Your experience with EVs and are you ready to do the jump.

[thrasher_565]

11 minutes ago, Lurking said:

I think Hertz had jumped the gun and went for the green creds. But someone renting doesn't care about green. And when you rent far away from home, you are not familiar with local charging, or how far you can drive on a charge.

 

I don't know if they had an account with Tesla to use their chargers or how they accounted for that. I suspect some potential renters were unsure about those details.

 

And an EV really is economical if you charge at home. That isn't the case for rentals. 

 

If I owned an EV, it sure would take me some weeks to feel comfortable going on a trip that exceeds the range and find out chargers etc. And when you rent, you often drive very far. So the cards were a bit stacked against rental EV.

 

I know the Chevy Bolt at work don't show remaining mileage correctly on the Interstate. I take them to 1 hour away and back and my my navigation shows me 2 Miles travelled while the Bolt drops 3 miles. I once even turned off heat since I got close to empty and didn't want to find out what happens at 0 miles left while driving. GM plays a dangerous game by being overly optimistic with the remaining miles estimate. I would err on the more conservative side.

 

I rent a car on vacation and usually think I can't trust what the person behind the counter tells me how easy charging allegedly is. Because if I drive in unknown area with an unknown car I don't know real life range, I don't want to rely on a charger maybe existing or not. This is not an issue with a car I personally chose to buy and have experience with. 

my dad when he fist got the hybrid he wanted to see how far he could go on a fill and well forgot about it and ran out on a trip... ya thats my dad. a guy that had a reseat for each pc part he got. (gone in a fire thow...) the deals he would get i dont even no.

[Caroline]

On 5/18/2024 at 3:20 AM, QuantumSingularity said:

So the questions are: how is the experience it your country.

This is a fun one. There was a prototype electric bus made using the chassis of an old diesel bus, a 1980s Crown Supercoach, apparently that's an US brand but the state got a lot during the 90s, probably bought as scrap, anyway, it had all new motors, the batteries were locatecd where the old diesel engine was, I think it also had a charger, I saw it irl because the main bus station is close to where I live, the Governor made a speech and all, this was around late 2016 and it was presented as the bus of the future, and said that we would have "50 more by the end of the year" (this was around October lol they had all the hopes), the chief engineer of the factory that built the motors was there too, gave a speech to thank for the funding and blah blah.

 

There was also a charger located in the station for this one bus. Of course we didn't had 50 more, or any more... however, around January 2017 the bus "went missing" after it didn't return after a round trip, it was gone, just like that, there was an investigation but it was NEVER found again, nobody knows where it went, the driver claimed he "got off to pee at the gas station" and when he got back the bus was gone, it was empty too so nobody actually disappeared with it. To the day it's one of the biggest unsolved mysteries in my area. It didn't help it was painted the same as the rest of the buses (orange) and had no particular indicators it was electric other than a green leaf decal.

 

Other than that... no one has EVs, they'd be insanely expensive to import, and there's no infrastructure to charge them, we barely have power for the few remaining industrial sites and residential areas, brownouts and blackouts are constant, so adding EVs would deep fry the grid, so that's all.

 

I do have pics but have to search for them as I keep old pics in CDs

[wanderingfool2]

9 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

if you pull in to a gas station like you said its say 3minuts to fill. 100% of the time

when you pull in to a change station is a 50/50 chance of the 3 minutes and you have to add in the time to find 10 change stations... ya more stations would help same with reliability would also help but thats not that case.

 

are you stopping and pulling over looking up these stations or are you driving and texting?

with a good enough app i guess it could plan stations for you but i doubt there good..

You were making a blanket statement in regards to consuming more time; and I added a qualifying statement to show that it wasn't NECESSARILY the case.  Instead it's like I've mentioned many times if you are capable of charging at home it can make sense.

 

If you didn't clue in based on how I mentioned things, I was not talking about going to superchargers; instead I am basing it on the scenario where the person owning the EV would be charging from home, because as I've stated if you don't have a place to really consistently charge while doing other things like sleeping then it isn't a benefit.  I am not saying that everyone will be able to charge at home, but it's ignorant and fear mongering making statements implying that owning an EV automatically means you will spend more time dealing with it.

 

Here's the hint, if I owned an EV, I would pull into my driveway; grab the charging cable once a week maybe and plug it in and walk inside.  The next morning I would unplug it and be on my way, a total of 10 seconds spent dealing with topping up the car.  So yea, like I said, I would rather plug it in 10 times at my house than spend 3 minutes fueling it up.

 

It's a valid use case that many EV owners have, and a reason why EV owners enjoy having it.  It doesn't consume more time than ICE in many scenarios.

 

9 hours ago, Qrdello said:

It does, when you don't really get to use a proper charger. Like I said earlier, I live in Poland. You can find maybe 5 Tesla charging stations that support that super fast charging. Again, from my sister's experience - her husband goes for coffee, or two sometimes, while their's model 3 (2023) is charging up, and they never drop below 20% charge, so I hear. 

If the charger is the slow, or semi-slow one the process takes up to 40-50minutes and that's not taking into account the wait, because there are more people with other EVs also wanting to charge.

In general, I do get your points but the way things are now I'm sceptical. And in this very case I don't want to be an early adopter of the technology that hinders my life despite being advertised as something just the opposite. And yes, even after 10-something years of first mass produced EVs I still consider the technology to be in it's infancy - just how long did it take for diesels to become popular and relatively idiot-proof?

Well my point on that one was that in use-cases like that it doesn't which was my counter argument to the blanket statement made that EV's consumer more time.  When in reality it only consumes more time if one assumes no home charger; which is why I do agree with people who say they can't charge at home or work that an EV wouldn't be practical.

 

If I were to own an EV, I would in general be saving money and time and only would be inconvenienced on once or twice a year due to the range.

 

9 hours ago, Qrdello said:

I can guarantee you, that by 2034 the motor companies in EU will drop any real petrol based engines and sell only cheap unworthy product. Remember that with those laws come emission limitations and EURO markings. It's extremely expensive to lower your PB emissions and companies like Mercedes or VW have invested so much into EV tech recently, that they won't be willing to create EURO7xx something-friendly engines so that a niche client could go and buy it  that's the reality unfortunately.

Those laws will get changed or neutered in some way...actually iirc some of those laws include vehicles that have like a 5kWh battery.  Anyways, pure EV's are not profitable really for the law to exist.  Tesla is really the only one making good enough margins, and their cheap vehicle likely is not going to be making good margins [expected next year] or will have extremely limited range.  GM and Ford both are losing money on them.  Bolt was discontinued having never really generated profits.  So when the time comes, I think the laws will be adjusted to meet the reality that EV's aren't feasible unless one is willing to hand over the full reigns to Tesla.

 

8 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Yes it does. Its forcing power providers to make their network better. Its not just about power generation its also an issue with transmission and reliability. In the last year Detroit Edison raised rates twice. And are seeking a 3rd rate increase. America's electrical grid is pretty fucking old at this point. The power company is not going to be the one picking up the tab for upgrades.

Except that's a slight failure in planning [BC is in that prediciment as well...where there was a push to cancel the building of a new hydro plant because "we are good in our power usage", where now we aren't].

 

Overall though, having higher draws balances itself overtime, looking at it short-term you might see spikes but in the long term you won't.  Overall though, as I mentioned earlier you have AI and the powerdraws from datacenters that will be pushing the grid a lot more, and car to grid technology should alleviate some of the bigger overheads that power companies have [specifically buying energy at inflated prices during short peaks].

 

8 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Never have to do that. The gas station I go to is on my way home. Shit there are gas stations on every corner at this point.

 

10 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Now if you decide to stick between 50 - 80% charge; you will need to plug it in ~10 times vs 1 ICE fill up. 

Thats the issue. I can fill up once and be good. I fill up once a week and thats about a quarter to half a tank depending on how much driving I do. Until EV's can be charged in the same amount of time many are not going to want them. Im not siting for 10s of minuet waiting for one to charge. Charging at home is not always an option.

That bit wasn't directed at you or a statement you made, but rather the other person making the statement of EV's consume more time [with things like charging].  I know charging at home doesn't meet your needs, but for people who do get to charge at home it can save them time compared to filling up.

 

In my case I am 15 minutes from a gas station, or ones that do I end up having either cars infront waiting for the cheaper gas or waiting for the attendant [because the one is a "full server" only]

 

3 hours ago, Spotty said:

On that point, some rental car companies are phasing out and selling off Tesla's due to high upfront cost, high maintenance/repair costs, and low resale value. Though, one key difference of rental cars from taxis is the person renting the car is paying for fuel/recharge out of their own pocket. The rental company isn't benefiting from electric charging being cheaper than fuel. For a taxi service the higher costs of electric vehicles may be offset by cheaper fuel (electricity) prices.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-01/sixt-to-drop-teslas-from-rental-car-fleet-on-poor-resale-value

Reuters, when it comes to Tesla, isn't exactly a reliable source.

 

e.g. Tesla scraps low cost car

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-scraps-low-cost-car-plans-amid-fierce-chinese-ev-competition-2024-04-05/
The above article tanked the stock; but only to turn out the sources were wrong and Tesla's shareholder meeting actually mentioned they were ahead of their planned schedule.

 

Rental car companies often cycle through their vehicles; but at the time Hertz seemed to be banking on the high resale value of the vehicles which of course tanked especially when Tesla lowered their prices by so much.  As someone in the industry who I know used to say "Rental car companies aren't really in it to rent vehicles, instead it's a way to make up for the depreciation and become a dealer"

 

It also doesn't help that people treat rental vehicles like trash, and when you have high acceleration you end up burning through tires at such a high rate [and tires are not cheap and considered something that is wear and tear of the vehicle so you can't charge a customer for it].  So yea, I do agree with the whole saving money on gas bit.

 

With EV's as well, if you get someone who has only ever driven ICE and put them in an EV the chances are a lot higher they will get into accidents because they aren't aware of just how much acceleration you can have and to that extent not used to one pedal driving.

 

It didn't help as well that Hertz made special arrangements with Uber to rent out the Tesla's.  So I wouldn't be surprised if they effectively rented them out not as a premium car but more of a standard. (But could be wrong)

 

Actually fun fact about rentals, when it was studied having insurance with a $0 deductible vs $100 deductible the amount of times vehicles came back damaged was through the roof because people didn't care enough as they knew that any damage would be acceptable without consequences.

 

Anyways, I'm not entirely sure Hertz is the best when it comes to that kind of stuff.  There was a taxi company, albeit bankrupt, that had Tesla's in their fleet; and I think their conclusion was that it had lower maintenance costs [Even Consumer reports which is generally gaming the system against a Tesla put them as the lowest maintenance cost of ownership over a 10 year period]

 

Not entirely related, but speaks volumes to Hertz in a nut-shell and why sometimes statements should be taken with a grain of salt.  A person rented an EV, purchased the gas option [return empty], returned the EV at 96% charge [you have to return it with like 90% or higher I think], and Hertz went and charged them because Hertz had to refill the car...and they even got to a person who responded that the contract was closed and the chargers stand [until the news got involved]

 

The biggest issue with a Taxi service is that employees also cost money, so diverting to a charger during a busy day costs you salary and also the fare.

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

That bit wasn't directed at you or a statement you made, but rather the other person making the statement of EV's consume more time [with things like charging]. 

They do. I cant roll up to a charging station and be fully charged in 5 minuets like I could at a gas station. Granted with an EV you may be able to charge at home. BUT if your hundreds of miles from your home you may be waiting in your car for 10s of minuets or hours for it to charge.

[Lurking]

6 hours ago, Caroline said:

This is a fun one. There was a prototype electric bus made using the chassis of an old diesel bus, a 1980s Crown Supercoach, apparently that's an US brand but the state got a lot during the 90s, probably bought as scrap, anyway, it had all new motors, the batteries were locatecd where the old diesel engine was, I think it also had a charger, I saw it irl because the main bus station is close to where I live, the Governor made a speech and all, this was around late 2016 and it was presented as the bus of the future, and said that we would have "50 more by the end of the year" (this was around October lol they had all the hopes), the chief engineer of the factory that built the motors was there too, gave a speech to thank for the funding and blah blah.

 

There was also a charger located in the station for this one bus. Of course we didn't had 50 more, or any more... however, around January 2017 the bus "went missing" after it didn't return after a round trip, it was gone, just like that, there was an investigation but it was NEVER found again, nobody knows where it went, the driver claimed he "got off to pee at the gas station" and when he got back the bus was gone, it was empty too so nobody actually disappeared with it. To the day it's one of the biggest unsolved mysteries in my area. It didn't help it was painted the same as the rest of the buses (orange) and had no particular indicators it was electric other than a green leaf decal.

 

Other than that... no one has EVs, they'd be insanely expensive to import, and there's no infrastructure to charge them, we barely have power for the few remaining industrial sites and residential areas, brownouts and blackouts are constant, so adding EVs would deep fry the grid, so that's all.

 

I do have pics but have to search for them as I keep old pics in CDs

I bet they stole the battery and parts. Hard to hide a stolen bus. Do regular buses get stolen as well?

 

Our local Metro goes to battery buses. They bought a few EV buses from a startup company that then went out if business. The other buses from traditional bus manufacturers are just converted diesel platforms. Their battery only lasts a third of a shift. So they need to keep 3 buses to do the route of one. And the heater uses DIESEL. So in Winter they use diesel like any other bus. This is an example of stupid politicians using ideology and wasting our tax money. 

 

IMHO they should wait till a reputable manufacturer designs an actual EV bus platform and brings a usable bus that can run all day. They have hybrid-Diesel buses that seem much more appropriate with today's technology.

 

And again, even poor countries managed to run electric buses with overhead lines for a hundred years You probably could put wire up over the main lines and just use a small battery for the occasional need to go to a different route. 

[thrasher_565]

7 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

You were making a blanket statement in regards to consuming more time; and I added a qualifying statement to show that it wasn't NECESSARILY the case.  Instead it's like I've mentioned many times if you are capable of charging at home it can make sense.

 

If you didn't clue in based on how I mentioned things, I was not talking about going to superchargers; instead I am basing it on the scenario where the person owning the EV would be charging from home, because as I've stated if you don't have a place to really consistently charge while doing other things like sleeping then it isn't a benefit.  I am not saying that everyone will be able to charge at home, but it's ignorant and fear mongering making statements implying that owning an EV automatically means you will spend more time dealing with it.

 

Here's the hint, if I owned an EV, I would pull into my driveway; grab the charging cable once a week maybe and plug it in and walk inside.  The next morning I would unplug it and be on my way, a total of 10 seconds spent dealing with topping up the car.  So yea, like I said, I would rather plug it in 10 times at my house than spend 3 minutes fueling it up.

 

It's a valid use case that many EV owners have, and a reason why EV owners enjoy having it.  It doesn't consume more time than ICE in many scenarios.

 

Well my point on that one was that in use-cases like that it doesn't which was my counter argument to the blanket statement made that EV's consumer more time.  When in reality it only consumes more time if one assumes no home charger; which is why I do agree with people who say they can't charge at home or work that an EV wouldn't be practical.

 

If I were to own an EV, I would in general be saving money and time and only would be inconvenienced on once or twice a year due to the range.

 

Those laws will get changed or neutered in some way...actually iirc some of those laws include vehicles that have like a 5kWh battery.  Anyways, pure EV's are not profitable really for the law to exist.  Tesla is really the only one making good enough margins, and their cheap vehicle likely is not going to be making good margins [expected next year] or will have extremely limited range.  GM and Ford both are losing money on them.  Bolt was discontinued having never really generated profits.  So when the time comes, I think the laws will be adjusted to meet the reality that EV's aren't feasible unless one is willing to hand over the full reigns to Tesla.

 

Except that's a slight failure in planning [BC is in that prediciment as well...where there was a push to cancel the building of a new hydro plant because "we are good in our power usage", where now we aren't].

 

Overall though, having higher draws balances itself overtime, looking at it short-term you might see spikes but in the long term you won't.  Overall though, as I mentioned earlier you have AI and the powerdraws from datacenters that will be pushing the grid a lot more, and car to grid technology should alleviate some of the bigger overheads that power companies have [specifically buying energy at inflated prices during short peaks].

 

That bit wasn't directed at you or a statement you made, but rather the other person making the statement of EV's consume more time [with things like charging].  I know charging at home doesn't meet your needs, but for people who do get to charge at home it can save them time compared to filling up.

 

In my case I am 15 minutes from a gas station, or ones that do I end up having either cars infront waiting for the cheaper gas or waiting for the attendant [because the one is a "full server" only]

 

Reuters, when it comes to Tesla, isn't exactly a reliable source.

 

e.g. Tesla scraps low cost car

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-scraps-low-cost-car-plans-amid-fierce-chinese-ev-competition-2024-04-05/
The above article tanked the stock; but only to turn out the sources were wrong and Tesla's shareholder meeting actually mentioned they were ahead of their planned schedule.

 

Rental car companies often cycle through their vehicles; but at the time Hertz seemed to be banking on the high resale value of the vehicles which of course tanked especially when Tesla lowered their prices by so much.  As someone in the industry who I know used to say "Rental car companies aren't really in it to rent vehicles, instead it's a way to make up for the depreciation and become a dealer"

 

It also doesn't help that people treat rental vehicles like trash, and when you have high acceleration you end up burning through tires at such a high rate [and tires are not cheap and considered something that is wear and tear of the vehicle so you can't charge a customer for it].  So yea, I do agree with the whole saving money on gas bit.

 

With EV's as well, if you get someone who has only ever driven ICE and put them in an EV the chances are a lot higher they will get into accidents because they aren't aware of just how much acceleration you can have and to that extent not used to one pedal driving.

 

It didn't help as well that Hertz made special arrangements with Uber to rent out the Tesla's.  So I wouldn't be surprised if they effectively rented them out not as a premium car but more of a standard. (But could be wrong)

 

Actually fun fact about rentals, when it was studied having insurance with a $0 deductible vs $100 deductible the amount of times vehicles came back damaged was through the roof because people didn't care enough as they knew that any damage would be acceptable without consequences.

 

Anyways, I'm not entirely sure Hertz is the best when it comes to that kind of stuff.  There was a taxi company, albeit bankrupt, that had Tesla's in their fleet; and I think their conclusion was that it had lower maintenance costs [Even Consumer reports which is generally gaming the system against a Tesla put them as the lowest maintenance cost of ownership over a 10 year period]

 

Not entirely related, but speaks volumes to Hertz in a nut-shell and why sometimes statements should be taken with a grain of salt.  A person rented an EV, purchased the gas option [return empty], returned the EV at 96% charge [you have to return it with like 90% or higher I think], and Hertz went and charged them because Hertz had to refill the car...and they even got to a person who responded that the contract was closed and the chargers stand [until the news got involved]

 

The biggest issue with a Taxi service is that employees also cost money, so diverting to a charger during a busy day costs you salary and also the fare.

never said pluging it from home is not worth it...

and it dose take more time driving an ev vs gas its not debatable. not evryware is a faster charger nor all fast chargers work and not everyone drive a tesla. there many repots of people doing long trip test and on average taking more time and moeny.

 

i get it if you go looking for bad info on ev your going to find it more so then finding good things about evs and its hard these days to get legit reviews that are paied to say good things about ev or more good things then bad. thats just how it is. so i take everything with a grane of salt these days and imo ev cost more, brake down more, take more time, and caches fire randomly...  beleave what you want im not changing imo

 

i watch 100 of videos trying to see whats up. i just watch a video on the cyber truck and all the problems it has... its not looking good...

[wanderingfool2]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

They do. I cant roll up to a charging station and be fully charged in 5 minuets like I could at a gas station. Granted with an EV you may be able to charge at home. BUT if your hundreds of miles from your home you may be waiting in your car for 10s of minuets or hours for it to charge.

But read what I stated instead of cutting out the most important part of what I stated.

 

I'm not saying that going to a supercharger is quicker or that it doesnt burn more time at a supercharger.

 

What I stated was that it's an incorrect statement to say that an EV will always take more time; otherwise you are just as bad as the people who assume everyone can charge from home.

 

Specifically I'm saying that WHEN you have the ability to charge from home it saves time compared to gassing up; and specifically why I was talking about how the majority of people who drive currently fall within the drivable distance without needing to supercharge [my neighbours are all ones who have owned a Tesla for years now and they only ever supercharged at the beginning before they brought their 240v system in].

 

That's the thing, people who can charge from home, the majority will save time because you might only need to supercharge once or twice a year.

 

19 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

never said pluging it from home is not worth it...

and it dose take more time driving an ev vs gas its not debatable. not evryware is a faster charger nor all fast chargers work and not everyone drive a tesla. there many repots of people doing long trip test and on average taking more time and moeny.

Then stop making asinine statements like you just did.

 

You literally are stating it in not so many words by saying IT DOES take more time.

 

If you are going to be that asinine about it, your way of reading I can say there are many people who end up waiting at gas stations 10 - 15 minutes each week to fill up.

 

Simple fact is, the average amount driven in Canada per year is less than 16,000km.  That's less than 45km a day on average.  The average commuter traffic to and from work is 11.9km one way.  At an average of 251 work days a year, that's about 5973km; which means on weekends people drive about 61km.

 

To put it in perspective, if you assume 800km ICE vs 300km Tesla [which again is a lower estimate of range as the cheapest Model 3 comes with 438km range].

20 time at a gas station [assumes running to empty]

185 times at home [assuming you do it every other day]

135 times if you are following a practice where you keep your battery in the most healthy state [lead degradation over time]

76 times if you don't care as much about longevity of the vehicle [which people fall into this category, and even then it's not as big of a deal]

 

Time at gas station in a year, 1 hour assuming 3 minutes.  Based on some studies based on fleets of cars [not necessarily reliable], average fill time at a gas station consumes 8 minutes (not including any detouring to get there).  So 2 hours 40 minutes.

 

EV at home charging:

185 times = 31 minutes

135 times = 22.5 minutes

76 times = 12.6 minutes

 

This assumes you buy the cheapest EV though, and not one with the longer range.

[thrasher_565]

12 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

But read what I stated instead of cutting out the most important part of what I stated.

 

I'm not saying that going to a supercharger is quicker or that it doesnt burn more time at a supercharger.

 

What I stated was that it's an incorrect statement to say that an EV will always take more time; otherwise you are just as bad as the people who assume everyone can charge from home.

 

Specifically I'm saying that WHEN you have the ability to charge from home it saves time compared to gassing up; and specifically why I was talking about how the majority of people who drive currently fall within the drivable distance without needing to supercharge [my neighbours are all ones who have owned a Tesla for years now and they only ever supercharged at the beginning before they brought their 240v system in].

 

That's the thing, people who can charge from home, the majority will save time because you might only need to supercharge once or twice a year.

 

Then stop making asinine statements like you just did.

 

You literally are stating it in not so many words by saying IT DOES take more time.

 

If you are going to be that asinine about it, your way of reading I can say there are many people who end up waiting at gas stations 10 - 15 minutes each week to fill up.

 

Simple fact is, the average amount driven in Canada per year is less than 16,000km.  That's less than 45km a day on average.  The average commuter traffic to and from work is 11.9km one way.  At an average of 251 work days a year, that's about 5973km; which means on weekends people drive about 61km.

 

To put it in perspective, if you assume 800km ICE vs 300km Tesla [which again is a lower estimate of range as the cheapest Model 3 comes with 438km range].

20 time at a gas station [assumes running to empty]

185 times at home [assuming you do it every other day]

135 times if you are following a practice where you keep your battery in the most healthy state [lead degradation over time]

76 times if you don't care as much about longevity of the vehicle [which people fall into this category, and even then it's not as big of a deal]

 

Time at gas station in a year, 1 hour assuming 3 minutes.  Based on some studies based on fleets of cars [not necessarily reliable], average fill time at a gas station consumes 8 minutes (not including any detouring to get there).  So 2 hours 40 minutes.

 

EV at home charging:

185 times = 31 minutes

135 times = 22.5 minutes

76 times = 12.6 minutes

 

This assumes you buy the cheapest EV though, and not one with the longer range.

 

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

never said pluging it from home is not worth it...

why are we still taking about charging at home... didn't you not hear what i said?

 

i would do the math with a smart car or hybid vs ev using it once a week to go grocy shopping but im not going to do that.

Edited May 20 by thrasher_565

[thrasher_565]

this seems to be what i feel well parts of it.

 

[Rocketdog2112]

Interesting read about Right to Repair when it has to with EV's...

“The EVs are much more technological, much more reliant on code, and the repairs are much more complicated,” Hanvey said. “It’s difficult enough getting them repaired today, and if you take out the aftermarket, it’s going to be even more challenging for consumers.” 

https://grist.org/transportation/tesla-and-rivian-signed-a-right-to-repair-pact-repair-advocates-are-skeptical/

[thrasher_565]

17 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

Interesting read about Right to Repair when it has to with EV's...

“The EVs are much more technological, much more reliant on code, and the repairs are much more complicated,” Hanvey said. “It’s difficult enough getting them repaired today, and if you take out the aftermarket, it’s going to be even more challenging for consumers.” 

https://grist.org/transportation/tesla-and-rivian-signed-a-right-to-repair-pact-repair-advocates-are-skeptical/

ya there a problem of fixing it, getting parts, getting loners when your car is in the shop.

 

a good video about ev and good points and yes i admit i was wrong about how long a battery will last...but it still cost alot to replace.

 

the problem is there no affordable ev for the mass atm. people on minim wage cant afford an ev and barely afford a car...

[Lurking]

52 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

this seems to be what i feel well parts of it.

 

He isn't wrong for his use case. But if we assume 200 mile real life range, I bet most people will stop to pee and walk around a bit. But I also see that if you do frequent long distance high speed trips, charging will be an issue with current EV. Again, you have to decide what you need a car for. 

 

But I'm optimistic. 2010 we had the Nissan Leaf with 70 miles of range and slow charging. Today we have 200 mile EV and fast charging. In 5 years we may have many real life 300 mile EV. That plus more chargers at good locations should make even longer distances travel reasonable. 

 

EV also will suffer the electronics buyers remorse. If you buy one today, you know in 1-2 years you would have gotten a quite bit better EV. They still are in development and big improvements are expected. The ICE you can buy any time since there won't really be an inherent improvement anymore after 100 years (ICE probably will get worse due to more plastic, CVT, plastic parts, and so on). 

[thrasher_565]

1 minute ago, Lurking said:

He isn't wrong for his use case. But if we assume 200 mile real life range, I bet most people will stop to pee and walk around a bit. But I also see that if you do frequent long distance high speed trips, charging will be an issue with current EV. Again, you have to decide what you need a car for. 

 

But I'm optimistic. 2010 we had the Nissan Leaf with 70 miles of range and slow charging. Today we have 200 mile EV and fast charging. In 5 years we may have many real life 300 mile EV. That plus more chargers at good locations should make even longer distances travel reasonable. 

i agree with this just ev (if i drive) is not for me yet. simple as that. i make more then minim wage but if i did own a car i would have no moeny. and im lucky in my rent. if i was not lucky im above minume and cant afford a car.

 

today if you drive your not garented a better paying job. i think people at work are crazy that they drive and make minim wage... i dont no maybe its just me.

 

im not paying like 2x more for gas station food im sory. (i work in a store i no the value of food)

[Caroline]

6 hours ago, Lurking said:

I bet they stole the battery and parts. Hard to hide a stolen bus. Do regular buses get stolen as well?

 

Our local Metro goes to battery buses. They bought a few EV buses from a startup company that then went out if business. The other buses from traditional bus manufacturers are just converted diesel platforms. Their battery only lasts a third of a shift. So they need to keep 3 buses to do the route of one. And the heater uses DIESEL. So in Winter they use diesel like any other bus. This is an example of stupid politicians using ideology and wasting our tax money. 

 

IMHO they should wait till a reputable manufacturer designs an actual EV bus platform and brings a usable bus that can run all day. They have hybrid-Diesel buses that seem much more appropriate with today's technology.

 

And again, even poor countries managed to run electric buses with overhead lines for a hundred years You probably could put wire up over the main lines and just use a small battery for the occasional need to go to a different route. 

That's the theory. No one sane would steal one a regular bus, the mechanics do miracles and a foundry manufactures the spare parts, but some of them are 50 years old by now, there's one with a hole in the floor that was patched using plywood until the welder can fix it. There's also Isuzu buses from the 80s but I like the Crown ones more, the round headlights and the stench of fuel inside during cold days make them special, used to come with fluorescent tubes inside but now they're all 12 volt LED strips.

 

It was fun while it lasted.

[Lurking]

17 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

i agree with this just ev (if i drive) is not for me yet. simple as that. i make more then minim wage but if i did own a car i would have no moeny. and im lucky in my rent. if i was not lucky im above minume and cant afford a car.

 

today if you drive your not garented a better paying job. i think people at work are crazy that they drive and make minim wage... i dont no maybe its just me.

 

im not paying like 2x more for gas station food im sory. (i work in a store i no the value of food)

Not sure what your market is. But here in the US all EV are big/luxury SUV and trucks. That kind if takes all economics out of the equation. The only smaller EV is a Nissan, which isn't great at all. The other small Chevy Bolt disappeared and also wasn't that great (is on an ICE platform with hacked GM design). Everything else kind of starts at $40K. 

 

If I had to replace my car today, I would like something like a Corolla Hatchback or even smaller from a reputable manufacturer. But there are no EV in that size, or from a reputable manufacturer. So if today someone steals my car, I have no choice than to buy an ICE  Corolla. My hope is no one steals my car, and in 5 years there will be small and good EV.

 

So you are totally right, today there are no EV that are economical (a $40+K car isn't economical for just myself driving around).

 

It is funny to see those paid reviewers bragging about how cheap it is to charge those $80K EV they get for free. First, charging on a public charger cost much more than at home. Second, if you can afford an $80K car plus the tires it eats every day, you shouldn't worry about if gas or electricity cost $30 less to fill up.

[thrasher_565]

15 minutes ago, Lurking said:

Not sure what your market is. But here in the US all EV are big/luxury SUV and trucks. That kind if takes all economics out of the equation. The only smaller EV is a Nissan, which isn't great at all. The other small Chevy Bolt disappeared and also wasn't that great (is on an ICE platform with hacked GM design). Everything else kind of starts at $40K. 

 

If I had to replace my car today, I would like something like a Corolla Hatchback or even smaller from a reputable manufacturer. But there are no EV in that size, or from a reputable manufacturer. So if today someone steals my car, I have no choice than to buy an ICE  Corolla. My hope is no one steals my car, and in 5 years there will be small and good EV.

 

So you are totally right, today there are no EV that are economical (a $40+K car isn't economical for just myself driving around).

 

It is funny to see those paid reviewers bragging about how cheap it is to charge those $80K EV they get for free. First, charging on a public charger cost much more than at home. Second, if you can afford an $80K car plus the tires it eats every day, you shouldn't worry about if gas or electricity cost $30 less to fill up.

the manufacturer get better deals if they make big cars thats why there no small ev are made

i thought the volt was good and in my eys would have been the car i would get. but im guessing they get kick backs by going all ev so...

 

we will see if the edison hybid will be a thing or not we need something we are not thowing out all the worlds gas trucks... and we all cant drink pepsi...

 

to get the car guy on bord let them put ev kits in there 69 nova and just have then sing there life away. move the fuge along like the uk is doing. posably some place in the us alows this but im not from the use and im like 99% shur there nothing in Canada.

 

im my city there alot of ev like alot. thow its a more richer city.

[Donut417]

38 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

but im guessing they get kick backs by going all ev so...

SUVs and pickup trucks fall under light duty trucks. As a result they don’t have to follow the same safety and emission standards as sedans if I recall correctly. Most car buyers are under the impression that bigger means safer. 

[Lurking]

34 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

SUVs and pickup trucks fall under light duty trucks. As a result they don’t have to follow the same safety and emission standards as sedans if I recall correctly. Most car buyers are under the impression that bigger means safer. 

Wagon = "car" and has a very hard time meeting emission and mileage requirements. But slap some ugly plastic on it, lift it 5mm and call it lifestyle vehicle and all of sudden the same vehicle is $5K more, is classified as a truck, and doesn't need to meet strict emission and safety requirements and provides CAFE credit.

 

I swear half of climate change is just from those stupid EPA rules.

[thrasher_565]

16 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

SUVs and pickup trucks fall under light duty trucks. As a result they don’t have to follow the same safety and emission standards as sedans if I recall correctly. Most car buyers are under the impression that bigger means safer. 

it all about the suv, truck and mini van. and all about range witch need big battery witch need a big veical. and they get kick backs to do so. its the same with gas they were pushing for bigger and bigger cars but you could still buy a small car was the point.

[MadAnt250]

Oh no! I found out this thread exists. I must resist the urge to inform people the facts about EV's. I will watch for now, instead of pissing off the electric car cultists.

[Rocketdog2112]

3 hours ago, Lurking said:

The ICE you can buy any time since there won't really be an inherent improvement anymore after 100 years (ICE probably will get worse due to more plastic, CVT, plastic parts, and so on). 

Yeah... shame on my ICE engine (2005 Toyota 4Runner 4.7l V8) with nearly 300,000 miles and still doesn't use a drop of oil or has cost me nothing more than regular oil changes and a set of spark plugs every 100,000 miles. I've spent more on replacing tires than any maintenence or repair costs.

And you keep harping on CVT's, which is a transmission that has very limited use in the automotive industry.

[Beerzerker]

2 hours ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

Yeah... shame on my ICE engine (2005 Toyota 4Runner 4.7l V8) with nearly 300,000 miles and still doesn't use a drop of oil or has cost me nothing more than regular oil changes and a set of spark plugs every 100,000 miles. I've spent more on replacing tires than any maintenence or repair costs.

Same here for what I've got.
Basically no real maintenance costs to mention based on whether it's an ICE or EV vehicle aside from the usual. I just hop in and go. 
I do have some work to do on the pickup but it's a minor problem at worst and already have the part just waiting to be installed.
BTW it's got 300,000 itself and doesn't use oil between changes - Still runs like a top TBH.
 

2 hours ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

And you keep harping on CVT's, which is a transmission that has very limited use in the automotive industry.

I can say about CVT's.... I wouldn't really put it as limited use aside from whether it's for passenger or heavy duty use.
To that point, CVT's DO NOT like being under a strain for too long which pulling/towing would subject them to.

I can also say related to efficiency, my pickup being a 4.3 Ltr V6/5-speed/4x4 truck gets better mileage than my daily ride which is a 4 banger with a CVT - Does that either from just driving around or while pulling my trailer with my 54' zero-turn mower on it.
The thing I've noted about a CVT is how "Downshift Happy" they are and mine does want to gear/ratio down alot. On the interstate it's fine but for regular driving around town it likes to do that but my pickup (Of course) doesn't gear up or down unless I want it to.

I'm thinking that factors in to maybe why it's mileage is worse but could be other things involved too. As for how the car runs, does great and it's also mantained as required to keep it in good running shape.

[wanderingfool2]

On 5/20/2024 at 8:22 AM, thrasher_565 said:

 

why are we still taking about charging at home... didn't you not hear what i said?

 

i would do the math with a smart car or hybid vs ev using it once a week to go grocy shopping but im not going to do that.

Because your statements right after, and the other posts you made clearly state otherwise.

 

 

No one is denying that on road trips that supercharging can take longer, but to qualify it into a statement that includes all types of driving that owning an EV will always consume more time.

 

Even on road trips, it doesn't have to take longer.  The trips I go on if I purchased the LR models I technically could just charge when I hit the hotel room.

 

You are attributing a scenario as though it applies to all people in a statement that EV's always take more time.  I wouldn't have an issue if you actually said things like if you don't charge, or while on road trips...but you didn't instead you qualified it by making a statement that owning an EV will consume more time....which is not a true statement.

 

Your previous posts have shown an utter lack of basic level of knowledge given that in the same original post you stated about batteries being needed to be replaced every 5 years.

 

[QuantumSingularity]

Well it's now 2 weeks that i live entirely with EVs and if anything, my mind has changed for the worse. Especially with extensive euro-style city driving. Frequent acceleration and braking at the red lights, combined with the use of an AC and the big number of short trips really tanks the range. Day before yesterday the battery of the Renault dropped to 5% just 75km into our trips. Started 100%, showing 184km of range, barely made it back to our HQ and had to cancel half of the orders. With the Ioniq, the situation is just a very tiny bit better, but still absolutely pathetic when i put 200+kg worth of stuff in the back. And yes, i regularly run even double that in my daily car with no problem. Yes it increases the consumption of ICE vehicle as well, but with these battery EVs it turns them basically into RC cars. Went to a client 90kms away and the battery was exactly in the middle. All the time drove at 130km/h (10km UNDER our highway speed limit) and was hauling 10 canisters with refrigerant gas, 21kgs each and thanks to reducing the weight in half on the way back managed to get home with 13% battery. EV fanatics would say this is not what EVs are for, BUT in order for them to be a viable solution, they have to be able to perform in any scenario. Yes, if you only haul your own a** around for 30km max a day, any EV would make sense. But for people with more active life, currently they are not a solution and honestly, i don't see them EVER becoming one. Once again i am talking battery only EVs. Have nothing against hybrids and already made it quite clear that i am a serious proponent of hydrogen. Whether it's in HFC form or H2 conversion kit for diesel engines, i absolutely approve of it.

[Lurking]

13 hours ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Well it's now 2 weeks that i live entirely with EVs and if anything, my mind has changed for the worse. Especially with extensive euro-style city driving. Frequent acceleration and braking at the red lights, combined with the use of an AC and the big number of short trips really tanks the range. Day before yesterday the battery of the Renault dropped to 5% just 75km into our trips. Started 100%, showing 184km of range, barely made it back to our HQ and had to cancel half of the orders. With the Ioniq, the situation is just a very tiny bit better, but still absolutely pathetic when i put 200+kg worth of stuff in the back. And yes, i regularly run even double that in my daily car with no problem. Yes it increases the consumption of ICE vehicle as well, but with these battery EVs it turns them basically into RC cars. Went to a client 90kms away and the battery was exactly in the middle. All the time drove at 130km/h (10km UNDER our highway speed limit) and was hauling 10 canisters with refrigerant gas, 21kgs each and thanks to reducing the weight in half on the way back managed to get home with 13% battery. EV fanatics would say this is not what EVs are for, BUT in order for them to be a viable solution, they have to be able to perform in any scenario. Yes, if you only haul your own a** around for 30km max a day, any EV would make sense. But for people with more active life, currently they are not a solution and honestly, i don't see them EVER becoming one. Once again i am talking battery only EVs. Have nothing against hybrids and already made it quite clear that i am a serious proponent of hydrogen. Whether it's in HFC form or H2 conversion kit for diesel engines, i absolutely approve of it.

Ironically city and short trip driving is where EV actually shine compared to ICE. On fast speed ICE actually do better than in City, and EV do worse. 

 

Do you by any chance know how many kWh those batteries have? Are those by any chance short range versions?

 

I just looked up the distances of the longest trips I did with the Chevrolet Bolt we have at work. It is 122 miles (196 km) rountrip. I don't recall exactly how empty the car was, but it may have had 40 miles left. So the real World Interstate range driving 70 mph (120 km)h) may be around 150 miles (241 km) if you are brave enough to run close to empty. That car also is limited to 50 kW DC fast charging (if you can call it fast ..). So it is fine if you drive near home, but definitely not good for longer distance.

 

And here is the kicker with the Bolt: see the real World 150 miles range. The dash shows 3 ranges (no explanation what each means). The lowest shows 180 miles, the highest shows 260 miles. So even relying on the lowest range estimate will leave you stranded. To be fair, the Bolt came to the market in 2016 and is discontinued. So you should not use it as an example for new EV you can buy in 2024. But the unrealistic range estimates are concerning.