Headphones... can I do better.

[Nosfy]

Hello folks.

 

I am bored and need your opinion. Currently I game with some Astro A50's.

 

Recently I have been tempted to get the Razer Tiamat 7.1 (only reason I haven't got them yet is because the green puts me off a little). 

 

The question is... should I? Would that be an upgrade or downgrade? Also anything else better out there. (only use them for gaming).

 

Thanks

[Prikk]

I wouldn't honestly. You probably won't hear any improvement between the two, though they might sound a little different. 

[alexyy]

Don't get either, a open pair of headphones such a DT990's would a lot better. 

[Nosfy]

Don't get either, a open pair of headphones such a DT990's would a lot better. 

 

I already have the Astro's. Are these DT990's just stereo?

 

Is 5.1 / 7.1 surround not worth it? Why all the hate on the Tiamat?

[alexyy]

I already have the Astro's. Are these DT990's just stereo?

 

Is 5.1 / 7.1 surround not worth it? Why all the hate on the Tiamat?

 

Because you have 2 ears not 5.1/7.1 ears. 

[Akame]

Digital 7.1 is pretty good for gaming and for movies.  Thought being in a real home theatre with real 7 speakers and a sub woofer would be a lot better.  I mean you could just game with speakers if you really want the best 7.1 experience I guess.

[Wauthar]

I already have the Astro's. Are these DT990's just stereo?

 

Is 5.1 / 7.1 surround not worth it? Why all the hate on the Tiamat?

I think there is a TechQuicky video about that. Basically, it is always better to have 2 large speakers for your 2 ears compared to 5/7 tiny, lower quality speakers.

[Prikk]

I already have the Astro's. Are these DT990's just stereo?

 

Is 5.1 / 7.1 surround not worth it? Why all the hate on the Tiamat?

 

What he meant my this is that the "True" 5.1 or 7.1 headset with multiple drivers is a gimmick. You need that distance between the speakers and your ear drums in order to truly hear the direction. Cramping it all into a tiny headset will do nothing but distort the sound.

 

I had the CM Storm true 5.1 headset too and tried the Roccat 5.1 headset and I can tell you for certain, they sound horrible relatively speaking to other headphones at those price. For the directional thing, my HD598s are just as good in virtual surround as those are, with the benefit of being able to listen to music with it.

 

So yea, I wouldn't get any of those "True surround sound headset" anymore.

[Nosfy]

Digital 7.1 is pretty good for gaming and for movies.  Thought being in a real home theatre with real 7 speakers and a sub woofer would be a lot better.  I mean you could just game with speakers if you really want the best 7.1 experience I guess.

 

According to the sales pitch the Tiamat is the "only analog 7.1 headset".

[alexyy]

According to the sales pitch the Tiamat is the "only analog 7.1 headset".

 

Just because statements are claimed by a company's doesn't its true.

 

Use a different pair of "non surround sound" headphones and listen to this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

[Chucksta]

Don't fall for 7.1/5.1 unless it is for actual speakers. Go to the stuff people here recommend you from Sennheiser and Byerdynamic. Astros and Razer sound products are all not the best you can get. You can still hear around yourself with just stereo just fine.

[creatip123]

According to the sales pitch the Tiamat is the "only analog 7.1 headset".

 

Just because statements are claimed by a company's doesn't its true.

 

Use a different pair of "non surround sound" headphones and listen to this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

 

Actually it is true. It's one of (if not only) 'true analog 7.1' in the sense that it got multiple drivers for each channels, and got their own inputs. Front channels go to front drivers accordingly, middle to middle, rear to rear, and so on. 

 

The problem is not that. The problem is, while it's true, is it beneficial or not? On which the general consensus is, it's not beneficial. 

 

Back to the main question, 'can I do better?' (assuming compared to the A50), of course you can. A wide range of better. Headphones run from below $100 to over $4000. Sennheiser Orpheus, what's regarded as 'THE best headphone in the world' is priced at around $30k (yep, 30 grand) for a used pair, not even a new one. This is just to give a general idea that the question of 'can I do better?' got really really wide variety of answers. 

 

Oh and that barber shop video, can't really be used as a comparison to gaming, because they're different things. The barber shop was recorded using binaural microphone technique, recording all the crossfeeds and reverbs of the real world scene. 

 

Gaming audio works in a different way. It got 1 sound/recording, process it using virtual surround algorithms (built-in sound engine of the games), and output it into a virtual surround sound with HRTF. 

 

Put in a simple way, you get the barber shop audio as it is, nothing you can do to interact with it. Gaming audio on the other hand, can be interacted with. Like, on FPS, if you're facing a character/NPC talking, and you turn your view around, the sound pan and change according to your movement => HRTF audio interaction. 

[Nosfy]

Actually it is true. It's one of (if not only) 'true analog 7.1' in the sense that it got multiple drivers for each channels, and got their own inputs. Front channels go to front drivers accordingly, middle to middle, rear to rear, and so on. 

 

The problem is not that. The problem is, while it's true, is it beneficial or not? On which the general consensus is, it's not beneficial. 

 

Back to the main question, 'can I do better?' (assuming compared to the A50), of course you can. A wide range of better. Headphones run from below $100 to over $4000. Sennheiser Orpheus, what's regarded as 'THE best headphone in the world' is priced at around $30k (yep, 30 grand) for a used pair, not even a new one. This is just to give a general idea that the question of 'can I do better?' got really really wide variety of answers. 

 

Can I do better for similar price? £200.

[creatip123]

Can I do better for similar price? £200.

 

Lots of option there. HE-400 is very good in the open back category. They used to be on sale for $250, hard case included, which was really a good deal. Now it's back to $299 without a hard case. AKGs are also good.

 

In closed back, Sony MDR-1R or the newer version 1A is very good. 

 

There are a lot of other good options, but I just listed the ones I like. Shure, Sennheiser, Audio Technica, all are good audio brands. 

[watts300]

Because you have 2 ears not 5.1/7.1 ears. 

That's the most obtuse thing I've read all day.  You do realize that our brains are capable of hearing directional sound, don't you?  If your ears don't, you must have a hard time when you're outside, or knowing where to go when you hear emergency vehicles while driving, or any other myriad of things.  You should probably get that looked at by a medical doctor.  

 

Two speakers are very capable of simulating and producing different sound stages.  Different audio products have been doing it for years... home theater receivers, car audio head units, "sound bars", televisions, and of course headphones.  A large distance between the speakers and listener isn't necessary, but the closer they are the more precise the electronics need to be with tighter tolerances.  Some brand/products to it better than others, but it's a very functional feature.  

[Lays]

That's the most obtuse thing I've read all day.  You do realize that our brains are capable of hearing directional sound, don't you?  If your ears don't, you must have a hard time when you're outside, or knowing where to go when you hear emergency vehicles while driving, or any other myriad of things.  You should probably get that looked at by a medical doctor.  

 

Two speakers are very capable of simulating and producing different sound stages.  Different audio products have been doing it for years... home theater receivers, car audio head units, "sound bars", televisions, and of course headphones.  A large distance between the speakers and listener isn't necessary, but the closer they are the more precise the electronics need to be with tighter tolerances.  Some brand/products to it better than others, but it's a very functional feature.  

 

 

Except for the fact that a majority of these "true" 5.1/7.1 sound headphones have a bunch of shitty $1 drivers stuck inside of them, versus 2 proper drivers that have been tuned & measured by actual audio companies that have been making professional & "audiophile headphones" for decades.

 

The closer you put those drivers together and the closer they are to your ear, the more each driver interferes with eachothers sound & distorts things, and the harder your ears have a time of distinguishing where that sound actually came from.

If 2 more accurate, precise drivers can produce a giant soundstage and still accurately represent "directional" audio, I'd take that over little tiny crappy drivers in each earcup anyday.

[watts300]

Except for the fact that a majority of these "true" 5.1/7.1 sound headphones have a bunch of shitty $1 drivers stuck inside of them, versus 2 proper drivers that have been tuned & measured by actual audio companies that have been making professional & "audiophile headphones" for decades.

 

The closer you put those drivers together and the closer they are to your ear, the more each driver interferes with eachothers sound & distorts things, and the harder your ears have a time of distinguishing where that sound actually came from.

If 2 more accurate, precise drivers can produce a giant soundstage and still accurately represent "directional" audio, I'd take that over little tiny crappy drivers in each earcup anyday.

True.  I can't speak for multi-driver headphones.  I've never listened to any.  

 

But simulated surround is definitely a thing (and probably easier to make it a more "theater" sound than multi-driver headphones thanks to DSPs) and a lot of people's brains are properly "fooled" by it.   My head likes it.  

[SSL]

That's the most obtuse thing I've read all day.  You do realize that our brains are capable of hearing directional sound, don't you?  If your ears don't, you must have a hard time when you're outside, or knowing where to go when you hear emergency vehicles while driving, or any other myriad of things.  You should probably get that looked at by a medical doctor.  

 

Two speakers are very capable of simulating and producing different sound stages.  Different audio products have been doing it for years... home theater receivers, car audio head units, "sound bars", televisions, and of course headphones.  A large distance between the speakers and listener isn't necessary, but the closer they are the more precise the electronics need to be with tighter tolerances.  Some brand/products to it better than others, but it's a very functional feature.  

 

The whole point is that with TWO ears you are able to percieve spatial cues in sound. With ONE ear it is much more difficult. That is why multi-driver headsets are dumb, because cramming multiple drivers into one earcup is functionally no different han just having one driver producing surround via DSP.

 

You are correct that the distance between the speakers doesn't matter, which is also part of the point. The reason that surround is popular is because it is easier to achieve a consistent image with a larger number of speakers, allowing the listener to get good sound in a large range of listening positions - such as a movie theater. This becomes IRRELEVANT with headphones because the speakers are stuck to your head at all times.

 

That is why multi-driver headsets are a dumb gimmick.

 

Stereo Perception, Sound Localization

[creatip123]

True.  I can't speak for multi-driver headphones.  I've never listened to any.  

 

But simulated surround is definitely a thing (and probably easier to make it a more "theater" sound than multi-driver headphones thanks to DSPs) and a lot of people's brains are properly "fooled" by it.   My head likes it.  

 

The post you were commenting the first place talked about real surround.

 

- by default, 'surround' refer to real surround, while virtual/simulated surround is referred by, well, 'virtual surround'

- tiamat was mentioned, which is multiple drivers 'true surround' headset.

[watts300]

The post you were commenting the first place talked about real surround.

More accurately, I was commenting on the statement "Because you have 2 ears not 5.1/7.1 ears."   If that comparison was a good one, then my living room with 6 channels is useless because I have two ears.   

 

I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's a bit different.  

[creatip123]

More accurately, I was commenting on the statement "Because you have 2 ears not 5.1/7.1 ears."   If that comparison was a good one, then my living room with 6 channels is useless because I have two ears.   

 

I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's a bit different.  

 

Most probably a miscom then.

 

What I get from the post was particularly on 'why use 2 drivered headphones when you can have multiple drivered headphones?', to which that comment about 2 ears. 

 

In real life, we got sounds coming from 360 degree spherical direction. In surround multiple speakers configuration, the more the speakers the better, because the more accurate the positional audio perceiving, but of course it's diminishing return. Having something like 100 surrounding speakers setup will be more cost than benefits

[SSL]

Most probably a miscom then.

 

What I get from the post was particularly on 'why use 2 drivered headphones when you can have multiple drivered headphones?', to which that comment about 2 ears. 

 

In real life, we got sounds coming from 360 degree spherical direction. In surround multiple speakers configuration, the more the speakers the better, because the more accurate the positional audio perceiving, but of course it's diminishing return. Having something like 100 surrounding speakers setup will be more cost than benefits

 

Not necessary, remember that panning between two speakers will create a phantom image in between.

[ShearMe]

Not necessary, remember that panning between two speakers will create a phantom image in between.

 

I've always been interested in testing a system with a vertical axis set up, but I dunno if there's any recordings that would support those kinds of channels.

[SSL]

I've always been interested in testing a system with a vertical axis set up, but I dunno if there's any recordings that would support those kinds of channels.

 

Who needs channels.

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php

[ShearMe]

Who needs channels.

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say