LG says Apple’s 300ppi Retina definition is industry misconception

[LAwLz]

I believe Austin Evans mentioned this (though I could be wrong, it was a while back): even if you can't distinguish the individual pixels on either screen, a higher resolution display with higher resolution content will look clearer/sharper/better than a lower resolution screen with lower resolution content.

The only explanation for that would be the placebo effect. Once you pass the line for what our human eyes can see (which varies from person to person) it shouldn't matter how much higher resolution you get.

Luckily for us though, we are not even close to touching the limit of what the human eye can see (slightly below 900 for someone with 20/20 vision).

 

I made this graph before which clearly shows that we will still benefit from getting higher resolution screens.

For those of you who do not know what 20/20 means, it means average vision. 20/16 is slightly above average vision and 20/24 is slightly below average vision. It is possible that some people have 20/8 vision, but it is extremely, extremely rare. 20/12 isn't super uncommon though.

 

How I got these numbers and what they mean in more detail

 

 

Bottom line: LG are right and people like OP have been fed misinformation. For about half the population, 300 PPI is not enough for be classified as retina.

 

I do agree that it would be nice with longer battery life though, but that has more to do with battery technology being stuck in the stone ages than it does with screens being "too good".

 

 

 

 

 

You can't compare core count, but you can compare benchmark results. And as you said, the A7 is ALMOST en par with a 2.5 ghz quad core which is run by a 300$ phone (1+1).

You can't always compare benchmark results because the tests are flawed. This is the case in 90% of iPhone vs <insert Android phone> benchmarks.

In terms of raw performance (at least if you use the fairly bad DMPIS measurement) the CPU in the A7 does not even come close to a quad core Krait 400 at 2.5GHz.

It does outperform the Krait by a lot of very specific stuff like AES and SHA but overall it's not as fast.

[RedRound2]

Sorry but I disagree. The battery life of iPhones has been just as bad as that of competitors who had already implemented 1080p displays. Also, 1704x960 is just ludicrous. It matches no standard ever conceived (save for a couple of hd dvds which used 852x480, which is another poorly used and dead standard), which means movies will always have to be stretched or scaled on it. The compatibility wouldn't have been such a problem if Apple had anticipated to developers that there might be shifts in resolution and format with time, so developers could have implemented customizable resolutions like android devs do.

 

I also agree that "retina" is just a marketing tag and holds no real world value (so what if I CAN see all dem pixels on a retina screen from 10"? Am I not human?), but the way LG "proved" it, as you said, makes no sense. The printer argument however does sort of make sense as you can most definitely tell the difference between 300dpi and 600dpi prints.

 

1704 x 960 is 16:9 ratio, so there won't be any need for scaling. And second Apple is great with batteries. iPads and Macbooks are the prime examples. On an iPhone 5S the body is too small to fit a huge battery like 2000mAH to get a really good battery life. iPhone 5S has 1500 mAh (something along those lines) battery which is lasts as long as any android phone. I can guarantee that an android phone as powerful as the iPhone with same battery wouldn't even last 4 hours.

 

And since they are increasing the physical form factor I can again guarantee that one of the major changes to iPhone 6 is going to be a much better battery life when compared to the competition

[RedRound2]

The only explanation for that would be the placebo effect. Once you pass the line for what our human eyes can see (which varies from person to person) it shouldn't matter how much higher resolution you get.

Luckily for us though, we are not even close to touching the limit of what the human eye can see (slightly below 900 for someone with 20/20 vision).

 

I made this graph before which clearly shows that we will still benefit from getting higher resolution screens.

For those of you who do not know what 20/20 means, it means average vision. 20/16 is slightly above average vision and 20/24 is slightly below average vision. It is possible that some people have 20/8 vision, but it is extremely, extremely rare. 20/12 isn't super uncommon though.

PPI.png

 

How I got these numbers and what they mean in more detail

 

 

Bottom line: LG are right and people like OP have been fed misinformation. For about half the population, 300 PPI is not enough for be classified as retina.

 

I do agree that it would be nice with longer battery life though, but that has more to do with battery technology being stuck in the stone ages than it does with screens being "too good".

 

These may be scientific results but I'm talking about the real world experience. I don't wear glasses. I've asked my friends and family whether they can notice any difference and most of them couldn't but some of them did see but the difference was so negligible that they said it would make ZERO difference when using the higher one compared to the lower one. Scientifically yes, but in reality its insignificant.

And on one note, whatever I speak on about here are all in personal experience and none of my opinions are coloured by someone else.

 

And go on please ask your friends and family whether they can spot the difference between iPhone's and a 1080p android phone's panel

[Askew]

Battery life and processing power is wasted.

And battery life/technology in mobiles is the one area that isn't evolving at the same rate.

[Sauron]

1704 x 960 is 16:9 ratio, so there won't be any need for scaling. 

scaling isn't related to the aspect ratio but to the resolution. if the aspect ratio is off, it's even worse as you see black bands on the sides, however running a different resolution movie on that screen will result in poorer than it would be on a 1080p panel quality.

Battery life is tied more closely to screen size than to the actual resolution (res does make a difference but it's not as big). My greatest complaint about it is the fact that it's not standard.

[RedRound2]

scaling isn't related to the aspect ratio but to the resolution. if the aspect ratio is off, it's even worse as you see black bands on the sides, however running a different resolution movie on that screen will result in poorer than it would be on a 1080p panel quality.

Battery life is tied more closely to screen size than to the actual resolution (res does make a difference but it's not as big). My greatest complaint about it is the fact that it's not standard.

 

Okay, fine. I don't know much about how scaling works with different res, but the difference is going to be negligible and most people wont notice it. On the other hand compatibility with existing apps with this resolution is way a bigger deal theen you might think

[Sauron]

Okay, fine. I don't know much about how scaling works with different res, but the difference is going to be negligible and most people wont notice it.

Sure, but they're asking 700$+. For that price it should have all the best features and then some.

[Boon]

Sony Xperia Z1 has comparatively very bad panel. Everything tends to look washed out, so colour accuracy > no. of pixels (>300 ppi) anyday.

 

Do you even know who manufacture the iPhone panels?

 

And also do you even know what kind of specs the Triluminos display offers before you go making that statement?

 

I have compared this in real life, and I honestly disagree with you entirely there. That is a matter of opinion and not fact. I bought this phone as it has more than the capabilities that I will need in a phone for the next three years, let alone it was only one month old and was nearly half the price of a brand new model. (unless Dev's stop patenting every fucking thing they make, in particular Apple. Apple Patent Lawsuits are destroying innovation imo)

 

Even if i considered an iPhone, i'd be extremely lucky to get anything in as close to the condition my Z1 is for less than $500.

 

Are you stupid to compare iPhone specs with an android phone????

Almost all tech enthusiasts knows never to compare android and iPhone specs. Why because apparently Apple's dual core A7 chip clocked at 1.3 GHz is almost on par with Quad core Snapdragon 800 clocked at 2.5 Ghz. It's like Intel and AMD. 

People who do have common sense, do know the limitation of Moto G when compared to an iPhone and believe me the performance of my secondary Moto G is no where close to my iPhone 5

 

I think if you would have a look at the Price vs. Performance analysis between these two phones, I think you would find yourself terribly wrong for a start.

 

The iPhone would obviously cream the Motorola in every other aspect, the point I was making is that you don't have to surrender $1000USD every time a new iPhone comes out, because really they only cost probably a fifth of that in materials. R&D, marketing and all that other bs does not account for the remaining overhead on the phone. Were talking Apple here, God damn fucking Apple, a company that is worth more than most developed countries. Do you think they got to this position by being ethical and actually selling phones valued near their cost? The few excuses Apple give for not having 1080p screens are concepts such as 'Retina Displays'. Why don't they just call it RetinaX ffs, LG have just about debunked this one for us all here.

 

Most flagship android phones will dramatically reduce in speed after 1 or 2 years of use. 

 

Are you honestly using this as some kind of 'pro' for going with an iPhone? You must be off your chops to think Apple aren't doing this.....

 

(and have been for a longer time than android flagship phones)

 

 

So, if you look at his perspective and the satisfaction he's getting from his simple, compact, good looking phone with a lot of support from Apple you're the bloke here,

 

Well I'm not the bloke here mate. I'm not IT illiterate or biased towards simplicity vs control. Obviously you're the bloke in this situation since you are talking about the iPhone as if you work for Apple or sell their products on late night infomercials. (I'm guessing that it was infomercials and you hit the jackpot selling iPhone's and moved to UAE to live it up! )

 

General consumers who've used an iPhone before tends to continue using an iPhone because of its simplicity and its long lasting quality. 

 

Are you from Mars? You're starting to scare me with these claims. Most people stick with iPhones because they are IT illiterate or biased towards change, particularly from iOS to android for the IT illiterate (they simply won't do it because they can't find their "iApplications", just take the 'i' out of everything >.>). I know for a fact there are millions of people who own an iPhone and are unable to turn a desktop computer on/off. That consumer is also getting jagged by all of the other streams in which Apple generate proift. The main one notably would have to be the cables and chargers for iPhones. You could just about buy a Motorola Moto G for the price of 2 charger packs and two cables, Apple brand. The Moto G would probably come charged as well! (well it definitely shouldn't, but for the lol's)

 

*REAL LIFE - JUST BOUGHT AN IPHONE 5 ON DAY ONE FOR $1000 - NEK MINUTE - DROPPED ON THE FLOOR FROM ABOUT HALF A METRE, SHATTERED SCREEN, $200 REPAIR FROM SHOP OR FACE VOIDING WARRANTY IF I DIY*

 

Does that not strike you as more of a reality for iPhone quality? Let alone long lasting.... Try find someone who still uses a 3rd gen iPhone, and isn't using it because they just broke their next-gen version by dropping it (before Apple went to a sapphire screen). At least they created a derivative of the phone for a premium price which offered a sapphire screen.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, you are making just excuses for Apples shortcomings in terms of their products and are trying to defend it by stating the colour of a Z1 is 'washed out'. Either you own an iPhone and are regretting it by reading this article or you work for/are paid off by Apple somehow

 

Why pay more for less.

[sof006]

Oh look the pointless PPI war's.

 

 

Look, as long as the PPI is over 300 you can't see any pixels unless your eyes are right up against the screen. I have a Nexus 5 and an iPhone 5S and can't see any difference between the two.

[LAwLz]

These may be scientific results but I'm talking about the real world experience. I don't wear glasses. I've asked my friends and family whether they can notice any difference and most of them couldn't but some of them did see but the difference was so negligible that they said it would make ZERO difference when using the higher one compared to the lower one. Scientifically yes, but in reality its insignificant.

And on one note, whatever I speak on about here are all in personal experience and none of my opinions are coloured by someone else.

 

And go on please ask your friends and family whether they can spot the difference between iPhone's and a 1080p android phone's panel

Scientific results are worth more than anecdotal stuff.

There are far too many variables at play to just do a simple "do you see the difference" test. Things like color accuracy, reflectiveness of the screen, brightness, color balance, size and a bunch of other things all factor in when doing a "do you see the difference" test. In terms of pure PPI however, there is a difference.

 

Your personal experiences are colored though. Anecdotal evidence is always colored. That's why it is less valuable than scientific results.

 

 

Okay, fine. I don't know much about how scaling works with different res, but the difference is going to be negligible and most people wont notice it. On the other hand compatibility with existing apps with this resolution is way a bigger deal theen you might think

From what I've heard talking to some developers, iOS doesn't have any scaling. Everything is mapped to specific pixels which is why they always have such difficulties increasing resolution (break compatibility like with the iPhone 5/black bars, or quadruple the resolution and just make each pixel into 4 pixels).

They were really short sighted when they programmed it that way, and they are suffering from it now. That's why we might never see a 16:9 or 16:10 device using iOS. They either have to do some very major changes to the underlying OS or break compatibility with all apps (as in, add black bars).

[RedRound2]

Sure, but they're asking 700$+. For that price it should have all the best features and then some.

 

Again I said the difference is insignificant. There would be at least some improvements in battery by reducing the number of pixels, so its worth the trade

[Sauron]

Again I said the difference is insignificant. There would be at least some improvements in battery by reducing the number of pixels, so its worth the trade

It depends. For me 15 minutes extra battery life are meaningless compared to having a better screen. And the difference, at least for me, is not insignificant. Since there are phones which are as powerful or more, with a full hd screen, for 300$, I'd expect a 700$ phone to either have all the same features and three times the battery life, or the same battery life and twice as many features or to be twice as fast.

[RedRound2]

Do you even know who manufacture the iPhone panels?

 

And also do you even know what kind of specs the Triluminos display offers before you go making that statement?

 

I have compared this in real life, and I honestly disagree with you entirely there. That is a matter of opinion and not fact. I bought this phone as it has more than the capabilities that I will need in a phone for the next three years, let alone it was only one month old and was nearly half the price of a brand new model. (unless Dev's stop patenting every fucking thing they make, in particular Apple. Apple Patent Lawsuits are destroying innovation imo)

 

Even if i considered an iPhone, i'd be extremely lucky to get anything in as close to the condition my Z1 is for less than $500.

 

 

I think if you would have a look at the Price vs. Performance analysis between these two phones, I think you would find yourself terribly wrong for a start.

 

The iPhone would obviously cream the Motorola in every other aspect, the point I was making is that you don't have to surrender $1000USD every time a new iPhone comes out, because really they only cost probably a fifth of that in materials. R&D, marketing and all that other bs does not account for the remaining overhead on the phone. Were talking Apple here, God damn fucking Apple, a company that is worth more than most developed countries. Do you think they got to this position by being ethical and actually selling phones valued near their cost? The few excuses Apple give for not having 1080p screens are concepts such as 'Retina Displays'. Why don't they just call it RetinaX ffs, LG have just about debunked this one for us all here.

 

 

Are you honestly using this as some kind of 'pro' for going with an iPhone? You must be off your chops to think Apple aren't doing this.....

 

(and have been for a longer time than android flagship phones)

 

 

 

Well I'm not the bloke here mate. I'm not IT illiterate or biased towards simplicity vs control. Obviously you're the bloke in this situation since you are talking about the iPhone as if you work for Apple or sell their products on late night infomercials. (I'm guessing that it was infomercials and you hit the jackpot selling iPhone's and moved to UAE to live it up! )

 

 

Are you from Mars? You're starting to scare me with these claims. Most people stick with iPhones because they are IT illiterate or biased towards change, particularly from iOS to android for the IT illiterate (they simply won't do it because they can't find their "iApplications", just take the 'i' out of everything >.>). I know for a fact there are millions of people who own an iPhone and are unable to turn a desktop computer on/off. That consumer is also getting jagged by all of the other streams in which Apple generate proift. The main one notably would have to be the cables and chargers for iPhones. You could just about buy a Motorola Moto G for the price of 2 charger packs and two cables, Apple brand. The Moto G would probably come charged as well! (well it definitely shouldn't, but for the lol's)

 

*REAL LIFE - JUST BOUGHT AN IPHONE 5 ON DAY ONE FOR $1000 - NEK MINUTE - DROPPED ON THE FLOOR FROM ABOUT HALF A METRE, SHATTERED SCREEN, $200 REPAIR FROM SHOP OR FACE VOIDING WARRANTY IF I DIY*

 

Does that not strike you as more of a reality for iPhone quality? Let alone long lasting.... Try find someone who still uses a 3rd gen iPhone, and isn't using it because they just broke their next-gen version by dropping it (before Apple went to a sapphire screen). At least they created a derivative of the phone for a premium price which offered a sapphire screen.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, you are making just excuses for Apples shortcomings in terms of their products and are trying to defend it by stating the colour of a Z1 is 'washed out'. Either you own an iPhone and are regretting it by reading this article or you work for/are paid off by Apple somehow

 

Why pay more for less.

 

Triluminos display, Bullshit. The display of the Xperia Z1 is just plain crap and almost all reviewers also point the same.

 

Have you ever heard of Z1s. It's half the price after 6 months since sony releases a new flagship every six months

 

Performance on the iPhone is incredible. Why my old iPhone 3GS still works really well aside from the battery. Compare that to Samsung Galaxy S (released when iPhone 4 released) or Xperia mini, play or at that time's HTC desire. All these android phones are ancient and non existent but I still see iPhone 3GS in public

 

I don't know why you people just call Apple expensive, but every other flagship costs the same

 

Having a lower screen res definitely increases the Graphic and the battery performance. Android manufacturers are still behind ppi, megapixels, clock speed and CPU cores war since people like you can easily be brainwashed by specs on paper.

 

Well from what you're blabbing out over here, you sound like an IT illiterate, thinking whatever you say is always true 

 

There is a limit to your exaggeration. People don't move from iPhone because android tend to always have weird errors of sorts. My relative has a Galaxy S4 and it hangs, crashes and occasionally just blacks out. Since I'm a tech enthusiast I know whats happening but my relative doesn't know anything and just gets pissed. iPhones almost never have these kinds of problem and that's why people stick with. Also 4 years software support, bringing new features and UI changes are also welcome. my relative's galaxy s4 still looks the same and the KitKat update just brought out more problems. Also iCloud, simplicity and compactness are also a factor. People who I know switched to android only because they wanted a bigger screen

 

ALL SCREENS ON ALL FREAKING PHONES CRACK, BASIC PHYSICS YOU DOUCHEBAG!!

And atleast they're the only company that seems to do something about it rather than increasing numbers on everything

 

All you seem to do is make you're own claims and act like Mister Know it all. And if I was ever displeased about my iPhone I would be bashing it badly. Seems like you're the one who regretted your android phone, since the whole idea just came from you

[RedRound2]

Scientific results are worth more than anecdotal stuff.

There are far too many variables at play to just do a simple "do you see the difference" test. Things like color accuracy, reflectiveness of the screen, brightness, color balance, size and a bunch of other things all factor in when doing a "do you see the difference" test. In terms of pure PPI however, there is a difference.

 

Your personal experiences are colored though. Anecdotal evidence is always colored. That's why it is less valuable than scientific results.

 

 

From what I've heard talking to some developers, iOS doesn't have any scaling. Everything is mapped to specific pixels which is why they always have such difficulties increasing resolution (break compatibility like with the iPhone 5/black bars, or quadruple the resolution and just make each pixel into 4 pixels).

They were really short sighted when they programmed it that way, and they are suffering from it now. That's why we might never see a 16:9 or 16:10 device using iOS. They either have to do some very major changes to the underlying OS or break compatibility with all apps (as in, add black bars).

 

No anecdotal results are way better. The only reason scientific is used is because anecdotal results vary from person to person. I know alot of people who like the design of Galaxy S5. And when you people consider the HTC One M8 as the best designed phone, I feel that it's worse than last years model because of its curvy corners and brushed back.

And when I was asking my friends it was indoors and I asked them whether they were able to see any pixelation and me previous point still stands

 

They do have scaling, I'm learning how to use Xcode and they do have scaling. The reason why they didn't scale when iphone 5 released was because content would look weird and abnormal. So it was better to use black bars until the devs update the app which btw is really easy. On the new iphone 6, all apps would fit the screen well until dev's update their app to make use of the extra screen real estate 

[RedRound2]

It depends. For me 15 minutes extra battery life are meaningless compared to having a better screen. And the difference, at least for me, is not insignificant. Since there are phones which are as powerful or more, with a full hd screen, for 300$, I'd expect a 700$ phone to either have all the same features and three times the battery life, or the same battery life and twice as many features or to be twice as fast.

 

Okay for most people its higher pixel density (>300) is insignificant, while other factors like colour accuracy, saturation, response time matters a lot (atleast for me). And since you brought up the OnePlus One, the reviews I've seen so far isn't anything great. the software is horrible and its plagued with numerous bugs making the experience weird and choppy at times. That's why the tech community recently got quiet about the OnePlus One.

[Sauron]

And since you brought up the OnePlus One, the reviews I've seen so far isn't anything great. the software is horrible

But that's the beauty of android phones. flash it with a "vanilla" rom and you're good to go ^^

[paras]

I hate the excuse of flashing a different Rom.Not all want the warranty to be void.

[RedRound2]

But that's the beauty of android phones. flash it with a "vanilla" rom and you're good to go ^^

 

For general consumers that's rocket science. And besides by flashing roms, you'll void your warranty and risk your device from being bricked

[paras]

For general consumers that's rocket science. And besides by flashing roms, you'll void your warranty and risk your device from being bricked

Agree and not all want to void there warranty.

[The_Evenger]

i don't see the big thing about phone's having amazing screens, it's a phone, mine is 480x800 it's not amazing, but it's good enough to the point where text that is at the point where i wouldn't be able to read on paper if it were any smaller, is still clear enough to read. i just see most of this as pointless and screens overrated. if you have good AA, you'll never notice the pixels.

[paras]

i don't see the big thing about phone's having amazing screens, it's a phone, mine is 480x800 it's not amazing, but it's good enough to the point where text that is at the point where i wouldn't be able to read on paper it if it were any smaller, is still clear enough to read. i just see most of this as pointless and screens overrated. if you have good AA, you'll never notice the pixels.

It depends on what a person wants from their phone.We can't generalise it tbh.

[Victorious Secret]

ITT: My peen is bigger than your peen

[AllstaRawR]

I don't know why people hate on manufacturers which provide a higher pixel count...IT'S EVOLUTION OF THE MARKET!Why the hell wouldn't you want evolution?The only downside of 1440p on phones right now is the lack of content for it.

 

... And battery use from the GPU.

[hawaiims]

-MS: "Hold on...One sec...Yes Hi we're doing a live call here, we're calling bullshit!"

 

most battery tests are total shite because they don't actually calibrate the display to the same luminance. 50% brightness on one phone might be much dimmer on one phone than another. 

 

That's why anandtech's battery life tests are pretty much the only credible ones for phones. They change the brightness setting to whatever 150 nits corresponds to (or maybe it was 200, I forgot)

[LAwLz]

No anecdotal results are way better. The only reason scientific is used is because anecdotal results vary from person to person.

No, anecdotal evidence is worthless. Sorry but it is. It's like trying to convince someone that the Galaxy S 5 is better than the iPhone because you like the blue color of the case more than the gray iPhone.

It doesn't matter what *you* think if there is scientific evidence that says the opposite. Scientific evidence is worth more than anecdotal evidence because humans are easily manipulated and makes errors all the time.

 

I know alot of people who like the design of Galaxy S5. And when you people consider the HTC One M8 as the best designed phone, I feel that it's worse than last years model because of its curvy corners and brushed back.

And when I was asking my friends it was indoors and I asked them whether they were able to see any pixelation and me previous point still stands

Those are not even anecdotal evidence, they are just opinions.

It doesn't matter what your friends could or couldn't see because they might have below average vision, the test might not have been in the optimal scenario and/or they might not even have known what to look for.

 

 

 

i don't see the big thing about phone's having amazing screens, it's a phone, mine is 480x800 it's not amazing, but it's good enough to the point where text that is at the point where i wouldn't be able to read on paper if it were any smaller, is still clear enough to read. i just see most of this as pointless and screens overrated. if you have good AA, you'll never notice the pixels.

That is very, very untrue. Try reading some of the more complex Kanji on a screen with low PPI. It's pretty horrible compared to a high PPI one.

Also, we should always try to improve things. Once we start going "X is good enough" progress slows down. People said 1GHz CPUs were overkill and they didn't see the point in going over that (this was for desktops by the way, not phones). Yet here we are, where anything less than a dual core at ~3GHz is considered pretty bad, and it would have been an order of magnitude better than what was considered overkill just ~15 years ago.