Fastest way to spread the word of folding to non tech users.

[kasdashd]

What suggestions do you all have on how to "spread the word" of folding to non tech people, or just people who don't know about it yet in general?

 

Would like a quick and efficient way to do this, so do any of you now any relevant large forums, besides LTT, groups, or other places where this info could reach a large amount of people in a short time?

 

I think there is such a gigantic potential for folding still, cause most "regular" people still don't even know that it's possible.

[voyager_]

Unfortunately that's probably a pipe dream, most "regular" people don't have a spare computer or desktop they would be willing to leave on constantly. Im betting the vast majority of people that have a computer own a laptop and they won't want to leave it on and running constantly. Odds are when they are done using its closed and set somewhere. I know my laptops often end up on their side upright on the middle cushion against the couch or on the coffee table. I also wouldn't want one of my laptops running constantly.

 

As far as trying to get more people involved that don't know would be through advertising and I have a suspicion they don't have the budget to do so. Im sure most tech channels would talk about it for free but other channels trying to reach non tech people probably wouldn't. Next best hope would be to get companies involved, I know at my office a couple departments have powerful desktops that go idle at night and weekends but I doubt the higher ups would approve them running the software.

[Dedayog]

33 minutes ago, kasdashd said:

What suggestions do you all have on how to "spread the word" of folding to non tech people, or just people who don't know about it yet in general?

 

Would like a quick and efficient way to do this, so do any of you now any relevant large forums, besides LTT, groups, or other places where this info could reach a large amount of people in a short time?

 

I think there is such a gigantic potential for folding still, cause most "regular" people still don't even know that it's possible.

Are you trying to get the word out or push people into it?

 

Advertise.  Get into Google Adspace.  Have pop ups when I go into my email, or anywhere.  Facebook, Insta, etc etc etc.

 

Are you now some major proponent of Folding?  What's driving this?

[AlwaysFSX]

44 minutes ago, kasdashd said:

I think there is such a gigantic potential for folding still, cause most "regular" people still don't even know that it's possible.

They don't care. It's a niche for people that have the cash to burn on electricity. The average person does not or will not.

[Average Nerd]

55 minutes ago, kasdashd said:

I think there is such a gigantic potential for folding still, cause most "regular" people still don't even know that it's possible.

I think a lot of people don't care, or can't afford/don't want to afford the electricity that essentially just gets turned into heat for no immediate benefit to them.

[kasdashd]

38 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Are you trying to get the word out or push people into it?

 

Advertise.  Get into Google Adspace.  Have pop ups when I go into my email, or anywhere.  Facebook, Insta, etc etc etc.

 

Are you now some major proponent of Folding?  What's driving this?

No, I don't wanna "push" anything. I just wanna spread the word of folding, cause I think it's an ingenius version of charity, where you don't have to work for free or donate money to contribute, and I think especially young people, who wanna do something "good", but can't seem to get any influence politically or whatever, would love to know that they are helping out science for "free", only costs a little extra in power, especially if they're only using the mobile folding app "Dreamlab", which only runs when the phone is connected to power. I have no connection to any "money" or company, this is a personal hobby and interest of wanting to get more people to fold, willingly, again, not trying to "push" anything . If you really wanna know, I play the organ for a living, and have simply always had an interest/hobby in computers and IT.

[kasdashd]

29 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

They don't care. It's a niche for people that have the cash to burn on electricity. The average person does not or will not.

I think many young people would love to do "good"/charity work essentially, without having to spend time or money doing it.

[kasdashd]

41 minutes ago, voyager_ said:

Unfortunately that's probably a pipe dream, most "regular" people don't have a spare computer or desktop they would be willing to leave on constantly. Im betting the vast majority of people that have a computer own a laptop and they won't want to leave it on and running constantly. Odds are when they are done using its closed and set somewhere. I know my laptops often end up on their side upright on the middle cushion against the couch or on the coffee table. I also wouldn't want one of my laptops running constantly.

 

As far as trying to get more people involved that don't know would be through advertising and I have a suspicion they don't have the budget to do so. Im sure most tech channels would talk about it for free but other channels trying to reach non tech people probably wouldn't. Next best hope would be to get companies involved, I know at my office a couple departments have powerful desktops that go idle at night and weekends but I doubt the higher ups would approve them running the software.

That's why the folding app "Dreamlab" exists, to solve the computer issue you're mentioning here.

[Eigenvektor]

16 minutes ago, kasdashd said:

without having to spend time or money doing it.

Your electricity doesn't cost you anything?

 

20 minutes ago, kasdashd said:

here you don't have to work for free

I have to work to be able to afford my power bill. And if part of that power bill is spent on things with no immediate benefit, I am effectively working "for free"

[Dedayog]

31 minutes ago, kasdashd said:

No, I don't wanna "push" anything. I just wanna spread the word of folding, cause I think it's an ingenius version of charity, where you don't have to work for free or donate money to contribute, and I think especially young people, who wanna do something "good", but can't seem to get any influence politically or whatever, would love to know that they are helping out science for "free", only costs a little extra in power, especially if they're only using the mobile folding app "Dreamlab", which only runs when the phone is connected to power. I have no connection to any "money" or company, this is a personal hobby and interest of wanting to get more people to fold, willingly, again, not trying to "push" anything . If you really wanna know, I play the organ for a living, and have simply always had an interest/hobby in computers and IT.

Not saying you have an agenda, though your post history definitely shows a push for tech stuff and trying to spread information.

 

Folding isn't free at all.  It uses resources like electricity, but also generates heat so a home has A/C increases, for example.  Plus, many people just don't know HOW to do all this and any little bit  that is frustrating can cause a lockdown.   People have a very low tolerance for things that don't directly benefit themselves, especially young people who can't even imagine disease or mortality issues.  We were all invincible once

 

Don't forget that many people will think they're damaging their machines over time or introducing wear/tear on it.  Forum is chock full of even techy people asking this stuff.

 

I'd just say get the word out thru advertising, let people dig into it on their terms.   Basic marketing to reach the most people for hte least amount of money.  Even with the thousands here,  you only get a decent handful seeing a post.  So ads are the way to go IMO.

[Zando_]

As others said, power is a cost. If you use a laptop or phone and don't leave it plugged in all day, then the additional battery cycles are another cost eventually, as you'll have to get that battery replaced or suffer with shite battery life. Temps and noise are also a concern for both, running loud and hot can be a major inconvenience. 

 

There's also no great need (AFAIK) for a massive influx of folders. F@H already struggles with distributing work units during some folding events, they'll often have access to so much hardware that they don't actually have anything for it to do. 

1 hour ago, AlwaysFSX said:

t's a niche for people that have the cash to burn on electricity. 

^ basically this. It's a fun thing (due to the points system/leaderboard) for computer gearheads to do. Like charity events for car or motorcycle gearheads, etc. An excuse to flex the stuff they work on in their hobby for a good cause. Not a practical thing for everyone to engage in.

 

Though it can be practical in the winter if you have cheap power and a very power hungry computer, you can run F@H as a decent space heater under those conditions. As dedayog noted it's the opposite when it's warm out, you fight your own AC then. 

[voyager_]

22 minutes ago, kasdashd said:

That's why the folding app "Dreamlab" exists, to solve the computer issue you're mentioning here.

You're still going to run into similar issues, it's just added wear and tear on a phone. Many people wirelessly charge their phones and that already makes the phones warm, last thing I want to do is have it also process a task all night making it run hotter.

 

I'm willing to bet people would be even more against using their phone then using their computer when at this point people use their phone for everything and won't trust an app running on their phone doing stuff that they don't understand. 

 

It all comes down to the same basic issues: No advertising to spread awareness/support, wear and tear on devices, power usage, and trust. You can run all the ads you want about it and the benefits and im sure some people will jump on board with their phones or computers but at the end of the day if I see an ad for something that says to download this and let us use your device to process data people won't trust it. It sounds sketchy and while that may not be the case for every 1 good charity there are 1000+ scams out there. 

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, kasdashd said:

I think many young people would love to do "good"/charity work essentially, without having to spend time or money doing it.

[kasdashd]

4 hours ago, Average Nerd said:

I think a lot of people don't care, or can't afford/don't want to afford the electricity that essentially just gets turned into heat for no immediate benefit to them.

Then they can save on heating, and it’s something you prioritize, paying more for power for your PC to fold, a selfless choice.

[kasdashd]

4 hours ago, Eigenvektor said:

Your electricity doesn't cost you anything?

 

I have to work to be able to afford my power bill. And if part of that power bill is spent on things with no immediate benefit, I am effectively working "for free"

Yes, power costs, and if you can’t afford that increase, don’t fold, but many people can, I’m not trying to get every single person to fold, but just those who want to, and can afford to. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s fair. And working for free is a selfless choice, not something you yourself have to benefit from.

[kasdashd]

4 hours ago, Dedayog said:

Not saying you have an agenda, though your post history definitely shows a push for tech stuff and trying to spread information.

 

Folding isn't free at all.  It uses resources like electricity, but also generates heat so a home has A/C increases, for example.  Plus, many people just don't know HOW to do all this and any little bit  that is frustrating can cause a lockdown.   People have a very low tolerance for things that don't directly benefit themselves, especially young people who can't even imagine disease or mortality issues.  We were all invincible once

 

Don't forget that many people will think they're damaging their machines over time or introducing wear/tear on it.  Forum is chock full of even techy people asking this stuff.

 

I'd just say get the word out thru advertising, let people dig into it on their terms.   Basic marketing to reach the most people for hte least amount of money.  Even with the thousands here,  you only get a decent handful seeing a post.  So ads are the way to go IMO.

Low tolerance, lockdown, fear of damaging hardware. These are all human fears and faults, which can be fi ed with objective information and teaching. And if a forum isn’t used to spread information, and do “good” with that information, then what’s it worth? Helping individuals and discussion opinions till the cows come home, results in no change in the world.

[kasdashd]

4 hours ago, Zando_ said:

As others said, power is a cost. If you use a laptop or phone and don't leave it plugged in all day, then the additional battery cycles are another cost eventually, as you'll have to get that battery replaced or suffer with shite battery life. Temps and noise are also a concern for both, running loud and hot can be a major inconvenience. 

 

There's also no great need (AFAIK) for a massive influx of folders. F@H already struggles with distributing work units during some folding events, they'll often have access to so much hardware that they don't actually have anything for it to do. 

^ basically this. It's a fun thing (due to the points system/leaderboard) for computer gearheads to do. Like charity events for car or motorcycle gearheads, etc. An excuse to flex the stuff they work on in their hobby for a good cause. Not a practical thing for everyone to engage in.

 

Though it can be practical in the winter if you have cheap power and a very power hungry computer, you can run F@H as a decent space heater under those conditions. As dedayog noted it's the opposite when it's warm out, you fight your own AC then. 

Some of us still live at home, where we don’t pay our parents extra for a higher power bill, or don’t pay them at all, if we’re under 18. And sorry, if you can’t afford that extra power, then your budget is too tight, and you gotta fix your economy.

[kasdashd]

4 hours ago, voyager_ said:

You're still going to run into similar issues, it's just added wear and tear on a phone. Many people wirelessly charge their phones and that already makes the phones warm, last thing I want to do is have it also process a task all night making it run hotter.

 

I'm willing to bet people would be even more against using their phone then using their computer when at this point people use their phone for everything and won't trust an app running on their phone doing stuff that they don't understand. 

 

It all comes down to the same basic issues: No advertising to spread awareness/support, wear and tear on devices, power usage, and trust. You can run all the ads you want about it and the benefits and im sure some people will jump on board with their phones or computers but at the end of the day if I see an ad for something that says to download this and let us use your device to process data people won't trust it. It sounds sketchy and while that may not be the case for every 1 good charity there are 1000+ scams out there. 

But the mobile dreamlab app stops folding when the phone get too hot, so it doesn’t wear and tear too much. Of course the designers have thought about this, and the phone is being heavily underutilized for this app anyway.

[kasdashd]

3 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Humans are lazy, can’t change that, but embrace it.

[Zando_]

1 hour ago, kasdashd said:

Then they can save on heating,

Not really. As I said, it can work as a neat space heater. Not gonna beat a proper HVAC system for anything but a single room though. My power bill doubled when I ran a few GPUs 24/7 for a folding event. In winter, so assisting the HVAC not fighting it.

1 hour ago, kasdashd said:

paying more for power for your PC to fold, a selfless choice.

Not everyone can do so, nor do they want to.

1 hour ago, kasdashd said:

And sorry, if you can’t afford that extra power, then your budget is too tight, and you gotta fix your economy.

<- that's the only appropriate reaction I have for this statement lmao.

1 hour ago, kasdashd said:

Some of us still live at home, where we don’t pay our parents extra for a higher power bill, or don’t pay them at all, if we’re under 18.

You assume everyone's parents can just magically afford a higher bill. Mom and Dad don't poof money out of a hat infinitely for their kids projects. I've had the privilege of financially stable parents who can both shrug off an increased power bill and have helped me financially in a bunch of other ways, most people do not get that. It is very important to understand that that is a less and less common privilege these days, so you don't come across as an entitled twat.

 

I don't get the fixation on F@H. As I said earlier it seems to be going fine, and they regularly have more hardware than they can actually use enrolled. I'm not sure what point there would be in the masses running F@H on very slow and inefficient devices (really anything but a decent to great GPU is practically useless for F@H, I only run CPU folding when I want the heat output). If you want to effect the world in a positive way, look into how batteries are produced from raw materials to final product (both environmental and human cost), then come back and advocate for burning through the limited useful life of mobile and laptop batteries to accomplish barely anything as F@H doesn't scale well on those devices. If they could even be served work units.

 

On the speed of F@H, back during the covid push in 2020, the network was 2x faster than the fastest supercomputer on the planet: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/folding-at-home-worlds-top-supercomputers-coronavirus-covid-19. This article also does a good job of mentioning that you can contribute with your hardware if you want, but not being too pushy over it.

 

On mobile, unless they've changed it, DreamLab seems especially bad on modern phones: https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=32951. Relevant bit here:

Quote

DreamLab darkens the screen but doesn't allow it to switch off so that it can keep on working - you end up with a black screen with a tiny silhouetted DreamLab logo in the center (and I don't run it on my iPhone for this reason - the logo never moves, so even though it's extremely dim, it will contribute to OLED screen burn-in eventually).

Lots of even cheaper phones now are often OLED, seems a bad idea to try and kill screens faster for dubious benefit.

 

TLDR: Folding @ Home seems a weird thing to want to get regular (non-techie) folks into. It's doing very well (again AFAIK, I haven't seen some massive "we're losing hardware help" message from the F@H team, and we have some hardcore Folders here on the forum so it would have been mentioned if so) in its niche, and doesn't really fit anywhere else due to a multitude of overlapping concerns that may or may not be an issue depending on the individual non-techie person.

[AlwaysFSX]

2 hours ago, kasdashd said:

Humans are lazy, can’t change that, but embrace it.

2 hours ago, kasdashd said:

Some of us still live at home, where we don’t pay our parents extra for a higher power bill, or don’t pay them at all, if we’re under 18. And sorry, if you can’t afford that extra power, then your budget is too tight, and you gotta fix your economy.

Ah, got my answer. Gotcha.

[Eigenvektor]

4 hours ago, kasdashd said:

Yes, power costs, and if you can’t afford that increase, don’t fold, but many people can, I’m not trying to get every single person to fold, but just those who want to, and can afford to. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s fair. And working for free is a selfless choice, not something you yourself have to benefit from.

<-- as you can see by that badge, I did contribute to folding.

 

During that time the down payment for my power bill doubled. And that was back when I still paid 32 cent per kWh. Since then the cost for electricity has gone up to 43.5 cent per kWh (+35%), as has the cost of everything else.

 

If you have parents who can just shrug that off, cool. If you just shrug that off because it's not your money, uncool.

[kasdashd]

6 hours ago, Zando_ said:

Not really. As I said, it can work as a neat space heater. Not gonna beat a proper HVAC system for anything but a single room though. My power bill doubled when I ran a few GPUs 24/7 for a folding event. In winter, so assisting the HVAC not fighting it.

Not everyone can do so, nor do they want to.

<- that's the only appropriate reaction I have for this statement lmao.

You assume everyone's parents can just magically afford a higher bill. Mom and Dad don't poof money out of a hat infinitely for their kids projects. I've had the privilege of financially stable parents who can both shrug off an increased power bill and have helped me financially in a bunch of other ways, most people do not get that. It is very important to understand that that is a less and less common privilege these days, so you don't come across as an entitled twat.

 

I don't get the fixation on F@H. As I said earlier it seems to be going fine, and they regularly have more hardware than they can actually use enrolled. I'm not sure what point there would be in the masses running F@H on very slow and inefficient devices (really anything but a decent to great GPU is practically useless for F@H, I only run CPU folding when I want the heat output). If you want to effect the world in a positive way, look into how batteries are produced from raw materials to final product (both environmental and human cost), then come back and advocate for burning through the limited useful life of mobile and laptop batteries to accomplish barely anything as F@H doesn't scale well on those devices. If they could even be served work units.

 

On the speed of F@H, back during the covid push in 2020, the network was 2x faster than the fastest supercomputer on the planet: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/folding-at-home-worlds-top-supercomputers-coronavirus-covid-19. This article also does a good job of mentioning that you can contribute with your hardware if you want, but not being too pushy over it.

 

On mobile, unless they've changed it, DreamLab seems especially bad on modern phones: https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=32951. Relevant bit here:

Lots of even cheaper phones now are often OLED, seems a bad idea to try and kill screens faster for dubious benefit.

 

TLDR: Folding @ Home seems a weird thing to want to get regular (non-techie) folks into. It's doing very well (again AFAIK, I haven't seen some massive "we're losing hardware help" message from the F@H team, and we have some hardcore Folders here on the forum so it would have been mentioned if so) in its niche, and doesn't really fit anywhere else due to a multitude of overlapping concerns that may or may not be an issue depending on the individual non-techie person.

I don’t wanna waste time discussing folding in general. If you don’t have any other suggestions on how to spread the word of folding, then we’re done here.

[kasdashd]

3 hours ago, Eigenvektor said:

<-- as you can see by that badge, I did contribute to folding.

 

During that time the down payment for my power bill doubled. And that was back when I still paid 32 cent per kWh. Since then the cost for electricity has gone up to 43.5 cent per kWh (+35%), as has the cost of everything else.

 

If you have parents who can just shrug that off, cool. If you just shrug that off because it's not your money, uncool.

Yes, uncool, but that’s my decision. Thanks for all the suggestions. I now consider this matter closed.

[Dedayog]

2 hours ago, kasdashd said:

I don’t wanna waste time discussing folding in general. If you don’t have any other suggestions on how to spread the word of folding, then we’re done here.

I think we are trying to talk about FoH and why spreading the word and getting people to do it may run into challenges.  It's not as simple as just spreading the word.

 

I get it, being young and finding a cause to back is a big deal.  It feels like it's such a no-brainer, right?  Wouldn't everyone donate PC time to help cure diseases!!!!  Duh!!!

 

But it's more nuanced than that, and people who are older and more experienced are trying to explain that to you.  But then again, with your age and passion comes other factors that make it difficult to get thru 

 

Hope you realize people aren't trying to undercut your idea, but they ARE fleshing out the other sides of the coin in making it happen.