Mechanical Keyboard Club!

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

1 hour ago, MrBaker89 said:

Can anyone recommend a tactile non clicky switch that has a heavier actuation/resistance? 

There are few options:

• heavier linears, like Gateron yellows or even blacks. Yes, so said tactiles, but these are very nice to type on and being heavier than reds you find on all the gamer boards means lot less trouble with typos etc.
• Gateron baby Kangaroo or Boba U4T: these are heavier to actuate, but also have a very early tactile bump with almost zero lead (the actuation point where a press is registered is still at the usual spot). A lot of people really like this
• Holy Panda switches: no personal experience, but another tactile switch lots of people seem to like.
• Cherry MX clear might also be heavier than the Keychron browns.

If you really want to dive deep: 

https://www.theremingoat.com/  Lots of really in-depth reviews of switches, with force-curves to give you an idea about the feel of the switch.

Just the curves are here:

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron KS9 Pro 2.0 Brown/Gateron KS9 Pro 2.0 Brown.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron Baby Kangaroo/Gateron Baby Kangaroo.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron Kangaroo Ink/Gateron Kangaroo Ink.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Drop Holy Panda X Clear (5 Pin)/Drop Holy Panda X Clear (5 Pin).pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Cherry MX Clear/Cherry MX Clear.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Cherry MX Brown/Cherry MX Brown.pdf

 

Edit: 

I forgot: Keychron also has "banana" and "mint" tactiles now, which sound very similar to baby kangaroos etc. They appear out of stock, but maybe that is another option for you.

[MrBaker89]

1 hour ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

There are few options:

• heavier linears, like Gateron yellows or even blacks. Yes, so said tactiles, but these are very nice to type on and being heavier than reds you find on all the gamer boards means lot less trouble with typos etc.
• Gateron baby Kangaroo or Boba U4T: these are heavier to actuate, but also have a very early tactile bump with almost zero lead (the actuation point where a press is registered is still at the usual spot). A lot of people really like this
• Holy Panda switches: no personal experience, but another tactile switch lots of people seem to like.
• Cherry MX clear might also be heavier than the Keychron browns.

If you really want to dive deep: 

https://www.theremingoat.com/  Lots of really in-depth reviews of switches, with force-curves to give you an idea about the feel of the switch.

Just the curves are here:

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron KS9 Pro 2.0 Brown/Gateron KS9 Pro 2.0 Brown.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron Baby Kangaroo/Gateron Baby Kangaroo.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron Kangaroo Ink/Gateron Kangaroo Ink.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Drop Holy Panda X Clear (5 Pin)/Drop Holy Panda X Clear (5 Pin).pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Cherry MX Clear/Cherry MX Clear.pdf

https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Cherry MX Brown/Cherry MX Brown.pdf

 

Edit: 

I forgot: Keychron also has "banana" and "mint" tactiles now, which sound very similar to baby kangaroos etc. They appear out of stock, but maybe that is another option for you.

Thank you! 

 

I will have a look through these and more than likely order a sample of each switch to see which I prefer best. 

 

In the UK there used to be a lot of large proper PC shops where you could go and try something before you bought it. Sadly, these have all gone. Even Overclockers has closed their retail shop. 

[Vonrottes]

After years of using wireless membrane, and most recently a K55 membrane.

I've ascended to mechanical with a Glorious GMMK pro

Gateron brown switches

and G.skill crystal crown caps.

 

Caps were super cheap and aren't the right sizes but all microcenter had that were white/crystal, plenty of frosted pudding? Caps.

[MrBaker89]

So I took my K10 Pro apart the other night to do the tape mod on the PCB. 

 

Put it all back together and now the space bar has a slight ticking sound to it when it's used. 

 

I've noticed if I very lightly tap the spacebar there is some free-play in it and it makes the ticking sound. 

 

Does anyone know how to get rid of it?

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

1 hour ago, MrBaker89 said:

Put it all back together and now the space bar has a slight ticking sound to it when it's used. 

 

I've noticed if I very lightly tap the spacebar there is some free-play in it and it makes the ticking sound. 

 

There are a few things you can try, but I have to be honest my success rate is rather low with these things. I'll do my best to describe what I have tried in the past and what my current understanding of the issue is.

 

First off, to my knowledge you have already identified the cause of stabilizer ticking: play of the wire in one of the two stems. Usually this is exacerbated by 'looseness' of the wire, meaning there is little resistance for the wire to move and any little disturbance will move it around and lead to ticks or pings/rattle.

 

What you can do to mitigate this depends on your level of commitment and available tools/materials:

• Lubing up the stabs more, with grease like krytox 205g0, or dielectric grease (usually the permatex stuff). The idea is not only to lubricate the stab, but to use it to keep the wire from moving easily under light load, yet lubricate under higher load. Grease is usually shear-thinning and rather viscous under no shear. Good to keep it in place and prevent it from creeping all over the place. So add more grease to the inside of the stab where the wire sits, either with a tube or syringe. Downside is that this can get messy and that you can overdo it and the stab becomes 'sticky'.
• Mod the stabilizer stem to improve the tolerances. This can be done with stuff like bandaids or thin electrical tape etc. To give you an idea, the image below is stolen from Durock's stabilizer listing on amazon to give you an idea where the thing would go. Result would be that the hole for the wire to go in is just large enough for the thing to pivot but not rattle around. This would be the red things in the image below (12).
• Worst case you would have to straighten the wire if it is bend.
• Another thing that I found works great, especially on plate mount stabs but also on screw-in ones, is to add a small section of sticky foam underneath the wire. Idea with this is to cushion and apply minimal pressure on the thing, kind of like holding it with a finger very softly. vibrations and rattle get dampened quite effectively, but rotations or larger movements from actuation are hardly impeded. You would need the foam things though. I simply recycled the offcuts from this: https://kbdfans.com/products/kbdfans-module-foam They come in sheets precut, so lots of narrow strips left after peeling them off. This would be position (3) in the image below.
• Last but not least make sure the keycap is seated properly. Sometimes one side is pressed in more than the other and you have uneven actuation/travel.

Hopefully this gives you some ideas on how to deal with this issue. 

 

[MrBaker89]

7 minutes ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

There are a few things you can try, but I have to be honest my success rate is rather low with these things. I'll do my best to describe what I have tried in the past and what my current understanding of the issue is.

 

First off, to my knowledge you have already identified the cause of stabilizer ticking: play of the wire in one of the two stems. Usually this is exacerbated by 'looseness' of the wire, meaning there is little resistance for the wire to move and any little disturbance will move it around and lead to ticks or pings/rattle.

 

What you can do to mitigate this depends on your level of commitment and available tools/materials:

• Lubing up the stabs more, with grease like krytox 205g0, or dielectric grease (usually the permatex stuff). The idea is not only to lubricate the stab, but to use it to keep the wire from moving easily under light load, yet lubricate under higher load. Grease is usually shear-thinning and rather viscous under no shear. Good to keep it in place and prevent it from creeping all over the place. So add more grease to the inside of the stab where the wire sits, either with a tube or syringe. Downside is that this can get messy and that you can overdo it and the stab becomes 'sticky'.
• Mod the stabilizer stem to improve the tolerances. This can be done with stuff like bandaids or thin electrical tape etc. To give you an idea, the image below is stolen from Durock's stabilizer listing on amazon to give you an idea where the thing would go. Result would be that the hole for the wire to go in is just large enough for the thing to pivot but not rattle around. This would be the red things in the image below (1).
• Worst case you would have to straighten the wire if it is bend.
• Another thing that I found works great, especially on plate mount stabs but also on screw-in ones, is to add a small section of sticky foam underneath the wire. Idea with this is to cushion and apply minimal pressure on the thing, kind of like holding it with a finger very softly. vibrations and rattle get dampened quite effectively, but rotations or larger movements from actuation are hardly impeded. You would need the foam things though. I simply recycled the offcuts from this: https://kbdfans.com/products/kbdfans-module-foam They come in sheets precut, so lots of narrow strips left after peeling them off. This would be position (3) in the image below.
• Last but not least make sure the keycap is seated properly. Sometimes one side is pressed in more than the other and you have uneven actuation/travel.

Hopefully this gives you some ideas on how to deal with this issue. 

 

 

Thank you so much for your in depth reply! I will try some of these suggestions. 

 

I wish I had never taken the spacebar key cap off now lol

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

1 hour ago, MrBaker89 said:

I wish I had never taken the spacebar key cap off now lol

Yeah, been there a few times: done some work on a board, all sounds great when you put it back together except that one key or stabilizer. So... taking everything apart again, fiddling etc., nothing found or really changed.... key sounds great, but now the spacebar rattles. 

There is a bit of luck involved, I guess.

 

If it gets really bad you can always just completely disassemble the stabilizer, clean it and relube everything etc. Quite tedious though, especially if you don't have some tools to hold the thing and good brushes etc.

[Jorgemeister]

DOIO Megalodon 3 knob Pad. Its really well built, the VIA set up for the 4 layers is so easy and simple to set up.

 

 

 

 

[Volbet]

I decided to try another Alice layout keyboard, this time a Keychron Q14 Pro:

The board has been build out with lubed and filmed KNCKeys Clackbits linear switches and PBTFans BoW keycaps. The extra keys over the numpad are just metal keycaps bought from Keychron.

As is the case with a lot of entry-level keyboards, the white that Keychron has gone with for the case isn't really white. In person it has a pretty obvious pink/purple tint. It's not something you notice in daily use, but it's definitely noticeable.

I also decided to do as I say and actually use the included stabilizers. Lubed up, they're actually really good. I put a bit of Krytox 205g0 in the housing, some XHT-BDZ on the wires, and a bit of insulation foam under the wire and all is good. No rattle or sticking in sight.

 

It seems that the "issues" that I've experienced with other of Keychron's aluminum keyboards is still present on the new Pro-line. So I still highly recommend to do a the forcebreak mod, a tape mod and find something to stuff the case with.

For me the filling seem to default to pouring silicone into it:

After I bought the keyboard, Keychron put an acoustic upgrade kit up for sake on their website. As I decided to go all in, I can't really comment on how well that works, but it might be worth it, if you're interested in a Q-series Keychron.

 

But without any kind of filling, the keyboard has a rather loud metallic ring. Every time you hit a key it's like hitting a bell.

[Jorgemeister]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:23 AM, Volbet said:

 ... snip snip...

Do the Q series not come with silicon dampener? I have a V1 and they do, its a thick silicon sheet. but maybe it makes sense if they want to have the "alu case sound" as a feature.

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

2 hours ago, Jorgemeister said:

Do the Q series not come with silicon dampener? I have a V1 and they do, its a thick silicon sheet. but maybe it makes sense if they want to have the "alu case sound" as a feature.

No, they don't.

Instead they have a "double gasket" structure, which is really just a variant on the force break mod. They have additional silicone pieces between the two metal parts, which is intended to reduce metal ping. There is also a thin plastic sheet on the inside of the bottom, not sure if that is for insulation of the pcb or for sound though.

 

Overall my Q6 isn't too pingy, but early Q1 and Q2 were very pingy apparently. I don't have a lot of experience with other metal cases though.

[Volbet]

2 hours ago, Jorgemeister said:

Do the Q series not come with silicon dampener? I have a V1 and they do, its a thick silicon sheet. but maybe it makes sense if they want to have the "alu case sound" as a feature.

Unfortunately, all the Q- and Q-Pro series comes with is a thin sheet of film and a think layer of sparse foam. You can buy acoustic upgrade kits on Keychron's website, but I haven't had the opportunity to test those out yet. 

 

Going for the sound of metal case certainly could be case, but the quality of the machining doesn't really lend to a good sound, as my experience with both the Q6, the Q4, and the Q14 Pro has been that they ring like crazy. I guess it's a sound that someone will like, but it isn't for me. 

The ping that's prevalent on Keychron's metal cases can be remedied quite easily by the forcebreak mod, so they are workable, but it's still annoying that you need to mod a keyboard you just bought.  

[Jorgemeister]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:36 AM, Volbet said:

Unfortunately, all the Q- and Q-Pro series comes with is a thin sheet of film and a think layer of sparse foam. You can buy acoustic upgrade kits on Keychron's website, but I haven't had the opportunity to test those out yet. 

 

Going for the sound of metal case certainly could be case, but the quality of the machining doesn't really lend to a good sound, as my experience with both the Q6, the Q4, and the Q14 Pro has been that they ring like crazy. I guess it's a sound that someone will like, but it isn't for me. 

The ping that's prevalent on Keychron's metal cases can be remedied quite easily by the forcebreak mod, so they are workable, but it's still annoying that you need to mod a keyboard you just bought.  

 

Honestly at that price range I would go with some well known group buy, I have seen some that seems to offer more bang for buck, unless I want something ready to use and in a specific layer, which to be fair they basically has them all covered, but as you said, whats the point if I still have to mod it to make it better.

 

I prefer deeper sounds so even on alu cases I always end up using case foam and plate foam, Not a fan of the natural alu case foam but that is just preference.

 

On 10/9/2023 at 11:30 AM, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

No, they don't.

Instead they have a "double gasket" structure, which is really just a variant on the force break mod. They have additional silicone pieces between the two metal parts, which is intended to reduce metal ping. There is also a thin plastic sheet on the inside of the bottom, not sure if that is for insulation of the pcb or for sound though.

 

Overall my Q6 isn't too pingy, but early Q1 and Q2 were very pingy apparently. I don't have a lot of experience with other metal cases though.

I think I know that thin layer of plastic you are refering to, is like a film, the one uses for old cameras not idea what is that supposed to achieve, insulation for the PCB is a good guess.

 

 

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

1 hour ago, Jorgemeister said:

Honestly at that price range I would go with some well known group buy, I have seen some that seems to offer more bang for buck, unless I want something ready to use and in a specific layer, which to be fair they basically has them all covered, but as you said, whats the point if I still have to mod it to make it better.

The main appeal of Keychron was always the decent tradeoff between price, quality, choice (full-size, ISO layouts), and convenience; especially when you are new to this world of mechanical keyboards.

Yes, you could get better deals in group buys or with some specific vendors (and even more so now to be honest), but you have to find those. Keychron just offers this nice one-stop shop where you can almost everything in good enough quality for a good enough price. And in some cases, like full-size keyboards with normal layout, it is one of the few budget friendlier vendors (especially with K Pro and V series).

Plus all of the accessories and little things like switches, keycaps etc. with convenient compatibility lists etc.

 

Most other places I have seen don't offer full-size, or only 96% or something just slightly smaller that I never understood (looking at you Nuphy, why no regular full-size?!). In the TKL and smaller market the competition has become quite stiff though, and I already know my next purchases for those christmas presents will be a Cidoo or other model over the Q series. (BTW, anyone know whether those are also available in ISO layout?)

[Sonicrick]

0EVGA Z20 Keyboard. atm 

[MrBaker89]

On 10/2/2023 at 2:27 PM, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

There are a few things you can try, but I have to be honest my success rate is rather low with these things. I'll do my best to describe what I have tried in the past and what my current understanding of the issue is.

 

First off, to my knowledge you have already identified the cause of stabilizer ticking: play of the wire in one of the two stems. Usually this is exacerbated by 'looseness' of the wire, meaning there is little resistance for the wire to move and any little disturbance will move it around and lead to ticks or pings/rattle.

 

What you can do to mitigate this depends on your level of commitment and available tools/materials:

• Lubing up the stabs more, with grease like krytox 205g0, or dielectric grease (usually the permatex stuff). The idea is not only to lubricate the stab, but to use it to keep the wire from moving easily under light load, yet lubricate under higher load. Grease is usually shear-thinning and rather viscous under no shear. Good to keep it in place and prevent it from creeping all over the place. So add more grease to the inside of the stab where the wire sits, either with a tube or syringe. Downside is that this can get messy and that you can overdo it and the stab becomes 'sticky'.
• Mod the stabilizer stem to improve the tolerances. This can be done with stuff like bandaids or thin electrical tape etc. To give you an idea, the image below is stolen from Durock's stabilizer listing on amazon to give you an idea where the thing would go. Result would be that the hole for the wire to go in is just large enough for the thing to pivot but not rattle around. This would be the red things in the image below (12).
• Worst case you would have to straighten the wire if it is bend.
• Another thing that I found works great, especially on plate mount stabs but also on screw-in ones, is to add a small section of sticky foam underneath the wire. Idea with this is to cushion and apply minimal pressure on the thing, kind of like holding it with a finger very softly. vibrations and rattle get dampened quite effectively, but rotations or larger movements from actuation are hardly impeded. You would need the foam things though. I simply recycled the offcuts from this: https://kbdfans.com/products/kbdfans-module-foam They come in sheets precut, so lots of narrow strips left after peeling them off. This would be position (3) in the image below.
• Last but not least make sure the keycap is seated properly. Sometimes one side is pressed in more than the other and you have uneven actuation/travel.

Hopefully this gives you some ideas on how to deal with this issue. 

 

So, I slid a thin piece of tape down the left and right side of the stab and added some extra permatex dielectric grease. It's got rid of the tick but made my space bar very heavy to use.... Does anyone know a trick of getting the tape out without having to dismantle the whole keyboard? 

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

4 hours ago, MrBaker89 said:

So, I slid a thin piece of tape down the left and right side of the stab and added some extra permatex dielectric grease. It's got rid of the tick but made my space bar very heavy to use.... Does anyone know a trick of getting the tape out without having to dismantle the whole keyboard? 

Can you get the pieces of tape out of there again? Probably the tolerances are now too tight as the tape is too thick or you applied it on the wrong spot. Getting rid of some excess grease can also help.

 

Is it stiff on both the press and return, or only slow/sticky on the return? In the latter case it can help to use a heavier switch sometimes.

[Jorgemeister]

Changed keycaps on my Neo65, Hammerhead dark from Ghost Judges. Also took the opportunity to change from O-ring to gasket, I feel no difference when typing TBH, but if I press it hard it is definitely bouncier.

 

Same Boba U4T switches.

 

[MrBaker89]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:43 PM, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

Can you get the pieces of tape out of there again? Probably the tolerances are now too tight as the tape is too thick or you applied it on the wrong spot. Getting rid of some excess grease can also help.

 

Is it stiff on both the press and return, or only slow/sticky on the return? In the latter case it can help to use a heavier switch sometimes.

Disassembled the keyboard, got the stabs out, removed the tape. Added some Permatex with a very thin airfix brush and the ticking sound has gone! WOOOOO 

[Volbet]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:53 PM, Jorgemeister said:

Honestly at that price range I would go with some well known group buy, I have seen some that seems to offer more bang for buck, unless I want something ready to use and in a specific layer, which to be fair they basically has them all covered, but as you said, whats the point if I still have to mod it to make it better.

 

I prefer deeper sounds so even on alu cases I always end up using case foam and plate foam, Not a fan of the natural alu case foam but that is just preference.

 

I think I know that thin layer of plastic you are refering to, is like a film, the one uses for old cameras not idea what is that supposed to achieve, insulation for the PCB is a good guess.

I would agree on principle with buying a group buy rather than a Keychron. Even some of the cheaper boutique, in-stock option can offer more value. 

Something like the QK100 is a really likely a better value than something like the Keychron Q6. 

 

However, Keychron has the massive advantage of having little to no fulfilment time. I currently have group buys that are 6 months deep and having no date of final fulfilment yet. Only a vague quarter statement. 

I would also agree with @GarlicDeliverySystem that Keychron offering hotswap ISO support is a massive reason to get a Keychron. A lot of group buys only offer ISO on their solderable PCB options. For a beginner, or someone that likes experimenting with switches, that is a massive advantage. Believe me, desoldering a full-sized is a royal pain in the ass. 

 

15 hours ago, Jorgemeister said:

 

 

Changed keycaps on my Neo65, Hammerhead dark from Ghost Judges. Also took the opportunity to change from O-ring to gasket, I feel no difference when typing TBH, but if I press it hard it is definitely bouncier.

 

Same Boba U4T switches.

 




 

 

The Gazzew (Boba) U4T switches are a personal favorite of mine. Although, I need to get some more at some point. The Boba switches I have is pretty much a Ship of Theseus situation, as only the stem and bottom housing remain of the original switch. Everything else has been replaced. 

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

6 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Something like the QK100 is a really likely a better value than something like the Keychron Q6. 

Got excited there for a second, then I saw that the QK100 is also not 100% but something like 98% again.

Somehow I don't get the apparent disdain of the high-end market for the regular 100% layout...

[Volbet]

28 minutes ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

Got excited there for a second, then I saw that the QK100 is also not 100% but something like 98% again.

Somehow I don't get the apparent disdain of the high-end market for the regular 100% layout...

Yeah, the name of the QK100 is kinda misleading. The "100" is more so referring to it having 100 keys rather than it being a 100% layout. 

I don't remember where i read it, but producing a full-sized keyboard can apparently be exponentially more expensive than something like a TKL or 65%, as the CNC required isn't available everywhere, and the PCB takes quite a bit more to design and manufacture. 

There's also the price of entry for the consumer, as the price to populate a full sized keyboard is quite a bit more than a smaller keyboard. You not only have to buy more switches, you also have to buy more keycaps. 

 

Although, the recent influx of larger 96% and 98% custom keyboards makes me hopeful that we'll see full sized offerings sooner rather then later. 

 

Personally, I have realized that I'm more than happy with a 96% keyboard for work. I don't use the majority of the navigation keys, so loosing some of those aren't a big deal to me. The only learning curve is due to the keys I do use being moved around a bit.

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

53 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I don't remember where i read it, but producing a full-sized keyboard can apparently be exponentially more expensive than something like a TKL or 65%, as the CNC required isn't available everywhere, and the PCB takes quite a bit more to design and manufacture. 

Now that you mentioned it, I never thought about the size being a constraint for CNC machine availability, but it makes total sense. Full size are quite a lot larger in the one dimension that is probably already the limiting factor, so it might just be that the currently used "standard" CNC block or whatever you'd call it just fits nicer for 65% etc. instead of full-size.

A lot of these 98% and slightly smaller keyboards do an awful lot it would seem to save on length, must be worth it to justify coming up with new PCB designs. Because otherwise I don't understand why a 98% keyboard exists that just squishes everything ever so slightly together; those two or three switches saved won't break the bank imho, nor does the material itself.

 

Unfortunately, I am one of the weird people who uses some of the key features of a full size board:

• long right shift key, as I use the right pinky to press shift a lot
• the previous one, in combination with all those symbols there for programming occasionally
• Numblock, as I do have to copy some values into excel every now and then, or use software with lots of number inputs
• I also found out I use the numpblock enter key much more than I though, as I often flick it with my thumb when entering something where I need the mouse shortly after
• pgup,pgdn, ins,del,end I do use; not often enough to really notice it, but I did notice immediately when I hadn't had them for about 10 minute of work.

So for me a 100% is just the most convenient, for everything else I would need to know/learn so many more shortcuts. And I already use two layouts for different languages, so I have a strong preference for full-size. Can't imagine I am the only one.

 

I do have a cheap 68%, mostly for testing/learning more permanent mods or to test switches (it is a lot cheaper, definitely a win for the small keebs gang there), so I might just have to bite the bullet and really transition for a few weeks. But I would hate to.

[Jorgemeister]

5 hours ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

Got excited there for a second, then I saw that the QK100 is also not 100% but something like 98% again.

Somehow I don't get the apparent disdain of the high-end market for the regular 100% layout...

Speaking of the QK100, it's in stock right now, apparently extras from the group buy that just happened. Looks like a good deal if someone needs a alu 98% board with a screen. 

 

5 hours ago, Volbet said:

I would agree on principle with buying a group buy rather than a Keychron. Even some of the cheaper boutique, in-stock option can offer more value. 

Something like the QK100 is a really likely a better value than something like the Keychron Q6. 

 

However, Keychron has the massive advantage of having little to no fulfilment time. I currently have group buys that are 6 months deep and having no date of final fulfilment yet. Only a vague quarter statement. 

I would also agree with @GarlicDeliverySystem that Keychron offering hotswap ISO support is a massive reason to get a Keychron. A lot of group buys only offer ISO on their solderable PCB options. For a beginner, or someone that likes experimenting with switches, that is a massive advantage. Believe me, desoldering a full-sized is a royal pain in the ass. 

 

6 months in a group buy sounds way too long for me, I try to get on the short ones, you mentioned QK, their are often 2 months max, my experience with them is less than that. 

 

And absolutely agreed on Keychron, it's hard not to be tempted by their lineup, availability and ease of everything really, I think the keyboard community is growing thanks to companies like keychron enticing new people into mechanical keyboards. 

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

12 hours ago, Jorgemeister said:

And absolutely agreed on Keychron, it's hard not to be tempted by their lineup, availability and ease of everything really, I think the keyboard community is growing thanks to companies like keychron enticing new people into mechanical keyboards.

Another thing I just noticed about Keychron: they appear to be a quite cheap source for Gateron switches. I was just looking for some G Pro 3.0 (sold out unfortunately), but amazon and some other retailers here in EU were all significantly more expensive than the 24$ per 110 you get there, plus shipping.

Most EU shops either don't have G Pro 3.0 or don't state which ones they are (just "G Pro"), or they cost about 50EUR for 105 or even more if you have to buy them in 10s or exact quantity.

 

In other words: anyone know a good source for affordable switches in EU? Or other great linear switches that are not breaking the bank?