playing BF4, WTF is bottlenecking!?!

[The_Evenger]

update, i have given up. i have exhausted everything i could possibly think of, even if impractical... battlefield beat me.

[Juliogol]

update, i have given up. i have exhausted everything i could possibly think of, even if impractical... battlefield beat me.

Haha

Same here altough using mangle has been mode consistent for me. Ultra; no AA around 100+ most of the time with some rare drops.

[The_Evenger]

Juliogol, on 04 Sept 2014 - 1:18 PM, said:

Haha

Same here altough using mangle has been mode consistent for me. Ultra; no AA around 100+ most of the time with some rare drops.

I see no difference between DX and mantle, and I have had a few drops where the game couldn't push more then 3fps, but alt+tabing would fix it... only happens on one server, strange

guess ill just report it as a bug... considering I can't see it being on my side.

[Juliogol]

I see no difference between DX and mantle, and I have had a few drops where the game couldn't push more then 3fps, but alt+tabing would fix it... only happens on one server, strange

guess ill just report it as a bug... considering I can't see it being on my side.

 

This game has some optimizations problems, for sure. Some maps work better than other. Me, as you have tested everything and it still happens.

[The_Evenger]

an update to anyone still fallowing this topic, you know how my CPU line is way higher in BF4 than my GPU line, if I turn off mantle, then there right on top of each other and never separate.

 

I don't think this is useful in any way, but might as well throw it out there.

[WesTechNerd]

A friend of mine and his friend is having the same exact issues with their 290s and 8350s. He has spent countless hours trying to fix it and finally upgraded to a 4790k with a limited sucess. It must be an optimization issues within bf4 and bf3 with the 280x, 290, and 290x. I think at one point I was getting more fps with a fx-6100 and a 7870 oc edition.

[Guest]

A friend of mine and his friend is having the same exact issues with their 290s and 8350s. He has spent countless hours trying to fix it and finally upgraded to a 4790k with a limited sucess. It must be an optimization issues within bf4 and bf3 with the 280x, 290, and 290x. I think at one point I was getting more fps with a fx-6100 and a 7870 oc edition.

I haven't had this problem at all on a 280x (at least not when using mantle).

 

BF4's optimization issues seem really random, I see people with similar hardware all the time, some getting fine performance, some having crazy performance issues.

[The_Evenger]

an update to anyone still fallowing this topic, I just got a second R9 290, when running crossfire there is no performance boost. same problems, still not getting above 130FPS with low GPU usage.

 

BUT when I render internally @ 3840x2160 I can maintain 80FPS average with much higher usage, with no performance hit.

 

in conclusion, the CPU has to be bottlenecking, even if it's at 60% usage, there is no other reason it could possibly be having an issue in areas where only a CPU bottleneck would tank your frame rate.

[Juliogol]

an update to anyone still fallowing this topic, I just got a second R9 290, when running crossfire there is no performance boost. same problems, still not getting above 130FPS with low GPU usage.

BUT when I render internally @ 3840x2160 I can maintain 80FPS average with much higher usage, with no performance hit.

in conclusion, the CPU has to be bottlenecking, even if it's at 60% usage, there is no other reason it could possibly be having an issue in areas where only a CPU bottleneck would tank your frame rate.

For me it's just Bad optimization. Every other game I can run it perfectly 100% usage but with BF4 this happens. With a 4690k I get much better FPS with mantle definitively.

[ACatWithThumbs]

For me it's just Bad optimization. Every other game I can run it perfectly 100% usage but with BF4 this happens. With a 4690k I get much better FPS with mantle definitively.

It's not a optimization problem Battlefield 4 is one the best PC optimized game on the market right now it's probably a software issue.

Sometimes even just one file on your PC can mess up games performance.

You guys should also check if your CPUs are unparked if you run on Windows 7.

 

[The_Evenger]

For me it's just Bad optimization. Every other game I can run it perfectly 100% usage but with BF4 this happens. With a 4690k I get much better FPS with mantle definitively.

 

It's not a optimization problem Battlefield 4 is one the best PC optimized game on the market right now it's probably a software issue.

Sometimes even just one file on your PC can mess up games performance.

You guys should also check if your CPUs are unparked if you run on Windows 7.

 

actually i just read an interesting forum that said that he fixed his issue by upgrading his ram to duel channel, I may try that considering i am currently running out on some occasions, but it'll take two weeks before i can even order it, let along get my hands on any.

 

Edit: GAWD DAMN IT! i don't get it, i don't!

i just fired up BF3 thinking "ya know what if BF4 won't run my GPUs at full boar i'll just play BF3" and yaknow what? SAME DAMN ISSUE!

 

my duel sapphire radeon HD 6950s config kicked my current duel R9 290 config's ass

 

i'm just about to give up, this makes no sense what so ever. 50ish FPS in BF3 low settings                                               i just don't get it.

[MadManMarsBar]

Well i can vouch that my 8350 dosent cause me any issues , but when i used to have 660 Sli i had exactly the same problem , i had to import a custom Sli profile for BF4 and that solved it sort of , i dont know if you can do that with AMD cards and Crossfire but its worth looking into , i have a Gigabyte GTX970 now and i can max this game out with 150% resolution scale and it stays above 60fps all the time , My 8350 is at stock aswell where as yours is over clocked 

[The_Evenger]

MadManMarsBar, on 15 Oct 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:MadManMarsBar, on 15 Oct 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Well i can vouch that my 8350 dosent cause me any issues , but when i used to have 660 Sli i had exactly the same problem , i had to import a custom Sli profile for BF4 and that solved it sort of , i dont know if you can do that with AMD cards and Crossfire but its worth looking into , i have a Gigabyte GTX970 now and i can max this game out with 150% resolution scale and it stays above 60fps all the time , My 8350 is at stock aswell where as yours is over clocked 

see that's the weird thing, adding my second 290 didn't make the slightest difference in performance in 1080p, but when i was in multiplayer in a spot where i was getting 25FPS i upped the internal resolution to 3840x2160 and turned off AA, and i got 0 performance impact, the only thing that happened is my 290s actually doubled in usage.

 

and on the crossfire note, i also noticed that if i'm running mantle, the game doesn't listen to my crossfire profiles. having two cards and having no performance increase you would think that it would make sense to disable the second card, but when it wouldn't disable crossfire for the game i started screwing around and turns out if i'm using DX11 it does disable crossfire, but if i'm using mantle, it doesn't care, it does what it wants. (and there is a performance impact from DX11 to mantle after the games latest patch)

 

i currently have a set of (2x4) 2133 ram on it's way so ill see if that makes any difference, if it doesn't ill buy the FX 9590 and sell my 8350. and if that doesn't work i'll go intel.

 

if that doesn't work, hammer.

 

i hope i don't have to sell my 8350, it's got a pretty impressive 4.601 OC under its belt.

 

Edit: i also noticed the other day that my windows 8.1 ccc doesn't have anything for my CPU, but my windows 7 does, that's a little odd.

none the less win7 has the exact same issue.

I figured it out, it is my OCing profile in my BIOS

[Juliogol]

You're not giving up are you

[The_Evenger]

Juliogol, on 15 Oct 2014 - 7:22 PM, said:Juliogol, on 15 Oct 2014 - 7:22 PM, said:

You're not giving up are you

well the thing is it's not just this game, pretty much everything is having weird issues, accept tomb raider, that's the only game that has acted how it's suppose to act when you throw another card at it. I may try to contact AMD if and when my ram doesn't fix it.

 

my current situation is unacceptable and unplayable in some cases.

 

Edit: a few people on AMD's forum are saying that my PSU might actually be the issue, which it does have some issues such as where when i reboot my system it will for about 2 seconds completely power off and a cold boot it will power on for .25 seconds then back off for 2, then back on.

 

also i have never had a core fail my stress tests, but occasionally it will just completely lock up, displays may stay on, most times the go off, and the power & reset switches stop responding, i have to kill the PSU to force it to power off, so i can see this.

 

nope. wasn't the issue.

 

Another edit again dude? wow: well, just got a RAM upgrade to 16GBs, don't know why I expected it to make a difference, It didn't.

so... what do you guys think? is it the MOBO, or is it the CPU, because again in the test range, the cards will be spiking up and down in usage, and the CPU will be floating around 50-60%, and if I set it to render @ 3840x2160, they will load up and I will be looking at the exact same framerate as before.

I honestly think it might be the mobo here, the CPU still shows no sign of a bottleneck.

[The_Evenger]

ok I think I'm going to buy an Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z MOBO, it's just a total upgrade, and if hopefully it'll fix the issue... well that is the reason i'm buying it in the first place

 

-it has tons of fan headers, and from what linus says it has awesome fan control in the BIOS so goodbye 5.25 fan controller dials

-it should provide better overclocking, considering the load line calibration on the board I'm currently using is total shit and the OC tools aren't all that great

-supports higher frequency RAM, the board i'm using right now doesn't even support 2133...

-it also has more room between the cards for crossfire

-has PCI-e power (don't know if I need that for duel 290s, what do you guys think?)

 

it's just pretty much better, and if it doesn't fix the issue, I can always return it, right?

 

and if I'm lucky, I won't have to re-install windows, considering it's the same chipset as my current MOBO

 

what do you guys think? because the 8350, OCed faster than a 9590 (unstable 5Ghz temp, REALLLLLLY pushing the volts...) should be fast enough for duel 290s. period.                          but it's not..

[solarflare]

Try Driver v. 14.9.1 or 14.9.2 drivers. 

 

Also if you have disabled ULPS in Afterburner try it with it enabled. 

 

I had the same issues as you and recently they have somewhat stopped. 

 

Dual 290x's and fps drops and 0% load on cards at times which none of it made much sense. 

[superducky94]

ok I think I'm going to buy an Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z MOBO, it's just a total upgrade, and if hopefully it'll fix the issue... well that is the reason i'm buying it in the first place

 

-it has tons of fan headers, and from what linus says it has awesome fan control in the BIOS so goodbye 5.25 fan controller dials

-it should provide better overclocking, considering the load line calibration on the board I'm currently using is total shit and the OC tools aren't all that great

-supports higher frequency RAM, the board i'm using right now doesn't even support 2133...

-it also has more room between the cards for crossfire

-has PCI-e power (don't know if I need that for duel 290s, what do you guys think?)

 

it's just pretty much better, and if it doesn't fix the issue, I can always return it, right?

 

and if I'm lucky, I won't have to re-install windows, considering it's the same chipset as my current MOBO

 

what do you guys think? because the 8350, OCed faster than a 9590 (unstable 5Ghz temp, REALLLLLLY pushing the volts...) should be fast enough for duel 290s. period.                          but it's not..

As I said earlier in the thread, the MOBO is almost certainly my problem, I have thought it was yours as well considering we have the same board (well, different revisions I think). Let us know if it fixes the issue, I think that it will.

[Juliogol]

As I said earlier in the thread, the MOBO is almost certainly my problem, I have thought it was yours as well considering we have the same board (well, different revisions I think). Let us know if it fixes the issue, I think that it will.

I really dont think that changin MOBO will improve your performance. When I wars in your situation I also changed it and did nothing.

Just in case I'll update on muy situation. Yesterday I sold my Sapphire R9 290 and Upgraded to a Gtx 970. When playing BF4 with the R9 290 using DX I got 60-90 FPS playing con ultra no AA. Sometimes with lows to 50ish FPS. With mantle I got better results.

Now with the GTX 970 I get constant 90-150 FPS dependíng on the map.

I think this game is poorly optimized for AMD using DX. Maybe to push Mantle I don't know But after changing lots of things the nvidia GPU is working like a charm.

Also note that CPU usage (4690k OC @4.4ghz) is 90-95% and GPU usage is usually at 80-99%.

[Guest]

I really dont think that changin MOBO will improve your performance. When I wars in your situation I also changed it and did nothing.

Just in case I'll update on muy situation. Yesterday I sold my Sapphire R9 290 and Upgraded to a Gtx 970. When playing BF4 with the R9 290 using DX I got 60-90 FPS playing con ultra no AA. Sometimes with lows to 50ish FPS. With mantle I got better results.

Now with the GTX 970 I get constant 90-150 FPS dependíng on the map.

I think this game is poorly optimized for AMD using DX. Maybe to push Mantle I don't know But after changing lots of things the nvidia GPU is working like a charm.

Also note that CPU usage (4690k OC @4.4ghz) is 90-95% and GPU usage is usually at 80-99%.

 

The reason BF4 performs poorly on AMD when using DX11, is that Battlefield 4 depends on multithreaded rendering to perform well, its maps (especially the ones that have huge detailed buildings like Seige of Shanghai and Hanai Resort) are pretty draw call heavy. Multithreaded rendering is only available on Directx 11.1/Windows 8.1 on nvidia, or on AMD with Mantle.

 

A big part of DX 11.1's multithreaded rendering improvements, (deferred driver command lists) is an optional part of the dx 11.1 specification. AMD has not implemented it in their drivers, because they felt that the performance increase was not enough to bother implementing it, vs creating their own API. (DX 11.1 command lists results in up to 2x draw call performance increase, vs up to 9x with mantle). I also recall reading somewhere that the implementation of command lists actually scaled negatively on AMD's hardware.

 

So right now when it comes to draw call performance on PC, we have acceptable draw call performance with nvidia/windows 8 in games that use dx 11.1 (which as far as I know is just battlefield 4 and civ5, nvidia would like to have people believe that their drivers are magically threaded for all dx11 games, but these improvements are really only present in games that support dx11.1), and near console level draw call performance with AMD/Mantle, which again is only present in a few games at the moment.

 

Here's hoping that directx 12 standardizes multithreaded rendering, and that directx12's improvements scale well on both AMD and Nvidia hardware, and brings draw call performance closer to that of Mantle than dx11.1, so we can see these kinds of improvements in more games.

[The_Evenger]

solarflare, on 29 Oct 2014 - 12:25 AM, said:

Try Driver v. 14.9.1 or 14.9.2 drivers. 

 

Also if you have disabled ULPS in Afterburner try it with it enabled. 

 

I had the same issues as you and recently they have somewhat stopped. 

 

Dual 290x's and fps drops and 0% load on cards at times which none of it made much sense. 

I don't really use beta drivers but I tried them both, no difference.

ULPS was disabled, but enabling it made no difference.

same old 40% cpu usage on test range, same old you can disable half the cores on the CPU and you wont get a hair of performance difference, so I'm going to go forward with the new MOBO in 2-4 weeks, so I'll probably be reporting back in 3 weeks, 5 tops

[Juliogol]

I don't really use beta drivers but I tried them both, no difference.

ULPS was disabled, but enabling it made no difference.

same old 40% cpu usage on test range, same old you can disable half the cores on the CPU and you wont get a hair of performance difference, so I'm going to go forward with the new MOBO in 2-4 weeks, so I'll probably be reporting back in 3 weeks, 5 tops

Can you borrow an nvidia card just to try before switching mobos? It's the only thing you didn't try I would give it a shot based ok what I posted early

[The_Evenger]

Juliogol, on 29 Oct 2014 - 4:43 PM, said:Juliogol, on 29 Oct 2014 - 4:43 PM, said:

Can you borrow an nvidia card just to try before switching mobos? It's the only thing you didn't try I would give it a shot based ok what I posted early

only thing I have laying around is a 440GT, and the 6950s were fine

 

besides I just got GPU-Z to work and oh god look at the averages!

they really don't look good, I'll go into a multiplayer match and see what happens. also, turns out Crossfire works in borderless windowed mode... odd considering my 6950s refused to work in crossfire when borderless windowed mode was selected.

 

[The_Evenger]

ok here's the in-match game stats (I was using full screen because borderless has a large impact to input delay so there is nothing for what's on screen)

also holy wait fuck what?!?

why is my memory speed in windows at 800?!!? that's half the advertised speed!

in the BIOS it shoes the correct speed, but In all my OSes, they all show 800... could this be the issue?

 

Edit: oh wait, it cuts in in half for duel channel... damnit

[Guest]

ok here's the in-match game stats (I was using full screen because borderless has a large impact to input delay so there is nothing for what's on screen)

also holy wait fuck what?!?

why is my memory speed in windows at 800?!!? that's half the advertised speed!

in the BIOS it shoes the correct speed, but In all my OSes, they all show 800... could this be the issue?

 

Edit: oh wait, it cuts in in half for duel channel... damnit

 

On my machine the windows task manager does show the full ddr speed. Not sure why yours isn't, but looking at the cpuz screenshot (it is normal for cpuz to only show the 'half' speed), your ram speeds look fine, probably some glitch with the task manager: