HDR400 vs HDR10

[3llyas]

So some of the monitor I found with similar pricing has these different features. My question is, is it worth it to pay that little bit extra for HDR400 instead of HDR10 and are they that different? 

[ChrisLoudon]

29 minutes ago, 3llyas said:

So some of the monitor I found with similar pricing has these different features. My question is, is it worth it to pay that little bit extra for HDR400 instead of HDR10 and are they that different? 

Vanilla HDR is sometimes referred to as HDR10.

 

HDR 10+ and Dolby Vision are somewhat comparable as their HDR meta data is dynamic.

 

HLG is HDR for broadcast services like SkyQ in the UK.

 

HDR400, 600, 800, 1000..... is really the display manufacture shouting about the peak brightness of their display (in Nits). The brighter the better really but don't pay much attention to that as there will be lots of other factors.

 

I have a Philips Momentum display that has an HDR1000 setting. HDR on this screen is utter garbage!

[johnt]

HDR400 is a VESA standard for the expected peak brightness of a screen. It basically helps consumers figure out how "good" a panel is by a simple measurement of peak brightness in HDR mode. There is HDR400, HDR600, and HDR1000. The higher the number, usually the better the HDR experience. Before this, there was no standard method of determining brightness and comparing between displays. Manufacturers could report whatever they wanted in the brightness measurements. And technically they still can. But unstandardized testing would mean they cannot use the HDR400/600/1000 logos and advertise it. So if you do not see these logos advertised on a product, then the brightness claims might be determined in a different way that could bump up the numbers.

 

HDR10 is an HDR standard. It is not a measurement of anything the television can produce. HDR10 is a free alternative to Dolby Vision HDR. These are standards that panels can support... a simple yes or no. Most monitors only support HDR. Dolby Vision is typically found on higher end television products from LG and Sony. No, not Samsung. HDR10+ is another standard that is supposed to mimic Dolby Vision a little better, but I have not seen a huge differentiation between HDR10 and HDR10+ in terms of content.

[johnt]

1 minute ago, ChrisLoudon said:

have a Philips Momentum display that has an HDR1000 setting. HDR on this screen is utter garbage!

Normally I am a huge fan of Philips products. But after owning an LG OLED tv... I cannot see myself going to any other brand. I ran from Samsung after the hot mess of "we will support HDR10+ on your panel" articles and then they NEVER delivered. Oh and apparently they don't publish change logs for television updates. WTF? I don't think a single built in app supported 4k streaming on my 2016 panel. Everything was better after I bought a set top box. The television supported 4k but couldn't stream it. Never again Samsung. Never again.

[ChrisLoudon]

1 minute ago, johnt said:

Normally I am a huge fan of Philips products. But after owning an LG OLED tv... I cannot see myself going to any other brand. I ran from Samsung after the hot mess of "we will support HDR10+ on your panel" articles and then they NEVER delivered. Oh and apparently they don't publish change logs for television updates. WTF? I don't think a single built in app supported 4k streaming on my 2016 panel. Everything was better after I bought a set top box. The television supported 4k but couldn't stream it. Never again Samsung. Never again.

Agreed.

 

My 436M6VBPAB is a great large 4k display but my god the HDR is awful, at least in comparison to the various LG OLED I use around the house.

 

HDR on the Philips just looks grey and washed out. The LGs on the other hand look lovely and bright. While I don't, I could use the regular windows desktop in HDR mode without any real issues.

[johnt]

1 minute ago, ChrisLoudon said:

Agreed.

 

My 436M6VBPAB is a great large 4k display but my god the HDR is awful, at least in comparison to the various LG OLED I use around the house.

 

HDR on the Philips just looks grey and washed out. The LGs on the other hand look lovely and bright. While I don't, I could use the regular windows desktop in HDR mode without any real issues.

I have no clue what is up with HDR mode in Windows. I can only turn it on right before I play a game. Using the desktop with HDR enabled is the worst thing I've ever had to do in my life lol what is MS doing!

[ChrisLoudon]

1 minute ago, johnt said:

I have no clue what is up with HDR mode in Windows. I can only turn it on right before I play a game. Using the desktop with HDR enabled is the worst thing I've ever had to do in my life lol what is MS doing!

Is your LG a PC Monitor or at TV?

 

I have 3 PCs in my house hooked up to LG TVs (65" C6V - 65" CX - 42" C2) and HDR works flawlessly. Windows desktop looks like a Windows desktop (albeit a bit brighter).

 

Click HDR mode using the Philips screen and everything goes dark, grey and washed out.

[3llyas]

26 minutes ago, johnt said:

HDR400 is a VESA standard for the expected peak brightness of a screen. It basically helps consumers figure out how "good" a panel is by a simple measurement of peak brightness in HDR mode. There is HDR400, HDR600, and HDR1000.

So I would be just fine with HDR10? As my room is quite a dark and dim room and not gonna need that much brightness. I think I can get away with just HDR10 right? Thanks btw!!

[johnt]

8 minutes ago, 3llyas said:

So I would be just fine with HDR10? As my room is quite a dark and dim room and not gonna need that much brightness. I think I can get away with just HDR10 right? Thanks btw!!

I mean HDR10 doesn’t talk about brightness. I think you be fine with nearly any modern monitor in a dark environment. HDR10 just means it supports HDR signal.  

[johnt]

23 minutes ago, ChrisLoudon said:

Is your LG a PC Monitor or at TV?

 

I have 3 PCs in my house hooked up to LG TVs (65" C6V - 65" CX - 42" C2) and HDR works flawlessly. Windows desktop looks like a Windows desktop (albeit a bit brighter).

 

Click HDR mode using the Philips screen and everything goes dark, grey and washed out.

I will have to give it another shot. The desktop always grays out for me in HDR mode but maybe I’m not remembering right. I just got the C3 like a month ago and tested it briefly. The washed out look is what I normally remember from all times I’ve tried it. 

[3llyas]

1 hour ago, johnt said:

I mean HDR10 doesn’t talk about brightness. I think you be fine with nearly any modern monitor in a dark environment. HDR10 just means it supports HDR signal.  

Aight thanks a lot man, cheers!

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, ChrisLoudon said:

Is your LG a PC Monitor or at TV?

 

I have 3 PCs in my house hooked up to LG TVs (65" C6V - 65" CX - 42" C2) and HDR works flawlessly. Windows desktop looks like a Windows desktop (albeit a bit brighter).

 

Click HDR mode using the Philips screen and everything goes dark, grey and washed out.

Windows 10 or 11? It's pretty well documented that hdr in win10 is broken.

[Doobeedoo]

You're not going to get HDR monitor for cheap. Need that HDR1000 rating at least so it's HDR1000+ rated LCD monitors that are obscenely expensive, imo a waste or OLED monitor.

[xg32]

On 4/24/2024 at 11:13 PM, 3llyas said:

.

the certifications means almost nothing in terms of actual hdr viewing experience, the cheapest monitor that has decent hdr is the aoc q27g3xmn

 

https://www.amazon.com/AOC-Q27G3XMN-Adaptive-Sync-DisplayHDR-Zero-Bright-dot/dp/B0C8ZJKPWC/ref=sr_1_3?crid=IIXN6RVJ1V8T&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.EQ1xftwKmBxo18z0HwdFMdimCbJnXBS0DIzkaUZdk2w7F8Ym1Rx0Njw1Pj4Lia1dkvZ4hZkL_vJSPBq-Bc-g7-T2vyGh6GTzq8NdnGsqeSqKYGvotkqM6ZcBuI_PZuaYpxrVfVje8xhvviSsgR_LEnwgJiuWbKDVN_R8Qm5m_cvpYzXXkUpj6soYpQAfsE9MMiDuFA0-n-AUZXf__FPuX3FSG_K3tNCF32pf38toSeQ.vmCIMbOz58Rdu4DkimXQI1baE2RMOX4DrBkkL8JQXE8&dib_tag=se&keywords=aoc+mini+led+monitor&qid=1714149887&sprefix=aoc+mini+led+monitor%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-3

 

next one up is the ktc M27P20

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BG3XZFY7/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=A1HMEUY6L6RX3B&th=1

[Stahlmann]

Vesa DisplayHDR 400 is a certification tier by Vesa that basically just means the monitor supports HDR and at least 400 nits of peak brightness. Plus it has a bigger color gamut than sRGB. Sadly none of these factors are quite enough to ensure a good HDR experience.

 

HDR10 is a video format, which means it is an HDR signal at 10 bpc color depth.

 

If a monitor only mentions HDR10 in its specs, it most likely means that it doesn't even meet the very basic requirements of Vesa DisplayHDR 400. Otherwise, they would probably market the monitor under the Vesa certification. So by that logic, the HDR400 monitor is probably slightly better at displaying HDR content.

 

However, most monitors with Vesa DisplayHDR 400, 600 and even some 1000 level monitors do not have the proper hardware to properly display HDR content. And unfortunately, the Vesa certification tiers are very easy to cheat through without good HDR hardware. Only the top tier Vesa DisplayHDR 1400 has requirements that are stringent enough that only true HDR monitors can pass.

 

Vesa DisplayHDR True Black certification levels that include OLED displays only usually deliver the best HDR performance, despite the spec being only 400 or 500 nits in brightness, most montiors with these certifications can reach around 1000 nits or more. On top of that, OLED's perfect blacks and pixel-level light control allow them to deliver the best HDR experience.

 

So with HDR10 vs. Vesa DisplayHDR 400 you're basically comparing two turds. One may be worse than the other, but they're still both turds.

[ewitte]

What you get with HDR is a hot mess and nothing is perfect.  You can have two displays with 1000nits peak brightness but one gets 700 on a 10% window and another only gets 400.  Nothing is really perfect.  

 

OLED - Best for dark scenes.  TVs are better with APL in higher window sizes.  WOLED gets brighter but loses color saturation.

FALD LED - Better for bright scenes with high APL.  Possible color fringing.

EDGE lit LED - garbage

 

Pick your poison.  

[starsmine]

HDR400 is really just a standard that display manufactures wanted without displaying HDR. 
What it boils down to is that it can accept an HDR signal, not that it can display it. Others have made this joke before, but it really should be called HDRisn't. It is impossible to get a good HDR picture from a TV only rated for HDR400. NOTE, this does NOT apply to HDR true black 400, which gives you amazing HDR picture.

HDR10 is a HDR signal/storage standard. All HDR TVs can accept this signal standard. This is essentially what HDR400 displays want to get brownie points for being able to accept. They should get no brownie points. They cant display it, they only have 8 bit color depth. HDR10 is 10 bit color depth. 

There exists many great HDR400 displays... for SDR content.