Fairphone Discussion

[Anubis1101]

I've been using the Fairphone 4 with Murena's /e/OS for a few months now (got one not long after they finally brought them over to NA), and with Linus taking the dive after his experience with the Wing, I thought it would be a good time to start a thread on them to share my experience. If anyone else here also has a Fairphone or had one in the past, please share your experiences as well. I'd love to hear them!

 

For my part, I'm pretty happy with it overall. Objectively, I'd say 8.5/10 out of the box.

 

Spoiler

Software-wise, /e/OS is barebones Android, without fancy, luxurious features like being able to place icons where you want them on the home screen (they're sorted to the top, and widgets are relegated to their own separate panel accessed by swiping all the way left), but the built-in privacy features like geolocation spoofing and included Always-On-able VPN are really nice. The App Lounge™ provides easy access to almost any app you'd need, but I've had some occasional issues with connectivity, updates (I'd get the notification for them, but when I visit the Updates tab, nothing would show), and apps sometimes not showing up in search (I thought they didn't have YouTube for a time because I couldn't find it by searching or browsing for it). The Lounge provides excellent transparency for apps, listing the permissions it uses, as well as the trackers it includes, and a calculated 'privacy score' based on those things. It does appear to lack a way to directly rate or review an app, which makes sense if it's just pulling directly from the Google app store.
(A side note about the above image: If you use a VPN other than the included one, it seems to always shows your IP address as Exposed. Despite that, it integrated well with both the Mozilla VPN and Proton VPN, allowing them to run in Always-On mode with a 'kill switch' feature even if the base app doesn't offer as much)

 

The default apps all seem to be along that same trend- privacy-focused, but otherwise basic. I think they expect you to download your own preferred versions of things like mail, but with, say, the Camera app, I do wish they'd gone a bit farther. Integration with Google services is almost flawless- sometimes, I had issues synching contacts and such, since my Murena account used the same email address as my main Google account, so it kept saying the account was already selected. Overall, though, I'm content with it. I would like to find an alternative Home app that lets me organize the icons the way I want, so anyone who has a lead on something good, please let me know.

 

Spoiler

Hardware-wise, It's a solid phone, literally. First week I owned it, I dropped it from about 4.5 feet directly onto a concrete stair, and it left a nice little indentation (shown). It's a fairly hefty phone, but the damage appears entirely cosmetic, and I've since dropped it a few more times without any noticeable issues. I applied the ~$33 Privacy Filter™ screen, and it seemed to actually save it at least once, when the screen protector cracked like safety glass (in which case it was easy to pull it off and replace it). I have opened it up, but I haven't taken it apart or anything yet, so I can't comment on serviceability.

 

Spoiler

As far as the camera goes, well, It's decent. I'm not one to fuss over camera quality, so take my opinion with some skepticism, but it seems to do a decent job inside and outside. I haven't done any thorough testing of the different lenses and such, but I also haven't had problems taking pictures of things I want to. As I alluded to earlier, the software side is very bare-bones, and doesn't seem to include some of the fancier features that mainstream phones do like stabilization, but it does provide some processing features (shown), and practical GUI options for information about things like the approximate shooting angle and which lens is currently active.

 

Battery life is good. With an average of two hours of YouTube streaming a day, it'll last almost 3 days before dying. Without any YouTube usage, mostly texting and ~1 total hour of active screen usage per day, should last about 4-5 days. I don't play games or use any other more hardware-intensive apps on my phone, so I can't comment further on battery and hardware performance.

Bottom line is, I think it's a good phone and a fantastic step towards modern repairability, privacy, and transparency in the cell phone market, and I hope Linus has a good experience with it.

 

[adm0n]

11 minutes ago, Anubis1101 said:

I've been using the Fairphone 4 for a few months now (got one not long after they finally brought them over to NA)

I'd like to add here, that Linus won't have a comparable experience to you. Since you got your Fairphone from Murena (which is a seperate company from Fairphone), you get it with their deGoogled software.

 

Linus has likely obtained a stock fairphone 5 which just comes with (almost) stock android and the normal google services.

 

Issues he will likely mention are:

• subpar battery life (even though the phone is chonky)
  • Especially when using always on display (AoD), the phone apparently never goes into deep sleep :c
• average main camera quality
• awful ultrawide quality
• maybe some minor bugs and crashes if the fairphone forum is any indication

but apart from that, everything he is used to should just work out of the box

 

(source: I own a fairphone 5)

[Anubis1101]

Just now, adm0n said:

I'd like to add here, that Linus won't have a comparable experience to you. Since you got your Fairphone from Murena (which is a seperate company from Fairphone), you get it with their deGoogled software.

 

Linus has likely obtained a stock fairphone 5 which just comes with (almost) stock android and the normal google services.

 

Issues he will likely mention are:

• subpar battery life (even though the phone is chonky)
  • Especially when using always on display (AoD), the phone apparently never goes into deep sleep :c
• average main camera quality
• awful ultrawide quality
• maybe some minor bugs and crashes if the fairphone forum is any indication

but apart from that, everything he is used to should just work out of the box

 

(source: I own a fairphone 5)

Ah yea, I forgot Murena was its own thing. I'll have to add that to my post.

[adm0n]

Just now, Anubis1101 said:

Ah yea, I forgot Murena was its own thing. I'll have to add that to my post.

 

13 minutes ago, Anubis1101 said:

Bottom line is, I think it's a good phone and a fantastic step towards modern repairability, privacy, and transparency in the cell phone market, and I hope Linus has a good experience with it.

Also don't forget that you run a Fairphone 4 compared to the Fairphone 5 that Linus is using. There were a lot of small upgrades this generation (like an OLED screen, improved camera, holepunch selfi camera instead of the teardrop, even better repairability, longer software support due using an IoT SoC, ...)

[Anubis1101]

Just now, adm0n said:

 

Also don't forget that you run a Fairphone 4 compared to the Fairphone 5 that Linus is using. There were a lot of small upgrades this generation (like an OLED screen, improved camera, holepunch selfi camera instead of the teardrop, even better repairability, longer software support due using an IoT SoC, ...)

Oh I'm aware of that, that's why I didn't try to specifically say "hey Linus, this is what you can expect". 

Still, I wanted to get the discussion going around these phones.

[whispous]

I'd love a fairphone, but I have to be straight up:

They need to make a budget model for it to TRULY take off.

A Refurbished previous model is £429 - if there's going to be a revolution, we need a product that people can actually generally afford in bulk.

It needs both repairability and affordability, and it's only halfway there.

I know designing, manufacturing and supporting a smartphone is a very expensive task, but without the ability for the masses to adopt it, it's a dead end.

[Anubis1101]

1 minute ago, whispous said:

I'd love a fairphone, but I have to be straight up:

They need to make a budget model for it to TRULY take off.

A Refurbished previous model is £429 - if there's going to be a revolution, we need a product that people can actually generally afford in bulk.

It needs both repairability and affordability, and it's only halfway there.

I know designing, manufacturing and supporting a smartphone is a very expensive task, but without the ability for the masses to adopt it, it's a dead end.

I understand that. Until now, I exclusively bought cheap off-brand phones from Amazon, because I'm prone to dropping them or breaking them at work. I've never spent more than $200 on any phone (always without contract) until the Fairphone.

But on that note, a new screen for the FP4 is about $80USD, and that's usually what I break. If I do the math, I come out as saving money in the long run, making it a worthwhile investment for me.

[adm0n]

12 minutes ago, whispous said:

They need to make a budget model for it to TRULY take off.

A Refurbished previous model is £429 - if there's going to be a revolution, we need a product that people can actually generally afford in bulk.

It needs both repairability and affordability, and it's only halfway there.

I know designing, manufacturing and supporting a smartphone is a very expensive task, but without the ability for the masses to adopt it, it's a dead end.

The phone is already a pretty bad value if you compare it with similarly equipped phone. A good comparison would be the Pixel 7a. At its lowest price, the Fairphone 5 was ~75% more expensive. And you don't really get a better phone for that money.

 

What you do get for that money is

• fairly paid employees that manufacture the phone (I think they get a small bonus directly from fairphone for every phone build)
• Fairly sourced materials (as much as possible)
• modular repairability
• extended software support (they promise 8 years of security updates and hope to get up to 10 years)

The first two points add direct cost to the phone, as they basically mean your labor and resource costs are now higher. The third point indirectly adds costs to the phone, because it adds complexity, development time and materials.

 

Add to that, that a phone that gives you just less of everything, doesn't really have that much mass appeal, and you also lose a bit of the benefit of the economy of scale.

 

And my whole point here is, that it would likely be extremely challenging for Fairphone to create an attractive budget phone. With the FP5 you already have a midclass phone with the price of a flagship (in exact euros, it costs 699€ and at the cheapest the pixel 7a was 399€). Would you buy a $200 phone for $400? If your screen breaks after 2-3 years, would you pay $70 for a replacement screen, if that's almost half the price of a newer/better $200 phone?

 

And the last point, I want to make, is that every company could make their phones while paying the people who build them fairly and source their materials as fairly as possible, Fairphone has set an example and put a price point on it. It's just pretty high at around $200-$300.

[Polderviking]

I've been eyeing the fairphone for a good old while, the price premium is not a problem to me for a long term device, but the lack of QI charging, quadlock incompatibility and to a slightly lesser extend the camera performance hold me back.

 

I know a lot of people consider QI overrated but i'm quite fond of it, and also aware quadlock have a universal stickytape solution but the FP has a removable back and i'm afraid it'll yeet itself off my bike at speed when i hit a bump/pothole, the covers specifically made for phones with the builtin lock are far more confidence inspiring.

[Doobeedoo]

I like the overall idea, removable battery, longer OS support but I'd like to see someone making a flagship in such way. Google is extending OS support lately which is, finally, awesome to see. But yeah, still a locked down slab and I hate back glasa trend. 

[Polderviking]

1 minute ago, Doobeedoo said:

I like the overall idea, removable battery, longer OS support but I'd like to see someone making a flagship in such way. Google is extending OS support lately which is, finally, awesome to see. But yeah, still a locked down slab and I hate back glasa trend. 

Samsung has also extended software support to a respectable 5 years. But yeah untill they start applying some better practices on the hardware front as well that is mostly only nice on paper.
Battery degradation is real after 2 to 3 years for a daily driver but Samsung wants 90 for that what is maybe a 20 eurodollar part.

[Doobeedoo]

11 minutes ago, Polderviking said:

Samsung has also extended software support to a respectable 5 years. But yeah untill they start applying some better practices on the hardware front as well that is mostly only nice on paper.
Battery degradation is real after 2 to 3 years for a daily driver but Samsung wants 90 for that what is maybe a 20 eurodollar part.

Samsung is 4y and Google lately announced 7y OS support. 

We need higher capacity battery from the get go though. 6000-7000mAh would be awesome. My last phone I had it for many years, battery degraded by 1/3. I don't charge my new phone multiple times a day. Though one good reason to also have a larger cell.

[whispous]

3 hours ago, adm0n said:

The phone is already a pretty bad value if you compare it with similarly equipped phone. A good comparison would be the Pixel 7a. At its lowest price, the Fairphone 5 was ~75% more expensive. And you don't really get a better phone for that money.

 

What you do get for that money is

• fairly paid employees that manufacture the phone (I think they get a small bonus directly from fairphone for every phone build)
• Fairly sourced materials (as much as possible)
• modular repairability
• extended software support (they promise 8 years of security updates and hope to get up to 10 years)

The first two points add direct cost to the phone, as they basically mean your labor and resource costs are now higher. The third point indirectly adds costs to the phone, because it adds complexity, development time and materials.

 

Add to that, that a phone that gives you just less of everything, doesn't really have that much mass appeal, and you also lose a bit of the benefit of the economy of scale.

 

And my whole point here is, that it would likely be extremely challenging for Fairphone to create an attractive budget phone. With the FP5 you already have a midclass phone with the price of a flagship (in exact euros, it costs 699€ and at the cheapest the pixel 7a was 399€). Would you buy a $200 phone for $400? If your screen breaks after 2-3 years, would you pay $70 for a replacement screen, if that's almost half the price of a newer/better $200 phone?

 

And the last point, I want to make, is that every company could make their phones while paying the people who build them fairly and source their materials as fairly as possible, Fairphone has set an example and put a price point on it. It's just pretty high at around $200-$300.

I do consider things like better paid employees, repairability and eco-friendliness to be of value - i'd definitely accept lower performance at the same price to a non-repairable phone.

 

But it's still FAR TOO HIGH.

 

I want Fairphone to be trying to compete for the "rough and ready" market - reasonable price, not minding the lower-than-high-end performance.

They are pricing to compete with premium devices and it's not going to work.

 

 

Here's a specific:

Fairphone, sell me a model with replacable screen, body and battery, and find a way to sell it for £300, brand new.
It should promise 5 years of Android versions. It needs to be usable, i'm not asking for it to play Triple-A (lol) mobile games.

[Kilrah]

3 hours ago, whispous said:

I do consider things like better paid employees, repairability and eco-friendliness to be of value - i'd definitely accept lower performance at the same price to a non-repairable phone.

 

But it's still FAR TOO HIGH.

But that's what it costs now... 

It's already rather low-end and the price to make it work is what it is. Making it cheaper would mean starting with a garbage-tier phone nobody would want.

[whispous]

2 hours ago, Kilrah said:

But that's what it costs now... 

It's already rather low-end and the price to make it work is what it is. Making it cheaper would mean starting with a garbage-tier phone nobody would want.

I don't think "now", if intended to mean "in the future it will be cheaper" is valid. Theyve been doing this for a few years now and the price has only gone up on new models.

 

It's the cheaper end of the market that sees the most churn into e-waste, not the high end.

[adm0n]

5 hours ago, whispous said:

But it's still FAR TOO HIGH.

 

5 hours ago, whispous said:

Here's a specific:

Fairphone, sell me a model with replacable screen, body and battery, and find a way to sell it for £300, brand new.
It should promise 5 years of Android versions. It needs to be usable, i'm not asking for it to play Triple-A (lol) mobile games.

The thing is, that these extra costs, you incur, don't really scale with the total cost of the device. A cheap phone and an expensive phone are made out of kinda the same materials. And they also take a similar time to manufacture.

 

So if the added cost is about $200, you'd be looking at a $100 phone. There isn't much point in trying to make a $100 phone repairable and last a long time, because they won't be really worth repairing.

 

If you take the moral high road here, you could also say, that these $200 you save on buying a cheap phone, you actually steal from those in a less fortunate situation than you, and in damages to the earth.

[Kilrah]

51 minutes ago, whispous said:

It's the cheaper end of the market that sees the most churn into e-waste

The cheaper end can't be anything else than that just because it's so bad in the first place. No point in repairing / making last something that was already atrociously slow 3 years ago.

Repair makes sense on devices that are at least half decent in the first place and actually still have some potential life left when something gets broken, so that it makes sense repairing it, that's where tossing something that could still be used should be avoided.

 

54 minutes ago, whispous said:

and the price has only gone up on new models.

Prices have been going up for everything, and that's probably not going away.

[adm0n]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

The cheaper end can't be anything else than that just because it's so bad in the first place. No point in repairing / making last something that was already atrociously slow 3 years ago.

Repair makes sense on devices that are at least half decent in the first place and actually still have some potential life left when something gets broken, so that it makes sense repairing it, that's where tossing something that could still be used should be avoided.

It's sadly become more common place that it's cheaper to manufacture (cheap) devices that cost a significant amount of their new price to repair.

For smartphones that was almost always the case, but things like home appliances have that problem too. It is usually just better to buy a new one when an old one breaks.

 

It says something about the efficiency of the supply chain, that we can get a half decent phone at $100 or $200, but on the other hand it isn't sustainable.

 

4 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Prices have been going up for everything, and that's probably not going away.

sad empty bank account noises :c

[Anubis1101]

On 12/13/2023 at 5:27 AM, Polderviking said:

I've been eyeing the fairphone for a good old while, the price premium is not a problem to me for a long term device, but the lack of QI charging, quadlock incompatibility and to a slightly lesser extend the camera performance hold me back.

 

I know a lot of people consider QI overrated but i'm quite fond of it, and also aware quadlock have a universal stickytape solution but the FP has a removable back and i'm afraid it'll yeet itself off my bike at speed when i hit a bump/pothole, the covers specifically made for phones with the builtin lock are far more confidence inspiring.

oh you dont need to worry about the back coming off, that thing is on pretty good. ive dropped it a few times now in different ways, without so much as a slight dislodging.

its actually quite flexible and attached at multiple points- its not a hard plastic back thatll all come off at once, so youll be fine on that front.

On 12/13/2023 at 6:04 AM, Doobeedoo said:

Samsung is 4y and Google lately announced 7y OS support. 

We need higher capacity battery from the get go though. 6000-7000mAh would be awesome. My last phone I had it for many years, battery degraded by 1/3. I don't charge my new phone multiple times a day. Though one good reason to also have a larger cell.

yea big companies are doing it now because of startups like Fairphone and Framework threatening to take market share from them.

but make no mistake, the moment they can run such companies out of business, theyll go right back to being anti-R2R. they dont see the profit incentive in repairability, so until we get real, lasting legislation, dont be fooled by their short-term one-offs.

[Joe Dad]

Anyone able to tell me specifically whether or not fairphone will work in Canada? I've seen there are some 4g bands missing but do I have to set anything or change anything to use or will it just work on a Telus sim?

[Anubis1101]

15 hours ago, Joe Dad said:

Anyone able to tell me specifically whether or not fairphone will work in Canada? I've seen there are some 4g bands missing but do I have to set anything or change anything to use or will it just work on a Telus sim?

It's a normal phone, so it should work with any regular sim. If it doesn't, that's probably a restriction on the carrier's side, not the phone's.

But that said, I don't live in Canada so I can't be sure.

[E-waste]

On 12/13/2023 at 6:33 AM, adm0n said:

Also don't forget that you run a Fairphone 4 compared to the Fairphone 5 that Linus is using. There were a lot of small upgrades this generation (like an OLED screen,

An OLED screen that doesn't noticably flicker (I confidently assume, oled hasn't always used pwm light pulses for dimming).

 

This is great, and will allow those who can see 240 to 480 Hz flicker, a great implementation of the technology, which reduces eye fatigue.

[R3tr0W4v3]

Hi, just saw this Fairphone forum and wanted to know if price isn't an issue, how the overall experience is. I live in America and I'm not sure if it will work with AT&T networks. I've checked both AT&T and Fairphone forums but I still can't get anything conclusive.

 

Edit: Just wanted to add that I want to use ubuntu touch or e/os and which one is 'better'

 

Thanks, Blake

[Anubis1101]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:28 PM, R3tr0W4v3 said:

Hi, just saw this Fairphone forum and wanted to know if price isn't an issue, how the overall experience is. I live in America and I'm not sure if it will work with AT&T networks. I've checked both AT&T and Fairphone forums but I still can't get anything conclusive.

 

Edit: Just wanted to add that I want to use ubuntu touch or e/os and which one is 'better'

 

Thanks, Blake

I think so. They've stuck to their promises in Europe, so as long as something doesn't get messed up over here, I think it's worth it.

Especially for me, because I'm really bad about breaking screens, and dropping $80 for a new screen couple times a year is way cheaper and less of a hassle (and more fun) than just buying a new phone every time.

It's important to remember, though, that you're paying a premium price for non-premium hardware. You're paying for the repairability and sustainability. If you value hardware potential, or are really into gaming on your phone, I'd think very carefully before grabbing one.