Alright, help me decide guys.

[Maxxtraxx]

6 minutes ago, Noirgheos said:

These guys are arguing frametime. Honestly, I don't care if it's everywhere as long as I don't see a shit ton of stutters. What's your experience with stutter? Witcher 3? Fallout 4? 

poor frametime = microstutter

microstutter = poor frametime

finkle = einhorn

[i_build_nanosuits]

2 minutes ago, Maxxtraxx said:

poor frametime = microstutter

microstutter = poor frametime

finkle = einhorn

a good read for the OP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering

 

and this too:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-New-Graphics-Performance-Metric

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-Dissected-Full-Details-Capture-based-Graphics-Performance-Testin

[Morgan MLGman]

1 minute ago, Noirgheos said:

These guys are arguing frametime. Honestly, I don't care if it's everywhere as long as I don't see a shit ton of stutters. What's your experience with stutter? Witcher 3? Fallout 4? 

Haven't played Fallout, but I played through TW3 three times, once on a GTX 660, once on a GTX 970 and once on R9 290X.
The best experience was on a 290X but it might be due to the game itself being patched multiple times in the time before those walkthroughs.
 

8 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

it's not about AVERAGE framerates as you can see in this thread for most people MINIMUM FPS and FRAME-TIME variances are more important that a few more peak FPS here and there...it's about a good consistent butter smooth gaming experience.

Do you think he'd get that much better experience? Remember that the extreme majority of people wants to get the best for their money (up to a point because at some price point and budgets it's not about that anymore) and I'm 100% positive he could get by with a 290X for a few months until new cards come out ;-;

[Noirgheos]

5 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

have you hit those guys?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-computer-components/ville-de-montreal/nvidia-gtx-980ti-980-970/1139428243?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

and this one has a forum they sell and trade graphics cards.. (Quebec Hardware Overclock) **Can accept trade if you want upgrade

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-composants-de-systeme/laval-rive-nord/open-box-gtx-980-4gb-strix-oc/1132848142?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

The first one says no one buys AMD (lol).

 

The second one never responded after a while... I'm not kidding mine I'm scared I've tried everyone in Montreal.

[Maxxtraxx]

13 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

ohh trust me a GTX 980ti hooked to a Gsync monitor is 100% micro-stutter free...i'm super susceptible to micro-stuttering (been doing PC gaming for over 20 years now) and with that it's entirely gone unless you render at settings that are too high for a 980ti which does not happen often at 1440p.

My games are liquid smooth across the board.

You're right... Microstutter absolutely, Gsync/Freesync will

you're right also so long as you're pushing proper frame rates

 

You know your gsync... i love it... i wish i had it... but there is one area(specifically in fallout 4 recently It won't help some CPU induced lag however that would bottleneck and drop the framerate below the gsync minimum)

[i_build_nanosuits]

Just now, Morgan MLGman said:

Do you think he'd get that much better experience? Remember that the extreme majority of people wants to get the best for their money (up to a point because at some price point and budgets it's not about that anymore) and I'm 100% positive he could get by with a 290X for a few months until new cards come out ;-;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering

Micro stuttering is a term used in computing to describe a quality defect that manifests as irregular delays between frames rendered by the GPU(s), causing the instantaneous frame rate of the longest delay to be significantly lower than the frame rate reported by benchmarking applications, such as 3DMark, as they usually calculate the average frame rate over a longer time interval. In lower frame rates^{[note 1]} when this effect may be apparent the moving video appears to stutter, resulting in a degraded gameplay experience in the case of a video game, even though the frame rate seems high enough^{[note 2]} to provide a smooth experience.

 

so...my answer to your question is YES, absolutely he would.

[Morgan MLGman]

1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering

Micro stuttering is a term used in computing to describe a quality defect that manifests as irregular delays between frames rendered by the GPU(s), causing the instantaneous frame rate of the longest delay to be significantly lower than the frame rate reported by benchmarking applications, such as 3DMark, as they usually calculate the average frame rate over a longer time interval. In lower frame rates^{[note 1]} when this effect may be apparent the moving video appears to stutter, resulting in a degraded gameplay experience in the case of a video game, even though the frame rate seems high enough^{[note 2]} to provide a smooth experience.

 

so...my answer to your question is YES, absolutely he would.

But why do you assume that a GTX 980 would be that much better in that field? Enough to justify the difference in money?

[Maxxtraxx]

3 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Haven't played Fallout, but I played through TW3 three times, once on a GTX 660, once on a GTX 970 and once on R9 290X.
The best experience was on a 290X but it might be due to the game itself being patched multiple times in the time before those walkthroughs.
 

Do you think he'd get that much better experience? Remember that the extreme majority of people wants to get the best for their money (up to a point because at some price point and budgets it's not about that anymore) and I'm 100% positive he could get by with a 290X for a few months until new cards come out ;-;

He can get by with a Fury as well, which should perform better than a 290x for microstutter... both are based off of GCN only fury is more powerful has even greater memory bandwith for the same memory capactiy.

[i_build_nanosuits]

3 minutes ago, Maxxtraxx said:

You're right... Microstutter absolutely, Gsync/Freesync will

you're right also so long as you're pushing proper frame rates

 

You know your gsync... i love it... i wish i had it... but there is one area(specifically in fallout 4 recently It won't help some CPU induced lag however that would bottleneck and drop the framerate below the gsync minimum)

micro-stuttering in a CPU bound scenario is a completely different topic...the op in his signature has an overclocked to 4.4ghz core i7-4790K so i basically ruled that out...but yeah if you're CPU limited then you will see spikes...sure

But AGAIN, nvidia drivers much more CPU efficient with much less overhead lead to much less CPU bound scenarios in modern AAA titles.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Just now, Morgan MLGman said:

But why do you assume that a GTX 980 would be that much better in that field? Enough to justify the difference in money?

watching many video reviews and reading through reviews from many outlets (namely digital foundry and pc perspective) who does FCAT or other frame-rating tests.

[Maxxtraxx]

8 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

a good read for the OP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering

 

and this too:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-New-Graphics-Performance-Metric

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-Dissected-Full-Details-Capture-based-Graphics-Performance-Testin

Exactly! Poor frametime = microstutter

finkle =  einhorn

[Morgan MLGman]

1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

watching many video reviews and reading through reviews from many outlets (namely digital foundry and pc perspective) who does FCAT or other frame-rating tests.

It might be better, you didn't answer the question though, would it be worth it in terms of price, I didn't see any more stuttering with my 290X than with my 970 than I already had (all I all, I've got an 8350 so it has to stutter sometimes) so I'm just comparing both cards

[grayperview]

Like i say i get no stuttering in 99% of my games, there is always the exception though...they tend to be unreal engine 3 titles.

 

What OS are you running? I'm running 10 

 

it could be a software configuration causing the stutters.. Hard to say without seeing it though.

 

I suppose you have run this?

 

In command as admin. this cleared up stutters for me on my old crossfire config when i had issues.

 

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

bcdedit /set useplatformclock true

 

disabling or enabling HPET can fix stutter too

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Precision_Event_Timer

 

my old z77 board preferred HPET off, resulting in no stutter and reduced latency.

[i_build_nanosuits]

4 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

It might be better, you didn't answer the question though, would it be worth it in terms of price, I didn't see any more stuttering with my 290X than with my 970 than I already had (all I all, I've got an 8350 so it has to stutter sometimes) so I'm just comparing both cards

the level at which you are susceptible to frame-time variances (micro-stuttering or hitching or what ever you want to call it) will depend greatly from person to person (like for the same reason one might find 30FPS completely playable and smooth and for me personally it's hell), maybe you just don't notice them...maybe if you would play on my system for a few minutes you would be blown away and you would understand instantly what i mean.

 

As to be worth it? it can be like i said if he can find a trade...he own a GPU that is worth 700$ up here in canada...a GTX 980 is worth 650$...i'm sure somebody somewhere would be willing to trade and it would benefit him.

[Maxxtraxx]

1 minute ago, Morgan MLGman said:

It might be better, you didn't answer the question though, would it be worth it in terms of price, I didn't see any more stuttering with my 290X than with my 970 than I already had (all I all, I've got an 8350 so it has to stutter sometimes) so I'm just comparing both cards

none of this is worth it in terms of price... a fury is better than a 290x, its better than a 980 trading for either would be a downgrade... but if he wants above all other things a smooth experience with as little microstutter as possible then a 980 may be the way to go.

[Noirgheos]

2 minutes ago, super_skank said:

Like i say i get no stuttering in 99% of my games, there is always the exception though...they tend to be unreal engine 3 titles.

 

What OS are you running? I'm running 10 

 

it could be a software configuration causing the stutters.. Hard to say without seeing it though.

 

I suppose you have run this?

 

In command as admin. this cleared up stutters for me on my old crossfire config when i had issues.

 

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

bcdedit /set useplatformclock true

 

disabling or enabling HPET can fix stutter too

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Precision_Event_Timer

 

my old z77 board preferred HPET off, resulting in no stutter and reduced latency.

Do I disable it in the BIOS?

[grayperview]

ye

Just now, Noirgheos said:

Do I disable it in the BIOS?

yeah, mate its in power management, normally....some boards don't give you the option (my new one) though. 

[Noirgheos]

3 minutes ago, super_skank said:

ye

yeah, mate its in power management, normally....some boards don't give you the option (my new one) though. 

Can't find HPET in my Maximus VII Hero. Any other ideas?

[Morgan MLGman]

8 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

the level at which you are susceptible to frame-time variances (micro-stuttering or hitching or what ever you want to call it) will depend greatly from person to person, maybe you just don,t notice them...maybe if you would play on my system for a few minutes you would be blown away and you would understand instantly what i mean.

 

As to be worth it? it can be like i said if he can find a trade...he own a GPU that is worth 700$ up here in canada...a GTX 980 is worth 650$...i'm sure somebody somewhere would be willing to trade and it would benefit him.

That is actually very true, I might not be noticing it, all I can give is my personal experience about the cards because I've owned them and I've played on them, but that is a subjective matter... I'm actually curious how different my experience would be on your dope G-Sync monitor setup

 

Damn, I wouldn't switch a Fury for a 980, like ever in a 1:1 trade, am I the only one that thinks that a GTX 980 would be a MUCH better card and MUCH more worth it if it had more than 4GB of VRAM? With Fury it's a little different because it's HBM, but 4GB of GDDR5 on a 650$ CAD card is a little underwhelming imo

EDIT: I guess a FreeSync monitor would solve the issues OP is having, it's significantly cheaper than a G-Sync one so maybe keep the Fury and gather some money for a monitor like that would be the best?

[grayperview]

1 minute ago, Noirgheos said:

Can't find HPET in my Maximus VII Hero. Any other ideas?

out of curiosity im looking into myself, it could be disabled my default if it's not there.

 

Radeon pro, with triple buffering and vsync on is your friend with bethesda games i found.

[i_build_nanosuits]

6 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

That is actually very true, I might not be noticing it, all I can give is my personal experience about the cards because I've owned them and I've played on them, but that is a subjective matter... I'm actually curious how different my experience would be on your dope G-Sync monitor setup

 

Damn, I wouldn't switch a Fury for a 980, like ever in a 1:1 trade, am I the only one that thinks that a GTX 980 would be a MUCH better card and MUCH more worth it if it had more than 4GB of VRAM? With Fury it's a little different because it's HBM, but 4GB of GDDR5 on a 650$ CAD card is a little underwhelming imo

4GB is 4GB...no matter how fast it is, if you squeeze textures that are too big to fit in that memory then the GPU will have to resource from the system memory (RAM) and this will be a massive bottleneck because the read speed and re-stocking rate of the system memory is FAR FAR slower than any graphics memory you found on modern graphics cards...so it makes no difference how fast it is if you are running out of VRAM in a game it will stutter and the game will take micro-pauses all the time and it will be a nightmare real fast. but yeah 6GB GTX 980 would be amazing but since it's a 256bit memory bus the options are 2gb, 4gb, 8gb and 16gb and we all know nvidia is not generous enough to put 8GB of memory on a GTX 980 unfortunately...but 4GB is plenty for just about any game really....most games scale with what you have when you see your VRAM usage quite often it's just allocated memory ''just in case'' but the game will run exactly the same even if you have less memory...to encounter a point at which like i said the GPU pull data from system memory you have to be in serious trouble (seriously VRAM starved) and it's not happening....it was not even happening on my 3GB GTX 780 @ 1440p.

 

And personally, i would pick a GTX 980 over an R9 Fury any day of the week...Gsync or not, no questions asked.

[Morgan MLGman]

5 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

4GB is 4GB...no matter how fast it is, if you squeeze textures that are too big to fit in that memory then the GPU will have to ressource from the system memory (RAM) ad this will be a massive bottleneck because the read speed and re-stocking rate of the system memory is FAR FAR slower than any graphics memory you found on modern graphics cards...so it makes no difference how fast it is if you are running out of VRAM in a game it will stutter and the game will take micro-pauses all the time and it will be a nighmare real fast. but yeah 6GB GTX 980 would be amazing but since it's a 256bit memory bus the options are 2gb, 4gb, 8gb and 16gb and we all know nvidia is not generous enough to put 8GB of memory on a GTX 980 unfortunately...but 4GB is plenty for just about any game really....most games scale with what you have when you see your VRAM usage quite often it's just allocated memory ''just in case'' but the game will run exactly the same even if you have less memory...to encounter a point at which like i said the GPU pull data from system memory you have to be in serious trouble (seriously VRAM starved)

But it seems like a Fury X with HBM basically performs the same or even sometimes better than a 980Ti @ 4K resolution in games that actually use full 6GB on a 980Ti and full 4GB on the Fury X, I've seen a chart somewhere that only when around 8GB of VRAM is necessary the HBM seems to not be enough resulting in FPS drops

For example here: at 4K and Ultra settings, Shadow Of Mordor takes A LOT of VRAM and yet performance seems the same on both cards, I can use full 4GB @ 1200p let alone 4K in that particular game


I don't know why, I don't know how it works exactly, I'm not an engineer but following some logic, considering that AMD put 8GB of VRAM on a sub 300$ card like R9 390, they wouldn't just put 4GB that's incapable of higher resolutions on cards twice as expensive that were actually meant for 4K because that would just be stupid ;-;

[Noirgheos]

I don't know what is going on, but Witcher 3 is smooth as fuck.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

1 minute ago, Noirgheos said:

I don't know what is going on, but Witcher 3 is smooth as fuck.

 

Problem solved?

[i_build_nanosuits]

2 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

But it seems like a Fury X with HBM basically performs the same or even sometimes better than a 980Ti @ 4K resolution in games that actually use full 6GB on a 980Ti and full 4GB on the Fury X, I've seen a chart somewhere that only when around 8GB of VRAM is necessary the HBM seems to not be enough resulting in FPS drops

For example here: at 4K and Ultra settings, Shadow Of Mordor takes A LOT of VRAM and yet performance seems the same on both cards, I can use full 4GB @ 1200p let alone 4K in that particular game
 

like i said, you think that shadow of mordor is using 6GB of video memory...but it's clearly not...have you played that game? i have...and the textures are nothing special even on ultra...and you can get away with 4GB easily, even at 4K. And also AMD GPU's perform well in shadow of mordor because it does make good use of the faster memory, on that you are correct.

Now, faster memory will help at higher resolution, frames go in and out the framebuffer faster, resulting in more efficient GPU computing overall, that's why HBM is good for higher resolution, but if you think 4GB on a GTX 980 is not enough, then it's not enough for the fury either.