Please keep this in mind!!!!!!

[thedomsaww]

Soo... i just want to take a moment to remind or even to inform some of you about the Arena Commander module.  This is not a full game, this is not even a beta or alpha game.  What we as backers of this project are experiencing right now is what a very few people get to experience.  We get to see the very beginning stages of a blockbuster game.  Not only that but we get to test it as well.  There is going to be bugs, glitches and crashes while playing anything that comes out of RSi for a long while.  Please bear with them and help make this game into something epic.  If you experience any of this, instead of spreading discontent about this game, help out.  You can do that by going here,

(https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/arena-commander or

 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/ac-single-player or

 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/)

and sharing your feedback directly to the developer.  Not only can you vent but what u share will make the experience better for everyone.

 

By the way i have not even been able to download the latest patch to even begin to try to play yet.  If i can be optimistic and keep an open mind so can all of you.

 

UOLTT is the place to be  see you all in the verse.

[NICKT]

Just so you know, when the 'dogfighting module' was aptly named Arena Commander, it came with the mention that this would form the base of the dogfighting aspect of the full game when it releases, so whilst it's not the full game now, it's very much so at least the basis for dogfighting.

 

If you're like, "Herp derp, it's not the full release of Star Citizen" then yeah, you're bloody right, good on ye'.

However, you're saying that it's not an alpha or beta at all, which is a load.

 

Either way, the games been in dev for years, "The development of the game started in 2011 on a modified version of the CryEngine 3 game engine."  Source

That's three years, three bloody years. If there's something wrong with flying, just, flying or even walking around in your hangar(which is the simplest part of this entire game but what fucking ever.) then I'm sure people can be upset because it means CIG have no fucking idea what they're doing.

 

I swear, all they've been doing is a shit tonne of concepts, coming up with a bunch of cool shit and ideas and then when it comes to actually delivering anything they're like, "oh fuck".

Twiddling their fucking thumbs and wondering why people losing interest, I'm looking forward to the game, sure, but considerably less. Especially when they keep asking for people to subscribe and give them more money, it's like, where the fuck did the money we already give you go? Seriously? It wasn't just a couple hundred, it was bloody thousands. Thousands of dollars and three years and all we've got is a bland hangar where we can click on a few things, and now a very basic arena commander mode which you're now telling me isn't even an alpha.

 

This game is a bag of wind, we'll see when the day comes whether they've actually backed it up any or whether it'll fall through.

[rentaspoon]

snip

The best games I've played have taken at least 5 years and the bigger you push a game the longer it takes.

I forget how much the original game funding was ment to be but when the funds got bigger so did the expectation of everybody.

The longer the game is in development the easier it is in adding extra stuff.

Plus I think they are are only marketing what's relevant at the time.

[NICKT]

The best games I've played have taken at least 5 years and the bigger you push a game the longer it takes.

I forget how much the original game funding was ment to be but when the funds got bigger so did the expectation of everybody.

The longer the game is in development the easier it is in adding extra stuff.

Plus I think they are are only marketing what's relevant at the time.

 

Oh please, I've played absolutely amazing games that have been made in a year, it's moot to even try to argue that development time somehow ties into the quality of a game.

However, what time does speak for is competence and capability. Three years, just for perspective, what CIG have done for SC, in the same amount of time, Skyrim was made completely, absolutely finished in 3 years. Meanwhile we're still getting alphas.

And as much as I dislike Skyrim, I will not deny that there is a lot of shit in that game, however, in three years of CIG, I reiterate, textured box and now two maps where I can fly around in. Mind you, similar ship mechanics in SC can be found in SWTOR, I kid you fucking not.

 

Also, if you're a dev and you get more money on your kickstarter and your first response is to start promising more to your consumer base, then you're a fucking moron.

Obviously, this aspect doesn't speak so foul of Star Citizen but more towards the developers. Mentality and approach play a big part and it probably lends highly as to why we're seeing nothing but concept art for the most part.

The first Star Citizen video I saw, there was a clip of Chris showing off the Hornet and how the thrusters would dynamically move you in the direction you wanted, and that if one was destroyed, they'd take that into account and move you different to achieve a similar result. That was the very first video I saw, years ago. To think from that point to now, absolutely nothing has progressed in the eyes of the playerbase. For all I know, the game could be done but I'm speaking from what we're 'allowed' to know, and so far? I'm not banking my money at all on this.

[TheDigitalRealm]

snip

 

And you, Sir are what's giving SC bad press. You haven't taken into account that, in 2011 and 2012, their budget reached a hight of a few hundred thousand, which is nothing when it comes to developing this triple A title people have been expecting. Good games have taken longer to develop, so what's your point about how long it's taking? Halo 3 - Considered a good game by most, and a console game at that, took 4 years+ to develop. 

 

This isn't about proving that they've gotten work done, the Dog Fight Module is about recruiting almost half a million game testers to spot and report bugs, to help accelerate the game's development. All of this was made clear. Right from the beginning.

 

It's almost like people are willing to 'trust' CIG, isn't it? God, wouldn't that be terrible.

[CatCloud]

This again!? Tell us about marketing nickt while your at it. But i kinda agree, progress is daaaaaamn slow....its not even close to galaxy on fire 2 or even a X game.

I do wonder whats up tbh.

[rentaspoon]

Oh please, I've played absolutely amazing games that have been made in a year, it's moot to even try to argue that development time somehow ties into the quality of a game.

However, what time does speak for is competence and capability. Three years, just for perspective, what CIG have done for SC, in the same amount of time, Skyrim was made completely, absolutely finished in 3 years. Meanwhile we're still getting alphas.

And as much as I dislike Skyrim, I will not deny that there is a lot of shit in that game, however, in three years of CIG, I reiterate, textured box and now two maps where I can fly around in. Mind you, similar ship mechanics in SC can be found in SWTOR, I kid you fucking not.

Also, if you're a dev and you get more money on your kickstarter and your first response is to start promising more to your consumer base, then you're a fucking moron.

Obviously, this aspect doesn't speak so foul of Star Citizen but more towards the developers. Mentality and approach play a big part and it probably lends highly as to why we're seeing nothing but concept art for the most part.

The first Star Citizen video I saw, there was a clip of Chris showing off the Hornet and how the thrusters would dynamically move you in the direction you wanted, and that if one was destroyed, they'd take that into account and move you different to achieve a similar result. That was the very first video I saw, years ago. To think from that point to now, absolutely nothing has progressed in the eyes of the playerbase. For all I know, the game could be done but I'm speaking from what we're 'allowed' to know, and so far? I'm not banking my money at all on this.

What games have you played that have taken a year? Just curious.

And yeah skyrim was made in 3 years but the engine was already there from previous games on top of that the amount of bugs the game had on release and SC engine modifications only started in December but don't quote me on that.

[CatCloud]

What games have you played that have taken a year? Just curious.

And yeah skyrim was made in 3 years but the engine was already there from previous games on top of that the amount of bugs the game had on release and SC engine modifications only started in December but don't quote me on that.

They also had fully operational studios to work in unlike CIG.

[NICKT]

What games have you played that have taken a year? Just curious.

And yeah skyrim was made in 3 years but the engine was already there from previous games on top of that the amount of bugs the game had on release and SC engine modifications only started in December but don't quote me on that.

There are absolutely thousands of games that span different development times that very in quality and enjoyability between them all, I'm not shying away from that fact.

See, you're being a prick and ignoring the proper points I'm trying to make and you're harping on points which I should have probably left out so you'd have no excuses to be a retard.

 

Yes, Skyrim had a lot of bugs, was based on an old engine and whatever, BUT THAT IS NOT MY FUCKING POINT.

MY POINT IS IF YOU HAVE TIME AND MONEY AND ALL YOU'VE SHOWN AND TOLD IS A BOX WITH SOME SHIPS IN IT AND NOW JUST FINALLY GETTING TO A DOGFIGHTING MODULE WHICH IS SO SIMILAR TO THE ONE IN SWTOR THEN I BEGIN TO IMAGINE JUST WHAT THE FUCK THEY WERE DOING WHICH IS MY MAJOR POINT OF CONTENTION HERE.

[rentaspoon]

There are absolutely thousands of games that span different development times that very in quality and enjoyability between them all, I'm not shying away from that fact.

See, you're being a prick and ignoring the proper points I'm trying to make and you're harping on points which I should have probably left out so you'd have no excuses to be a retard.

Yes, Skyrim had a lot of bugs, was based on an old engine and whatever, BUT THAT IS NOT MY FUCKING POINT.

MY POINT IS IF YOU HAVE TIME AND MONEY AND ALL YOU'VE SHOWN AND TOLD IS A BOX WITH SOME SHIPS IN IT AND NOW JUST FINALLY GETTING TO A DOGFIGHTING MODULE WHICH IS SO SIMILAR TO THE ONE IN SWTOR THEN I BEGIN TO IMAGINE JUST WHAT THE FUCK THEY WERE DOING WHICH IS MY MAJOR POINT OF CONTENTION HERE.

I'm not being a prick but I was genuinely interested in what games you've played that have had a short development there might be a few gems I've missed.

I'm not ignoring actually points I thought you where making several.

And if your going to buy in early and then complain about that's your problem as it's a risk you take, my gamble is on CR previous games being that good.

Also what right do you have calling retard? You post your opinion on a forum, people are going to post their's.

[b45op]

This again!? Tell us about marketing nickt while your at it. But i kinda agree, progress is daaaaaamn slow....its not even close to galaxy on fire 2 or even a X game.

I do wonder whats up tbh.

 

The slow pace is only what we are seeing, I think we have to remember that, there is a literal shit tonne of work that goes into a game even before you write a single line of code or draw a bit of concept art. also from what we do know there is a lot of stuff that is being worked on beyond the Arena commander and the hangar... things that we wont see until close to the full release probably.

 

There are absolutely thousands of games that span different development times that very in quality and enjoyability between them all, I'm not shying away from that fact.

See, you're being a prick and ignoring the proper points I'm trying to make and you're harping on points which I should have probably left out so you'd have no excuses to be a retard.

 

Yes, Skyrim had a lot of bugs, was based on an old engine and whatever, BUT THAT IS NOT MY FUCKING POINT.

MY POINT IS IF YOU HAVE TIME AND MONEY AND ALL YOU'VE SHOWN AND TOLD IS A BOX WITH SOME SHIPS IN IT AND NOW JUST FINALLY GETTING TO A DOGFIGHTING MODULE WHICH IS SO SIMILAR TO THE ONE IN SWTOR THEN I BEGIN TO IMAGINE JUST WHAT THE FUCK THEY WERE DOING WHICH IS MY MAJOR POINT OF CONTENTION HERE.

 

Could I suggest that you stop being negative, what we have here is a discussion that you keep trying to make into an argument. Yes it has taken some time whoop de fucking do! see my comment above for MY opinion on this. Sure they might have a flight sim that is similar to the one in SWTOR cool... nice to know however did SWTOR opensource their game and allow CIG to use it in Star citizen? if not then CIG have had to go and make a totally new one, this means starting from scratch and doing it all, there is no time savings in that.

 

I also have to reiterate that you were under no obligation to pay into this... you did so under your own cognition as did I, personally I am a little peeved that it has taken this long however I also understand the mechanics behind all of it and I understand that no matter how much money you throw at something it cannot make it go faster.

[Ajirax]

There are absolutely thousands of games that span different development times that very in quality and enjoyability between them all, I'm not shying away from that fact.

See, you're being a prick and ignoring the proper points I'm trying to make and you're harping on points which I should have probably left out so you'd have no excuses to be a retard.

 

Yes, Skyrim had a lot of bugs, was based on an old engine and whatever, BUT THAT IS NOT MY FUCKING POINT.

MY POINT IS IF YOU HAVE TIME AND MONEY AND ALL YOU'VE SHOWN AND TOLD IS A BOX WITH SOME SHIPS IN IT AND NOW JUST FINALLY GETTING TO A DOGFIGHTING MODULE WHICH IS SO SIMILAR TO THE ONE IN SWTOR THEN I BEGIN TO IMAGINE JUST WHAT THE FUCK THEY WERE DOING WHICH IS MY MAJOR POINT OF CONTENTION HERE.

 

Holy crap, things are heating up around here.

 

I agree that what we have after 3 years of development isn't much, but what you're forgetting is that it's easier to get started if you have all the money beforehand, as is the case with editor-produced games.

 

Let's take SWTOR, for example, which development took ages as well. Released in 2011.

"An October 2008 preview noted some of the 12 full-time writers had been working on The Old Republic for more than two years at that point." And they're just talking about voice acting, I imagine basic development comes earlier. (Which brings up another relevant point : when developers announce a game, it's usually already in development. I remember reading an article which explained that GTA V was being developed before GTA IV's release)

So that takes us back to 2006, 5 years of development if not more and, as I said, the game was fully funded from the start, didn't have the ambition / scope of SC and was still very glitchy at release.

 

I wasn't there to see SC's evolution from the start, but you can guess that game development didn't start with the Kickstarter campain.

They had to define the game so they can "sell it" to backers, they had to make Star Citizen known, and they probably had to wait for a while to get started (once they had enough money to recruit, buy equipements, etc...)

In SWTOR's case (or any other "usual" game), Lucas or EA just go to Bioware and say "Hey, we want you to make a Star Wars MMO, here's 200 millions, you have 5 years. Let's get started." (... Okay, it probably doesn't happen that way, but you get my point...).

And as Rentaspoon said, most games are sequels that heavily rely on previous game mechanics (You can see that with Skyrim and Fallout 3, GTA V and IV, and they still took more or less 5 years of development. I won't even talk about CoD, FIFA, Assassin's Creed, BF and all the others "copy/past every year with some new features" games.), so it's not really fair to compare.

 

Having said that, I have to agree with you when it comes to AC. The delay was tremendously long for what we get in the end (at least in quantity, I can't judge the quality yet it's still downloading), knowing they had more than enough money crews and equipements by that time. I try not to take that as a really bad sign for future deadlines or releases, but it's hard not to...

[NICKT]

My point in comparison to SWTOR wasn't that they were emulating it, or that they copied it, more in the fact that they're similar which speaks to the fact that what Star Citizen was doing in the most basic of things wasn't too out there and was quite a simple concept. I suppose handling of ships is going to be a lot more advanced in SC compared to Starfighter but like I said, I do quite believe one of the first few SC videos was one where Chris was showing off a Hornet turning dynamically using the thrusters on top, so why they haven't allowed us to fly ships for so long is weird because it seems they had at least a very basic system back then that was working somewhat.

 

My point in comparison to all other games, and just anything in general, if you have a lot of time and a lot of money there should at least be something to show for it, y'know? 45 million, that is a hell of a lot, more money than most of us will see in a life time and yet all they've got so far is a tonne of concept work. I won't deny that the concept works and the modelling we've seen is top notch, but what have we really seen? We've basically seen a bunch of modelled ships, a tonne of concept work and a few 'cutscenes/trailers'. Nothing of the PU or Squadron 42. All we've gotten is 10 for the Chairman and the Wingman's Hanger, showing very limited information on odd things like mining platforms and the like, not to mention how many times they showed off a little of the DFM, the questions for the most part can all be brought from concept. As a aspiring developer myself, I've ran through several ideas in my lifetime, I've gotten to the point where I've had hundreds of character biographies, concepts drawn and storylines drafted for a video game idea and having nothing more, to me at that point then you're still at 0% completion of your video game because there's not really much meat on the bone, just an idea of a delicious meal you'd like.

 

I'm not sure how SC is going to handle planets, but I'm going to assume it won't be like an MMO where you walk around on the planet, at least not to a great extent. I have this thought in the back of my head that they were going to use a system that would remind me of Phoenix Wright, where you get a list of locations then you can move around in each of the locations, though that may be me just having random mental spasms and thinking I've read something which never existed. Either way, at the very bottom of it, this game runs on space simulation, we've only just gotten a pre-alpha of space flight, the one thing the game depends on the most. They've gone balls out on all these other things and only just put out pre-alpha space flight.

 

What I'm trying to say here is that there's not really much to the game when you look at it, as soon as they get space flight done then all they have to do is cutscenes, mission systems for Squadron then work out all the smaller mechanics for the PU whilst people dick around in the AC, yet they just made them all work on everything at once and in the end everything is kinda just chugging along really slowly..

[thedomsaww]

Wow i posted this just before bed and first chance i get to check it there is a huge debate going on.  Awesome .  @NICKT  i understand where you are coming from there has been a long wait for us to finally get our hands on AC.  And between that time there has been so much hype and such high expectations for this game.  I would not disagree that i think this part of the game is no where near ready, but at the same time i think CR and CIG would also agree.  They have been very vocal that they want to release this in order to get feed back.  

 

My intention was to remind us all of this and link the forums where you can voice your feedback.  We have the opportunity to have our voice hurd and help make a game we want to play.  If you dont like something post a thread about it in one or all the links i provided.  Dont just flame the game on every forum  you can without providing any answers to how u want it fixed.