Your experience with EVs and are you ready to do the jump.

[Lurking]

9 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

well tesla charging stations are the best there still not perfect like your calming they are. sounds like your cherry picking the "best" scenario 50% to 80% in 3 minuts might work one time but i dout it will work 10... just saying thats why you average things out and it takes more time in average vs gas.

 

ya nothing agents charging at home its grate for that.

 

on average ev cost more simply put.

 

how much dose it cost for the "newest" tech? seems like there a cost to the abilay to charge fast? pay to win

One problem with fast chargers is they are not near gas stations or places to hang out on road trips. They often are in nowhere. So you have to stop for charging, and then again for bathroom. This is more a political decision though 

 

You won't believe how often a family of four is stopping on a road trip to pee, drink coffee or eat. If all those Interstate rest stops, Starbucks or gas stations had fast chargers, you really only needed to add 10 minutes for charging to your normal resting time. I think that placement of chargers is bad.

 

If you buy an EV today, definitely buy one with NACS plug, and research your local or road trip charging network. I personally wait some more years and I'm confident it will become very practical in a few years. It won't take decades.

[thrasher_565]

11 minutes ago, Lurking said:

One problem with fast chargers is they are not near gas stations or places to hang out on road trips. They often are in nowhere. So you have to stop for charging, and then again for bathroom. This is more a political decision though 

 

You won't believe how often a family of four is stopping on a road trip to pee, drink coffee or eat. If all those Interstate rest stops, Starbucks or gas stations had fast chargers, you really only needed to add 10 minutes for charging to your normal resting time. I think that placement of chargers is bad.

 

If you buy an EV today, definitely buy one with NACS plug, and research your local or road trip charging network. I personally wait some more years and I'm confident it will become very practical in a few years. It won't take decades.

there alot of people that are waiting for cost to go down and wate times to decrees it will with time then more people will buy evs. but alot of people also dont think its there yet like myself.

 

but what likely will happen is you wont be able to get a gas car so forced in to ev or price of gas will cost too much and forced in to ev weather you want to or not. same with going green. you will put solar on your house or go pound sand.

[Lurking]

9 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

there alot of people that are waiting for cost to go down and wate times to decrees it will with time then more people will buy evs. but alot of people also dont think its there yet like myself.

 

but what likely will happen is you wont be able to get a gas car so forced in to ev or price of gas will cost too much and forced in to ev weather you want to or not. same with going green. you will put solar on your house or go pound sand.

I'm not aware of actually enacted US laws outlawing ICE cars. So at this point it is a market decision if ICE become unavailable. And I doubt there will be a lack of ICE for 10-20 years. So no need to lose sleep now.

 

FWIW, we have EV Bolt at work. And I definitely like not having shift points or any stepped torque you have with ICE. You need to buy a really expensive ICE to not even get close to the smooth power delivery of even a cheap EV like the Bolt. Low center of gravity also helps. I definitely want one once I feel more comfortable they are mature.

 

Even if you don't want to buy an EV, drive one if you have the opportunity. They drive really nice.

[thrasher_565]

3 minutes ago, Lurking said:

I'm not aware of actually enacted US laws outlawing ICE cars. So at this point it is a market decision if ICE become unavailable. And I doubt there will be a lack of ICE for 10-20 years. So no need to lose sleep now.

 

FWIW, we have EV Bolt at work. And I definitely like not having shift points or any stepped torque you have with ICE. You need to buy a really expensive ICE to not even get close to the smooth power delivery of even a cheap EV like the Bolt. Low center of gravity also helps. I definitely want one once I feel more comfortable they are mature.

 

Even if you don't want to buy an EV, drive one if you have the opportunity. They drive really nice.

ya not disagreeing on ev are just better they are just...has problems...

they are braking records.

i dont drive so... my dad or sister will most likey have a ev at some point i think my dad said something about a hybrid rav 4? i dont remember... well he singed up to get it he could sell it thow and make some moeny. $50.000 for a car i think is alot but he dose deserve it thow worked hard all his life driving.  my mom wont drive it thow

 

not as bad as my sister buying a new van for $80,000... i just dont get it

[TetraSky]

I'm still paying my gas powered car off. I'm hoping in 5 years time there will be more chargers available.

In my area, in walking distance, there's 2. And they are always used.

If my job implemented chargers in the parking lot, I might consider one.

But really... I'm in Canada. Our cold weather isn't great for current battery tech.

A hybrid sounds a lot more attractive to me. Especially considering I drive less than 30km per day, 3 days a week. A hybrid with a battery range of 60 miles would be plenty for my needs in a week of work. With the added option of having gas in the winter if the battery just dies.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Higher grid demand will not mean electricity will keep costing more,

Yes it does. Its forcing power providers to make their network better. Its not just about power generation its also an issue with transmission and reliability. In the last year Detroit Edison raised rates twice. And are seeking a 3rd rate increase. America's electrical grid is pretty fucking old at this point. The power company is not going to be the one picking up the tab for upgrades.

 

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

nd ignoring waiting in line and the fact that you might have to detour your route to get to a gas station].

Never have to do that. The gas station I go to is on my way home. Shit there are gas stations on every corner at this point.

 

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Now if you decide to stick between 50 - 80% charge; you will need to plug it in ~10 times vs 1 ICE fill up. 

Thats the issue. I can fill up once and be good. I fill up once a week and thats about a quarter to half a tank depending on how much driving I do. Until EV's can be charged in the same amount of time many are not going to want them. Im not siting for 10s of minuet waiting for one to charge. Charging at home is not always an option.

[Needfuldoer]

13 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Charging at home is not always an option.

And that's unfortunate, because if you can charge at home your car is always "full". No it won't recharge in 2 seconds, but it's parked a lot longer than that. Why not plug it in when you're not driving it anyway?

 

The "workflow" for an EV is different from an ICE car, and trying to make one work like an ICE car (make a special trip to a station to fill it up in a few minutes once a week) just creates unrealistic expectations and misconceptions. I've talked to people who thought having an EV meant you had to install a Tesla supercharger at your house and makes your electric meter look like Clark Griswold's. 

[Lurking]

29 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

And that's unfortunate, because if you can charge at home your car is always "full". No it won't recharge in 2 seconds, but it's parked a lot longer than that. Why not plug it in when you're not driving it anyway?

 

The "workflow" for an EV is different from an ICE car, and trying to make one work like an ICE car (make a special trip to a station to fill it up in a few minutes once a week) just creates unrealistic expectations and misconceptions. I've talked to people who thought having an EV meant you had to install a Tesla supercharger at your house and makes your electric meter look like Clark Griswold's. 

This.

 

100 + years ago when steam, gasoline and battery cars were available, it was inconceivable that gasoline would win out. You could charge your electric car in most houses and it drove easily. The gasoline cars had to be crank-started, required to buy an explosive fluid purchased in pharmacies, were noisy and stinky, and required a driver who was a mechanic because the ICE needed constant maintenance and repair and shifting and braking required lot of effort. Then ICE technology improved, gasoline (that was a waste product before) became widely available. 

[thrasher_565]

7 minutes ago, Lurking said:

This.

 

100 + years ago when steam, gasoline and battery cars were available, it was inconceivable that gasoline would win out. You could charge your electric car in most houses and it drove easily. The gasoline cars had to be crank-started, required to buy an explosive fluid purchased in pharmacies, were noisy and stinky, and required a driver who was a mechanic because the ICE needed constant maintenance and repair and shifting and braking required lot of effort. Then ICE technology improved, gasoline (that was a waste product before) became widely available. 

ya there was tech back then but big oil and gas killed it. there "legally" 200mpg cars, there was ev back then and the gyro bus as well as a lot of other tech. the there the forbidden stuff like h2o and running on fums as well as wood gas or well tire gas and other stuff. then there the green diesel engen witch can take a vriaty of fuels. but nothing is doable because of the regulations and fda.  (there other stuff i cant talk about but) lets just say we could be off grind in like the 60s...

[Lurking]

1 minute ago, thrasher_565 said:

ya there was tech back then but big oil and gas killed it. there "legally" 200mpg cars, there was ev back then and the gyro bus as well as a lot of other tech. the there the forbidden stuff like h2o and running on fums as well as wood gas or well tire gas and other stuff. then there the green diesel engen witch can take a vriaty of fuels. but nothing is doable because of the regulations and fda.  (there other stuff i cant talk about but) lets just say we could be off grind in like the 60s...

I think most of what you list just didn't turn out to be practical compared to a gasoline engine. Not regulations 

 

Most people don't want to put some cubic feet of wood into their wood gas car, then start the gas process 30 minutes before they want to leave. And keep feeding wood as they drive around at 20 mph. It isn't always conspiracy or regulation that kills a technology 

[thrasher_565]

11 minutes ago, Lurking said:

I think most of what you list just didn't turn out to be practical compared to a gasoline engine. Not regulations 

 

Most people don't want to put some cubic feet of wood into their wood gas car, then start the gas process 30 minutes before they want to leave. And keep feeding wood as they drive around at 20 mph. It isn't always conspiracy or regulation that kills a technology 

wood gas is just a concept just like the gas engen was at some point then got ferther improved on well wood gas has not been improved on. like i said there alot more i cant talk about n tesla had some patents...

 

diesel engen was going some were but then the media was like do we like using land to grow crops for gas vs food... same problem with h20 we dont have enough water for food but here we want to use it as gas.  i can pm you some stuff i guess?

 

Edited May 19 by thrasher_565

[Lurking]

33 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

wood gas is just a concept just like the gas engen was at some point then got ferther improved on well wood gas has not been improved on. like i said there alot more i cant talk about n tesla had some patents...

 

diesel engen was going some were but then the media was like do we like using land to grow crops for gas vs food... same problem with h20 we dont have enough water for food but here we want to use it as gas.  i can pm you some stuff i guess?

 

Wood carburetion was used by Germany during WWII due to fuel shortages. It works. But it isn't economical nor practical. You still need an ICE with all it's problems, and then you add a wood gasification vessel, which is big and cumbersome to use. And you need a low energy density fuel like wood. Even with modern technology, a car would have to give up the entire trunk for gasification and some wood and had to stop every few dozen miles to get more wood. I don't think the typical soccer mom wants to deal with that. The original EV1 was a more practical vehicle 

 

Can't overcome the reality of thermodynamics and energy density.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Needfuldoer said:

Tesla supercharger at your house and makes y

The only way Id be comfortable with an EV is with a level 2 changer. Plus having a good place to park to get charged. I dont always get to park in my normal space. Running wires long distance isnt really a solution.

[Needfuldoer]

6 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The only way Id be comfortable with an EV is with a level 2 changer. Plus having a good place to park to get charged. I dont always get to park in my normal space. Running wires long distance isnt really a solution.

And a "level 2 charger" is just a 240 volt circuit, same as an electric oven or dryer. They're basically just a couple contactors connected to a circuit that's just smart enough to kill power when you press the release trigger on the J1772 plug. The actual charger which converts that to DC and shoves it into the battery pack is built into the car. 

 

I've talked to people who thought the only way to charge at home is with industrial grade DC fast charging hardware. Just one of the many FUD talking points that need to be debunked in every conversation, like the old "you have to replace the $20,000 battery every 5 years" fable...

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

And a "level 2 charger" is just a 240 volt circuit, same as an electric oven or dryer.

1 we dont use electric oven or dryer. 2 I think our electrical panel is about filled. 3 Where id have to potentially put the charger would probably cause a tripping hazard on the wires. Like I said prevouosly, our garage is not for parking and doesnt have 220v ran to it.  I dont always get to park in the same spot. Which would make it a challenge to charge.

[Lurking]

No one is using Level 3 fast chargers at home and no normal home has the utility connection for that. Nor is it needed assuming you spend a few hours at home. Level 2 may take 5-7 hours to charge an EV from 0 to 100%. People sleep longer than that and also don't use up the full battery in a day at home. It also isn't good for the battery to fast charge all the time. 

 

No offense, but anyone wanting fast charging at their home should inform themselves first before bashing EV. It is like saying an ICE is only practical if I can do a Formula 1 pitstop and fill the tank in 2 seconds. Not needed nor is it practical for normal people.

 

If you have a 200 A panel and NOTHING ELSE CONNECTED, a new home can supply about 38 kW. A fast charger requires 150+ kW and obviously most homes also have AC etc. I don't even think anyone makes a DC fast charger under 480V. 

[thrasher_565]

43 minutes ago, Lurking said:

No one is using Level 3 fast chargers at home and no normal home has the utility connection for that. Nor is it needed assuming you spend a few hours at home. Level 2 may take 5-7 hours to charge an EV from 0 to 100%. People sleep longer than that and also don't use up the full battery in a day at home. It also isn't good for the battery to fast charge all the time. 

 

No offense, but anyone wanting fast charging at their home should inform themselves first before bashing EV. It is like saying an ICE is only practical if I can do a Formula 1 pitstop and fill the tank in 2 seconds. Not needed nor is it practical for normal people.

 

If you have a 200 A panel and NOTHING ELSE CONNECTED, a new home can supply about 38 kW. A fast charger requires 150+ kW and obviously most homes also have AC etc. I don't even think anyone makes a DC fast charger under 480V. 

taxi driver need fast charging as they try and run there cars 247 when posable for well more moeny...

Edited May 20 by thrasher_565

[Lurking]

51 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

taxi driver need fast charging as they try and run there cars 247 when posable for well more moeny...

I was talking about a home. Taxi drivers charge wherever they drive and don't go home to charge the car in the middle of the shift. 

[thrasher_565]

7 minutes ago, Lurking said:

I was talking about a home. Taxi drivers charge wherever they drive and don't go home to charge the car in the middle of the shift. 

my dad takes his taxi home... so do millions of other people. big company's might have a charging spot but i have not looked in to that nor did my dad. the price for a ev is too hi to be a taxi at lest were he lives. best case snareo is a big company come in a buy it out and all controls all the cars. i guess they can sit at a charging station when waiting for a trip

 

the reliability is not there. and they catch fire just siting there not the mechtion runing 247...

Edited May 20 by thrasher_565

[Lurking]

11 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

my dad takes his taxi home... so do millions of other people. big company's might have a charging spot but i have not looked in to that nor did my dad. the price for a ev is too hi to be a taxi at lest were he lives. best case snareo is a big company come in a buy it out and all controls all the cars. i guess they can sit at a charging station when waiting for a trip

 

the reliability is not there. and they catch fire just siting there not the mechtion runing 247...

If your dad takes his taxi home, I assume he owns it. So it isn't driving 24/7. If it truly is a 24/7 taxi, he would hand it off to the next shift.

 

I see some cabs and Uber EV around here. Taxis may be company owned and used by multiple drivers. Uber)Lyft usually are private and only drive part of the day. For Many City miles an EV actually is quite economical. The high upfront cost gets spread over many miles and the mileage of an EV in a City is excellent unlike City mileage of an ICE car.

 

I think a lot what people say about EV today they said about hybrids 15 years ago. And like back then, it is based on no actual experience or knowledge. If you see a car used in frequent taxi service, you at least have an indication it has potential for longevity and economy. If they weren't reliable or economical, they wouldn't be in a taxi fleet for very long.

[thrasher_565]

10 minutes ago, Lurking said:

If your dad takes his taxi home, I assume he owns it. So it isn't driving 24/7. If it truly is a 24/7 taxi, he would hand it off to the next shift.

 

I see some cabs and Uber EV around here. Taxis may be company owned and used by multiple drivers. Uber)Lyft usually are private and only drive part of the day. For Many City miles an EV actually is quite economical. The high upfront cost gets spread over many miles and the mileage of an EV in a City is excellent unlike City mileage of an ICE car.

 

I think a lot what people say about EV today they said about hybrids 15 years ago. And like back then, it is based on no actual experience or knowledge. If you see a car used in frequent taxi service, you at least have an indication it has potential for longevity and economy. If they weren't reliable or economical, they wouldn't be in a taxi fleet for very long.

ya hes an owner and the night time driver parks there car at his house and take the taxi. the comapy dose not have space to park cars at the head qurtors and there talks of over seas that...

 

 

well he gose thow a car in like 3 years i think but he cant find low milage cars they all start at like 120k normally he bee looking at like 40-60k so buing a car is an added cost when buying a $50,000 ev evry 3 years is not doable unless your a big company or in a big city were you make more money. he also has back up cars in case one gose down so thats another added cost.

 

ya the hybrids were that good and yout right is was un known but big comapys normally dive in first and my dad talks with them what they like about the new stuff.

Edited May 20 by thrasher_565

[Spotty]

9 minutes ago, Lurking said:

If you see a car used in frequent taxi service, you at least have an indication it has potential for longevity and economy. If they weren't reliable or economical, they wouldn't be in a taxi fleet for very long.

On that point, some rental car companies are phasing out and selling off Tesla's due to high upfront cost, high maintenance/repair costs, and low resale value. Though, one key difference of rental cars from taxis is the person renting the car is paying for fuel/recharge out of their own pocket. The rental company isn't benefiting from electric charging being cheaper than fuel. For a taxi service the higher costs of electric vehicles may be offset by cheaper fuel (electricity) prices.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-01/sixt-to-drop-teslas-from-rental-car-fleet-on-poor-resale-value

[Lurking]

8 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

ya hes an owner and the night time driver parks there car at his house and take the taxi. the comapy dose not have space to park cars at the head qurtors and there talks of over seas that...

 

 

well he gose thow a car in like 3 years i think but he cant find low milage cars they all start at like 120k normally he bee looking at like 40-60k so buing a car is an added cost when buying a $50,000 ev evry 3 years is not doable unless your a big company or in a big city were you make more money. he also has back up cars in case one gose down so thats another added cost.

 

ya the hybrids were that good and yout right is was un known but big comapys normally dive in first and my dad talks with them what they like about the new stuff.

Some cab companies here do the same buying cheap old cars and driving them till the wheels fall off. In return they use more fuel and repair. Other companies buy new Prius and Tesla to take advantage of less operating cost in return for higher upfront cost. Different business models. 

 

I guess it is the same for private cars. It needs both new car buyers that sell the car as used later. And they need those used car buyers who takes that old car off their hand. Symbiosis.

 

Ultimately the car companies are in the business if selling new cars. So that is what they try to appeal to.

[Lurking]

19 minutes ago, Spotty said:

On that point, some rental car companies are phasing out and selling off Tesla's due to high upfront cost, high maintenance/repair costs, and low resale value. Though, one key difference of rental cars from taxis is the person renting the car is paying for fuel/recharge out of their own pocket. The rental company isn't benefiting from electric charging being cheaper than fuel. For a taxi service the higher costs of electric vehicles may be offset by cheaper fuel (electricity) prices.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-01/sixt-to-drop-teslas-from-rental-car-fleet-on-poor-resale-value

I think Hertz had jumped the gun and went for the green creds. But someone renting doesn't care about green. And when you rent far away from home, you are not familiar with local charging, or how far you can drive on a charge.

 

I don't know if they had an account with Tesla to use their chargers or how they accounted for that. I suspect some potential renters were unsure about those details.

 

And an EV really is economical if you charge at home. That isn't the case for rentals. 

 

If I owned an EV, it sure would take me some weeks to feel comfortable going on a trip that exceeds the range and find out chargers etc. And when you rent, you often drive very far. So the cards were a bit stacked against rental EV.

 

I know the Chevy Bolt at work don't show remaining mileage correctly on the Interstate. I take them to 1 hour away and back and my my navigation shows me 2 Miles travelled while the Bolt drops 3 miles. I once even turned off heat since I got close to empty and didn't want to find out what happens at 0 miles left while driving. GM plays a dangerous game by being overly optimistic with the remaining miles estimate. I would err on the more conservative side.

 

I rent a car on vacation and usually think I can't trust what the person behind the counter tells me how easy charging allegedly is. Because if I drive in unknown area with an unknown car I don't know real life range, I don't want to rely on a charger maybe existing or not. This is not an issue with a car I personally chose to buy and have experience with. 

[thrasher_565]

6 minutes ago, Lurking said:

Some cab companies here do the same buying cheap old cars and driving them till the wheels fall off. In return they use more fuel and repair. Other companies buy new Prius and Tesla to take advantage of less operating cost in return for higher upfront cost. Different business models. 

 

I guess it is the same for private cars. It needs both new car buyers that sell the car as used later. And they need those used car buyers who takes that old car off their hand. Symbiosis.

 

Ultimately the car companies are in the business if selling new cars. So that is what they try to appeal to.

ya some company's need to have the car a serten year or newer some dont have that limit. problem is the use market is not there and when they get hit there totaled un like gas you can kinda fix em or use part off of it. ev no one is fixing em and ensrance wont allow you too. i dont no i gues i need to try and look what big comapanys do with evs do they buy em new run them a few years and ditch em?

 

well theys used crown vics for the logest time and the get em for poleace  auctions but they stooped and moved to impala witch were bad cars. then the moved to the honda pries witch were used cars from people. and they were too reliable... like 200k for brakes or something like that...