4170 or 6100?

[MageTank]

 

 

 

I feel like this is the point where he talks about silicon lottery and that CPU clocks won't help that much, even though there are plenty of benchmarks on digital foundry to back up that stuff

That would be the point where i mention my Pentium was 100% stable at 4.6ghz under Prime95 load (Reason i did not stick with 4.75ghz, is because i didn't want to run my memory below 3200mhz) and that the performance difference over 3.3ghz was vast. It's also where i mention several people overclocking their 6100's and 6400's to 4.2+ghz on stock coolers just fine. People that I would consider amateur overclockers, making big overclocks.

 

Is Skylake overclocking perfect? No. It has its drawbacks like everything else in life that seems too good to be true. You lose C-States, you lose your iGPU, you lose proper thermal sensor monitoring, your L1 cache performance is reduced by 75%, and you lose AVX. That being said, gamers won't really care about any of this. The benefits of the overclocking far outweigh the drawbacks for gamers.

 

At stock, the i3 is enough to go toe to toe against the haswell i5's, overclocking will put it over the top without a doubt.

http://www.techspot.com/review/1087-best-value-desktop-cpu/page4.html

 

Let's not forget DigitalFoundry's tests.

 

 

There it is, at 4,4ghz (20% overclock) competing against a stock 4690k. The stock 4690k is easily considered faster than the 4460, right? That means the 4460 will be slower. Transitive property and what not. 

 

In worst case scenario, the 6100 at 4.4ghz is about 7% slower than the 4690k at stock (remember, it still boosts beyond 3.5ghz too). However, in best case scenario's, the 6100 would actually be faster than the stock 4690k in situations like MMO's or MOBA's, where single threaded performance is more important. 

 

Where is that 40% number coming from? That sounds completely exagerated unless you're benchmarking with a Titan X or two. 2-5% sounds reasonable, but not 40%, unless you're comparing a heavily CPU dependent, single threaded game, in which case, why not recommend a Pentium?

Just saw this right before posting my current post. Read above for my sources. Yes, the bench was done with a Titan X, but that was to show the difference in CPU performance. Even if someone with a 960 won't notice that big of a difference, it does not change the fact that the performance difference between the OC'd and non OC'd 6100 is 40% when completely unhindered.

[Nena Trinity]

Why not i5-4460 vs i3-6100?

[MageTank]

Why not i5-4460 vs i3-6100?

Because the 4460 is slower against a 6100 with faster ram. The only way to make the 4460 worth while is to spend the extra cash for a Z series board and overclock the memory. Problem is, without a Z series board, the 4460 is already more expensive. Adding a Z board into the mix only further inflates the price. Then you have the other problem of being able to overclock the 6100 and beat the 4460 anyways. 

 

Cheapest Haswell i5 build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($174.89 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H81M-H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($40.98 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Mushkin Essentials 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($28.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $244.86

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-15 14:01 EST-0500

 

Cheapest Z97 i5 build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($174.89 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($86.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Mushkin Essentials 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($28.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $290.87

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-15 14:01 EST-0500

 

This $290 build would lose against an overclocked 6100 with faster memory paired with it. If someone was not afraid to overclock a stock 2133 kit of ram, you could technically do this build for the i3 and be even cheaper than my last suggestion:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($115.99 @ Directron) 

Motherboard: ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($99.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($34.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $250.97

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-15 14:03 EST-0500

 

That 2400mhz memory at 1.2V could easily be taken to 3000mhz with 1.35v. That $40 saved on the faster i3 could also go towards an even faster GPU. Again, if someone is too afraid to overclock memory manually, the extra $10-$15 spent on 2800-3000mhz memory would be a worthy investment, given the evidence in my signature, DigitalFoundry's videos, and various sources around the net. 

[Nena Trinity]

 

Because the 4460 is slower against a 6100 with faster ram. The only way to make the 4460 worth while is to spend the extra cash for a Z series board and overclock the memory. Problem is, without a Z series board, the 4460 is already more expensive. Adding a Z board into the mix only further inflates the price. Then you have the other problem of being able to overclock the 6100 and beat the 4460 anyways. 

 

Cheapest Haswell i5 build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($174.89 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H81M-H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($40.98 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Mushkin Essentials 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($28.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $244.86

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-15 14:01 EST-0500

 

Cheapest Z97 i5 build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($174.89 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($86.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Mushkin Essentials 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($28.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $290.87

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-15 14:01 EST-0500

 

This $290 build would lose against an overclocked 6100 with faster memory paired with it. If someone was not afraid to overclock a stock 2133 kit of ram, you could technically do this build for the i3 and be even cheaper than my last suggestion:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($115.99 @ Directron) 

Motherboard: ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($99.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($34.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $250.97

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-15 14:03 EST-0500

 

That 2400mhz memory at 1.2V could easily be taken to 3000mhz with 1.35v. That $40 saved on the faster i3 could also go towards an even faster GPU. Again, if someone is too afraid to overclock memory manually, the extra $10-$15 spent on 2800-3000mhz memory would be a worthy investment, given the evidence in my signature, DigitalFoundry's videos, and various sources around the net. 

 

True but he can go for better RAM than 1333MHz on i5 lol

[MageTank]

True but he can go for better RAM than 1333MHz on i5 lol

Yeah, but on an H series board, he will be limited to 1600mhz (The tests done in that digital foundry video is on 1600mhz memory). In order to go beyond 1600, he will need a Z series board. I linked the cheapest Z97 board on PCPartpicker in that list. The only way a Haswell i5 will be a better option than the Core i3 6100, is if he is going to invest in a Z series board, after market cooling, and a K series CPU. If he lives near a microcenter, the 4690k is often sold for $180-$200, easily being the better deal. 

 

I just think the 4460 is not worth the money at this point, as it's an i5 that barely out performs i3's, and even then, it won't beat the 6100. 

[Nena Trinity]

Yeah, but on an H series board, he will be limited to 1600mhz (The tests done in that digital foundry video is on 1600mhz memory). In order to go beyond 1600, he will need a Z series board. I linked the cheapest Z97 board on PCPartpicker in that list. The only way a Haswell i5 will be a better option than the Core i3 6100, is if he is going to invest in a Z series board, after market cooling, and a K series CPU. If he lives near a microcenter, the 4690k is often sold for $180-$200, easily being the better deal. 

 

I just think the 4460 is not worth the money at this point, as it's an i5 that barely out performs i3's, and even then, it won't beat the 6100. 

That is also true but some actually support up to 2133MHz but they cost a bit more to...

[MageTank]

That is also true but some actually support up to 2133MHz but they cost a bit more to...

I have never seen an H series board support 2133 outside of DDR4. Can you link me to an H series Haswell (non-E) that supports more than 1600mhz?

[Nena Trinity]

I have never seen an H series board support 2133 outside of DDR4. Can you link me to an H series Haswell (non-E) that supports more than 1600mhz?

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97guardpro there are VERY few of them!

[MageTank]

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97guardpro there are VERY few of them!

I decided to look into it. Apparently, only 3 non-Z boards are listed with memory beyond 1600mhz, and all of them were made by MSI. 

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97iac

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-b85meco

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97guardpro

 

The B85 board might work, but officially on MSI's website, they do not list the OC memory support, so it could be a typo on PCPartpickers behalf. http://us.msi.com/product/motherboard/B85M-ECO.html#hero-specification

The same is said for the H97 Guard Pro: http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/support/H97-GUARD-PRO.html#support-mem

Lastly, the h97i AC also only lists support for 1600mhz memory. http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/H97I-AC.html#hero-specification

 

I do not know for certain if these boards do or not, but it does not change the fact that their prices are still more expensive than H81 boards, and still going to cost more than what its worth. 

[Nena Trinity]

I decided to look into it. Apparently, only 3 non-Z boards are listed with memory beyond 1600mhz, and all of them were made by MSI. 

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97iac

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-b85meco

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h97guardpro

 

The B85 board might work, but officially on MSI's website, they do not list the OC memory support, so it could be a typo on PCPartpickers behalf. http://us.msi.com/product/motherboard/B85M-ECO.html#hero-specification

The same is said for the H97 Guard Pro: http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/support/H97-GUARD-PRO.html#support-mem

Lastly, the h97i AC also only lists support for 1600mhz memory. http://www.msi.com/product/motherboard/H97I-AC.html#hero-specification

 

I do not know for certain if these boards do or not, but it does not change the fact that their prices are still more expensive than H81 boards, and still going to cost more than what its worth. 

Yeah sadly they always cost more...