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Is DX12 really only beneficial to AMD 3XX/Fury cards and does nothing for Nvidia's Maxwell? Do Current Generation Cards benefit from DX12?

kenjigreat
By kenjigreat
in Graphics Cards
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Just now, Trav_X said:

Alright thanks :) I'm gonna be getting a card around the time when the two new cards from each company come out, and I'm not gonna fanboy to NVIDIA, I'll be looking for the best card for my needs and my budget. 

Good, as it should be.

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6 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

My friends have had AMD cards, and they say that there are constant problems. No display, games crashing, compatibility errors, and just general problems with the driver application and just general use experience. I have never had problems with my NVIDIA card, always had good drivers, no BSODs, and just generally nothing has happened bad, even with constant heavy use oftenly. My friends IRL just say that they have experienced many troubles with AMD cards, and they both recently got NVIDIA cards late late late last year.

 

 

1 minute ago, 167776_1454180910 said:

It's true that many games, even latest games, have had/have their own share of problems on AMD cards, but NVidia cards work fine.

One example was Gears of Wars Ultimate Edition's absolutely poor performance and Just Cause 3's stuttering/screen tear.

While GoW was fixed, the JC3 still has those annoying problems. They do not affect performance, but make the game annoying to play at some places.

Excluding some notorious Gameworks titles. There are some games that need AMD Fixes but run perfectly fine on Nvidia Hardware.

 

Although, honestly the more I read about Nvidia's business practices the more I want to get an AMD card. I'm pretty sure DX12 Crossfire/SLI Mixing will get shutdown by Nvidia.

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3 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

Thought that was Gameworks?

on Gears of War, the graphical glitching was caused by HBAO+, but other problems were non-GameWorks related and instead was just bad drivers and game code.

 

JC3, it's just something in the game/AMD drivers/cards causing it.

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1 minute ago, kenjigreat said:

 

Excluding some notorious Gameworks titles. There are some games that need AMD Fixes but run perfectly fine on Nvidia Hardware.

 

Although, honestly the more I read about Nvidia's business practices the more I want to get an AMD card. I'm pretty sure DX12 Crossfire/SLI Mixing will get shutdown by Nvidia.

What do you mean business practices? :o sounds intriguing

 

agreed, I don't think NVIDIA would stand for card mixing. 

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Just now, 167776_1454180910 said:

on Gears of War, the graphical glitching was caused by HBAO, but other problems were non-GameWorks related and instead was just bad drivers and game code.

 

JC3, it's just something in the game/AMD drivers/cards causing it.

For JC3, given how it´s one of the few that are having issues, going to guess more over however the game´s coded.

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Just now, 167776_1454180910 said:

on Gears of War, the graphical glitching was caused by HBAO, but other problems were non-GameWorks related and instead was just bad drivers and game code.

 

JC3, it's just something in the game/AMD drivers/cards causing it.

That and driving tessellation way up just to screw with AMD. I own a 2 Nvidia cards at the moment and I'm happy with the performance but the company is so -_-.

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4 minutes ago, kenjigreat said:

That and driving tessellation way up just to screw with AMD. I own a 2 Nvidia cards at the moment and I'm happy with the performance but the company is so -_-.

Oh yeah, there was an over-excessive tessellation too in GoW. Which simply drove the performance to muds.

 

 

Also more on the topic:

Maxwell's main selling point has been the whole performance/watt where it gives nearly as good or better performance than respective AMD card, for lower power consumption.

Which is why I pre-ordered 970 back in 2014..

My 550W PSU just wouldn't be able to handle and AMD FX-8350 AND R9 390/R9 390x together.

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1 minute ago, Trav_X said:

What do you mean business practices? :o sounds intriguing

 

agreed, I don't think NVIDIA would stand for card mixing. 

Don´t remember which game, but the option to turn off gameworks was labeled as something else. This caused AMD users to have noticeably poorer performance than Nvidia users. While no direct evidence was found linking Nvidia to this, I wouldn´t put it past them.

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1 minute ago, Trav_X said:

What do you mean business practices? :o sounds intriguing

 

agreed, I don't think NVIDIA would stand for card mixing. 

While AMD has been great on the Open-source front. Nvidia has been less than completely honest.

 

If you want AMD to run worse. 

Make sure to add tons of Tessellation into the game. It's why the Witcher 3 with Hairworks runs like crap on AMD until you turn down the Tessellation.

 

 

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1 minute ago, 167776_1454180910 said:

Oh yeah, there was an over-excessive tessellation too in GoW. Which simply drove the performance to muds.

Which is odd, since the consoles have AMD apus, and THEY RUN FLIPPEN FINE.

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Just now, Starelementpoke said:

Don´t remember which game, but the option to turn off gameworks was labeled as something else. This caused AMD users to have noticeably poorer performance than Nvidia users. While no direct evidence was found linking Nvidia to this, I wouldn´t put it past them.

Damn :o sounds controversial and paradigm shifting. I agree tho, probably wouldn't put it past them thinking they could get away with some discrete shenanigans like that. 

 

Hopefully Polaris can blow us out of the water, I'm actually kinda hoping AMD's cards this next time around can crush existing cards, and maybe even some pascal cards.

MSI GE72 Apache Pro-242 - (5700HQ : 970M : 16gb RAM : 17.3" : Win10 : 1TB HDD : Razer Anansi : Some mouse) - hooked up to a 34UM58-P (WFHD) in dual screen

 

iPad Air 2 (for school)

iPhone 6

Xbox One Forza 6 Limited Edition Blue

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DX12 is so new for most games it is just a slap of DX12 name on top of DX11. I would wait for devs to really use it by building the game from the ground up with it. Also Vulkan master race

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

Which is odd, since the consoles have AMD apus, and THEY RUN FLIPPEN FINE.

They don't have the same settings as PC, that's why.

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2 minutes ago, kenjigreat said:

While AMD has been great on the Open-source front. Nvidia has been less than completely honest.

 

If you want AMD to run worse. 

Make sure to add tons of Tessellation into the game. It's why the Witcher 3 with Hairworks runs like crap on AMD until you turn down the Tessellation.

 

 

Is this also something that DX12 could maybe change? Lol, I don't know much about software, I'm more of a hardware guy. Could DX12 change some of the things that Seperate and segregate NVIDIA and AMD in games (in terms of raw performance)?

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2 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

DX12 is so new for most games it is just a slap of DX12 name on top of DX11. I would wait for devs to really use it by building the game from the ground up with it. Also Vulkan master race

Ha true. Vulkan is exciting, and it seems to be good in the works lol :D can't wait

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3 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

Is this also something that DX12 could maybe change? Lol, I don't know much about software, I'm more of a hardware guy. Could DX12 change some of the things that Seperate and segregate NVIDIA and AMD in games (in terms of raw performance)?

Yes, the Multi-GPU adapter technology.

Multi-GPU adapter lets you run both AMD and NVidia card simultaneously, getting the good of both.

But it will be up to the game devs to enable it.

 

And of course, this means that you have to run a multi-gpu config.

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1 minute ago, 167776_1454180910 said:

Yes, the Multi-GPU adapter technology.

Multi-GPU adapter let's you run both AMD and NVidia card simultaneously, getting the good of both.

But it will be up to the game devs to enable it.

 

And of course, this means that you have to run a multi-gpu config.

This also requires Nvidia to allow this.

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Just now, Starelementpoke said:

This also requires Nvidia to allow this.

To my understanding, they were one of the companies behind making that tech. Meaning it's more of a matter of AMD allowing it.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, 167776_1454180910 said:

Yes, the Multi-GPU adapter technology.

Multi-GPU adapter let's you run both AMD and NVidia card simultaneously, getting the good of both.

But it will be up to the game devs to enable it.

 

And of course, this means that you have to run a multi-gpu config.

1080Ti + 490X  :x 

Edited by Godlygamer23
Clean up.

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Moved to Graphics Cards.

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

1080Ti + 490X :x 

 

Pretty much, also as it was demoed last year in one Tech conference, it was shown that having the AMD card (Fury X + 980Ti at that time) as dominant (top) gpu, gave higher performance increase than having the NVidia as dominant one. This could be because of AMD's higher memory bandwidth.

Edited by Godlygamer23
Clean up.
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Posted (edited)
  • Author
7 minutes ago, 167776_1454180910 said:

Yes, the Multi-GPU adapter technology.

Multi-GPU adapter lets you run both AMD and NVidia card simultaneously, getting the good of both.

But it will be up to the game devs to enable it.

 

And of course, this means that you have to run a multi-gpu config.

 

6 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

This also requires Nvidia to allow this.

I'm done with SLI or Multi GPU setups. It's half the reason I want to switch from a full tower to a ITX mini case.

 

5 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

1080Ti + 490X :x 

SLI support rarely happens on Day 1. Sometimes it never happens or takes forever. You almost never get perfect scaling. Don't get me wrong when it works I love it but it's way too much hassle and praying that people cared enough to support it . Unless suddenly every developer takes SLI seriously I won't be investing in a SLI Setup again.

Edited by Godlygamer23
Clean up.
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27 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

My friends have had AMD cards, and they say that there are constant problems. No display, games crashing, compatibility errors, and just general problems with the driver application and just general use experience. I have never had problems with my NVIDIA card, always had good drivers, no BSODs, and just generally nothing has happened bad, even with constant heavy use oftenly. My friends IRL just say that they have experienced many troubles with AMD cards, and they both recently got NVIDIA cards late late late last year.

I have literally had the same issues with NVIDIA cards... And next to none with AMD.
The only issue I ever had with AMD drivers, was that the newer drivers were incompatible with my ancient hardware(x800 XL AGP) at the time(7+ years ago), even though they were recommending the latest driver for that card regardless. Rolling back to a previous version of the driver fixed it all... Same thing with NVIDIA happened multiple times where the newest drivers caused issue and the older ones do not.

 

The thing with drivers crashing, no display, etc... is often because the card itself or another component like RAM, is faulty, but people like blaming the drivers just because "well the PC didn't crash outright, so surely it's not hardware related", making it harder to actually diagnose, especially if you don't have the proper tools and knowledge to do so.

For 5 years, I've used a HD5870 8+ hours a day, without a SINGLE issue related to the GPU itself. I did have issues where the display drivers were crashing and all at first, but that was a RAM issue, which affected the display driver (yup, that's right, bad ram can cause display drivers to crash). Once that was fixed, no more issue, at all. I now have a 7970, haven't had a single issue with it so far either.

 

 

tl;dr : GPU issues isn't always related to drivers, or even GPU. Haven't had much issues with AMD GPU/drivers. Had about as much trouble with NVIDIA.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700x / GPU: Asus Radeon RX 6750XT OC 12GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB DDR4-3200
MOBO: MSI B450m Gaming Plus / NVME: Corsair MP510 240GB / Case: TT Core v21 / PSU: Seasonic 750W / OS: Win 10 Pro

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Posted

DX12 is useless to basically everyone right now. Idc if there's improvement in Hitman because that game is a broken failure. DX12 doesn't work half the time. And ROTR shows worse performance with DX12

Current PC: Origin Millennium- i7 5820K @4.0GHz | GTX 980Ti SLI | X99 Deluxe 

 

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