Static in analog out, but only after a long time without it?

[Oktyabr]

Maybe that's a bad way to phrase the problem.  I boot my computer, listen to music, browse the web, watch netflix or youtube, fine for hours...  After a while though I get some static from the analog line outs (I haven't tried a USB dac or optical out yet).  This seems for some reason to be dependent on mouse movement and most often when I have a lot of tabs open in my browser (mostly chrome).  I can make it go away again by closing my browser, closing the music app (if applicable... Foobar 2000 for flac/mp3), or by rebooting/logging out and back in. 

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 motherboard*
2x8 GB G.Skill Sniper F3-1866C9D RAM
Rosewill Capstone 750w "80+ Gold" PSU
Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe*
Logitech MX1100 wireless laser mouse 
corded keyboard

*does this whether I use a line out from the motherboard sound chip or the sound card.  Both behave the same way.

I tend to run a lot of tabs in Chrome, sometimes a couple of dozen, so it might be a memory issue but the RAM tests fine and it doesn't seem to matter if I have three or four tabs open or over a dozen.  Wireless mouse?

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

[SSL]

Increase in the static when you move your mouse suggests some kind of EMI or other electrical interference, a pretty typical issue. The manifestation after several static-free hours is perplexing, though, and will make this very difficult to pinpoint. I guess I would first try a different mouse since that component seems to have the most obvious effect. Otherwise, this might be a good excuse to try an external DAC.

[Oktyabr]

​Thanks for the reply.  Believe me, this is NOT how I wanted to end up with externals!

Yeah, it's like it accumulates for several hours before it becomes audible.  Doesn't change in volume.  I've noticed that if I don't restart pretty much any/every open application on the desktop, usually Chrome and Foobar, that it will continue to get worse until I do.

The reason I associate it with the mouse is because moving the mouse, or even the mouse wheel, seems to agitate the static some.  I mean once the static begins it will continue without touching the mouse or doing anything else, but moving the mouse seems to shift the static a bit in correlation to the time of the movement.  

I've been building my own computers for almost 25 years (one every year or every other year usually) and I've never seen this before either. 



 

[SirRoderick]

Almost like it's temperature dependent or something, never heard about this before. If you DO ever figure it out let us know

[ShearMe]

Definitely EMI related. Best way to fix that is an external solution as SSL suggested.

[Oktyabr]

I would think it's my mouse but the mouse, speakers, and the headphone amp I use are all carry overs from previous builds.  None of them had this issue.  No one is more excited about having a "good" reason to buy an external dac (recommended, $100 or so?) than me, but this problem is really ticking me off.  

More testing is in order first, I think.  I need to see if the local brick and mortar has a corded mouse I can try first (I hate corded mice!  Wireless mouse and MS natural ergo keyboard for me.  Yeah, I know...)  Maybe pull the sound card completely and see how the motherboard behaves by itself?  Disconnect some case fans?  F*$#!  I thought the Sabertooth was supposed to be pretty EMI proof...  "military spec hardware" and all.  SSL, you don't have to say it...  Maybe the marketing department got me on this one

[SSL]

I would think it's my mouse but the mouse, speakers, and the headphone amp I use are all carry overs from previous builds.  None of them had this issue.  No one is more excited about having a "good" reason to buy an external dac (recommended, $100 or so?) than me, but this problem is really ticking me off.  

More testing is in order first, I think.  I need to see if the local brick and mortar has a corded mouse I can try first (I hate corded mice!  Wireless mouse and MS natural ergo keyboard for me.  Yeah, I know...)  Maybe pull the sound card completely and see how the motherboard behaves by itself?  Disconnect some case fans?  F*$#!  I thought the Sabertooth was supposed to be pretty EMI proof...  "military spec hardware" and all.  SSL, you don't have to say it...  Maybe the marketing department got me on this one

 

Perhaps. I think components have gotten a lot better in terms of EMI, but it's probably too much to hope that it can be eliminated entirely, especially when sensitive hardware is involved. For awhile I as getting a constant buzz from my E10 just by having it on a table with a metal frame.

 

I think process of elminination is probably the right strategy, if you have the patience. One thing at a time, starting with the mouse, then the soundcard, graphics card if you have one. Of course if the motherboard is responsible you can try disabling things - e.g. run with only your soundcard and disable the integrated via the UEFI.

 

As for DACs, you're of course going to need an amp as well to actually drive your phones. The Monoprice desktop amp+DAC unit is on sale from their website right now. Of the options under $100 it's by far the most powerful and capable.

[Oktyabr]

Perhaps. I think components have gotten a lot better in terms of EMI, but it's probably too much to hope that it can be eliminated entirely, especially when sensitive hardware is involved. For awhile I as getting a constant buzz from my E10 just by having it on a table with a metal frame.

 

I think process of elminination is probably the right strategy, if you have the patience. One thing at a time, starting with the mouse, then the soundcard, graphics card if you have one. Of course if the motherboard is responsible you can try disabling things - e.g. run with only your soundcard and disable the integrated via the UEFI.

 

As for DACs, you're of course going to need an amp as well to actually drive your phones. The Monoprice desktop amp+DAC unit is on sale from their website right now. Of the options under $100 it's by far the most powerful and capable.

I can hear my cell phone if I put it too close to the headphone cable... a bit of an audible buzz.  But it's nothing like this cumulative static that's troubling me.

Graphics card is an older unlocked, overclocked Sapphire HD6950 (6970 specs).

I run a lightly modded Creek OBH-11 (w/ aftermarket 24v linear regulated PS @ 500ma) for my amp.  It's served me very well for several years.  I might look at an integrated dac/amp but would be most interested in a very capable dac, first and foremost.  As long as my headphones work my speakers could sit there and do nothing and it would be fine with me.  For the same price as the Monoprice, is there a better dac I should consider?  I've been thinking going Modi2 or maybe ODAC but...

[SSL]

I can hear my cell phone if I put it too close to the headphone cable... a bit of an audible buzz.  But it's nothing like this cumulative static that's troubling me.

Graphics card is an older unlocked, overclocked Sapphire HD6950 (6970 specs).

I run a lightly modded Creek OBH-11 (w/ aftermarket 24v linear regulated PS @ 500ma) for my amp.  It's served me very well for several years.  I might look at an integrated dac/amp but would be most interested in a very capable dac, first and foremost.  As long as my headphones work my speakers could sit there and do nothing and it would be fine with me.  For the same price as the Monoprice, is there a better dac I should consider?  I've been thinking going Modi2 or maybe ODAC but...

 

Yeah, my E10 goes nuts if I get a phone call even within a couple feet.

 

If you have an amp already, you're pretty much looking at the Modi 2 or ODAC. In theory they should be better than the Monoprice, in practice I doubt you'd hear a difference. The Monoprice does have line and pre out if you wanted to get it and still use your amp.

[Oktyabr]

I *think* I found the problem!  The static doesn't usually exhibit itself until I've been listening to music (youtube, netflix, etc.) for several hours so I won't really be sure until it's made it at least 12 hours (?) in row without a problem, but it's been at least three or four hours without any static, so I'm feeling optimistic!

I use wifi for internet.  On this last build I decided to upgrade my old Zoom A/B/G USB WIFI dongle to one with "N" capability (I have an N capable router).  Limiting myself to products available locally I ended up with a Netgear N300 usb adapter.  I've had good luck with Netgear over the years (no reasons to complain) but maybe THIS one...  I don't normally like a bunch of extra cords in my workspace so typically I keep the wifi adapter plugged into either a front or rear slot on the case.  I stuck the N300 in the end of a 2m USB extension and placed it as far away from my computer as I could.  THIS seems to have eliminated the problem.

Sort of makes sense now, in retrospect.  Lots of tabs open, moving the mouse...  maybe the mouse and the wifi adapter were not playing nicely, placed so closely together?  Who knows...  

[SSL]

I *think* I found the problem!  The static doesn't usually exhibit itself until I've been listening to music (youtube, netflix, etc.) for several hours so I won't really be sure until it's made it at least 12 hours (?) in row without a problem, but it's been at least three or four hours without any static, so I'm feeling optimistic!

I use wifi for internet.  On this last build I decided to upgrade my old Zoom A/B/G USB WIFI dongle to one with "N" capability (I have an N capable router).  Limiting myself to products available locally I ended up with a Netgear N300 usb adapter.  I've had good luck with Netgear over the years (no reasons to complain) but maybe THIS one...  I don't normally like a bunch of extra cords in my workspace so typically I keep the wifi adapter plugged into either a front or rear slot on the case.  I stuck the N300 in the end of a 2m USB extension and placed it as far away from my computer as I could.  THIS seems to have eliminated the problem.

Sort of makes sense now, in retrospect.  Lots of tabs open, moving the mouse...  maybe the mouse and the wifi adapter were not playing nicely, placed so closely together?  Who knows...  

 

A happy ending. I hadn't thought of wireless since you were on a desktop, but it makes sense.

[Oktyabr]

A happy ending. I hadn't thought of wireless since you were on a desktop, but it makes sense.

Yeah, I never had a problem with any of my wifi in the past, usb or pci.  The netgear one in question actually came with the usb extension cord and a funny looking "stand" for it.  I assumed it was to place it somewhere where it got better reception...  not because of EMI problems having it plugged directly into one of the case USB.

Since my first "I think I found the problem" I've had music and/or videos playing all day long.  Almost 12 hours now.  Some foobar, some netflix, some youtube, more foobar... no problem!  Damn nice that I got to use a cable, that was actually included, to fix it, rather than shell out money on a new dac, when my machine has two available already!