How is onboard audio these days and from my motherboard?

[Guest]

Just asking, my motherboard is in my sig, Asrock Z77 Performance Fatal1ty.

 

I have a Sennheiser HD 558 but no soundcard or anything!

 

Should I get one? Or should I just upgrade the motherboard?

 

 

[MegaDave91]

Your motherboard is completely capable of powering them, but my amp makes my headphones sound a lot better. I need to use my amp with my DT990s anyway, otherwise they don't reach proper volumes.

[ZetZet]

It's fine.

[RelentlessAF]

You'd probably benefit more from an AMP or DAC as opposed to a sound card.

[Guest]

Wow, thanks. Thought it would be 'meh' at best because of the chipset.

[ZetZet]

Wow, thanks. Thought it would be 'meh' at best because of the chipset.

It will be meh. But you can notice all the mehs.

[Guest]

It will be meh. But you can notice all the mehs.

Wha....  :blink:

[theodoro]

There will be an improvement if you get a DAC/Amp but it's not worth it. It would be better if you already had better headphones. The value of amplifiers and DACs is pretty low if you ask me and it's not worth it in most cases.
If you do critical listening, then you could get a sound card, but if you just listen to music then the on-board is 85% as good as the better sound card.

[Guest]

There will be an improvement if you get a DAC/Amp but it's not worth it. It would be better if you already had better headphones. The value of amplifiers and DACs is pretty low if you ask me and it's not worth it in most cases.

If you do critical listening, then you could get a sound card, but if you just listen to music then the on-board is 85% as good as the better sound card.

Ow, okay! Nice answer.

 

Yeah, I know the HD's are overkill, but at the time I didn't care.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

Compared to a decent DAC and amplifier the sound from your motherboard isn't going to be impressive at all but you'll be out a good amount of money for a decent combo. If you don't actively desire better audio than you have already though I don't see much sense in spending more money. We're not the ones to tell you if you're satisfied or not, you are.

[Guest]

Compared to a decent DAC and amplifier the sound from your motherboard isn't going to be impressive at all but you'll be out a good amount of money for a decent combo. If you don't actively desire better sound than you have already though I don't see much sense in spending more money. We're not the ones to tell you if you're satisfied or not, you are.

Well I am not actively seeking it no, but maybe if I heard the difference I would be impressed and would go for it. 

[SSL]

There will be an improvement if you get a DAC/Amp but it's not worth it. It would be better if you already had better headphones. The value of amplifiers and DACs is pretty low if you ask me and it's not worth it in most cases.

If you do critical listening, then you could get a sound card, but if you just listen to music then the on-board is 85% as good as the better sound card.

 

In my experience it's more like 99%.

 

 

Well I am not actively seeking it no, but maybe if I heard the difference I would be impressed and would go for it. 

 

I've yet to be impressed by switching to a "better" amp or DAC. I have been impressed by switching headphones, though.

[ShearMe]

In my experience it's more like 99%.

 

99.99%

 

Who's hedging now?

[SSL]

99.99%

 

Who's hedging now?

 

Well, shit.

[theodoro]

In my experience it's more like 99%.

 

 

 

I've yet to be impressed by switching to a "better" amp or DAC. I have been impressed by switching headphones, though.

Yeah, ok. For some people it will make no difference. However, in some cases there will be a noticable difference and in some cases there will be a huge difference, but that's not always a good thing.

The sound quality improvement you'll get from a sound card depends to the music you listen to (genre and quality) , headphones, how do you listen to music and finally your ears.

But i have to agree at your last comment. It's hard to be impressed by a sound card. 

[Lays]

Compared to a decent DAC and amplifier the sound from your motherboard isn't going to be impressive at all but you'll be out a good amount of money for a decent combo. If you don't actively desire better audio than you have already though I don't see much sense in spending more money. We're not the ones to tell you if you're satisfied or not, you are.

 

 

Not true in every scenario, completely depends on the onboard solution.

 

It's extremely hard to tell any differences from my onboard versus my separate dac+ schiit Lyr.  The only major difference is the onboard gets loud enough to hurt my ears, and the Lyr gets loud enough to broadcast my music throughout the house practically.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

Not true in every scenario, completely depends on the onboard solution.

 

It's extremely hard to tell any differences from my onboard versus my separate dac+ schiit Lyr.  The only major difference is the onboard gets loud enough to hurt my ears, and the Lyr gets loud enough to broadcast my music throughout the house practically.

 

Absolutely. Not everyone can tell the difference between good and bad audio equipment. It should probably also be noted that what I mean when I say a decent DAC is not in the $100 range but rather the $1000 dollar range (second hand). My favorite so far is the Meridian 500 series DAC.

[SSL]

Absolutely. Not everyone can tell the difference between good and bad audio equipment.

 

So you're saying @Lays can't tell the difference and you can, right? Convenient.

 

It should probably also be noted that what I mean when I say a decent DAC is not in the $100 range but rather the $1000 dollar range (second hand). My favorite so far is the Meridian 500 series DAC.

 

Yep, because the more money you spend the better something will sound.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

So you're saying @Lays can't tell the difference and you can, right? Convenient.

 

 

Yep, because the more money you spend the better something will sound.

 

I absolutely think that yes, and I am without a doubt a subjectivist. Not because I think my hearing is better than everyone else's (although there is no question that my young ears pick up much higher frequencies than say my dad), but because I believe a hi-fi setup is a very personal thing. I don't care about measurements, what I care about is whether or not I like the sound that's being produced. If you need measurements to tell you if something is good why do you invest your money in this equipment anyways? You obviously can't tell the difference yourself. I'm not saying more expensive hardware is necessarily a better option, but this often tends to be the case.

[SSL]

I absolutely think that yes, and I am without a doubt a subjectivist. Not because I think my hearing is better than everyone else's (although there is no question that my young ears pick up much higher frequencies than say my dad), but because I believe a hi-fi setup is a very personal thing. I don't care about measurements, what I care about is whether or not I like the sound that's being produced. If you need measurements to tell you if something is good why do you invest your money in this equipment anyways? You obviously can't tell the difference yourself. I'm not saying more expensive hardware is necessarily a better option, but this often tends to be the case.

 

Objectivism is not about measurements, just removing bias.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

Objectivism is not about measurements, just removing bias.

 

But why would you remove bias? You are not looking to please anyone but yourself.

[BoredErica]

Absolutely. Not everyone can tell the difference between good and bad audio equipment. It should probably also be noted that what I mean when I say a decent DAC is not in the $100 range but rather the $1000 dollar range (second hand). My favorite so far is the Meridian 500 series DAC.

Hey Hans!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[h264]

But why would you remove bias? You are not looking to please anyone but yourself.

 

The argument for Objectivity is not merely a scientific basis (although it's a good place to start by grounding yourself in good methodology and testing for obvious problems), but also a consumerist argument.  

 

Say you really like beer.  A pretty basic tenant of microeconomics would say that for your demands to be fulfilled you'd want to consume as much beer as possible in order to fulfill your desire for beer.  However, you can only drink so much beer before the risks (mainly, forgetting where you are, waking up with some chick you don't know, or passing out in a gutter) start to outweigh the benefits.  So the question that you, as a consumer, must answer is how much is the NEXT bottle of beer worth to your happiness, and does that increase in personal happiness make sense given the cost.  Put another, way, for each beer you consume, you get less happiness from the next beer, and eventually, less.

 

So for audio, you want the best listening experience possible.  You see this newfangled amplifier/DAC contraption that your favorite charlatan audio company is releasing on Head-Fi.  It's around $1500.  You already own a pair of decent headphones and you plug them into your onboard audio card on your computer.  It's OK, and you don't notice any obvious flaws, but you think that audio company's product would look great on your desk and according to everyone on the forum sound AMAZING and "synergy" great with a $1000 pair of headphones.  So your question as a consumer is pretty simple if you cut through all the nonsense, does this audio setup you'd like to buy sound $2500 better than the one you have now?

 

So, you could measure.  Let's say it measures much better.  You might even be able to tell the difference between the two setups (headphones and AMP/DACs) in a blind test if you try really hard.  However, isn't the fact you have to do ALL that just to prove to YOURSELF that it's better make it seem a bit unlikely that your audio experience will really improve $2500 more?  I know this comes as something hard to swallow for dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles who will spare no expense to get the BEST sound, but perhaps your biases are not your friend in cases that do not involve bears in the woods and cliffs.

[Lays]

[Hans Christian | Teri]

Hey Hans!

 

How constructive.

 

The argument for Objectivity is not merely a scientific basis (although it's a good place to start by grounding yourself in good methodology and testing for obvious problems), but also a consumerist argument.  

 

Say you really like beer.  A pretty basic tenant of microeconomics would say that for your demands to be fulfilled you'd want to consume as much beer as possible in order to fulfill your desire for beer.  However, you can only drink so much beer before the risks (mainly, forgetting where you are, waking up with some chick you don't know, or passing out in a gutter) start to outweigh the benefits.  So the question that you, as a consumer, must answer is how much is the NEXT bottle of beer worth to your happiness, and does that increase in personal happiness make sense given the cost.  Put another, way, for each beer you consume, you get less happiness from the next beer, and eventually, less.

 

So for audio, you want the best listening experience possible.  You see this newfangled amplifier/DAC contraption that your favorite charlatan audio company is releasing on Head-Fi.  It's around $1500.  You already own a pair of decent headphones and you plug them into your onboard audio card on your computer.  It's OK, and you don't notice any obvious flaws, but you think that audio company's product would look great on your desk and according to everyone on the forum sound AMAZING and "synergy" great with a $1000 pair of headphones.  So your question as a consumer is pretty simple if you cut through all the nonsense, does this audio setup you'd like to buy sound $2500 better than the one you have now?

 

So, you could measure.  Let's say it measures much better.  You might even be able to tell the difference between the two setups (headphones and AMP/DACs) in a blind test if you try really hard.  However, isn't the fact you have to do ALL that just to prove to YOURSELF that it's better make it seem a bit unlikely that your audio experience will really improve $2500 more?  I know this comes as something hard to swallow for dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles who will spare no expense to get the BEST sound, but perhaps your biases are not your friend in cases that do not involve bears in the woods and cliffs.

 

It sounds like we're on the same page then? It's all about how much your experience improves (which is why I said measurements don't mean jack to me). If your experience doesn't noticeably improve then what's the point? How much said improvement is worth is entirely up to the individual which is why I said in my original post that if he wasn't dissatisfied with his current audio quality it might not be worth the hassle and money for him. I am an oldschool audiophile so obviously I am willing to cash out a little more for a better experience. That is, again, an experience that I think is better, not an experience someone else tells me is better or god forbid measuring equipment tells me is better.