RTX 4070 just as fast as GTX 1080

[GopherTv]

Just upgraded to a 4070 from a 1080, and in R6, the game I primairly play, im getting the same fps. What is the problem?!?! 

Specs:

700 watt psu

i7 8700k

64 gb 2666 mhz ram (kinda slow ik)

Samsung 990 pro ssd 4tb

 

Running at 1080p, fps was about 240-280 on both cards, running gpuz and it showed full utalization for 1080 and only 40% for 4070

Benchmark-2024.01.21-23.14.06.html Benchmark-2024.01.11-10.44.18.html

[Godlygamer23]

What frame rate are you getting? What power supply do you have?

[At0micMuff1n]

What kind of troubleshooting have you done? What resolution are you playing at? Have you run any performance monitors while in-game?

You'll need to see whether the 4070 isn't being fed enough info or whether your GPU is not running at the correct power/mhz. If you're on 1080p, given the 8700k, it might a bottleneck issue where you're already pushing ridiculous frames (1080 ain't no slouch, had one myself). Don't know unless you give more info.

 

[starsmine]

when trying to draw conclusions here, look at your tests and share those.
The exact settings and the actual results of both. 

[Mark Kaine]

i bet its a cpu bottleneck simply.  your cpu is pretty old and not the fastest anymore.

[johnt]

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

i bet its a cpu bottleneck simply.  your cpu is pretty old and not the fastest anymore.

That's a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Was the 8700k too old when the 2080 came out? There were clearly improvements in frame rates between those generations of GPUs on an 8700k. The 4070 tramples on the 1080, so an increase in FPS is expected, even if it's small.

 

I wish the Op posted some more information about this issue. I wonder if it's v-sync or a frame limiter (in game or NVCP)?

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, johnt said:

That's a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Was the 8700k too old when the 2080 came out? There were clearly improvements in frame rates between those generations of GPUs on an 8700k. The 4070 tramples on the 1080, so an increase in FPS is expected, even if it's small.

 

I wish the Op posted some more information about this issue. I wonder if it's v-sync or a frame limiter (in game or NVCP)?

its not really... this comes up a lot, also what they describe is exactly what happens when cpu bound.  it *is* old and outdated,  i don't see how stating the truth is ridiculous,  or why I'd have to add "it once was a good cpu"... it isnt anymore. 

 

agreed, more info can never hurt tho. 

[starsmine]

6 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

i bet its a cpu bottleneck simply.  your cpu is pretty old and not the fastest anymore.

while I'm sure that's part of not getting the most performance out of the 4070. There are very few if any games that would be 100% cpu bottlenecked by a 1080 with that processor. Because that's the only situation where you would gain nothing from upgrading the GPU.  

[MadAnt250]

15 hours ago, GopherTv said:

i7 8700k

Do a complete graphics driver reinstall.

And yes, the 8700K may be the bottleneck sometimes with an RTX 4070. I sure hope you are not playing at 1080p, 1440p should be the target resolution right now with that GPU.

 

Also, the i7 8700K can be overclocked to get some extra performance from the increased clock speed.

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, starsmine said:

while I'm sure that's part of not getting the most performance out of the 4070. There are very few if any games that would be 100% cpu bottlenecked by a 1080 with that processor. Because that's the only situation where you would gain nothing from upgrading the GPU.  

very few is relative though,  and they have a 4070 so it makes sense... but yes, not every game will bottleneck obviously. 

 

tldr: it was fine with a 1080, but isn't with a 4070 (unsurprisingly) 

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, MadAnt250 said:

Do a complete graphics driver reinstall.

And yes, the 8700K may be the bottleneck sometimes with an RTX 4070. I sure hope you are not playing at 1080p, 1440p should be the target resolution right now with that GPU.

 

Also, the i7 8700K can be overclocked to get some extra performance from the increased clock speed.

trying can't hurt, but i remember several similar cases - where op never believed it was the cpu - it always was the cpu in the end...

 

[starsmine]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

very few is relative though,  and they have a 4070 so it makes sense... but yes, not every game will bottleneck obviously. 

 

tldr: it was fine with a 1080, but isn't with a 4070 (unsurprisingly) 

 

 

I don’t actually think there are any games 100% bottlenecked by an 8700k with a gtx 1080 though. It does not matter if the 4070 bottlenecks to a degree or not. I only say a few to leave the door open to one existing. Otherwise there would be games that the 1080ti only matched the 1080 with.
 

OP needs to retest and state what they are testing to draw real conclusions here. (sorry about screenshot quality)

[WiscoMetro]

Maybe the ram? Or Vsync making the frame rates the same?

 

My Phenom II 1100T system with DDR3 ran everything worse with a rtx 3060 than a Quadro K4200(gtx 670 equivalent). Stuttering happened even on low settings, even if neither the CPU or GPU was under strain, left the only option to be ram.

 

Indeed the 3060 runs fine in my new build with ddr4 2133.

 

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

it *is* old and outdated,  i don't see how stating the truth is ridiculous,  or why I'd have to add "it once was a good cpu"... it isnt anymore.

Umm, I played Metro Exodus just fine on my aforementioned 1100T/K4200 rig... Despite being far below the minimum spec, it pushed it to the limit no doubt(80+% cpu/ram usage, redlined gpu) but it was still very playable on medium settings WUXGA. No harm in getting the maximum life out of stuff . Only windows 7 compatible game it can't do is Cyberpunk and that was a for a lack of SSE 4.1/4.2 instruction sets.

[GopherTv]

21 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

What frame rate are you getting? What power supply do you have?

 about 240-280 fps on both.

psu is thermaltake smart 700w

[GopherTv]

21 hours ago, At0micMuff1n said:

What kind of troubleshooting have you done? What resolution are you playing at? Have you run any performance monitors while in-game?

You'll need to see whether the 4070 isn't being fed enough info or whether your GPU is not running at the correct power/mhz. If you're on 1080p, given the 8700k, it might a bottleneck issue where you're already pushing ridiculous frames (1080 ain't no slouch, had one myself). Don't know unless you give more info.

 

Running at 1080p, fps was about 240-280 on both cards, running gpuz and it showed full utalization for 1080 and only 40% for 4070

[GopherTv]

19 hours ago, starsmine said:

when trying to draw conclusions here, look at your tests and share those.
The exact settings and the actual results of both. 

Benchmark-2024.01.21-23.14.06.htmlBenchmark-2024.01.11-10.44.18.html

[GopherTv]

11 hours ago, johnt said:

That's a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Was the 8700k too old when the 2080 came out? There were clearly improvements in frame rates between those generations of GPUs on an 8700k. The 4070 tramples on the 1080, so an increase in FPS is expected, even if it's small.

 

I wish the Op posted some more information about this issue. I wonder if it's v-sync or a frame limiter (in game or NVCP)?

added more info, hope it can help, no frame limiter or v-sync

[GopherTv]

4 hours ago, starsmine said:

I don’t actually think there are any games 100% bottlenecked by an 8700k with a gtx 1080 though. It does not matter if the 4070 bottlenecks to a degree or not. I only say a few to leave the door open to one existing. Otherwise there would be games that the 1080ti only matched the 1080 with.
 

OP needs to retest and state what they are testing to draw real conclusions here. (sorry about screenshot quality)

I attached benchmarks, hope they can help. Also screenshots you sent are very insightful

[GopherTv]

2 hours ago, WiscoMetro said:

Maybe the ram? Or Vsync making the frame rates the same?

 

My Phenom II 1100T system with DDR3 ran everything worse with a rtx 3060 than a Quadro K4200(gtx 670 equivalent). Stuttering happened even on low settings, even if neither the CPU or GPU was under strain, left the only option to be ram.

 

Indeed the 3060 runs fine in my new build with ddr4 2133.

 

Umm, I played Metro Exodus just fine on my aforementioned 1100T/K4200 rig... Despite being far below the minimum spec, it pushed it to the limit no doubt(80+% cpu/ram usage, redlined gpu) but it was still very playable on medium settings WUXGA. No harm in getting the maximum life out of stuff . Only windows 7 compatible game it can't do is Cyberpunk and that was a for a lack of SSE 4.1/4.2 instruction sets.

Ram is 2666mhz ddr 4 and ive got 64 gigs of it  

[starsmine]

Your settings are messing with you. 
but this actually is a CPU bottleneck, to my annoyance. 

your 4070 run


your 1080 run


This is actually expected to a degree, ADA/Ampere have heavier drivers for the CPU. 

you DID gain Gpu performance
4070


1080


Lets zoom back out, I actually love your benchmark because it shows exactly the thing I drew a bullshit graph with to demonstrate a thing about how bottlenecks work. I also hate it because people are going to use this to get the wrong conclusions out of it
This was the 1080 run


You were literally 50% CPU bottlenecked here. 50% of the frames were CPU binded, 50% were GPU binded. And the std deviations look to be pretty similar. 

The ONLY reason you didnt gain performance was the heaver drivers, and it literally created a wash. with your chosen game settings. If not for that fact and that fact alone you would have seen a significant increase in average FPS as you get closer to being 100% cpu bound. 

These are dumb settings.

Shadows are the most expensive thing here as z-maps almost make you draw a scene twice, but you put it on medium, when everything else barely effects anything in comparison. (like you should max out texture filtering there will be no hit in performance, texture quality is a VRAM thing so again no hit in performance so long as the Vram buffer can sustain it)

LOD/shading/reflections/AO do hit gpu core performance, so sure setting those to low is valid to maximize fps/minimize GPU usage. 

[GopherTv]

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

Your settings are messing with you. 
but this actually is a CPU bottleneck, to my annoyance. 

your 4070 run


your 1080 run


This is actually expected to a degree, ADA/Ampere have heavier drivers for the CPU. 

you DID gain Gpu performance
4070


1080


Lets zoom back out, I actually love your benchmark because it shows exactly the thing I drew a bullshit graph with to demonstrate a thing about how bottlenecks work. I also hate it because people are going to use this to get the wrong conclusions out of it
This was the 1080 run


You were literally 50% CPU bottlenecked here. 50% of the frames were CPU binded, 50% were GPU binded. And the std deviations look to be pretty similar. 

The ONLY reason you didnt gain performance was the heaver drivers, and it literally created a wash. with your chosen game settings. If not for that fact and that fact alone you would have seen a significant increase in average FPS as you get closer to being 100% cpu bound. 

These are dumb settings.

Shadows are the most expensive thing here as z-maps almost make you draw a scene twice, but you put it on medium, when everything else barely effects anything in comparison. (like you should max out texture filtering there will be no hit in performance, texture quality is a VRAM thing so again no hit in performance so long as the Vram buffer can sustain it)

LOD/shading/reflections/AO do hit gpu core performance, so sure setting those to low is valid to maximize fps/minimize GPU usage. 

How come a person with my same exact cpu, and a significantly weaker 3060ti gets more fps at 1080p with ultra settings instead of low like I run? 10:17 he shows settings, 11:20 is results

 

[starsmine]

Try overclocking your ram/cpu

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, starsmine said:

Try overclocking your ram/cpu

yeap, since op apparently doesn't want to buy a better cpu, that's the only chance to improve things a bit, if only to show them, yes, indeed, the old and slow cpu is indeed the problem. 

[Stahlmann]

So you upgraded your GPU because 250 fps wasn't enough? At this framerate it's probably a CPU bottleneck.

[Godlygamer23]

7 hours ago, GopherTv said:

How come a person with my same exact cpu, and a significantly weaker 3060ti gets more fps at 1080p with ultra settings instead of low like I run? 10:17 he shows settings, 11:20 is results

 

Is your CPU running at stock frequencies? I totally missed the utilization metrics in your OP. It's most likely a CPU bottleneck.