If Zen fails?

[JoshB2084]

Likely the death of PC gaming.   No for real though, PC gaming will be a dark place, where Intel and Nvidea reign supreme.... essentially :

 

 

I'm scared...

[CyberneticTitan]

do you think, that NVidea will get back to consoles, graphics? Like with the PS3 the RSX was based on one of the desktop GPU's they had, in you know...... 2006. But they have lots of these GPU's in the shield, surface RT and some more. But this might be a fun try for nvidea, if they are able to.

 

Interesting question. I think Nvidia will continue to ship proprietary devices until their mobile chips like Tegra are outstanding, cheap, and compatible enough that perhaps Sony or Microsoft will adopt their solution.

[arniks8]

I'm scared...

Be strong brother and don't fear the future, we all will get through it .

[Clyne]

If Zen fails:

What's AMD?

Where did the X86_64 thing go?

[burnttoastnice]

Where did the X86_64 thing go?

 

What was AMD64 again? You mean Intel64 right?

[Clyne]

What was AMD64 again? You mean Intel64 right?

AMD made 64, Intel simply adopted it and renamed it. 

[Dabombinable]

Where did the X86_64 thing go?

x86 and x64 aren't actually that good, the only reason we still use it today is becuase they've been used for so long. For example, you can make non x86 processors that are cheaper and faster (think the PS4-though it is apparently a bitch to program for)

[Dabombinable]

AMD made 64, Intel simply adopted it and renamed it. 

Oh really (looking for a non wikipedia source):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itanium

 

And here is the better alternative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Architecture

[Clyne]

Oh really (looking for a non wikipedia source):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itanium

Ik about Itanium, but it was never adopted/widespread as what AMD64. Plus Itanium was only on certain CPUs and some servers.

[Dabombinable]

Ik about Itanium, but it was never adopted/widespread as what AMD64. Plus Itanium was only on certain CPUs and some servers.

Poiunt is, Intel had their own co-developed 64bit architecture that had nothing to do with AMD's version, AMD only allowed bacwards compatibility with x86.

 

Edit: Also, AMD64 is an extension of x86, not a whole new 64bit architecture such as IA 64

[Shoob]

Didn't AMD say that Zen will have 40% better IPC than their FX chips (Vishera)? If that's the case, Zen's IPC will be on par with Haswell or a little ahead, which isn't great. I really hope Zen's selling point is better performance than Intel, because most consumers won't buy it if it's only a little better or costs a little less than Intel's counterparts - it has to be much better. 

[Clyne]

Poiunt is, Intel had their own co-developed 64bit architecture that had nothing to do with AMD's version, AMD only allowed bacwards compatibility with x86.

 

Edit: Also, AMD64 is an extension of x86, not a whole new 64bit architecture such as IA 64

But Intel's own's 64 but architecture wasn't widely adopted/certain cpus only had it and thus failed. 

[Dabombinable]

But Intel's own's 64 but architecture wasn't widely adopted/certain cpus only had it and thus failed. 

Because as a whole people didn't think they needed it-mainly due to the amount of RAM it allowed them to use. As per usual they got proven wrong and AMD's version was adopted as by its very nature it allowed greater backwards compatibility with x86 applications (which really are't actually that great).

[Clyne]

Because as a whole people didn't think they needed it-mainly due to the amount of RAM it allowed them to use. As per usual they got proven wrong and AMD's version was adopted as by its very nature it allowed greater backwards compatibility with x86 applications (which really are't actually that great).

And that's why, people adopted AMD's version as it was easier/more support to use.

[Dabombinable]

And that's why, people adopted AMD's version as it was easier/more support to use.

Ask yourself this: How many people still rely on 32bit OS (excluding those stuck with bottom end ripoffs with 2GB of RAM-I'm surprised that they still exist)?

[Clyne]

Ask yourself this: How many people still rely on 32bit OS (excluding those stuck with bottom end ripoffs with 2GB of RAM-I'm surprised that they still exist)?

A lot, but not a lot from what i seen.

Laptops and prebuilt desktop PCs usually have 64bit OS.

I still got a C2D with 2GB of ram, but not my focus atm. Still using 32 on my 64 X2, soon to be a C2Q or something with a GTX 280.

[Andrew Sh]

If Zen Fails AMD is bought out by Samsung or something.

Or Last chance Artic Islands may save them.

Hate to say it but stop saying "next gen stuff will save X company".

 

AMD just released a new GPU series, From what I read, Arctic Islands is expected no earlier than H2 2016.

Every year, we can say the next generation will be better. Isn't that obvious though?

Reality is that if Zen fails, AMD will most likely have to drop out of any mid-high end builds and just make APUs and cpus for low end machines since that seems to be where they are stuck at now.

I'm sure their GPU market won't die out just yet because the 300 series isn't doing that bad on performance, especially with DX12 looking to help it out quite a lot.

[Dabombinable]

A lot, but not a lot from what i seen.

Laptops and prebuilt desktop PCs usually have 64bit OS.

I still got a C2D with 2GB of ram, but not my focus atm. Still using 32 on my 64 X2, soon to be a C2Q or something with a GTX 280.

My main point is that if (or when) AMD goes in the next few years, it won't actually be that difficult to transition to a new soley 64bit architecture-though Intel doesn't seem to have actually done much to improve IA-86 over the years, or the CPU that curently use it.

[Dabombinable]

Hate to say it but stop saying "next gen stuff will save X company".

 

AMD just released a new GPU series, From what I read, Arctic Islands is expected no earlier than H2 2016.

Every year, we can say the next generation will be better. Isn't that obvious though?

Reality is that if Zen fails, AMD will most likely have to drop out of any mid-high end builds and just make APUs and cpus for low end machines since that seems to be where they are stuck at now.

I'm sure their GPU market won't die out just yet because the 300 series isn't doing that bad on performance, especially with DX12 looking to help it out quite a lot.

Zen has a high chance of being a flop, people with Haswell won't have any reason to side grade due to the similar performance that AMD is projecting, and Intel already has superseded Haswell with Skylake and planned a 3rd line of 14nm CPU for 2016/2017.

[Prysin]

Didn't AMD say that Zen will have 40% better IPC than their FX chips (Vishera)? If that's the case, Zen's IPC will be on par with Haswell or a little ahead, which isn't great. I really hope Zen's selling point is better performance than Intel, because most consumers won't buy it if it's only a little better or costs a little less than Intel's counterparts - it has to be much better. 

no, they say 40% better then Excavator (Carrizo). Excavator already has 25% or more better IPC then Vishera.

[Andrew Sh]

Zen has a high chance of being a flop, people with Haswell won't have any reason to side grade due to the similar performance that AMD is projecting, and Intel already has superseded Haswell with Skylake and planned a 3rd line of 14nm CPU for 2016/2017.

Yeah I know.

I sincerely hope that Zen will be awesome and will take Skylake or the current gen intel cpu (at that time) head on, Seriusly, I do because Intel needs a kick in the ass.

 

Only time will tell.

[Prysin]

My main point is that if (or when) AMD goes in the next few years, it won't actually be that difficult to transition to a new soley 64bit architecture-though Intel doesn't seem to have actually done much to improve IA-86 over the years, or the CPU that curently use it.

The whole reason X86-64 is widespread is because it is backwards compatible, and Intel64 is not backwards compatible with X86. That was the whole reason for X86-64 being the "winner" back in the days.

Unless intel has rewritten then Intel64 instructions to be backwards compatible, then nobody will care. As you may end up having to buy either a 32bit or a 64bit CPU in the future if the systems aint backwards compatible.

[Dabombinable]

The whole reason X86-64 is widespread is because it is backwards compatible, and Intel64 is not backwards compatible with X86. That was the whole reason for X86-64 being the "winner" back in the days.

Unless intel has rewritten then Intel64 instructions to be backwards compatible, then nobody will care. As you may end up having to buy either a 32bit or a 64bit CPU in the future if the systems aint backwards compatible.

I've already had a discussion with @Bubblewhale about it. You however I'm not willing to discuss anything with due to your attitude in other topics.

[Dinkleberg]

I wouldn't really attach AMD's survival with Zen's success, they'd still have Arctic Islands up their sleeve and the server market. Bulldozer was a flop, but it doesn't mean Zen will be one, I'm actually betting on Zen, if it has Haswell-like IPC, and AMD release an 8-core with multithreading for 400-500 dollars and a quad core with multithreading for $200-250 they'd undercut Intel.

[Prysin]

I've already had a discussion with @Bubblewhale about it. You however I'm not willing to discuss anything with due to your attitude in other topics.

if all you are going to post is an attempt of a personal attack, you might aswell not bother posting.

 

k thx bye