playing BF4, WTF is bottlenecking!?!

[solarflare]

I would not buy new Mobo

your going to have the same issue. 

 

many people are having this issue. just read the Battlelog forums. 

 

BF4 something is wrong with it since a few patches ago. 

 

I checked today and although my fps stayed better then it did a few weeks ago its still fluctuating at less than 100% load even uncapped fps. 

 

And this pc i have is unleashed about as much as any desktop you will find. 

[SkilledRebuilds]

Forgive me for not reading all 6 pages but I know this isn't the fix for your situation, but works in other cases (even if declocking isn't an issue, it can change other variables)

Have you tried disabling powerplay support via MSI AB (first page, bottom drop down selection) and re-run your tests? (essentially forced LOCKED clocks of whatever you set, no declocking...and then play BF4 and monitor usage the same way)

[Guest]

Speaking of MSI afterburner, that reminds me...

 

OP, have you tried completely disabling MSI afterburner? that may actually be the cause of your issue.  In the battlelog forums I recently saw several threads indicating MSI afterburner is known to cause secere performance issues with BF4, and I experienced this recently as well when I got my MSI GTX 970 and tried using MSI afterburner, it tanked my performance in BF4.

[The_Evenger]

bwat47, on 30 Oct 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Speaking of MSI afterburner, that reminds me...

 

OP, have you tried completely disabling MSI afterburner? that may actually be the cause of your issue.  In the battlelog forums I recently saw several threads indicating MSI afterburner is known to cause secere performance issues with BF4, and I experienced this recently as well when I got my MSI GTX 970 and tried using MSI afterburner, it tanked my performance in BF4.

sorry nope, I believe the issue you're talking about is with the RTSS OSD, it would make the game launch like normal, but after a few seconds, it would bring it down to like .3 frames per second, disabling BF3/4 in the OSD panel will fix that.

 

Forgive me for not reading all 6 pages but I know this isn't the fix for your situation, but works in other cases (even if declocking isn't an issue, it can change other variables)

Have you tried disabling powerplay support via MSI AB (first page, bottom drop down selection) and re-run your tests? (essentially forced LOCKED clocks of whatever you set, no declocking...and then play BF4 and monitor usage the same way)

if you're talking about the unofficial overclocking mode, then yes I have tried it with power play and disabled, although I prefer sapphire TriXX, afterburner just has a nice looking graph

 

I also noticed that the pictures of gpuz doesn't do it justice, when I'm in game the load bar jumps around, like it's crazy looking! I think I'm gana record it & put it on YouTube so I can put a link here because it's just insane

[Monarch]

It's your CPU. BF4 is a CPU heavy game, especially on 64p servers.

This guy has the same issue: youtu.be/zuLD20s0K5g?t=6m38s

 

Same thing with i5 CPUs. I have 4670k. Here's how my graph looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/iPRmQ15.png

http://i.imgur.com/DvFXHDe.png

This is with running Mantle. On D3D11 it's way worse. In my case bf4.exe cpu usage is around 95%

 

Also take a look at test 2 and 3 here: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

 

Test case 2: Standard 64-player multiplayer

CPU: AMD FX-8350, 8 cores @ 4 GHz

GPU: AMD Radeon 7970 3 GB

Settings: 1080p ULTRA 1x MSAA

OS: Windows 8 64-bit

Level: Siege of Shanghai

Level was tested with 64 “pseudo players” that we have for our own internal testing that simulates heavy game workload that we have in multiplayer in order to get more deterministic results compared to full real multiplayer. 64 players on the large Battlefield levels is really demanding of the CPU so this test case is primarily CPU-bound.

 

[Juliogol]

It's your CPU. BF4 is a CPU heavy game, especially on 64p servers.

This guy has the same issue: youtu.be/zuLD20s0K5g?t=6m38s

Same thing with i5 CPUs. I have 4670k. Here's how my graph looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/iPRmQ15.png

http://i.imgur.com/DvFXHDe.png

This is with running Mantle. On D3D11 it's way worse. In my case bf4.exe cpu usage is around 95%

Also take a look at test 2 and 3 here: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

Was having the same problem. Got better results with mantle. But sold my R9 290 and now rocking a gtx 970 get solid 80-150 FPS and 90/95 CPU usage on my i5 4690k@4.4 GHz.

[Monarch]

Was having the same problem. Got better results with mantle. But sold my R9 290 and now rocking a gtx 970 get solid 80-150 FPS and 90/95 CPU usage on my i5 4690k@4.4 GHz.

 

Interesting. So the only thing changed was the GPU?

Not sure what to think about this then: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064785882298646/1/ 

[The_Evenger]

Monarch, on 01 Nov 2014 - 5:12 PM, said:

It's your CPU. BF4 is a CPU heavy game, especially on 64p servers.

This guy has the same issue: youtu.be/zuLD20s0K5g?t=6m38s

 

Same thing with i5 CPUs. I have 4670k. Here's how my graph looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/iPRmQ15.png

http://i.imgur.com/DvFXHDe.png

This is with running Mantle. On D3D11 it's way worse. In my case bf4.exe cpu usage is around 95%

 

Also take a look at test 2 and 3 here: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

so what you're saying is I need to get my hands on an I7 to play this game? at this point I believe it, rather annoying that it doesn't take advantage of core 6&7 but what ya gana do.

what do you recommend for a price range of $300, $400 is pushing it, I was going to get one of the brand new ones, but the MOBO & RAM for those are insane, i'd be lucky to get a 5XXX running for under $900

 

I will do some looking around of my own, I have tons of time before I will have enough money to be considered ready to purchase, but any recommendation will make the beginning of my search easier.

(I really Really want a hexa-core processor, it's nice being able to set something to the bottom 2-3 cores and still have enough performance to play some games while it's doing whatever. but if it's that much more expensive I'll settle for a quad-core)

[Juliogol]

Interesting. So the only thing changed was the GPU?

Not sure what to think about this then: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064785882298646/1/

Only thing. Yes. I definitivelly get better results with nvidia. Even récord gameplay using shadowplay and get no impact on FPS. In my opinion OP should get and nvidia card instead of switching mobo and stuff. I tried everything and nothing improved it. With the GTX 970 everything is working great.

[The_Evenger]

Juliogol, on 01 Nov 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Only thing. Yes. I definitivelly get better results with nvidia. Even récord gameplay using shadowplay and get no impact on FPS. In my opinion OP should get and nvidia card instead of switching mobo and stuff. I tried everything and nothing improved it. With the GTX 970 everything is working great.

it's cheaper to swap processor brands than it is to replace both my damn near brand new AMD cards to brand new NVidia cards.

 

I'm thinking a 4790k should suit me well, the only reasonable hexa-core CPU from Intel is with the X99 stuff, which means a $300 motherboard, and a $300 set of RAM, or more. a 4790k is about 1.25X faster than my 8350, so that should suit me well.

 

besides, I really don't ever want to see NVidia's control panel ever again. trying to stabilize the 440 I had was a nightmare.

[crystal6tak]

I have the same CPU but dual 290X's and to play multiplayer without going below 55 fps I must lower everything to lowest except Mesh quality then bumb up supersampling to 200%. In fact, I have to disable crossfire. Enabling crossfire actually lowers my minimum fps. Maximum fps increases but the frame time gets so worse it feels like its 40 fps when its high 70's. Oh yea, did I mention this is WITH mantle? Although the driver I used then was 14.6 so probably much have changed.

 

I have also done quite a few tests myself, check them out: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/158901-so-i-tried-out-mantle-today-on-bf4-very-sad-face/

 

I compared my singe 7970 oced running D3D11 with 13.11 beta v8 drivers to dual 290X running mantle with 14.6 drivers.

To summarize my findings, at highest settings, the 7970 was 1 fps lower than the dual 290X. At lowest settings, the 7970 was 11 fps higher than the dual 290X. Pretty bizarre results. 

 

I have a strong feeling it's the cpu bottleneck but I can't be sure. Like you, both cpu and gpu are not working at 100%. My tests weren't done in populated servers though. All my tests were done in an empty server.

[The_Evenger]

crystal6tak, on 01 Nov 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

I have the same CPU but dual 290X's and to play multiplayer without going below 55 fps I must lower everything to lowest except Mesh quality then bumb up supersampling to 200%. In fact, I have to disable crossfire. Enabling crossfire actually lowers my minimum fps. Maximum fps increases but the frame time gets so worse it feels like its 40 fps when its high 70's. Oh yea, did I mention this is WITH mantle? Although the driver I used then was 14.6 so probably much have changed.

 

I have also done quite a few tests myself, check them out: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/158901-so-i-tried-out-mantle-today-on-bf4-very-sad-face/

 

I compared my singe 7970 oced running D3D11 with 13.11 beta v8 drivers to dual 290X running mantle with 14.6 drivers.

To summarize my findings, at highest settings, the 7970 was 1 fps lower than the dual 290X. At lowest settings, the 7970 was 11 fps higher than the dual 290X. Pretty bizarre results. 

 

I have a strong feeling it's the cpu bottleneck but I can't be sure. Like you, both cpu and gpu are not working at 100%. My tests weren't done in populated servers though. All my tests were done in an empty server.

well the game has 6 major threads, so if you're hitting 75% usage, you're bottlenecking, simply because the game isn't optimized for more threads. once I actually get enough money to switch brands, I'll report back. I couldn't find any forums with a newish i7 having any problems, so we'll see.

[Monarch]

Only thing. Yes. I definitivelly get better results with nvidia. Even récord gameplay using shadowplay and get no impact on FPS. In my opinion OP should get and nvidia card instead of switching mobo and stuff. I tried everything and nothing improved it. With the GTX 970 everything is working great.

 

It doesn't make sense. Could you provide ss on a server with 64p with perf graph enabled? But there has to be something happening on the screen, otherwise it doesn't mean anything. My "CPU" frame times aren't always so high, I took ss when framerate dropped.

 

I have the same CPU but dual 290X's and to play multiplayer without going below 55 fps I must lower everything to lowest except Mesh quality then bumb up supersampling to 200%. In fact, I have to disable crossfire. Enabling crossfire actually lowers my minimum fps. Maximum fps increases but the frame time gets so worse it feels like its 40 fps when its high 70's. Oh yea, did I mention this is WITH mantle? Although the driver I used then was 14.6 so probably much have changed.

 

I have also done quite a few tests myself, check them out: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/158901-so-i-tried-out-mantle-today-on-bf4-very-sad-face/

 

I compared my singe 7970 oced running D3D11 with 13.11 beta v8 drivers to dual 290X running mantle with 14.6 drivers.

To summarize my findings, at highest settings, the 7970 was 1 fps lower than the dual 290X. At lowest settings, the 7970 was 11 fps higher than the dual 290X. Pretty bizarre results. 

 

I have a strong feeling it's the cpu bottleneck but I can't be sure. Like you, both cpu and gpu are not working at 100%. My tests weren't done in populated servers though. All my tests were done in an empty server.

 

There's no way 8350 can feed 2 290x's in BF4. It's definitely a CPU bottleneck.

 

From what I've seen, you need like a 4690k for 770/280x and a 3rd/4th gen i7 CPU for faster GPUs and CF/SLI.

[crystal6tak]

There's no way 8350 can feed 2 290x's in BF4. It's definitely a CPU bottleneck.

 

From what I've seen, you need like a 4690k for 770/280x and a 3rd/4th gen i7 CPU for faster GPUs and CF/SLI.

Yes I realized (I fully regret going with AM3+). But having absolutely no performance improvement, with mantle even, is ridiculous. Checking tests by others shows 8350 does benefit from mantle which isn't the case for me. Perhaps 14.6 mantle doesn't work with crossfire. I don't know. 

[ACatWithThumbs]

Yes I realized (I fully regret going with AM3+). But having absolutely no performance improvement, with mantle even, is ridiculous. Checking tests by others shows 8350 does benefit from mantle which isn't the case for me. Perhaps 14.6 mantle doesn't work with crossfire. I don't know. 

Crossfire has less benefits from Mantle because every dev has to implement crossfire them selves with Mantle instead of AMD doing it over the driver.

And devs won't put as much effort in crossfire performance than AMD because it's not as important to them.

[Guest]

Crossfire has less benefits from Mantle because every dev has to implement crossfire them selves with Mantle instead of AMD doing it over the driver.

And devs won't put as much effort in crossfire performance than AMD because it's not as important to them.

I wouldn't say it has 'less benefits' as a blanket statement, because on the other hand mantle gives devs a lot more flexibility in how they want to implement crossfire scaling, CIV beyond earth for example.

[The_Evenger]

I actually noticed that in BF4, if you're using mantel, crossfire works in windowed mode & borderless windowed mode. pretty cool if you ask me.

 

anyway I think I've made my selection of what I'm going to buy, that would be a i7 4790k & a MSI z97 Mpower MOBO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369  | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130766)

 

so... I know that the 4790k is one of those from Intel that is a silicon roulette when it comes to overclocking, do you guys have any tips to get a good overclocker, or is it just up to the odds when online?

(also what do you think of the selected upgrade items)

[ACatWithThumbs]

I wouldn't say it has 'less benefits' as a blanket statement, because on the other hand mantle gives devs a lot more flexibility in how they want to implement crossfire scaling, CIV beyond earth for example.

Yes in theory you could do amazing things with Mantle for crossfire but devs have less interest in putting effort into something that not many players will use.

AMD on the other hand has a lot of interest to make crossfire as good as it can be.

Sniper Elite 3 as an example doesn't support crossfire with Mantle at all.

[Monarch]

@The_Evenger

 

youtu.be/HrwUWCsyjdY

You might be interested to read the comment by jkteddy77 (second from the top):

 

I have had an 8350 and now the 4790k

when I had my 8350, it would choke my R9 290 down to about 80% usage in BF4, even with Mantle on.
With DX11 I would get 40-80fps. Now I get 70-110 with my i7 so... and my GPU usage is 97-100%
I tried every driver, multi windows installs, Bios, every tweaks and fix under the sun, the 8350 just cannot handle the 290 or greater on its own.

ONLY get the 8350 if you can get it for $160 and have a gpu like the 770/280x or weaker. You run it with a 290/780/970/290x/780ti/290x, you're gonna have a bad time and won't be getting the performance you should be gettinging with those.
I Would even get an i5 over the 8350 at this point in time. AMD is losing in CPU and GPU markets now...
So unless you are rocking a 270x/760, get an intel.

See videos on my channel if you want to see how it choked my 290
8350 to 4790k has completely relieved any bottleneck in any game that I had, and I gained around 10fps average in a majority of games because the GPU was now pushed to its max.

I'm no fanboy, I will hold onto my AMD GPU's, as those don't fail me... but AMD is out of the top-end gaming tier until AMD releases a new series.
Even now, with the 290 dropping to $250, its $100 cheaper than 970's, and is almost as fast. Heck, you can get 2 290's for the price of a single 980 now.

If you pair a 970 with an 8350 you new builders out there, it will be like running a 770 , you will lose 30fps.

 

[solarflare]

Many people are having slowdowns atm with bf4 + mantel . 

Seems like some kind of memory leak going on. 

AMD says they addressed the issue but Dice has yet to implement the actual fix into BF4. 

 

alot of back and forth between AMD and Dice. 

I switched to DX11 and my FPS Drops stopped. 

although my fps in DX11 is a bit lower then with mantel. 

 

Others stated if you absolutely need mantel then restart the client at the end of each map as the FPS drops and mem leak tend to become a problem after map changes (imho that's a very crappy solution to the problem).. 

[BadMedicineLK]

I have an 8350 and gtx 970. I was getting the exact same problem in the OP is describing. I could get a steady, locked in 60 frames in 1080p in all of the campaign with Ultra settings, but on some maps in multiplayer my fps would be bouncing all over for no reason. 

 

I noticed that after I would reconfigure my video settings the way I want in game it would run perfectly steady 60 fps in campaign/multiplayer, but if I try to change my settings AGAIN in game I started having problems with bouncing framerates. I think there might be a problem with video settings getting overwritten correctly. I think the files get corrupted after a change.

 

The way I cleaned out my settings was to, Repair game with Origin, delete the settings folder in C:Documents/BF4/settings. Restart computer. Run a game. Go in game and set the video settings you want, BUT DON"T GO BACK IN AFTERWARDS AND CHANGE THEM AGAIN.

 

I have done this 5 days ago and have had 0 problems since. 

 

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in. 

[Mush Brain]

Well you own a POS FX.. says it all really.

[The_Evenger]

Alright, update.

 

I just got my new shinny i7 4790k, and it pretty much fixed the issue. framerates never dip below 100, the gpus still spike around 75%-100%, but that's way better than 1%-25%.

 

here's the interesting thing, I now have a new motherboard, running a completely different CPU and chipset, and I was completely expecting to need to re-install windows, but I didn't half to. it just did the "getting devices ready" thing on startup and after a few re-boots, it was good to go!

 

I just think that's amazing, how windows 8.1 is able to recover from such a massive hardware change. I put in my OS drive completely thinking "this'll just blue screen, but whatever lets see what it does", and it actually worked! simply amazing.

[MadManMarsBar]

Alright, update.

 

I just got my new shinny i7 4790k, and it pretty much fixed the issue. framerates never dip below 100, the gpus still spike around 75%-100%, but that's way better than 1%-25%.

 

here's the interesting thing, I now have a new motherboard, running a completely different CPU and chipset, and I was completely expecting to need to re-install windows, but I didn't half to. it just did the "getting devices ready" thing on startup and after a few re-boots, it was good to go!

 

I just think that's amazing, how windows 8.1 is able to recover from such a massive hardware change. I put in my OS drive completely thinking "this'll just blue screen, but whatever lets see what it does", and it actually worked! simply amazing.

i cant see why people have alot of problems with the 8350 , feeds my 970 fine in bf4 ..... i did have some issues but i fixed it ...

[The_Evenger]

MadManMarsBar, on 30 Dec 2014 - 9:13 PM, said:

i cant see why people have alot of problems with the 8350 , feeds my 970 fine in bf4 ..... i did have some issues but i fixed it ...

well it's that the R9 290 is more easily bottlenecked than the NVidia equivalent. don't know why, but it is.