Trik's Giant Drunken Political Flame War

[Trik'Stari]

Ok, so just to point out from an earlier argument in another topic, GDP is Gross Domestic Product, and is defined as such on wikipedia,

 

Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all officially recognized final goods and services produced within a country in a year, or over a given period of time. GDP per capita is often used as an indicator of a country's material standard of living.^[2][3]

GDP per capita is not a measure of personal income (See Standard of living and GDP). Under economic theory, GDP per capita exactly equals gross domestic income (GDI) per capita. However, due to differences in measurement, there is usually a statistical discrepancy between the two figures.

GDP is related to national statics, a subject in macroeconomics. GDP is not to be confused with gross national product (GNP) which allocates production based on ownership.

 

GDP has nothing to do with the National Federal Debt (which is currently 17.5 Trillion at time of posting according to http://www.usdebtclock.org/), unless you assume a 100% tax rate which would be neither fair, nor actually happen because people would go fucking ape shit.

 

NOW.

 

Worst presidents in US history

 

1. Barak Obama (he is outright disobeying the law, ordering other agencies to not enforce laws, then claiming there is a crisis, namely immigration, which has been a weapon and crisis created by the democrat party since they put a stop on seasonal migrant worker visa's)

2. George Bush (I didn't really have a problem with him other than the patriot act and its recent effects)

3. Abraham Lincoln (It's his fault we have the current federal leviathan to deal with)

 

RULES:

1. Be drunk

2. Be angry

3. Have fun

 

and so it begins.....

[DeViLzzz]

The cake is a lie?

[Rheinwasser]

would have to get up to get alcohol.

[Trik'Stari]

Lol.

 

The cake is indeed a lie.

 

And why don't you have alcohol to begin with?

[Imaginaerum]

Do I rip in pepperonis?

[juretrn]

What if I told you every single politician in Slovenia is worse than the worst that come from US?

[StingBull]

What if I told you every single politician in Slovenia is worse than the worst that come from US?

 

You would be wrong? At least a bad decision of a stupid politician in Slovenia didn't cause thousands of deaths in some parts of the world.

[juretrn]

You would be wrong? At least a bad decision of a stupid politician in Slovenia didn't cause thousands of deaths in some parts of the world.

It still affects our country rather badly though.

[Trik'Stari]

I feel bad for other countries, I do. We here in America are (and yes this is our own fault for touting this) supposed to be the "shining light" of the modern world. We're supposed to be so much better than we are right now.

 

We're supposed to be the nation that shows other nations that you don't need a ruling class, you can run a country of the people and by the people, for the people.

 

And what are we looking at now?

 

God help us all, and the rest of the world to.

[Ngrungebb91]

OBAMA IS A WICKED WICKED DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIBERTARIANISM IS OUR FUTURE! WE NEED OUT OF THIS TYRANNY, AMERICA IS DEAD. WE ARE DEAD. WE ARE BASICALLY LIVING IN 1939 IN NAZI GERMANY RIGHT NOW. THE ELITE GLOBALISTS WILL WIN. WE NEED TO WIN THIS WAR. WE NEED TO UNITE AS ONE FOR HUMANITY. THE ELITE WILL KILL US ALL. GOD BLESS AMERICA, THE TRUE AMERICA, THE LIBERTY OF 1776 THAT STILL STANDS.

 

[Trik'Stari]

Lol always gotta bring up the crazy people.

 

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I support no political party because I don't believe in a party system. I believe that EVERYTHING passed by the 3 branches of government should have to receive final approval from us, the people.

 

Furthermore, Obama is a puppet, not a mastermind (although he'd prefer you to think he is) just like all politicians.

 

My solution would be this, all members of congress arrested, their assets liquidated and the money from that given back to the people in an even share, and them put on an ice flow and sent out to sea. Then, we pass a few laws:

1. No person shall hold more than one elected office in their lifetime, And only one term in length.

2. No elected official shall have the right to privacy, or the right to plead the 5th.

3. As elected service is entirely voluntary, no elected official shall EVER be paid or otherwise compensated financially for their time.

4. No one related to an elected official, who is alive during the time when that person holds office, by either marriage or blood, shall be allowed to hold elected office, under any circumstances what-so-ever.

5. Any politician who either attempts to plead the 5th, or uses the term "re-election" should be automatically disqualified from their position, and fired, out of a cannon, into a brick wall.... but seriously, removed from office for eternity.

 

Far as I see it, that's problem solved.

[Builder]

Holy fucking shit. You ARE fucking off your rocker.

 

I suppose there's always one crazy in every situation. Shame he gets attention like this. Though I could have known which three you'd pick off the top of your head, because Bush is popular to hate, (and rightfully so, because he'd be nearly impossible for you to defend these days) and Obama, which I wouldn't have ordinarily called you racist for, but you chose Lincoln too.

 

If you read these somewhere else, please know that Obama and Lincoln are hated because Obama is black and Lincoln ended slavery. You can quote this post all you want, I'm not going to respond.

[SeriouslyMikey]

 I shall rise to power and retake what was rightfully ours! 

Britain will be an Empire once again and I shall be The Emperor. 

 

Completely unrelated. 

[Nineshadow]

[Nineshadow]

What if I told you every single politician in Slovenia is worse than the worst that come from US?

Romania too.

[APrettyCoolWalrus]

Holy fucking shit. You ARE fucking off your rocker.

 

I suppose there's always one crazy in every situation. Shame he gets attention like this. Though I could have known which three you'd pick off the top of your head, because Bush is popular to hate, (and rightfully so, because he'd be nearly impossible for you to defend these days) and Obama, which I wouldn't have ordinarily called you racist for, but you chose Lincoln too.

 

If you read these somewhere else, please know that Obama and Lincoln are hated because Obama is black and Lincoln ended slavery. You can quote this post all you want, I'm not going to respond.

Can I quote it to say I love you?

[Volbet]

Let's get started:

 

Lol always gotta bring up the crazy people.

 

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I support no political party because I don't believe in a party system. I believe that EVERYTHING passed by the 3 branches of government should have to receive final approval from us, the people.

 

Furthermore, Obama is a puppet, not a mastermind (although he'd prefer you to think he is) just like all politicians.

 

My solution would be this, all members of congress arrested, their assets liquidated and the money from that given back to the people in an even share, and them put on an ice flow and sent out to sea. Then, we pass a few laws:

1. No person shall hold more than one elected office in their lifetime, And only one term in length.

2. No elected official shall have the right to privacy, or the right to plead the 5th.

3. As elected service is entirely voluntary, no elected official shall EVER be paid or otherwise compensated financially for their time.

4. No one related to an elected official, who is alive during the time when that person holds office, by either marriage or blood, shall be allowed to hold elected office, under any circumstances what-so-ever.

5. Any politician who either attempts to plead the 5th, or uses the term "re-election" should be automatically disqualified from their position, and fired, out of a cannon, into a brick wall.... but seriously, removed from office for eternity.

 

Far as I see it, that's problem solved.

This just creates new problems:

1. Wouldn't this make all lower elected positions undesirable? You would have a big lack of qualified people that would run for mayors, governors, state officials etc. People with good political qualifications would only aim for congress or the presidency.
2. Why? There are of course certain aspects of privacy that needs to be made public. Those being the ones that can hinder a politicans ability to be a politican. For example mental health history. But if a person is in to some kinky sex stuff, it is only their business and not the publics. It seems unfair that a briliant politican should be judged just because he likes hentai. I don't know what you mean with "plead the 5th". do you mean the 5th amendment?
3. This would discourage succesfull and possibly intelligent people from running for office. If those people can't atleast get compensated for their time, they won't run at all.
4. Same problem as point number 1, since intelligent and qualified people usually marries and breeds the same type of people. And why should the acts of the father punish the son? That is some North Koreas stuff righ there. Whatever my family does, can hit me. 
5. What if the politican is the best thing ever? Wouldn't it be a same if that person was disqualified forever?

[Trik'Stari]

 

Let's get started:

 

This just creates new problems:

1. Wouldn't this make all lower elected positions undesirable? You would have a big lack of qualified people that would run for mayors, governors, state officials etc. People with good political qualifications would only aim for congress or the presidency.
2. Why? There are of course certain aspects of privacy that needs to be made public. Those being the ones that can hinder a politicans ability to be a politican. For example mental health history. But if a person is in to some kinky sex stuff, it is only their business and not the publics. It seems unfair that a briliant politican should be judged just because he likes hentai. I don't know what you mean with "plead the 5th". do you mean the 5th amendment?
3. This would discourage succesfull and possibly intelligent people from running for office. If those people can't atleast get compensated for their time, they won't run at all.
4. Same problem as point number 1, since intelligent and qualified people usually marries and breeds the same type of people. And why should the acts of the father punish the son? That is some North Koreas stuff righ there. Whatever my family does, can hit me. 
5. What if the politican is the best thing ever? Wouldn't it be a same if that person was disqualified forever?

 

The issue is that none of what you suggest, is what happens in the current system. We get the worst qualified people. my idea of qualification is someone who wants to do whats best for the country, and not what's best for them, which is all we have today. Politicians all say the same thing "what can we do, that makes us look better than we are, so we can get elected again and again and again" they have no incentive to actually fix anything. As for the father son thing, while yes it is a bit odd, but it prevents the whole "power behind the throne" thing. If you have an idiot for a son that gets re-elected, he's going to be nothing but a puppet, which we've seen before, somewhat.

 

As for privacy, it's just necessary to not allow politicians to have any. Again, elected office is an entirely voluntary institution, so anyone that wants to do some good, would be willing to put up with the downsides of it. It shouldn't be a career, which is all it ever is these days. Government has become the new "mafia" if you really look at it, all government is ever concerned with, is how to grow government, how to get more power and more money.

 

A primary example of what government is:

 

They claim to do things for "the good of everyone" (health and safety) except that they don't, they just make money and grow government and control.

[Volbet]

The issue is that none of what you suggest, is what happens in the current system. We get the worst qualified people. my idea of qualification is someone who wants to do whats best for the country, and not what's best for them, which is all we have today. Politicians all say the same thing "what can we do, that makes us look better than we are, so we can get elected again and again and again" they have no incentive to actually fix anything. As for the father son thing, while yes it is a bit odd, but it prevents the whole "power behind the throne" thing. If you have an idiot for a son that gets re-elected, he's going to be nothing but a puppet, which we've seen before, somewhat.

 

As for privacy, it's just necessary to not allow politicians to have any. Again, elected office is an entirely voluntary institution, so anyone that wants to do some good, would be willing to put up with the downsides of it. It shouldn't be a career, which is all it ever is these days. Government has become the new "mafia" if you really look at it, all government is ever concerned with, is how to grow government, how to get more power and more money.

 

A primary example of what government is:

They claim to do things for "the good of everyone" (health and safety) except that they don't, they just make money and grow government and control.

Unfortunatly "whats best for the country" is a very subjective term. I have no doubt that the Grand Wizard of the KKK wants what's best for his/her country. While they might wish the best, their vision of a good country isn't necessarily the best. 

If I were to elect someone, i would want one that can make a rational decision based on facts and numbers.

 

The solution to the problem you propose is not necessarily to make elected positions voluntary. It would more or less be to remove the economic insentive to become a politican. Remove hugh donations from corprate doners, and you have removed part of the problem. 

Another problem with making it a voluntary position, would be that only the rich could afford to hold the office, A man, or women, that lives paycheck to paycheck, can't afford to take 1-4 years out of their life to do volunteer work, 

[Trik'Stari]

Unfortunatly "whats best for the country" is a very subjective term. I have no doubt that the Grand Wizard of the KKK wants what's best for his/her country. While they might wish the best, their vision of a good country isn't necessarily the best. 

If I were to elect someone, i would want one that can make a rational decision based on facts and numbers.

 

The solution to the problem you propose is not necessarily to make elected positions voluntary. It would more or less be to remove the economic insentive to become a politican. Remove hugh donations from corprate doners, and you have removed part of the problem. 

Another problem with making it a voluntary position, would be that only the rich could afford to hold the office, A man, or women, that lives paycheck to paycheck, can't afford to take 1-4 years out of their life to do volunteer work, 

All true. Which is why we need to ban political campaigning as well, simply hold public debates where anybody can speak and run for office. And as it stands, only the rich afford to hold office as it is now. I find it very funny that most of congress claimed "we cant afford the affordable healthcare act" when it first got passed, and then got a waiver exempting them from having to take part in it, and got to keep their old taxpayer paid for healthcare plan.

[Fred Castellum]

Unfortunatly "whats best for the country" is a very subjective term. I have no doubt that the Grand Wizard of the KKK wants what's best for his/her country. While they might wish the best, their vision of a good country isn't necessarily the best. 

If I were to elect someone, i would want one that can make a rational decision based on facts and numbers.

 

The solution to the problem you propose is not necessarily to make elected positions voluntary. It would more or less be to remove the economic insentive to become a politican. Remove hugh donations from corprate doners, and you have removed part of the problem. 

Another problem with making it a voluntary position, would be that only the rich could afford to hold the office, A man, or women, that lives paycheck to paycheck, can't afford to take 1-4 years out of their life to do volunteer work, 

The lobbying of politicians is negatively effecting our economy, these laws and regulations look good to those who don't fully understand what they do. So they get passed because raising minimum wage sounds great right?

 

We need to cut the head of the snake off, lobbying politicians with monetary benefits so they pass laws that benefit these companies are really shitting on our competitive market, were not even using a true capitalistic system now...  

[Volbet]

All true. Which is why we need to ban political campaigning as well, simply hold public debates where anybody can speak and run for office. And as it stands, only the rich afford to hold office as it is now. I find it very funny that most of congress claimed "we cant afford the affordable healthcare act" when it first got passed, and then got a waiver exempting them from having to take part in it, and got to keep their old taxpayer paid for healthcare plan.

Now we are talking the same language. Let everyone run for office and abolishe the two party system. Allow everyone to have a voice in the debate. 

Unfortunatly i don't think I can take this discussion to a much deeper level, since I don't live in the US and therefor i don't really experience the political system on my own body.

i can only really give my own opninion on what change i would like to see, but i can't probably found them in the American culture. 

 

The lobbying of politicians is negatively effecting our economy, these laws and regulations look good to those who don't full understand what they do. So they get passed because raising minimum wage sounds great right?

 

We need to cut the head of the snake off, lobbying politicians with monetary benefits so they pass laws that benefit these companies are really shitting on our competitive market, were not even using a true capitalistic system now...  

I didn't see this before posting, so @MyInnerFred

 

I fully agree that lobbying in the scale that it's happening is a bad thing.

That's why I would remove corporate donations for politicans, both in the US and in Denmark where I live. 

Arguably the US has a crony capitalistic system by now, where the rich can just pay to become richer. In the end this might end in a corpocracy, which I don't think the general population is interested in.

[KamiKatze]

This is why i think of Canada when i say i want to go to north america.

[Trik'Stari]

This is why i think of Canada when i say i want to go to north america.

Enjoy paying higher taxes then.

 

The real issue is that we still feel the need for "elected officials". We do need a group of people in charge to do the work of the "executive branch" but I feel the need to have congress has long been surpassed, with the advent of long range near instant communication, why are we still without a true democracy? Most people say "would you really want idiots running things", well I for one would rather idiots run things than corrupt idiots that only care about hogging everything for themselves, at least with a true democracy we might get the advantage of the corporations whoring themselves out to all of us, rather than just the "elite".

[KamiKatze]

Enjoy paying higher taxes then.

 

The real issue is that we still feel the need for "elected officials". We do need a group of people in charge to do the work of the "executive branch" but I feel the need to have congress has long been surpassed, with the advent of long range near instant communication, why are we still without a true democracy? Most people say "would you really want idiots running things", well I for one would rather idiots run things than corrupt idiots that only care about hogging everything for themselves, at least with a true democracy we might get the advantage of the corporations whoring themselves out to all of us, rather than just the "elite".

 

I meant for a vacation. But you're right, what else is there to see in canada except for a lot of forest and Linus?

 

It's just the political and social conflicts in the US and the gun laws/ enjoyment of gun posession that keep me away.