7950X3D is broken AF

[Plermpel]

Since I upgraded my PC to Zen4, it drives me crazy. The Setup is a 7950X3D on an Asus X670E-F Gaming with 2x16GB of Corsair Ram. (CL30-36-36-76 Hynix Dies)

I just can't get that thing to run stable, it never boots on the first try, PBO doesn't work as it should, sometimes if I just enter the BIOS without changing anything and save the settings, I get unfixable random BSODs.

What is that S.....

Don't get me wrong I am not stupid, if I get the system to run stable I am in the top places of most 3DMark Benchmarks for my configuration. And it is stable for multiple hours of Stress testing. I just wanted to know if there are other people experiencing the same problems like me, and maybe if somebody managed to fix it with different Ram for example? Because it looks to me, like my board is just to stupid to take a bunch of working memory settings.

[Dedayog]

2 minutes ago, Plermpel said:

Since I upgraded my PC to Zen4, it drives me crazy. The Setup is a 7950X3D on an Asus X670E-F Gaming with 2x16GB of Corsair Ram. (CL30-36-36-76 Hynix Dies)

I just can't get that thing to run stable, it never boots on the first try, PBO doesn't work as it should, sometimes if I just enter the BIOS without changing anything and save the settings, I get unfixable random BSODs.

What is that S.....

Don't get me wrong I am not stupid, if I get the system to run stable I am in the top places of most 3DMark Benchmarks for my configuration. And it is stable for multiple hours of Stress testing. I just wanted to know if there are other people experiencing the same problems like me, and maybe if somebody managed to fix it with different Ram for example? Because it looks to me, like my board is just to stupid to take a bunch of working memory settings.

2x16GB of Corsair Ram. 

 

I would wager that is your issue.  Corsair isn't known to play nice with AM5.  

[Alex Atkin UK]

6 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

2x16GB of Corsair Ram. 

 

I would wager that is your issue.  Corsair isn't known to play nice with AM5.  

Strongly disagree, so long as it EXPO RAM.  My 7800X3D has been rock-solid on 2x Corsair Vengeance 32 GB DDR5-6000 CL30-36-36-76 and Gamers Nexus also use Corsair for their benchmark rig.

 

9 minutes ago, Plermpel said:

Since I upgraded my PC to Zen4, it drives me crazy. The Setup is a 7950X3D on an Asus X670E-F Gaming with 2x16GB of Corsair Ram. (CL30-36-36-76 Hynix Dies)

I just can't get that thing to run stable, it never boots on the first try, PBO doesn't work as it should, sometimes if I just enter the BIOS without changing anything and save the settings, I get unfixable random BSODs.

Did you use EXPO I or EXPO II for the RAM setting?  ASUS in their infinite wisdom made EXPO II the "RAM default" and EXPO I is "we meddled with it so it probably wont work".

[Hinjima]

7 minutes ago, Plermpel said:

Since I upgraded my PC to Zen4, it drives me crazy. The Setup is a 7950X3D on an Asus X670E-F Gaming with 2x16GB of Corsair Ram. (CL30-36-36-76 Hynix Dies)

I just can't get that thing to run stable, it never boots on the first time PBO doesn't work as it should sometimes if I just enter the BIOS without changing anything and save the settings I get unfixable random BSODs.

What is that S.....

Don't get me wrong I am not stupid, if I get the system to run stable I am in the top places of most 3DMark Benchmarks for my configuration. I just wanted to know if there are other people experiencing the same problems like me, and maybe if somebody managed to fix it with different Ram for example? Because it looks to me, like my board is just to stupid to take a bunch of working memory settings.

Is the BIOS updated to the latest version?

[RONOTHAN##]

6 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Corsair isn't known to play nice with AM5. 

Have you seen any evidence of this? I've used a couple Corsair kits on AM5 with no issue, and haven't seen anyone on forums where it was actually confirmed to be the problem. It might've been an issue on AM4 depending on the BIOS revision, but it just doesn't seem to matter on AM5. Only thing I've seen somewhat close to that issue is either a) Corsair using a Micron IC that AMD is known to not like unless you're on one of the most recent BIOS revisions (this isn't an issue with Corsair though, they just are the most common user of it) or b) XMP and an early BIOS revision that had issues with most other XMP kits. 

 

 

OP, what BIOS revision are you running, and have you tried leaving the XMP/EXPO disabled and just manually inputting the memory settings?

 

2 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Strongly disagree, so long as it EXPO RAM.

Even their XMP kits work just fine on AMD in my experience. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

11 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Even their XMP kits work just fine on AMD in my experience. 

Yeah it mostly should,  its not like the RAM chips are likely any different.  Its just EXPO reduces the chance of mistakenly getting RAM with timings that don't play nice then needing to find the right settings manually.

 

I deliberately picked RAM with identical timings to what Gamers Nexus were using for benchmarking, so I would at least have a reference to refer to if my performance was as expected or not.  This was double so given I chose RAM not on the QVL, as it was too new (being a 64GB kit).

 

I did think I made a mistake at first, as I didn't realise ASUS were dumb as EXPO I was "ASUS Enhanced" and EXPO II was "stick to the RAM timings".  It was right there in the UEFI staring me in the face but I instinctively thought EXPO I would be "use the proper timings", as logic would suggest.  My kit wont even POST on EXPO I but is rock-solid on EXPO II.

 

I haven't updated the BIOS since I built the PC as quite frankly its running so smoothly, its the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  I didn't even reinstall after switching from a 5950X, just uninstalled all no longer detected devices from device manager.

 

My retailer of choice also exclusively uses Corsair RAM on all their builds, which would rather imply they do NOT have common issues with AM4 or AM5.

[Hinjima]

6 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Have you seen any evidence of this? I've used a couple Corsair kits on AM5 with no issue, and haven't seen anyone on forums where it was actually confirmed to be the problem. It might've been an issue on AM4 depending on the BIOS revision, but it just doesn't seem to matter on AM5. Only thing I've seen somewhat close to that issue is either a) Corsair using a Micron IC that AMD is known to not like unless you're on one of the most recent BIOS revisions (this isn't an issue with Corsair though, they just are the most common user of it) or b) XMP and an early BIOS revision that had issues with most other XMP kits. 

 

 

OP, what BIOS revision are you running, and have you tried leaving the XMP/EXPO disabled and just manually inputting the memory settings?

 

Even their XMP kits work just fine on AMD in my experience. 

Can confirm. Have used a few Corsair RAM with AM5 without issues, this has always been on the latest BIOS versions for all the motherboards used.

[Plermpel]

I've tried various different Timings, all three EXPO variations, Manual Timings, it doesn't seem to matter, sometimes it works sometimes it won't. Sometimes the PC doesn't even run stable on JEDEC frequency and timings.

 

Do your systems all post on the first attempt? Because mine never does.

 

Of course all drivers and BIOS is always up to date. Did clean windows install (twice), I am struggling with this for a few months now.

[RONOTHAN##]

5 minutes ago, Plermpel said:

Do your systems all post on the first attempt?

Yes.

 

5 minutes ago, Plermpel said:

BIOS is always up to date.

OK, this can sometimes be a problem. Newer BIOS updates don't always mean an improvement, it's not unheard of for BIOS updates to break something. Try going for something older to see if it helps. 

 

 

If that doesn't help though, it does sound like you got a bad motherboard, and I'd contact ASUS's RMA department and hope they can fix it. 

[Agall]

48 minutes ago, Plermpel said:

I've tried various different Timings, all three EXPO variations, Manual Timings, it doesn't seem to matter, sometimes it works sometimes it won't. Sometimes the PC doesn't even run stable on JEDEC frequency and timings.

 

Do your systems all post on the first attempt? Because mine never does.

 

Of course all drivers and BIOS is always up to date. Did clean windows install (twice), I am struggling with this for a few months now.

What's the BSOD type when it happens?

[Rysters Tech]

Asus X670E and memory issues..... replace your board with a different brand,as it may have fried your cpu due to a bug applying dangerously high SOC voltages, causing a slow meltdown of the die, see this video for details. Your CPU may be dead too, so you might have to replace it.

 

[Hinjima]

5 minutes ago, Rysters Tech said:

Asus X670E and memory issues..... replace your board with a different brand,as it may have fried your cpu due to a bug applying dangerously high SOC voltages, causing a slow meltdown of the die, see this video for details. Your CPU may be dead too, so you might have to replace it.

 

He mentioned he is on the latest BIOS and this has been fixed on all ASUS motherboards in the later BIOS revisions.

That being said, if he ran the system for a long time without a BIOS update then some shenanigans could have happened but I do doubt that.

 

It is a valid point so @Plermpel Have a look at your CPU to see if anything look abnormal underneath.

[Dedayog]

2 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Have you seen any evidence of this? I've used a couple Corsair kits on AM5 with no issue, and haven't seen anyone on forums where it was actually confirmed to be the problem. It might've been an issue on AM4 depending on the BIOS revision, but it just doesn't seem to matter on AM5. Only thing I've seen somewhat close to that issue is either a) Corsair using a Micron IC that AMD is known to not like unless you're on one of the most recent BIOS revisions (this isn't an issue with Corsair though, they just are the most common user of it) or b) XMP and an early BIOS revision that had issues with most other XMP kits. 

 

 

OP, what BIOS revision are you running, and have you tried leaving the XMP/EXPO disabled and just manually inputting the memory settings?

 

Even their XMP kits work just fine on AMD in my experience. 

There have been more people on here forums having issues with Corsair , am4 and am5 as well as reviewers mentioning it.

 

 

[RONOTHAN##]

3 hours ago, Dedayog said:

There have been more people on here forums having issues with Corsair , am4 and am5 as well as reviewers mentioning it.

 

 

Can you link to those reviewers mentioning it or confirmed cases of swapping the RAM to non-Corsair and issues going away? I have heard exactly nothing from the bigger reviewers mentioning it, and no cases of that actually confirmed. 

[Plermpel]

5 hours ago, Agall said:

What's the BSOD type when it happens?

Always different.

Kernel Security Check, Memory Management, Attempted Write to read-only Memory and a few more.

It looks to me like the board always changes some timings on post even if all are set manually.

It is also interesting that my Corsair RAM is in the QVL of the board but with a very specific version of it,  which I can't really find out, which one I have.

 

 

4 hours ago, Rysters Tech said:

Asus X670E and memory issues..... replace your board with a different brand,as it may have fried your cpu due to a bug applying dangerously high SOC voltages, causing a slow meltdown of the die, see this video for details. Your CPU may be dead too, so you might have to replace it.

 

I bought the board quite late, when that issue should have been fixed allready, the system never run on a BIOS older than 1807.

Also that would be weird, because if the system happens to run, it performs outstanding, which shouldn't be possible if the CPU is already broken. I've also tried to run the system on debian without any issues.

 

My first attempt would be to buy some G.Skill 7800Mhz CL36, just to make sure, it's not the ram.

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Can you link to those reviewers mentioning it or confirmed cases of swapping the RAM to non-Corsair and issues going away? I have heard exactly nothing from the bigger reviewers mentioning it, and no cases of that actually confirmed. 

As I understand it there are only two RAM manufacturers anyway and Corsair makes RAM from both - identifiable from different timings I believe.  It makes no sense that any brand would be particularly bad as they're largely identical, unless they are using reject chips.

 

In any case, OP has the same timings mine has, so is likely the same manufacturer.

 

46 minutes ago, Plermpel said:

My first attempt would be to buy some G.Skill 7800Mhz CL36, just to make sure, it's not the ram.

You don't want anything faster than 6000 on AM5 as it performs worse, the ones you bought are highly recommended timings which is why its what I bought.

 

The fact you're having issues with even JEDEC is concerning.  Mine always posted with defaults, it was only EXPO I that caused an issue.

 

Its highly unlikely its a compatibility issue IMO, I'd suspect something (CPU, RAM, motherboard even?) is faulty.  Maybe worth double checking CPU cooler mounting pressure, if its too tight it can cause memory problems.

[xg32]

7 hours ago, Plermpel said:

.

it's different case by case but i'd guess the ram settings are the sole issue here, some corsair models just don't work as well.

 

i'd recommend 2 sticks of gskill instead since you are having problems.

[RONOTHAN##]

12 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

As I understand it there are only two RAM manufacturers anyway and Corsair makes RAM from both.  It makes no sense that any brand would be particularly bad as they're largely identical, unless they are using reject chips.

There are actually three RAM IC manufacturers I'm aware of, Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron, with SK Hynix and Micron having 3 different dies they currently make, so you can get one of seven different ICs on any given kit. Depending on the XMP, that can limit it down somewhat, and 2x16GB 6000 CL30 would be one of two Hynix dies (16Gb M die or 16Gb A die, more likely A die).

 

The only thing I can think of that might cause Corsair to be worse with compatibility than one of the others is that the PCB is going to be different than others. Some RAM companies (Adata and TeamGroup, for instance) will just get an OEM PCB and use that, but others will design PCBs in house for their memory sticks (Corsair and G.Skill are the most notable of these). Since the PCB is a factor in determining memory compatibility, that can theoretically have Corsair have issues (this is likely the issue with Corsair memory on DDR4, their custom PCB not having the best compatibility). In practice though, I've never heard of people having those issues on DDR5, so their custom PCB is likely not different enough from the reference PCB to matter. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

2 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

There are actually three RAM IC manufacturers I'm aware of, Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron, with SK Hynix and Micron having 3 different dies they currently make, so you can get one of seven different ICs on any given kit. Depending on the XMP, that can limit it down somewhat, and 2x16GB 6000 CL30 would be one of two Hynix dies (16Gb M die or 16Gb A die, more likely A die).

 

The only thing I can think of that might cause Corsair to be worse with compatibility than one of the others is that the PCB is going to be different than others. Some RAM companies (Adata and TeamGroup, for instance) will just get an OEM PCB and use that, but others will design PCBs in house for their memory sticks (Corsair and G.Skill are the most notable of these). Since the PCB is a factor in determining memory compatibility, that can theoretically have Corsair have issues (this is likely the issue with Corsair memory on DDR4, their custom PCB not having the best compatibility). In practice though, I've never heard of people having those issues on DDR5, so their custom PCB is likely not different enough from the reference PCB to matter. 

Ah yes, how did I forget Samsung, people go on about it so much.

 

I do wonder if RGB memory would also be more prone to problems.  It always seemed a bad idea to me to put something like that so close to components that could be sensitive to interference, never mind running off the same voltage pins.

 

While some of my RAM is RGB (due to buying it in a pre-tested kit of motherboard, CPU and RAM), I tend to have it turned off.

[RONOTHAN##]

2 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I do wonder if RGB memory would also be more prone to problems.  It always seemed a bad idea to me to put something like that so close to components that could be sensitive to interference, never mind running off the same voltage pins.

I kinda doubt it, the RGB circuitry on most PCBs is fairly well separated from the data lines. Plus on DDR5 especially, I'm pretty sure the power circuitry runs off the input voltage before the PMIC, so it shouldn't cause any sort of voltage differences to the memory chips themselves. In my experience with multiple different RGB and non-RGB kits, the RGB kits perform about identically to the non-RGB kits for max frequency (if it actually had problems, I'd expect it to clock slightly worse). 

 

4 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Ah yes, how did I forget Samsung, people go on about it so much.

Mostly because Samsung DDR5 has been largely irrelevant. It's OK at best (it's better than anything Micron has put out, but no where near as good as anything Hynix makes), but the Hynix memory that does both better timings and higher frequency costs basically the same amount, so there's no reason to actually get a non-Hynix kit nowadays. Plus there were some reports early on in DDR5 lifespans that Samsung DDR5 had much worse XMP compatibility than the Hynix kits, so that's another con towards it. 

[Plermpel]

So I just ordered myself a Lexar kit (LD5BU016G-R6000GDLA) which seems to be Hynix M die on a reference PCB. It is not (yet) in the QVL list of my board, but I'll give it a try. It even has slightly better timings than my Corsair sticks at even 0,05 Volts less, according to it's EXPO profile.

[Dedayog]

9 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Can you link to those reviewers mentioning it or confirmed cases of swapping the RAM to non-Corsair and issues going away? I have heard exactly nothing from the bigger reviewers mentioning it, and no cases of that actually confirmed. 

Didn't you just list reasons why Corsair would have issues?  Even indirectly, that would account for what we see here and in reviews.  

 

"Have you seen any evidence of this? I've used a couple Corsair kits on AM5 with no issue, and haven't seen anyone on forums where it was actually confirmed to be the problem. It might've been an issue on AM4 depending on the BIOS revision, but it just doesn't seem to matter on AM5. Only thing I've seen somewhat close to that issue is either a) Corsair using a Micron IC that AMD is known to not like unless you're on one of the most recent BIOS revisions (this isn't an issue with Corsair though, they just are the most common user of it) or b) XMP and an early BIOS revision that had issues with most other XMP kits. "

 

Maybe a blanket "Corsair RAM" isn't good with AM5" is a bit much, I'll walk that back.  But it's enough of an issue that I won't use Corsair RAM or recommend it.  

 

[Agall]

9 hours ago, Plermpel said:

Always different.

Kernel Security Check, Memory Management, Attempted Write to read-only Memory and a few more.

It looks to me like the board always changes some timings on post even if all are set manually.

It is also interesting that my Corsair RAM is in the QVL of the board but with a very specific version of it,  which I can't really find out, which one I have.

 

 

I bought the board quite late, when that issue should have been fixed allready, the system never run on a BIOS older than 1807.

Also that would be weird, because if the system happens to run, it performs outstanding, which shouldn't be possible if the CPU is already broken. I've also tried to run the system on debian without any issues.

 

My first attempt would be to buy some G.Skill 7800Mhz CL36, just to make sure, it's not the ram.

To me, 6000 30-36-36-76 stands out since I only find XMP 3.0 type kits with those timings. The EXPO kits are like the one I have, 36-36-36-76. I imagine there's some people who've gotten those to work fine, but if all your BSODs point towards memory issues, then its likely to do with some disagreement between your CPUs memory controllers and that kit, potentially including your motherboard's application of the subtimings.

[Plermpel]

I think so too, but it's definitely EXPO RAM.

The super odd thing is that it just happens if I change ANYTHING in the BIOS, for example, I was just tinkering again and if I load BIOS defaults, the system will at least run almost everytime, now I did just change the fan curves, saved the settings and it started to fail again!

It looks like ASUS is only applying standart timings with the optimized defaults, as soon as you save the BIOS settings a second time it will start to mess around with some stuff that is set to auto.

[RONOTHAN##]

4 hours ago, Dedayog said:

Didn't you just list reasons why Corsair would have issues?

Yeah, and none of the issues I listed would be a specific Corsair issue. The Micron 24Gb B die (what has had a sketchy history with Ryzen) that can show up on these kits on any kit from any manufacturer if it's in the right speed bin (5600 CL40, for instance), Corsair just uses it the most, and if you bought an actually good speed bin like 6000 CL30 you won't get it. XMP was an issue early on and with all XMP kits (I specifically remember a couple Kingston kits from back during the AM5 launch), and since they're on a BIOS revision after AGESA 1.0.0.7b it's not an issue at all. The PCB issue is also not something that is guaranteed to have issues, since G.Skill (the one that most people agrees basically always works) also uses an in-house designed PCB.