Nvidia Vows to Support AMD's Alternative to G-Sync - Adaptive Sync Gets Green Light

[Nineshadow]

Freesync is the driver support to control the VBlank timings. The reason why some AMD cards do not fully support Freesync, is because the gfx display controller is not capable. But all graphics cards have such a chip on them. Only the newer AMD GPU's and APU's have such a controller. There is no such thing as a Freesync module. Only G-sync has a module, which is a mini computer replacing the monitor display controlle (scaler). 

 

With the exception of the 2-way handshake at computer startup/display connection, Adaptive Sync/free sync is a 1-way communication, where the graphics card sends frames within the supported hz rate of the monitor, thus telling the monitor when to display a frame.

Then why don't all monitors with Adaptive Sync support Freesync?And why does it actually cost to implement it if it's just a driver?

[Notional]

Then why don't all monitors with Adaptive Sync support Freesync?And why does it actually cost to implement it if it's just a driver?

It doesn't. All Adaptive Sync monitors can be used by Freesync (where did you hear otherwise?). It does not cost anything to implement on AMD graphicscards per se. Drivers will cost money to make, but are free for all AMD users. What costs money is the Display controller, that is on the monitor itself. It needs to be designed to support variable synced framerates, in the Adaptive Sync standard. Those monitor display controllers (aka scalers), costs a little more to make, and are what we are waiting for right now to be launched. However we don't know IF Adaptive Sync monitors will carry a pric premium, and if so, how much.

[Nineshadow]

It doesn't. All Adaptive Sync monitors can be used by Freesync (where did you hear otherwise?). It does not cost anything to implement on AMD graphicscards per se. Drivers will cost money to make, but are free for all AMD users. What costs money is the Display controller, that is on the monitor itself. It needs to be designed to support variable synced framerates, in the Adaptive Sync standard. Those monitor display controllers (aka scalers), costs a little more to make, and are what we are waiting for right now to be launched. However we don't know IF Adaptive Sync monitors will carry a pric premium, and if so, how much.

It's said that not all Adaptive Sync monitors support Freesync.

That's what I recall though.

[Notional]

It's said that not all Adaptive Sync monitors support Freesync.

That's what I recall though.

It is only an Adaptive Sync monitor if it supports the Adaptive Sync standard in Displayport. Freesync is made to use this support, this Freesync supports all Adaptive Sync monitors. If anyone claims otherwise, they are mistaken.

[Nineshadow]

It is only an Adaptive Sync monitor if it supports the Adaptive Sync standard in Displayport. Freesync is made to use this support, this Freesync supports all Adaptive Sync monitors. If anyone claims otherwise, they are mistaken.

I literally didn't understand anything you said.

[patrickjp93]

 

 

 

At least DVI has the fact that the connector can be screwed on firmly going for it.

No, 2 DVI connectors take up as much real estate as 3 DP or HDMI connectors.

[dalekphalm]

VGA is to support businesses that refuse to upgrade their computer hardware more than once every 20 years, DVI is a "safe" bet that somebody's graphics card with have it. We have to tolerate HDMI because for some arcane reason things like consoles, DVD players and satellite set-top boxes are still shipping with that connector.

If HD-BluRay with 4k content becomes main-stream HDMI should die out though, what with not supporting the bitrate required by that resolution and framerate.

Yeah you're gonna be waiting a long time for that to happen HDMI 2.0 supports 4K 60Hz, and many newer 4K monitors are shipping with HDMI 2.0 now. HDMI 2.0 was released in September of last year.

 

I always shake my head when people think that FreeSync means it's free, or implies that it's free.

It doesn't, at all. It's just your hopeful thoughts.

Maybe it means 'free to vary the frame refresh', or 'free from a fixed frame rate'?

It means free as in Royalty free. There is no licence cost or fee associated with building or implementing FreeSync because it uses the Royalty Free Adaptive Sync DP 1.2a standard. This means potentially cheaper implementation. The only cost to the manufacturers is the original R&D costs for creating the new DP 1.2a Adaptive Sync compatible Scaler. Once those R&D costs are recouped, there should be little or no additional  materials cost. In essence, the new Adaptive Sync scaler should cost the same - physically/materials wise - to manufacture compared to the old scalers. The only addition in cost would come from the time and cost of R&D.

 

Of course, there is some conjecture being made here. We won't know for certain until we see production ready monitors, and we see what the new scalers actually cost to make.

 

HDMI 2.0 does support it, so you're stuck with it existing.

Yup, what you said.

[MonkeyFace]

Lower prices and now this.

 

Well then...I guess I'm going back to the Green team

[El_indian]

The inputlag spikes when the game outputs more frames than the monitor can handle. The monitor used can handle 144hz, but it derps at 143 as well. Not sure if that is the game derping or what. But you can see the inputlag dropping a lot, when the game is limited to 120hz rendering.

G-sync introduces more input lag than no g-sync, because of its overcomplicated 2way communication and 750MB monitor ram buffer thing. Another reason Adaptive Sync should be better (we will see). The difference is very small, so it should not prove a big problem, but there is an issue here.

http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

 

For most people, this will never be an issue in a 144hz monitor. But when we get Adaptive Sync for 60hz monitors, this can be an issue, so it will be interesting to see how AS deals with this.

 

huh, i actually do remember reading that now. blurbusters are top.

 

Yeah slightly higher input lag, I assume it won't be felt too much by the player. As a non-competitive single player kinda guy, it won't put me off buying a G-Sync monitor, but yeah it is an issue. 

 

Have they input lag with a 60Hz G-Sync panel? 

 

Edit: Just re-read the review (it's so good!) 

 

It should be noted that the latency (although higher than VSYNC OFF) was still extremely low overall. It was ~10-15ms lower than the Crysis 3 test - a game where they're not maxing out the frame rate of the monitor. 

 

A work around was to set the max frame rate (fps_max=120).

 

As the author and others have discussed the comments - more tests could be run.

[Brainless906]

AMD: "freesync...."  LTTF: "BOOOOOOO, gsync is the best and this is crap! It'll never be good!"

 

Nvidia: "....freesync......"   LTTF: "WOOOOOOO, our lord and savior nvidia supports an awesome technology! Good job nvidia!"

 

kek.

[cesrai]

Holy shit people

Adaptive-sync =/= freesync

Why can nobody understand this...

Will I do, I think it's mostly because of fanboys and stupidity.

[cesrai]

AMD: "freesync...."  LTTF: "BOOOOOOO, gsync is the best and this is crap! It'll never be good!"

 

Nvidia: "....freesync......"   LTTF: "WOOOOOOO, our lord and savior nvidia supports an awesome technology! Good job nvidia!"

 

kek.

Actually it's adaptive sync and AMD doesn't own it it will be implanted in DP 1.2a

[cesrai]

Yes,Adaptive Sync was a feature in eDP.

"VESA sends word today that they have done just that with the latest update to the DisplayPort 1.2a standard. Adaptive-Sync (not to be confused with NVIDIA’s Adaptive V-Sync), the eDP feature that allows for variable refresh monitors, has been added to the DisplayPort 1.2a standard as an optional feature"

The only thing it did do in eDP was,for example,lower the refresh rate to 30Hz when you're in desktop mode or something,for extended battery life.

Freesync,on the other hand,calculates (aproximates) the frames per second your GPU is outputting and sends that data to the Adaptive Sync chip/whatever it is , which in turn changes the monitor's refresh late. 

 

Adaptive Sync works by changing the VBLANK value,hence variable VBLANK.

VBLANK = the time difference between the last line of one frame and the beginning of the first line of the next frame.

 

eDP came out in 2008.I don't think AMD has been working on Freesync even before that.

Fanboys and stupidity dude it's so common, and freesync is AMD implementation to use adaptive vsync, not for you but the guy you are responding to.

[cesrai]

 

I mean fanboys man and the stupidity in the topic, freesync=/=adaptive vsync  not the Nvidia adaptive vsync, freesync is AMD implementation to use adaptive vsync in DP 1.2a.

[cesrai]

Lets just wait a bit until freesync monitors are actually out and we actually have nvidia support for them.

 

( Oh and a shitload of screen manufacturers picking up freesync is the only reason nvidia are doing this )

It's called adaptive vsync and AMD doesn't own it and it's implemented in DP 1.2a, freesynce is AMD implementation to use adaptive vsync.

[PopReference]

*cut for ref*

....freesync=/=adaptive vsync...

I'm sick of this, stop trying to correct people, there's no point. Name branding that comes out first almost always ends up as the label, deal with it.

 

Just think of Band-Aids, Q-tips, or Kleenex ALL brand names not the actual names of the products, would you correct someone for asking for an one of these things?

[cesrai]

I'm sick of this, stop trying to correct people, there's no point. Name branding that comes out first almost always ends up as the label, deal with it.

 

Just think of Band-Aids, Q-tips, or Kleenex ALL brand names not the actual names of the products, would you correct someone for asking for an one of these things?

They fucking think AMD owns this fucking shit, it's been out in 2008.

[PopReference]

They fucking think AMD owns this fucking shit, it's been out in 2008.

Don't care, it's not relevant in this case. Nvidia doesn't need your positive PR, they can pay for their own.

[LAwLz]

I'm sick of this, stop trying to correct people, there's no point. Name branding that comes out first almost always ends up as the label, deal with it.

 

Just think of Band-Aids, Q-tips, or Kleenex ALL brand names not the actual names of the products, would you correct someone for asking for an one of these things?

Or that all tablets are iPads. Or that all smartphones are iPhones.

I think it is important to call things what they really are. You wouldn't you be annoyed if someone said "have you seen the new iPad Microsoft has launched?" when they release a new Surface? I would, just like it's kind of annoying to hear people call Adaptive-Sync FreeSync when they are two different things.

[cesrai]

Or that all tablets are iPads. Or that all smartphones are iPhones.

I think it is important to call things what they really are. You wouldn't you be annoyed if someone said "have you seen the new iPad Microsoft has launched?" when they release a new Surface? I would, just like it's kind of annoying to hear people call Adaptive-Sync FreeSync when they are two different things.

Yes I second this.

 

Second means support right?

[Notional]

Fanboys and stupidity dude it's so common, and freesync is AMD implementation to use adaptive vsync, not for you but the guy you are responding to.

 

I assume you are referring to me? Then please quote me, so we can have the discussion. I am not a fanboy, nor am I stupid. What a low level to discuss on.

You do not seem to understand that AMD proposed the Adaptive Sync standard to VESA themselves. You don't seem to understand that AS is the hardware part of Freesync, that AMD took out of Freesync to give to VESA, so we would have an industry standard. Freesync was announced before AS, so how could freesynd work, if it relied on a standard that was neither proposed to VESA, nor existed in any hardware? Furthermore, eDP is not capable of syncronizing fps and hz, which is the entire point of Adaptive Sync. Both you and @Nineshadow seem to fail to understand this, but at least he knows that Variable Vblank comes from eDP. That does not mean eDP has AS in any shape or form.

 

Ps. please use multiquotes. Seing 4-5 posts by you in a row looks wasteful.

 

They fucking think AMD owns this fucking shit, it's been out in 2008.

 

eDP has been out since 2008 yes, syncronizing fps and hertz was first introduced in Adaptive Sync (well technically G-sync first announced it), this year, proposed by AMD to VESA, based on their Freesync tech. It is not that hard to understand.

[cesrai]

I assume you are referring to me? Then please quote me, so we can have the discussion. I am not a fanboy, nor am I stupid. What a low level to discuss on.

You do not seem to understand that AMD proposed the Adaptive Sync standard to VESA themselves. You don't seem to understand that AS is the hardware part of Freesync, that AMD took out of Freesync to give to VESA, so we would have an industry standard. Freesync was announced before AS, so how could freesynd work, if it relied on a standard that was neither proposed to VESA, nor existed in any hardware? Furthermore, eDP is not capable of syncronizing fps and hz, which is the entire point of Adaptive Sync. Both you and @Nineshadow seem to fail to understand this, but at least he knows that Variable Vblank comes from eDP. That does not mean eDP has AS in any shape or form.

 

Ps. please use multiquotes. Seing 4-5 posts by you in a row looks wasteful.

 

 

eDP has been out since 2008 yes, syncronizing fps and hertz was first introduced in Adaptive Sync (well technically G-sync first announced it), this year, proposed by AMD to VESA, based on their Freesync tech. It is not that hard to understand.

You got me wrong I only meant the second part for you, I'm very sorry for that,,G-sync is hardware **don't know the word only heard it** <pip -ra-yo-tery>

leave that it's not for the discussion I only wanted to know the word,, but G-sync is not the same as AD sync or I'm missing something.

[PopReference]

Or that all tablets are iPads. Or that all smartphones are iPhones.

I think it is important to call things what they really are. You wouldn't you be annoyed if someone said "have you seen the new iPad Microsoft has launched?" when they release a new Surface? I would, just like it's kind of annoying to hear people call Adaptive-Sync FreeSync when they are two different things.

I think the Apple thing is an exception(a bit hypocritical, I know) but the company built it's self around having unique implementations and naming for everything. The term Smartphone has become common enough, and calling one an iPhone would be more a comment on the appearance/style in general. The iPad thing was funny though right? Like when that sports announcer guy said that thing that one time, or when those people put their phones in the microwave? Right? Honestly, I get more annoyed when Tablets and iPads aren't use interchangeably but used one after the other.

[Notional]

You got me wrong I only meant the second part for you, I'm very sorry for that,,G-sync is hardware **don't know the word only heard it** <pip -ra-yo-tery>

leave that it's not for the discussion I only wanted to know the word,, but G-sync is not the same as AD sync or I'm missing something.

Fair enough, but my points still stand though. 

 

G-sync is both hardware (physical proprietary g-sync module in the monitor) and software (driversupport, controlling the GPU). This is especially true, as G-sync uses a more complex 2way communication system with the monitor.

When Freesync was announced, it was both hardware (scaler support) and software (driversupport) in one. However AMD decided to split hardware and software into two, the hardware part being proposed as an official VESA standard in Displayport (Adaptive Sync), and the driver software, that is still called Freesync (might be launched with a different name when that time comes).

 

Both g-sync and freesync/adaptive sync, uses eDP's variable VBlank tech, to sync fps and hz. This is a feature eDP does not itself support.

[cesrai]

Fair enough, but my points still stand though.

G-sync is both hardware (physical proprietary g-sync module in the monitor) and software (driversupport, controlling the GPU). This is especially true, as G-sync uses a more complex 2way communication system with the monitor.

When Freesync was announced, it was both hardware (scaler support) and software (driversupport) in one. However AMD decided to split hardware and software into two, the hardware part being proposed as an official VESA standard in Displayport (Adaptive Sync), and the driver software, that is still called Freesync (might be launched with a different name when that time comes).

Both g-sync and freesync/adaptive sync, uses eDP's variable VBlank tech, to sync fps and hz. This is a feature eDP does not itself support.

Will thanks, I was confused a little bit, but now if hardware is in Vesa standard anyone can make a software <driver> for it if you know what you are doing, so Nvidia may call it something else and Intel also.