People with Sennheiser HD 558s that listen to electronic music: do you like em?

[rambi36]

I know that these headphones are supposed to sound pretty good and be pretty comfortable, but I want to know from you guys if they sound well for the type of music I listen to mostly: Electronic

[Excon]

I like them, there are better options out there but not really for the same price. Bass is kinda lacking but its still good

[ROK]

I've used them and they are not very enjoyable for listening to EDM.

[AMICLG]

I have the Hd 518 which are bassier than the 558 and they kinda lack in bass so you'd probably want something else if that's your main genre of music but they're great for orchestral music and most movies.

[Hecknologist]

I really like my 558's but for more bass-oriented music I'd suggest closed headphones. You lose the wide sound stage but gain big emphasis on the low end. Great for the "Doof Doof"

Edit: I have a lot of music from when I had only cheap, gaming headsets (plantronics gamecom 777, razer electra etc) and when I listen to it with my 558's it's like a different song altogether as you hear so much more, especially the mids. I really do recommend trying them regardless of music taste. 

[rambi36]

I've used them and they are not very enjoyable for listening to EDM.

I have the Hd 518 which are bassier than the 558 and they kinda lack in bass so you'd probably want something else if that's your main genre of music but they're great for orchestral music and most movies.

I really like my 558's but for more bass-oriented music I'd suggest closed headphones. You lose the wide sound stage but gain big emphasis on the low end. Great for the "Doof Doof"

So what would you guys recommend in this price range? I'm not really a huge bass-head and I would want a good sound stage for my gaming needs

[rambi36]

@Lanoi I know you have em

[Juganog]

I have them and they seem to be good for ENM and electronic and what not not super bass heavy

[creatip123]

Dunno the budget (the price of 558), but if you got $300 to spend, I'd recommend Hifiman HE-400. It might need a separate amp though.

[ShearMe]

If you want a cheap option, get an HD 439, and do the bass mod. T'will knock your socks off.

[BoredErica]

Dunno the budget (the price of 558), but if you got $300 to spend, I'd recommend Hifiman HE-400. It might need a separate amp though.

HE400 is not efficient at all. This is one of the cases where I would really push for an amp or not bother with the headphone. People argue with me that the Game Zero, HD600, etc are best with an amp when the HE400 should be far harder to drive. The HE400 should require 2.5 times the amount of power the HD800 needs. The HE400s need an amp to prevent clipping and other distortions. Just because you can hit loud enough volume with knob cranked to max doesn't mean the amp hasn't clipped yet.

[creatip123]

HE400 is not efficient at all. This is one of the cases where I would really push for an amp or not bother with the headphone. People argue with me that the Game Zero, HD600, etc are best with an amp when the HE400 should be far harder to drive. The HE400 should require 2.5 times the amount of power the HD800 needs. The HE400s need an amp to prevent clipping and other distortions. Just because you can hit loud enough volume with knob cranked to max doesn't mean the amp hasn't clipped yet.

 

Ummm yeah, HE400 needs more juice than average headphone of its class, but OP didn't say anything about looking for an efficient headphone, or headphone that absolutely do not require a separate amp. That's why I wrote, might require an amp, so the OP got some idea of 'what he's dealing with', should he decided to go with HE400.

 

What I do know is, HE400 is very good for electronic dance musics and dubsteps. 

[BoredErica]

My point is I think it's more than likely that an amp is required, not just maybe. Whoever is thinking about this headphone needs to act as if they need to buy an amp. So ye.

[creatip123]

My point is I think it's more than likely that an amp is required, not just maybe. Whoever is thinking about this headphone needs to act as if they need to buy an amp. So ye.

 

My ipad's built-in amp certainly can't push it far enough, only got 70-80% of desired. I've heard that Samsung and Nexus got more powerful built-in amps that might be able to drive it well, never tried them though. I'll try it when I got the chance.

 

I'd imagine the newer ROG mobo's onboards should be able to drive it, but never had one to be sure.

[BoredErica]

My ipad's built-in amp certainly can't push it far enough, only got 70-80% of desired. I've heard that Samsung and Nexus got more powerful built-in amps that might be able to drive it well, never tried them though. I'll try it when I got the chance.

 

I'd imagine the newer ROG mobo's onboards should be able to drive it, but never had one to be sure.

It can get loud enough doesn't mean it can get loud enough without distortions like clipping. When you have to crank it to max, there really should be clipping present. HE400 requires less voltage than HD800s, but is in line with Game Zeros in voltage required, yet requires quite a bit more current. I don't get how people can be iffy about Game Zeros on onboard yet feel fine with HE400s with onboard when the Game Zeros are easier to drive. Surely if HE400s are ok onboard than so are 90% of all other headphones? Or is the reason that many onboards are much weaker at giving the required amount of voltage than current?

 

And just to prevent any misunderstanding, I'm not arguing with you. I ask many questions about anything I think is in conflict with what I know. Look at my question threads at HA, they are at 230 posts!

[Valhallatier]

i prefer close back headphone for electronic or dubstep.

[creatip123]

It can get loud enough doesn't mean it can get loud enough without distortions like clipping. When you have to crank it to max, there really should be clipping present. HE400 requires less voltage than HD800s, but is in line with Game Zeros in voltage required, yet requires quite a bit more current. I don't get how people can be iffy about Game Zeros on onboard yet feel fine with HE400s with onboard when the Game Zeros are easier to drive. Surely if HE400s are ok onboard than so are 90% of all other headphones? Or is the reason that many onboards are much weaker at giving the required amount of voltage than current?

 

And just to prevent any misunderstanding, I'm not arguing with you. I ask many questions about anything I think is in conflict with what I know. Look at my question threads at HA, they are at 230 posts!

 

Well I don't think I got the complete image yet, still gathering all the pieces together to form a complete image of understanding. What I have so far is this:

 

There are 2 amping parts in an amp, the voltage amping part, and the current amping part. In a bigger setup, this 2 parts are usually separated into the pre-amp (amping voltage) and power-amp (amping current). The pre-amp is usually placed near the source, and the power amp near the speakers. This placement is supposed to minimize noises that the cable could pick up. 

 

Well, for convenience, and other reasons, most amps (and most likely all headphone amps) integrated these 2 parts in 1 casing.

 

From the point above, I imagine there are a few possible cases of an amp. Let's say there are 2 amps, A and B. 

 

- Amp A got good ratio on the current amping part, but small ratio on the voltage amping part. Meaning it can't go very high in the output voltage. The voltage might not be very effective to overcome a high load impedance, say a 600 ohms headphone. On the other hand, for low impedance and low efficiency headphones like the HE400, amp A should work quite well. 

 

- Amp B got good ratio on the voltage amping part, but small ratio on the current amping part. Meaning it got enough voltage to overcome big impedance headphones, but can't maintain big current flows. I'd imagine amp B would work well with high impedance and high efficiency headphones, but struggling a bit for low impedance and low efficiency headphones. I suspect this is the case of what happened when I plug my HE400 to my Xonar DG. The volume can get quite loud, but the distortions (the volume sways, normal - low/quiet - normal - low, and so on) are very annoying. 

 

Of course the best one would be amp C, with good ratio on both the current and voltage amping part. And consequently the worst would be amp D, with bad ratio on both the current and voltage amping part. Amp D would make a good paper weight, though....

 

So, in my understanding (so far) amp A should be good for something like the HE400 (35ohms, 93dB (dunno per Vrms or mW)), but maybe struggling a bit for HD800, that although got a whooping 102dB/V sensitivity, but also got quite high impedance, 300 ohms. Amp A might not be able to produce high enough voltage to properly overcome the 300 ohms resistance

 

Amp B is the opposite of amp A, should be good for something like HD800, because it got high enough voltage to overcome the 300 ohms resistance, and the HD800 doesn't need a big supply of current anyway, with its 102dB/V. On the other hand, it might be struggling for something like HE400 that don't require a high voltage (because of the low impedance), but in return, require quite big amount of stable currents, due to its low efficiency. 

 

Again, this is my understanding so far. I feel like there are other things that I'm still missing to get a whole picture of the concept, so it's highly possible that my understanding still miss the mark a bit...

[CartertheCOCguy]

get the VModa crossfade LP's or M100s

[BoredErica]

Well I don't think I got the complete image yet, still gathering all the pieces together to form a complete image of understanding. What I have so far is this:

 

There are 2 amping parts in an amp, the voltage amping part, and the current amping part. In a bigger setup, this 2 parts are usually separated into the pre-amp (amping voltage) and power-amp (amping current). The pre-amp is usually placed near the source, and the power amp near the speakers. This placement is supposed to minimize noises that the cable could pick up. 

 

Well, for convenience, and other reasons, most amps (and most likely all headphone amps) integrated these 2 parts in 1 casing.

 

From the point above, I imagine there are a few possible cases of an amp. Let's say there are 2 amps, A and B. 

 

- Amp A got good ratio on the current amping part, but small ratio on the voltage amping part. Meaning it can't go very high in the output voltage. The voltage might not be very effective to overcome a high load impedance, say a 600 ohms headphone. On the other hand, for low impedance and low efficiency headphones like the HE400, amp A should work quite well. 

 

- Amp B got good ratio on the voltage amping part, but small ratio on the current amping part. Meaning it got enough voltage to overcome big impedance headphones, but can't maintain big current flows. I'd imagine amp B would work well with high impedance and high efficiency headphones, but struggling a bit for low impedance and low efficiency headphones. I suspect this is the case of what happened when I plug my HE400 to my Xonar DG. The volume can get quite loud, but the distortions (the volume sways, normal - low/quiet - normal - low, and so on) are very annoying. 

 

Of course the best one would be amp C, with good ratio on both the current and voltage amping part. And consequently the worst would be amp D, with bad ratio on both the current and voltage amping part. Amp D would make a good paper weight, though....

 

So, in my understanding (so far) amp A should be good for something like the HE400 (35ohms, 93dB (dunno per Vrms or mW)), but maybe struggling a bit for HD800, that although got a whooping 102dB/V sensitivity, but also got quite high impedance, 300 ohms. Amp A might not be able to produce high enough voltage to properly overcome the 300 ohms resistance

 

Amp B is the opposite of amp A, should be good for something like HD800, because it got high enough voltage to overcome the 300 ohms resistance, and the HD800 doesn't need a big supply of current anyway, with its 102dB/V. On the other hand, it might be struggling for something like HE400 that don't require a high voltage (because of the low impedance), but in return, require quite big amount of stable currents, due to its low efficiency. 

 

Again, this is my understanding so far. I feel like there are other things that I'm still missing to get a whole picture of the concept, so it's highly possible that my understanding still miss the mark a bit...

Maybe you're right, that onboard has quite a lot of trouble dealing with high impedance headphones and perform relatively well with low impedance, current hungry headphones. But either way the HE400s have lower sensitivity and efficiency than the Game Zero. I don't understand how the Zero needs an amp but the HE400 is a maybe.

HE400 is 93db/mw, I double-checked with Inner Fidelity.  The HD800 would be much harder to drive voltage wise and the HE400 would be much harder to drive current wise. From what I've seen, an amp can deliver more close to its normal max voltage at higher impedances and deliver more amps at lower impedances. 

[pas008]

fischer fa-003 clones if $100 us budget

neutral closed and does positional well if you play fps

[creatip123]

Maybe you're right, that onboard has quite a lot of trouble dealing with high impedance headphones and perform relatively well with low impedance, current hungry headphones. But either way the HE400s have lower sensitivity and efficiency than the Game Zero. I don't understand how the Zero needs an amp but the HE400 is a maybe.

HE400 is 93db/mw, I double-checked with Inner Fidelity.  The HD800 would be much harder to drive voltage wise and the HE400 would be much harder to drive current wise. From what I've seen, an amp can deliver more close to its normal max voltage at higher impedances and deliver more amps at lower impedances. 

 

If from me, I won't say Game Zero needs an amp, or at the worst case, just a 'maybe' (with the possibility of older mobo's onboard). My understanding is, onboards are more likely to be the amp A type (in my example), where it got high output voltage, but just so-so current supply. Now I don't know if the current supply is dependent on the PSU or not (higher wattage PSU ~ higher current supply from onboard), as I've never used a high power PSU, 500W only. 

 

The reason why I suspect onboards to be like amp A type is because the brands are racing on 'our amp can drive whooping x hundred ohms headphones', hence I think they're raising to push the voltage higher and higher, but never said anything about how many ampere or how many watts it can spew out....

[BoredErica]

If from me, I won't say Game Zero needs an amp, or at the worst case, just a 'maybe' (with the possibility of older mobo's onboard). My understanding is, onboards are more likely to be the amp A type (in my example), where it got high output voltage, but just so-so current supply. Now I don't know if the current supply is dependent on the PSU or not (higher wattage PSU ~ higher current supply from onboard), as I've never used a high power PSU, 500W only. 

 

The reason why I suspect onboards to be like amp A type is because the brands are racing on 'our amp can drive whooping x hundred ohms headphones', hence I think they're raising to push the voltage higher and higher, but never said anything about how many ampere or how many watts it can spew out....

If many onboard amps lately can dish out more voltage that just means there's a higher chance the HE400 needs an external amp. However, I don't think the whole "our amp can drive 600ohm headphones" marketing slogan means the amps can deliver relatively high amounts of voltage. Just a way of saying our amp can power more headphones because that's what everybody thinks makes a headphone harder to drive and the only spec they know.