Samsung Files Complaint with ITC to Block Nvidia Chips From US Markets

[tedjani]

this makes me sad

[Suika]

AFAIK samsung doest make any GPU designs

they use mali or adreno which is supplied by qualcomm or ARM

nvidia should have sued ARM instead

They're sueing Samsung for its money, and are probably assuming that ARM will realize that the precedent has been set in the court and will likely back off on its own call.

When you sue, you sue for the money. Stories like a woman sueing a waiter over spilling hot coffee on her? They don't sue the waitress, they sue the owner of the businesses, as high as they can go, for the largest possible settlement.

[mr moose]

 

 

They are a middle man guilty of making and selling illegal products. Again according to mr moose's point.

 

Well, for starters it's not so much a point, but more a supposition to illustrate to people one of the many possible ways this could play out.

 

The reason I harp mainly on this is because people keep trying to oversimplify the situation, the whole "defense of Samsung" case I am hearing from forum members rests on the presumption that Samsung are simply customers,  then arguments against my supposition also rest on the same assumption.  This type of case really could go anywhere, we don't have enough information to say one way or the other. 

 

 

 

 

According to your point TSMC should be sued too, cause they manufacture infringing Apple and any other ARM/Imagination Tech/Qualcomm SoCs.

 

I am not saying anyone should be sued, just thrashing out some of the possibilities as to why nvidia are.

 

I would say TSMC could be sued but only if Nvidia had contacted them and asked them to cease manufacturing on grounds that they are producing a product without license. In this case though, nvidia don't seem to be interested in anyone other than qualcomm and Samsung.  We know they already have a deal with Intel, so at the least another company has acknowledged that Nvidia own the IP in question.  Nividia did not contact TSMC nor did they contact sales distributors, so It is probably safe to assume for now that they are only interested in the design/end product manufacturing stage.

[Shahnewaz]

Samsung vs Nvidia and Velocity Micro: A Deeper Look :- http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/samsung-vs-nvidia-and-velocity-micro-a-deeper-look/

Credit: Stuckey at SemiAccurate Forums. (http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=225223&postcount=152)

 

This is a good article. Samsung hit Nvidia exactly as hard as Nvidia hit them.

[mr moose]

Samsung vs Nvidia and Velocity Micro: A Deeper Look :- http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/samsung-vs-nvidia-and-velocity-micro-a-deeper-look/

Credit: Stuckey at SemiAccurate Forums. (http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=225223&postcount=152)

 

This is a good article. Samsung hit Nvidia exactly as hard as Nvidia hit them.

 

Very good read that,  looks like they are suing on basically the same grounds as Nvidia.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if both sides drop the cases and sign an IP sharing deal.  Other wise it's going to take the courts years (or should) to go through each claim and determine it's legitimacy.

[marldorthegreat]

This would be good for AMD, they would have a chance to have a major expansion of their company for the first time

[Guest Kloaked]

Just that we don't overshoot the limit and jump to absurd/flaming conclusions, cause we don't know everything. :rolleyes:

 

That's the problem though. There's many people on the forum who jump to conclusions based on very little information, if any real information is given at all and point fingers at certain brands due to their preferences - the majority of people who call Nvidia patent trolls are AMD users ( I won't call them fanboys, but they act like it sometimes ).

 

[This has nothing to do with this thread, but] That same reason is why I don't like far-fetched rumors being posted in the news section because people pass along that information as if it was a fact to people who aren't in the know.

[LAwLz]

In your analogy, the driver in the getaway car is part of the design, the scheme of the robbery. He knew what was going on and actively took part. If TSMC actively attempting to steal and implement proprietary technology then yes, they would be guilty. As of now, they are simply the manufacturer. 

 

A better analogy would be TSMC is the taxi driver which the robbers chose as a form of transportation. Are you saying that the taxi driver should be held responsible for the actions of the robbers? Absurd. They are just doing their job.

Well they are actively helping Qualcomm to break the law by manufacturing it for them. If the taxi driver know that they are bank robbers then yes the taxi driver should be held responsible. With the lawsuit going on I don't think TSMC can say they didn't know, especially not if Nvidia were to contact them.

 

Anyway we now have the possibility of up to 7 companies that all have to pay Nvidia licensing fee whenever a phone is bought. Assuming that Nvidia's patents are valid, they win the case and contact everyone else about the infringements.

 

Qualcomm/other GPU designer -> TSMC/other fab -> Phone manufacturer -> store selling through Amazon -> Amazon themselves -> your credit card company -> you

 

It's ridiculous.

[mr moose]

Well they are actively helping Qualcomm to break the law by manufacturing it for them. If the taxi driver know that they are bank robbers then yes the taxi driver should be held responsible. With the lawsuit going on I don't think TSMC can say they didn't know, especially not if Nvidia were to contact them.

 

Anyway we now have the possibility of up to 7 companies that all have to pay Nvidia licensing fee whenever a phone is bought. Assuming that Nvidia's patents are valid, they win the case and contact everyone else about the infringements.

 

Qualcomm/other GPU designer -> TSMC/other fab -> Phone manufacturer -> store selling through Amazon -> Amazon themselves -> your credit card company -> you

 

It's ridiculous.

 

I wouldn't worry too much,  not yet anyway.  There are patents for just about everything we think is royalty free (switch mode PSUs for example).  I can't see the end result of all this being a financial issue for the end consumer because neither samsung nor nvidia want to risk losing sales due to increases RRP.   This is of course just me being optimistic.

[The_Strict_Nein]

Well they are actively helping Qualcomm to break the law by manufacturing it for them. If the taxi driver know that they are bank robbers then yes the taxi driver should be held responsible. With the lawsuit going on I don't think TSMC can say they didn't know, especially not if Nvidia were to contact them.

 

Anyway we now have the possibility of up to 7 companies that all have to pay Nvidia licensing fee whenever a phone is bought. Assuming that Nvidia's patents are valid, they win the case and contact everyone else about the infringements.

 

Qualcomm/other GPU designer -> TSMC/other fab -> Phone manufacturer -> store selling through Amazon -> Amazon themselves -> your credit card company -> you

 

It's ridiculous.

 

Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope 

 

New argument, please?

[bogus]

Samsung vs Nvidia and Velocity Micro: A Deeper Look :- http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/samsung-vs-nvidia-and-velocity-micro-a-deeper-look/

Credit: Stuckey at SemiAccurate Forums. (http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=225223&postcount=152)

 

This is a good article. Samsung hit Nvidia exactly as hard as Nvidia hit them.

Great read. They pin-point it really well, and mention some stuff that was already said by some of us here.

[LAwLz]

I wouldn't worry too much,  not yet anyway.  There are patents for just about everything we think is royalty free (switch mode PSUs for example).  I can't see the end result of all this being a financial issue for the end consumer because neither samsung nor nvidia want to risk losing sales due to increases RRP. This is of course just me being optimistic.

I am not really worried about prices increasing. I am just sick and tired of patents in general. The idea of Nvidia being able to double dip from their patent makes me double sick of it.

 

 

Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope Slippery slope 

 

New argument, please?

How is that a slippery slope argument? I am not saying "it is bad because this might happen!". I am saying "look how ridiculous Nvidia's logic is".

If Qualcomm is infringing their patent then go after Qualcomm. Don't go after someone who just uses Qualcomm parts. Make a licensing agreement with Qualcomm, not Qualcomm + everyone who profits from Qualcomm's parts.

[mr moose]

I am not really worried about prices increasing. I am just sick and tired of patents in general. The idea of Nvidia being able to double dip from their patent makes me double sick of it.

 

 

How is that a slippery slope argument? I am not saying "it is bad because this might happen!". I am saying "look how ridiculous Nvidia's logic is".

If Qualcomm is infringing their patent then go after Qualcomm. Don't go after someone who just uses Qualcomm parts. Make a licensing agreement with Qualcomm, not Qualcomm + everyone who profits from Qualcomm's parts.

 

I didn't interpret what Nvidia is doing as double dipping.  Although we have no information I was of the impression they are only seeking license fees from either qualcomm or Samsung but they are taking both to court because neither are paying.  Have Nvidia released a specific list of demands/requests?

[LAwLz]

I didn't interpret what Nvidia is doing as double dipping.  Although we have no information I was of the impression they are only seeking license fees from either qualcomm or Samsung but they are taking both to court because neither are paying.  Have Nvidia released a specific list of demands/requests?

I have not read the court document that thoroughly but to me it seems like they are want Qualcomm and Samsung to pay a combined sum to them. That is double dipping to me since it might just be one check, but the money is coming from two sources. I don't really see how and why Nvidia would drop their charges against Qualcomm if Samsung alone paid them. If that ends up happening what would happen if Nvidia went after HTC? Would HTC also have to pay? I don't see any reason why Nvidia wouldn't be able to double dip if Samsung ends up having to pay any money. Even if Nvidia ends up satisfied with just getting paid by Samsung, I still think it's wrong that they even have the possibility of double dipping if they so desired.

 

What should happen is that Qualcomm should have to pay (if the patents are legit) and then all manufacturers using Qualcomm chips should be safe. I don't see why Samsung is getting dragged into this at all.

[The_Evenger]

I'm not the biggest fan for NVidia, but WTF Samsung? if for whatever reason NVidia couldn't sell cards in the US ATI could set the price to whatever they want!

I mean Intel isn't competitive in the high end.

[TheDudeWhoTriesHard]

At some point, in the end, if Samsung does win the Lawsuit, that would piss off alot of people who are benefiting from Nvidia. Prolly ranging from people who use Quadros and Teslas to people who use GTX cards. If not them, the least that they'd piss off is Nvidia.

[bogus]

snip

You forgot to mention precedents - it would meant lawsuits over IP would start to leak down the chain.

Imagine a manufacturer that might be infringing a patent and a entity uses that to enforce licensing or to block the devices of a competitor that gets parts from such supplier - anywhere down the chain.

That's why I hope this doesn't get settled by a licensing exchange, it would be ridiculous. The court should simply dismiss this crap, to get Velocity Micro and Samsung out of this shameless whale hunting.

[mr moose]

I have not read the court document that thoroughly but to me it seems like they are want Qualcomm and Samsung to pay a combined sum to them. That is double dipping to me since it might just be one check, but the money is coming from two sources. I don't really see how and why Nvidia would drop their charges against Qualcomm if Samsung alone paid them. If that ends up happening what would happen if Nvidia went after HTC? Would HTC also have to pay? I don't see any reason why Nvidia wouldn't be able to double dip if Samsung ends up having to pay any money. Even if Nvidia ends up satisfied with just getting paid by Samsung, I still think it's wrong that they even have the possibility of double dipping if they so desired.

 

What should happen is that Qualcomm should have to pay (if the patents are legit) and then all manufacturers using Qualcomm chips should be safe. I don't see why Samsung is getting dragged into this at all.

 

I imagine like most licensing deals it will be a one off fee or a per unit fee, ergo Nvidia only get paid once per unit or per production run. Even though they are taking them both to court it doesn't neccessarily mean they are asking to be paid for the same unit by two different companies.  And I definitely cant see the courts granting such a request (that would be absurd).    If it doesn't get settled out of court my money is on their being an arrangement like what they have with Intel.  Either paid by Qualcomm or by each device manufacturer using the IP.

 

 

You forgot to mention precedents - it would meant lawsuits over IP would start to leak down the chain.

Imagine a manufacturer that might be infringing a patent and a entity uses that to enforce licensing or to block the devices of a competitor that gets parts from such supplier - anywhere down the chain.

That's why I hope this doesn't get settled by a licensing exchange, it would be ridiculous. The court should simply dismiss this crap, to get Velocity Micro and Samsung out of this shameless whale hunting.

 

Even if the courts went solely in the favor of Nvidia, the only precedent that would be set would be that no company would have the right to profit from someone else's IP without permission.  And that, if I have my information right, will be just as bad for Nvidia as for anyone else because nvidia devices use other companies IP just like the rest.

[Sonefiler]

Holy shit, and the only one seeking a huge opportunity for AMD? This is the best fixing chance for them to get into mobile! While all the phone manufacturers can't use Qualcomm and hate Nvidia.

[Paul_VB]

IDK who to blame here, but if either company wins i'll be kinda sad. i for one really like Samsung phones (just got a new Galaxy S5, so if Samsung looses at least i have a flagship phone to use for the next few years)

 

As for the threat to ban all nvidia devices... if that includes gpus (which it probably will) i'll be pretty pissed. even though i kinda lean more towards AMD, i don't hate nvidia. having just 1 graphics card manufacturer available in the US means higher prices and lower performance. Competition is never a bad thing for us consumers.

 

 

also, First post on page 7! i am now the king of the 7th page

[holytoledo]

I've used a number of them in the 50-65" range, and the picture is meh. As I noted in an earlier post, there's a swedish boutique maker of premium plasma screens, and they're beautiful while also having amazing sound.

 

It does have color control but I won't argue that it can compare to some premium boutique screen maker since I've never even heard of...who?

[patrickjp93]

It does have color control but I won't argue that it can compare to some premium boutique screen maker since I've never even heard of...who?

Like I said above there's an episode of one of those "How it's made" type of shows where I heard of them. I'm actually itching to find it again.

[Techhog]

Oh fuck off Samsung. Your phones suck. Your tablets suck. Your RAM is mediocre. Your TVs are meh. Your SSDs are pretty great. Get rid of the shit you suck at, and stick to what you don't.

I have to disagree partially on the phones and tablets. The actual devices are good, but the software is terrible.

 

 

What the heck? First Apple now NVIDIA! Get a life Samsung!

I guess by "get a life", you mean that Samsung shouldn't have bothered countersuing and should have just lest Apple and Nvidia get them banned?

[AHaskin14]

Usually things like this do nothing but boost sales because people think it might actually happen. Good luck getting a 900 series now.

[holytoledo]

Like I said above there's an episode of one of those "How it's made" type of shows where I heard of them. I'm actually itching to find it again.

 

If you do find out let me know. It would be cool to learn what makes their tvs better.

 

Could it be People of Lava? http://www.peopleoflava.com/