EU accuses Google of Android abuse

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

I kind of understand if you're forced to use the apps, can't uninstall them or install other options - but as it is, I'm pretty sure you can uninstall the Google Apps that are bundled with the phone. 

You can't uninstall all of them. I mean, on some devices you can (like on my Sony tablet) but on others you can't (like my LG G4). That's because Sony has negotiated an exception with Google. This lawsuit has been talked about since 2014 (at least), and back then Google required phone manufacturers to have about 20 Google apps preinstalled.

[Nineshadow]

18 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Its strange surely if a company creates their own OS they can bundle their own software with it

Its a really strange issue

Microsoft and windows media player? Remember? Europe has done it before.

[ShadowCaptain]

2 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

Microsoft and windows media player? Remember? Europe has done it before.

 

Its still a dumb issue, assuming no "foul play" if an OS manufacturer wants to include useful software for free that is useful and beneficial to the end user then why should they be prevented?

 

Google have their own OS which is chrome..how does that stand?

 

its such a confusing concept 

[Nineshadow]

24 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

 

Its still a dumb issue, assuming no "foul play" if an OS manufacturer wants to include useful software for free that is useful and beneficial to the end user then why should they be prevented?

 

Google have their own OS which is chrome..how does that stand?

 

its such a confusing concept 

It is indeed a strange situation. On the one hand, AOSP does not have any google apps or services pre-installed, so what is wrong with Android itself? Any manufacturer is free to use AOSP (implicitly without Google's apps), and any user can flash gapps if he wants to (and if he knows how to do it). A friend of mine bought a Chinese phone a few months ago and, to his surprise, it didn't come with Play Store, rather some weird Chinese app store, without any English language option. He really liked the phone (especially for the price), but he couldn't live without the Play Store, and since there was no return policy, he was ready to buy another smartphone, less powerful and at a higher price, this time from a well-known brand. I helped him out and flashed gapps on his phone.

 

And yes, exactly. How does every other OS or software service stand? Why shouldn't I sue Apple for having such a closed ecosystem and because they have their own apps preinstalled? It's not like I want to or had any reason of doing so; in the end, it's Apple's OS and they do what they want to do with it.

 

Yes, it is a very weird situation. I think the issue here is

[elfensky]

18 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Can someone inform me if the EU has done anything fucking good in the entirety of its existence? Anything?

Well, the open borders make holidays easy...

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, ElfenSky said:

Well, the open borders

Yes and I hear that's going absolutely swimmingly.

 

[Garfieldus]

2 hours ago, Nineshadow said:

It is indeed a strange situation. On the one hand, AOSP does not have any google apps or services pre-installed, so what is wrong with Android itself? Any manufacturer is free to use AOSP (implicitly without Google's apps), and any user can flash gapps if he wants to (and if he knows how to do it). A friend of mine bought a Chinese phone a few months ago and, to his surprise, it didn't come with Play Store, rather some weird Chinese app store, without any English language option. He really liked the phone (especially for the price), but he couldn't live without the Play Store, and since there was no return policy, he was ready to buy another smartphone, less powerful and at a higher price, this time from a well-known brand. I helped him out and flashed gapps on his phone.

 

And yes, exactly. How does every other OS or software service stand? Why shouldn't I sue Apple for having such a closed ecosystem and because they have their own apps preinstalled? It's not like I want to or had any reason of doing so; in the end, it's Apple's OS and they do what they want to do with it.

 

Yes, it is a very weird situation. I think the issue here is

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/antitrust/overview_en.html

 

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/antitrust/legislation/legislation.html

 

We had to study this in business law classes and if you were to take time to read them you'd realize that these are fairly in depth laws to guard consumer interest. While it may sounds stupid in cases where Google may be punished for using it's own apps in their own software but in the view of the law - it's a violation therefore action has to be taken. You have to remember that these laws are to protect consumers in a wide field of products and services therefore if they choose to make exceptions for software than suddenly manufacturers will want one as well. In the end you'll end up with laws that have little to no power due to all exceptions.

 

TL:DR These laws are here to protect consumer/business and they do work fairly well in EU. It doesn't matter what makes sense or not in this specific case, these laws protect consumers and businesses alike in a wide range of fields including software.

 

 

[porina]

http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2016/04/google-android-statement-of-objections-europe-vestager/

 

Arstechnica on same topic.

[Arty]

21 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

It would be worse if Microsoft released an OS with NO browser

they should just resale it with chrome. 

[ShadowCaptain]

49 minutes ago, Arty said:

they should just resale it with chrome. 

Just the same situation as before, that doenst fix anything

[cesrai]

Manufacturers have the choice to use Google free Android version so I don't see the problem. You want Google apps you will have to use there little bit more closed version of Android.

[RazrLeaf]

19 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The end result would be that you would have the same or fewer pre-installed apps. So instead of having both Samsung's browser and Chrome, you would just have Samsung's browser for example. Chrome is only there because Google forces Samsung to include it.

I use Chrome, so I may be biased. I would like to be able to uninstall Samsung's browser.  I honestly wouldn't mind pre-installed apps or programs if we were allowed to uninstall whichever ones we wished (e.g. the Xbox App on Windows 10 is the most useless thing ever if you don't have an Xbox...).

[Murdoch]

On 20/04/2016 at 3:30 PM, shdowhunt60 said:

Can someone inform me if the EU has done anything fucking good in the entirety of its existence? Anything?

If we are just counting the "EU" and not the things that preceded it, that largely turned Europe from a continent that had ravaged itself with war, to a collection of countries that cooperate and trade with each other in peace. Then I guess, the Working Time Directive, is probably the piece of legislation I like the most.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive

 

[Belgarathian]

12 hours ago, LAwLz said:

You can't uninstall all of them. I mean, on some devices you can (like on my Sony tablet) but on others you can't (like my LG G4). That's because Sony has negotiated an exception with Google. This lawsuit has been talked about since 2014 (at least), and back then Google required phone manufacturers to have about 20 Google apps preinstalled.

Thanks for clearing that up - I guess Apple will be next on the chopping block for iOS. They'll be claiming that you can't delete the contacts app and replace with a third party 

 

I think the best part about this will be that there will be a bunch of average Joe users that love their phones and have no idea how to operate them that accidentally delete something important and then can't use their phone (imagine deleting contact, camera, gallery)

[LAwLz]

3 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

Thanks for clearing that up - I guess Apple will be next on the chopping block for iOS. They'll be claiming that you can't delete the contacts app and replace with a third party 

 

I think the best part about this will be that there will be a bunch of average Joe users that love their phones and have no idea how to operate them that accidentally delete something important and then can't use their phone (imagine deleting contact, camera, gallery)

According to the Ars article (or rather, the comments in it) this lawsuit might also be related to Google not allowing manufacturers to ship devices with Android forks if they want to use gapps.

If that's true, then it basically means that Samsung can't make a phone running let's say Cyanogenmod or Amazon's FireOS. If they do then Google will not allow them to ship phones with Google apps (like the Play Store). It's an all or nothing deal. Either all your Android phones comply with Google's demands, or you won't get any help from Google (and by help I mean things like access to the Play Store).

 

That's a really bad thing as well which is clearly meant to just hurt competition. Not benefit consumers.

 

 

I think iOS is pretty safe (sadly), because they don't have that much marketshare. They make a ton of money, but not a ton of customers.

[porina]

4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That's a really bad thing as well which is clearly meant to just hurt competition. Not benefit consumers.

I think Google's argument will be that allowing Android forks will hurt the ecosystem more, but that is likely an over-simplification on my part. This is not a simple straightforward case.

[Belgarathian]

21 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I think iOS is pretty safe (sadly), because they don't have that much marketshare. They make a ton of money, but not a ton of customers.

iOS is fine - it'll never be released to anything other than an Apple product to begin with and the only core apps that you can't delete are the important ones like contacts, camera, etc. 

[patrick3027]

Good thing. Forcing GApps onto consumers is almost as bad as M$ forcing Internet Explorer and Edge onto consumers.