Probability question

[spartaman64]

Lets say you made a program that generates red, green and blue marbles at random (probably would need a quantum computer) and  it stops once it generates a red marble and it has an infinite amount of time to do so. Is it possible that it never generates a red marble? And you have infinite tries to get it to run forever.

[Lotus]

Never? That probability is zero. Not close to zero, but actually and truly zero. For an arbitrary yet not infinite length of time? Yes, that's possible. It won't be zero, but it'll be damn close.

[SpaceNugget]

You don't need a quantum computer to generate a random number.

 

The rest of your question was answered by the guy above me.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, WaxyMaxy said:

You don't need a quantum computer to generate a random number.

 

The rest of your question was answered by the guy above me.

you do for it to be truly random there are random generators with today's computers but they just run an algorithm that makes it hard to find connection between what it generates but there is still a connection and if you find that connection for can perfectly predict what it generates next making it not really random

[laminutederire]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

Lets say you made a program that generates red, green and blue marbles at random (probably would need a quantum computer) and  it stops once it generates a red marble and it has an infinite amount of time to do so. Is it possible that it never generates a red marble?

If you use a computer, it isn't random so it depends if a red marble is in the period of the random draw.

If you want a mathematical answer, yes it is possible.

You have to understand that it isn't because an event has a probability of 0 that it isn't possible. When such an event is possible but has a probability of 0, you know that for an infinite amount of draw, you would have to have one at the end. However the infinity being what it is,  you can perfectly draw everything but red ones, for an arbitrary great number of draws.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

If you use a computer, it isn't random so it depends if a red marble is in the period of the random draw.

If you want a mathematical answer, yes it is possible.

You have to understand that it isn't because an event has a probability of 0 that it isn't possible. When such an event is possible but has a probability of 0, you know that for an infinite amount of draw, you would have to have one at the end. However the infinity being what it is,  you can perfectly draw everything but red ones, for an arbitrary great number of draws.

that why i specified quantum computer which from what we know can do things at random. but im thinking lets say you have infinite tries to get the program to run forever then wouldn't there be one time it just goes on forever and doesn't stop

[laminutederire]

4 minutes ago, WaxyMaxy said:

You don't need a quantum computer to generate a random number.

 

The rest of your question was answered by the guy above me.

What @spartaman64 and the fact that the random generation is periodic, you won't have something random once you know the the periodic sequence.

We can be happy with those because the better periods have the order of magnitude of 10^(6000) which is gigantic.

[laminutederire]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

that why i specified quantum computer which from what we know can do things at random. but im thinking lets say you have infinite tries to get the program to run forever then wouldn't there be one time it just goes on forever and doesn't stop

No, it has to draw a red one at some point. But that's only for a real infinite number of draws. So you experiment isn't good to understand the maths behind it.

[SpaceNugget]

1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

What @spartaman64 and the fact that the random generation is periodic, you won't have something random once you know the the periodic sequence.

We can be happy with those because the better periods have the order of magnitude of 10^(6000) which is gigantic.

 

7 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

you do for it to be truly random there are random generators with today's computers but they just run an algorithm that makes it hard to find connection between what it generates but there is still a connection and if you find that connection for can perfectly predict what it generates next making it not really random

 

I know what I am talking about. You can get random numbers without a quantum computer.

[spartaman64]

4 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

No, it has to draw a red one at some point. But that's only for a real infinite number of draws. So you experiment isn't good to understand the maths behind it.

why does it have to draw a red one

[laminutederire]

4 minutes ago, WaxyMaxy said:

 

 

I know what I am talking about. You can get random numbers without a quantum computer.

How?

[rhyseyness]

3 minutes ago, WaxyMaxy said:

 

 

I know what I am talking about. You can get random numbers without a quantum computer.

3. There's a random number I just generated.

A computer cannot generate a random number.

Current computers do not do random.

Everything they do is calculated.

[SpaceNugget]

1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

How?

applications that are sensitive to true randomness simply use a sensor to sample naturally occurring random process. Background radiation in the sky is a common source, or particle detectors.

[spartaman64]

3 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

3. There's a random number I just generated.

A computer cannot generate a random number.

Current computers do not do random.

Everything they do is calculated.

can we even generate random numbers? if you tell a person to list off numbers at random will the numbers he say be truly random or can you find a connection and predict every number he is going to say

[laminutederire]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

why does it have to draw a red one

Because the probability it doesn't do it tend to 0. But again it's because you want everything to be infinite. If you want it to be infinite, you can't see the result of it all because if you can see the result, you would still have to draw more for it to be infinite

[SpaceNugget]

4 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

3. There's a random number I just generated.

A computer cannot generate a random number.

Current computers do not do random.

Everything they do is calculated.

so a computer decided what text made up your comment? or is it possible that computers take input from the world and the world has the capability to have random inputs.

[Nuluvius]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

can we even generate random numbers? if you tell a person to list off numbers at random will the numbers he say be truly random or can you find a connection and predict every number he is going to say

If the numbers originated from a human then there will be a pattern.

[laminutederire]

2 minutes ago, WaxyMaxy said:

applications that are sensitive to true randomness simply use a sensor to sample naturally occurring random process. Background radiation in the sky is a common source, or particle detectors.

Are those process really random?

[laminutederire]

4 minutes ago, WaxyMaxy said:

applications that are sensitive to true randomness simply use a sensor to sample naturally occurring random process. Background radiation in the sky is a common source, or particle detectors.

Are those process really random?

Edit sorry for the double posting, it wasn't intentional.

[Nuluvius]

Just now, laminutederire said:

Are those process really random?

Edit sorry for the double posting, it wasn't intentional.

Are we even capable of comprehending what 'random' really means? I liken it to the differing sizes of infinity - we are no better equipt to deal with comprehending that.

[spartaman64]

6 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Because the probability it doesn't do it tend to 0. But again it's because you want everything to be infinite. If you want it to be infinite, you can't see the result of it all because if you can see the result, you would still have to draw more for it to be infinite

lets say the universe doesnt have an end and you make an archive of everything that ever happened in the universe. every particle movement, every transfer of energy, and even every quantum occurrence. and then you reset the universe what is the probability that you get the same universe with everything happening exactly the same? pretty much zero in fact if you take into account the universe lasting forever you would probably say it is zero but we know its not zero because it already happened once 

[maulemall]

31 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

Lets say you made a program that generates red, green and blue marbles at random (probably would need a quantum computer) and  it stops once it generates a red marble and it has an infinite amount of time to do so. Is it possible that it never generates a red marble? And you have infinite tries to get it to run forever.

the odds will be 1 in however many marbles you have at each individual chance it draws one.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, maulemall said:

the odds will be 1 in however many marbles you have at each individual chance it draws one.

so 1/ ∞  and that should be in all rights impossible but is it

[maulemall]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

lets say the universe doesnt have an end and you make an archive of everything that ever happened in the universe. every particle movement, every transfer of energy, and even every quantum occurrence. and then you reset the universe what is the probability that you get the same universe with everything happening exactly the same? pretty much zero but we know its not zero because it already happened once 

everything ends. Even if it is because we end.

[SpaceNugget]

17 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

why does it have to draw a red one

because