AMD did not send review samples of upcoming series to hardware reviewers (like LTT) in time for the 16th reveal

[Overkilled]

How does one become a so called "Red team PLUS" member

[monstercameron]

It sounds to me like you are having some sort of issue with the topic. It appears to me it doesn't matter how many times I say this could be nothing and unless the article was about nvidia or intel you'd still call me unreasonable, because you don't like the fact that it is about AMD.

Yeah sorry about that, it is just my bias. ltt forums has so much amd bashing it gets quite tiring. Please don't take it personally, I just rather we stop furthering falsities and misinformation, especially without and solid data to back it up.

[monstercameron]

except you completely ignored the fact they're already established as social media <_<

wanna see more evidence AMD is blocking reviewers access? AMD has received las week, on the 8th, 24 Radeon Fury X video cards: https://i.imgur.com/qCM1Fls.jpg - where are they? if AMD had every intention to give them to hardware reviewers, LTT, PCPEr, KitGuru, Legit Reviews, 3DGuru would not've called foul

And how does that prove anything? Where is the evidence? Why do you care who does or doesn't get review samples?

[sgloux3470]

sources: http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-shows-radeon-r9-300-series-cards-to-red-team-plus_165838

 

 

KitGuru didn't get one either, and he's saying press was excluded (!!!) from the showings:

Guru3D didn't got any: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5094927&postcount=9

so ... AMD is giving away new 300-series (and possibly Fury) cards to RT+ members to promote via social media

at the same time, AMD is not distributing review samples to hardware review websites

---

that shows how much confidence AMD has in their products  <_<

 

 

Ryan's comments remind me of how Nintendo said fuck the gaming press and started doing Nintendo Direct instead.  Personally, I've enjoyed that format way more than the traditional media approach.  But with games it's really easy to tell if I'm going to like them just by watching some footage and hearing about the concept, hardware I tend to like benchmarks atleast.

 

In this case, I think AMD intends to talk about their cards at their E3 presentation.  Only reason they are on shelves I suspect is because shipments usually come in Friday and retailers are putting them out for this week early.

 

I also prefer the idea of being pitched to directly and making up my own conclusion than getting second hand info from someone who is giving me their own conclusion.  

[zMeul]

...

updated post

why do I care?! I care because you people where the one bashing nVidia for everything under the sun, warranted or not, and when AMD does some douchebaggery you suddenly see no problem

I wonder your true intentions here  <_<

[zMeul]

Only reason they are on shelves I suspect is because shipments usually come in Friday and retailers are putting them out for this week early.

the problem with that logic is OCUK said since last month they already have the new cards in storage  :unsure:

[mr moose]

Ryan's comments remind me of how Nintendo said fuck the gaming press and started doing Nintendo Direct instead.  Personally, I've enjoyed that format way more than the traditional media approach.  But with games it's really easy to tell if I'm going to like them just by watching some footage and hearing about the concept, hardware I tend to like benchmarks atleast.

 

In this case, I think AMD intends to talk about their cards at their E3 presentation.  Only reason they are on shelves I suspect is because shipments usually come in Friday and retailers are putting them out for this week early.

 

I also prefer the idea of being pitched to directly and making up my own conclusion than getting second hand info from someone who is giving me their own conclusion.  

 

I prefer to see many independent reviews (we can take the average of many to avoid credibility issues) over first party marketing.  With games I understand your point, it's not really hard to work out if you are interested in something from a few demos and story line content.  But hardware is soooo much different.

 

The biggest issue for me is that it looks like the only opinions we are going to get on the products before it goes on sale are from hand picked patrons of social media. I seriously hope if this is the case then people don't buy anything until reviewers get a chance to go over them.  If they do then this could be a green light to all companies to cease sending reviewers pre-release samples.

[jackalopeater]

Red Team Plus is a group of actual AMD hardware users,both young and old that were invited by AMD to volunteer their time in various ways for well over a year, nearly two years for some. 
Some are streamers .. some are social media junkies.. some are hardware nuts and custom game builders but none are paid by AMD or are employed by the company.

 

Here is a list of all the members if you wish to check us out for yourself.  https://twitter.com/jackalopeater/lists/amd-red-team-plus/members

[sgloux3470]

the problem with that logic is OCUK said since last month they already have the new cards in storage  :unsure:

 

A large retailer may get them in their warehouse early, but a place like BestBuy etc is only going to get them right before launch.

 

 

I prefer to see many independent reviews (we can take the average of many to avoid credibility issues) over first party marketing.  With games I understand your point, it's not really hard to work out if you are interested in something from a few demos and story line content.  But hardware is soooo much different.

 

The biggest issue for me is that it looks like the only opinions we are going to get on the products before it goes on sale are from hand picked patrons of social media. I seriously hope if this is the case then people don't buy anything until reviewers get a chance to go over them.  If they do then this could be a green light to all companies to cease sending reviewers pre-release samples.

 

On the flip side, I think hardware often speaks for itself.  It has X amount of video RAM, it cost Y much and it plays game 1 and game 2 and Z FPS which I can relate to my current performance.  That's all I really need to know to make a purchasing decision.  

 

For something like a case I value the subjective opinion a lot more, because the experience of building in a case and how well all the different mounting solutions work is pretty important.  But for a video card or a CPU the only thing I really care about is "How does this relate to my current performance, or something whose performance I am already familiar with?"  

 

I don't really see the difference between select reviewers being given review copies versus select random joe.  If reviewers want to pretend that they are less likely to be influenced by a free review copy or whatever that's cool but I don't really believe them. (Everyone just reiterates whatever review guide Nvidia or whoever sent out anyway before benchmarks.)

[Misanthrope]

How does one become a so called "Red team PLUS" member

 

I know only Paul a.k.a. iamapropos as he is a formerly from the red team plus and all I know is that he was a small time streamer and youtuber big on AMD hardware and I know a friend of him and fellow streamer was brought in not long ago so it's likely just AMD reps that stumble on some streamers and their friends and so on. 

[Misanthrope]

A large retailer may get them in their warehouse early, but a place like BestBuy etc is only going to get them right before launch.

 

Bestbuy its pretty large, not sure what you mean

[sgloux3470]

Bestbuy its pretty large, not sure what you mean

 

What I mean is that OCUK is a warehouse that ships things and Bestbuy is a store that stocks shelves.  By big I mean "volume".  Bestbuy gets a handful of cards per store, OCUK gets shelves.

[Misanthrope]

My take: AMD it's doing the exact same thing Kevin Smith tried with Red State: tell critics to fuck off and try to bring the movie to fans only. For him it actually kinda works since I'd pay 50 bucks to just go to a Kevin Smith Q&A (see Evening with Kevin Smith videos) and to see the premiere of his new movie all the better.

 

For AMD though? I don't know I personally know enough technical details to be bothered specially when comparing to the R9 200 series card which I own and gives me little incentive to continue. But on the other hand the 270, 270x and 280 - 280x are still the best choices on the market since Nvidia is basically ignoring a large segment: They jump from the 750ti to the 960 with nothing in between right now. Retailers that carry the 760 carry just mostly old stock not new. Being that the midrange is the most popular segment, particularly for countries like mine when almost nobody can afford a high end card, having a much better and wide range of prices and choices is good.

 

But of course most reviewers won't take a look at any of those cards and just focusing on how much the 390 and 390x suck. They wouldn't be wrong, but other cards do deserve some notice even if they're old if only because it's a segment that's so abandoned.

[Trik'Stari]

My take: AMD it's doing the exact same thing Kevin Smith tried with Red State: tell critics to fuck off and try to bring the movie to fans only. For him it actually kinda works since I'd pay 50 bucks to just go to a Kevin Smith Q&A (see Evening with Kevin Smith videos) and to see the premiere of his new movie all the better.

 

For AMD though? I don't know I personally know enough technical details to be bothered specially when comparing to the R9 200 series card which I own and gives me little incentive to continue. But on the other hand the 270, 270x and 280 - 280x are still the best choices on the market since Nvidia is basically ignoring a large segment: They jump from the 750ti to the 960 with nothing in between right now. Retailers that carry the 760 carry just mostly old stock not new. Being that the midrange is the most popular segment, particularly for countries like mine when almost nobody can afford a high end card, having a much better and wide range of prices and choices is good.

 

But of course most reviewers won't take a look at any of those cards and just focusing on how much the 390 and 390x suck. They wouldn't be wrong, but other cards do deserve some notice even if they're old if only because it's a segment that's so abandoned.

Kevin Smith's description of going on the set of the Millenium Falcon made me want to go on the set of the Millenium Falcon.

[Misanthrope]

What I mean is that OCUK is a warehouse that ships things and Bestbuy is a store that stocks shelves.  By big I mean "volume".  Bestbuy gets a handful of cards per store, OCUK gets shelves.

 

Ah ok, gotcha.

[Misanthrope]

Kevin Smith's description of going on the set of the Millenium Falcon made me want to go on the set of the Millenium Falcon.

 

Hopefully not as an independent contractor you know how he feels about those

[Trik'Stari]

Hopefully not as an independent contractor you know how he feels about those

*slow clap at awesome reference* (although I don't know how he feels, just that he mentions them in clerks, which is the best star wars joke ever)

[Misanthrope]

*slow clap at awesome reference* (although I don't know how he feels, just that he mentions them in clerks, which is the best star wars joke ever)

 

You can argue that a roofer listens to this *hearth* not his wallet, meaning if you're fixing rebels or empire be prepared to be blown up

[Overkilled]

I know only Paul a.k.a. iamapropos as he is a formerly from the red team plus and all I know is that he was a small time streamer and youtuber big on AMD hardware and I know a friend of him and fellow streamer was brought in not long ago so it's likely just AMD reps that stumble on some streamers and their friends and so on. 

Hmm so basically get a twitch following while mentioning how good AMD is every 30 seconds? I could do that except I don't own any AMD stuff but I could buy a 290x = get invited to have AMDs new ti killer

[zMeul]

...

and yet, what is your role in AMD public relations but to spread the "AMD's gospel"

you claim you are not "paid" by AMD and yet you receive gifts from them - in spite being "no one"

begs the question: how can "no one" receive unreleased hardware but, at the same time, established hardware reviewers with vast experience can not  <_<

 

I question the "RT+" existence! how  and why exactly is AMD going out of their way to please these "no ones" - look at their history, some of them don't even have 1000 subscribers on YT

hell, my YT channel has bit less than 400 subs and my hast activity was posting R9 280X problems i had with the cards

 

Dave Jones' (EEVblog) famous quote:

sniff sniff

smells like... BULLSHIT

[Misanthrope]

Hmm so basically get a twitch following while mentioning how good AMD is every 30 seconds? I could do that except I don't own any AMD stuff but I could buy a 290x = get invited to have AMDs new ti killer

 

Didn't watch Paul prior to him being in the red team so I couldn't tell you that, however I do know that he really did not overplayed it on his stream once he was. He mentioned a bit on the 285 on one stream out of several I watched and was generally more interesting in playing games and hyping up his stream though, standard affair.

 

But as I said I don't know the full story not enough to confirm or deny your opinion.

[mr moose]

 

A large retailer may get them in their warehouse early, but a place like BestBuy etc is only going to get them right before launch.

 

 

 

On the flip side, I think hardware often speaks for itself.  It has X amount of video RAM, it cost Y much and it plays game 1 and game 2 and Z FPS which I can relate to my current performance.  That's all I really need to know to make a purchasing decision.  

 

For something like a case I value the subjective opinion a lot more, because the experience of building in a case and how well all the different mounting solutions work is pretty important.  But for a video card or a CPU the only thing I really care about is "How does this relate to my current performance, or something whose performance I am already familiar with?"  

 

I don't really see the difference between select reviewers being given review copies versus select random joe.  If reviewers want to pretend that they are less likely to be influenced by a free review copy or whatever that's cool but I don't really believe them. (Everyone just reiterates whatever review guide Nvidia or whoever sent out anyway before benchmarks.)

 

 

There in lies the problem,  how do you find out how any specific piece of hardware performs at a certain task without independent reviewers?   Unless you buy the hardware and test it yourself you can't, you will always be at the mercy of marketers telling you what they want you to hear and unverifiable benchmarks from internet randoms.

 

I do believe that most benchmarkers (Luke, anandtech, pcper, guru etc) run proper tests, this is verifiable because when you compare everybody's results you will see they are all within margin of error of each other and when one is not the reviewer usually states that the results are not as expected and to be cautious with the results.   If you have some random joe benchmark a card and get the same results as everyone else you can be fairly certain they did not cheat, but if you get 5 benchmarks from 5 different people and they are all different then you have to ask which one is correct?  

 

This is how we know the mainstream independent reviewers are trustworthy,  their credibility hangs on doing it right, because if they don't the internet will hang them out to dry then bury them with all the other internet con artists.

[LAwLz]

Hmm so basically get a twitch following while mentioning how good AMD is every 30 seconds? I could do that except I don't own any AMD stuff but I could buy a 290x = get invited to have AMDs new ti killer

Not even that. Most of them doesn't even have 1000 followers, and their youtube videos get like ~200 views.

 

Pure speculation here, but I am willing to bet that the people on that list are doing things like recommending AMD products on forums under different usernames. It doesn't make sense that AMD would put a bunch of people with only ~800 followers (probably had a lot less before becoming an RT+ member) on such an exclusive list otherwise. They must be doing something else too (probably posting on forums).

[bogus]

Not even that. Most of them doesn't even have 1000 followers, and their youtube videos get like ~200 views.

 

Pure speculation here, but I am willing to bet that the people on that list are doing things like recommending AMD products on forums under different usernames. It doesn't make sense that AMD would put a bunch of people with only ~800 followers (probably had a lot less before becoming an RT+ member) on such an exclusive list otherwise. They must be doing something else too (probably posting on forums).

Just like I said: don't look only at social media profiles.

 

Most of the hardware purchase decisions and influences are in forums communitys.

 

Any brand with a proper social strategy has such tatical approaches.

[LAwLz]

Just like I said: don't look only at social media profiles.

 

Most of the hardware purchase decisions and influences are in forums communitys.

 

Any brand with a proper social strategy has such tatical approaches.

I think the term you're looking for is "shill".

I wouldn't call it a "proper social strategy" since shilling is illegal in many cases. Sure a lot of companies does it, but it should be extremely frowned upon and if exposed with hard evidence a court should get involved. Maybe I am optimistic but since it is illegal I hope the majority of companies does not do it. Besides if your product is good you shouldn't have to pay people to pretend like it is good.

 

It is not something we should encourage and brush under the rug.