generally works very well. Only in a couple games that I play can I not get Crossfire or SLI to work. Even most indie games nowadays are built on robust engines that have native multi-gpu support. And even in cases where there isn't official support, most of the time you can still force the cards to work together. 

 

Basically, if you have the willpower to tinker and tweak, go for it. You will get better performance for your money in most titles.

When I had my dual 760s I never had an issue

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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I have run a lot of dual card setups in the past years, 4870X2, 5970, 2x 7970, 2x 680 and 2x 970. For the first time in 8 years I am going back to a single card in the 1080. I had nothing but issues on crossfire really, especially the 2x 7970's that had the worst microstutter I have ever seen, it was horrid. Nvidia SLI however had been pretty good to me, support was there on day 1 of a games release (which rarely happened on AMD) and most games got enough scaling to make 2x 970 a better deal than a single 980.

 

But things changed this year and I have a few reasons to be pessimistic about dual cards and why I chose a single 1080:

1) Quite a few games this year have not scaled at all let alone well. The division was the final straw for me having to play that game on quite reduced settings because it was only getting about +30% from the second card and even that took a month to arrive.

2) DX12 puts all the handling for multiple cards onto the developers of the games. They can set it to LDA or MDA but reality is they have to set it. Over the years I have seen less and less support for PC features from developers and handling them the keys to dual cards was as dumb as you can be, they aren't going to implement it as the current crop of DX12 games show.

 

So even beyond crossfire's issues with microstutter that continue to rear their ugly heads up we also have the direction of the gaming industry impacting on scaling. I can't think of a time I have been more pessimistic about dual cards. I thought about it long and hard and I am a big dual card user as I want to game 1440@165 currently so I need the horse power.

 

The reason DX11 has sucked is a new wave of algorithms that use inter frame calculations, so they use the old frame to influence the new one. This breaks the independence between frames so key to SLI/xfire scaling. DX12 combined with that requiring explicit support means with this generation of cards we are in my opinion going to have poor scalability for a while. Do not get 2x RX 480's, AMDs horrid support for the technology is reason enough but what is happening in the industry right now means dual cards in general is more risky than it has been in the past 8 years. 2x 970 was a no brainer compared to a 980, but 2x 1070 is not a no brainer compared to a 1080, partly because the gap is wider with the cards and partly because of game scaling, 8 our of 24 games today, ie 33% get 0 scaling at all, many others are at best +50% with only a few showing better than that. That is barely enough on average to close the gap between SLI and the bigger and cheaper on the whole card. If it was just games we didn't care about that would be different but its not.

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well i'm running a 970sli and i'll say its worth it if you want to add a 2nd gpu later because you dont have the money, you can take advantage in games such as  witcher 3,star citizen  and any other dual gpu supported games, if you play. the only problem i had which did not bother me at all is when i was running 2 5770 cf it had micro stutters but it did not bothered me(but that was an old card) 

 

However i did not experianced any micro stutter with the 970 soo i will assume its teh same fro the 480

lives on

BAKABT

 

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6 minutes ago, BirdyTheMighty said:

well i'm running a 970sli and i'll say its worth it if you want to add a 2nd gpu later

See, that's the key. Everyone in their right minds would pick one card right now, not two lesser cards because that's simply silly. 

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3 minutes ago, kurahk7 said:

See, that's the key. Everyone in their right minds would pick one card right now, not two lesser cards because that's simply silly. 

true but to many people $200 is alot of money and if thats ALL you can spend on and need it right now(assuming you dont have a gpu already) then why not as long as its within a year or so

lives on

BAKABT

 

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16 minutes ago, BirdyTheMighty said:

true but to many people $200 is alot of money and if thats ALL you can spend on and need it right now(assuming you dont have a gpu already) then why not as long as its within a year or so

But if $200 was their budget, they should wait and see the actual single gpu performance not the possible performance in crossfire. That's like comparing 2 970s vs a 980ti and seeing it perform better without considering the 390. However, the OP here is just straight up considering crossfiring 2 480s which should not be the route to go. 

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Like someone said before.  There seems to be a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding on what DX12 multi gpu support actually is.  It's not automatic.  It requires developers to specifically engineer multi gpu management into their game engine.  That is a costly endeavor in both time and difficulty for a low return (number of people with more than one actual GPU).  I doubt we'll see much adoption given the far easier and cost effective alternative.  That being following the general guidelines from the nvidia/amd for SLI/CF support.  It doesn't require much from the developer. They can then communicate with nvidia/amd to offload multi gpu support them. 

Thrive on change. Embrace volatility.

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