LTT Backpack not being double layered on the bottom?

[FFLORO]

So, previously I've heard about the double layer feature of the backpack, i.e. if you keep sliding your backpack on the floor and you wear through the bottom of it, there's a whole another layer of outer fabric underneath and having a few of my old backpacks fail in that exact way I thought it was so cool.

 

Ordered my backpack last week and now I saw this on the WAN show...

 

 

Where Linus cuts through the bottom (48:01), doesn't find a second layer anywhere and says it needs to be investigated - does anyone have any update on this or actually managed to already wear through the outer layer and can show what it looks like? @LinusTech

[jaslion]

It's been 3 days so I'd say give em a moment more. Having worked in product development I've seen all sides where the manufacturer suddenly hides features away without anyone knowing till this happens, production faults, communication errors, actual removal of features to cut costs without communciation,...

 

Who knows but all I know is that this usually takes a couple weeks before an actual answer is found if they were not aware of this issue.

[soccermomisqueen]

Just to add onto what @jaslion has already said, it could be any number of things that went on.

 

POSSIBLE OPTIONS (dont take these as what actually happened):

• The manufacturer had a change to one part of the backpack and applied it to everywhere (could have been that there was at some point 2 lining layers testing, or 2 layers somewhere that made no since in the end). Mentioned previously
• Someone made an oopsy. I mean, hey, we are all human. Even the best people make mistakes here and there. Even if it seems like a QC issue, the fabric seems really thick already and could be hard to catch in the first place (not to mention if it is a person doing it, at the end of the day of just doing QC, sometimes QC can go out the window. I have personal experience on this at work, but thankfully we had 2 QC people that would check product in serial so it never ended up horrifically).
• The manufacturer said "They wont notice, and we can save a few bucks" (though that brings up Halnon's Razer, "Don't attribute to malice, what could be attributed to stupidity.")
• Work orders were not changed for one/all stations in the manufacturing process (The employee could have been working on an earlier version of the backpack work orders that had other things fixed, but forgot to change the double lining in the process). With hundreds of things in that manual, it can be difficult sometimes to catch everything.
• The manufacturer's supplier had missed what was asked and maybe separated the fabric individually, rather than in pairs (or maybe even in a different part of the factory).
• An infinite plethora of other possibilities that I could make a whole novel about

 

From what Linus has said and the philosophies of the company, I imagine that once they have an update on what is going on (including how long these parts have been failing standards, the severity of the incident, how much this costs, etc.) the team will give an update on what is going on (I doubt it will be swept under the rug since I could see people leaving the company by the company sweeping it under the rug for something rather major (AKA, it was found out on WAN show in front of 25 thousand people or so)).

Depending on the severity (AKA, the backpack on WAN show was the only one that failed QC after testing their backpacks that they probably kept from each of the production runs for just this purpose), the who (AKA, is this a fix that is on LMG, or is it on the manufacturer), and the how much (is this a worldwide recall, is this a small portion of backpacks, is this any other numbers of combinations), this could end up taking a few weeks, a few months, to an entire year for it being resolved (although, there will certainly be updates if it is longer than a few weeks, see the carabiner faults on ALL of their backpacks).

[GoStormPlays]

Deck the halls with boughs of controversy

 

fa la la la la la la la la

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I hope they get this resolved. Hopefully, there will be a segment about this on the next WAN Show.

[LMGcommunity]

We hope to have a thorough update about this out to you guys sometime this week.

[GoStormPlays]

6 hours ago, LMGcommunity said:

We hope to have a thorough update about this out to you guys sometime this week.

Will it be a forum post on here or a WAN Show segment or what?

[der_erdmann]

It might be interesting to note that the one image promoting that feature disappeared between then and now.

Before: https://web.archive.org/web/20231124052444/https://www.lttstore.com/products/backpack

Now: https://www.lttstore.com/products/backpack

I understand that and hope they can figure out what happend. Still dicey.

[Quarpet]

If it does turn out that they have a large batch of mis-manufactured bags with a single layer I hope they continue to sell them but at a discount, they are obviously still plenty durable with a single layer, a la the mining bag.

[FFLORO]

19 hours ago, Quarpet said:

If it does turn out that they have a large batch of mis-manufactured bags with a single layer I hope they continue to sell them but at a discount, they are obviously still plenty durable with a single layer, a la the mining bag.

The one they cut open on the show was the 1 year old mining one though, so either all of them since then are manufactured like that or if it was a batch with a problem they're all out with the customers, might be a bit of a headache to fix that

[helgehelge123]

So the Backpack I preordered based on their promises (backordered based on a few reviews? Call it as you like) does not stand on it's own and might not have a double layered bottom?
That's 2 features (possibly 1) gone out of only a few that are not obviously true.

Now I'm starting to think about the other statements that i cannot confirm.
Is it really recycled plastic bottles as a material?

Did they test the RFID blocking passport pouch or do I have to worry about my information when traveling with the backpack, that's designed for traveling? 
They also removed the carabiner zippers because they didn't test it. (And I have to worry about mine because the didn't wanna pay upfront for the replacement)

 

Discussion question: Should LMG offer some kind of compensation? They're pretty open about others standing up for their misstakes. This Backpack has a lot of whoopsies and it's more than a customer should accept without some kind of monetary "sorry."

[affa]

I think it say a lot about the quality of the backpack. It might or might not be up to par of what they designed, and it was abused in a coal mine, and still hell up quite well. So if it is not up to the quality Linus/Creator Warehouse wanted, i hope they still sell it (with a discount), and fix this issues with their manufacture. After this one with this issues, was abused in a coal mine, i'm sure it is just fine for me, for my work as busdriver, and part time student.

If manufactures thinks they can get away with stuff, they might try it. Also, it could be a misunderstanding, as Linus also said.

[GoStormPlays]

1 hour ago, helgehelge123 said:

Discussion question: Should LMG offer some kind of compensation? They're pretty open about others standing up for their misstakes. This Backpack has a lot of whoopsies and it's more than a customer should accept without some kind of monetary "sorry."

While it would be partially their fault, it's likely that the manufacturer is at fault and not LMG. Thus, the compensation would probably be through the manufacturer. Also, if there was compensation, it'd likely be replacing all the backpacks that don't have the double padding.

[Somtaw]

I snagged a backpack the Monday before this episode and definitely felt for Linus while watching WAN on Friday. It was a relatively big selling point for me, and I know how proud Linus has been to tout it as such. Hopefully the team can get to the bottom of this (sorry) and we hear some good news around it. 

[deathrow]

It should be LMG's fault for not ensuring that all of their claims are legitimate. They should at least verify all of their marketing claims.

[GoStormPlays]

Just now, deathrow said:

It should be LMG's fault for not ensuring that all of their claims are legitimate. They should at least verify all of their marketing claims.

The manufacturer might've put double padding when they were first made and stopped later.

[helgehelge123]

1 hour ago, GoStormPlays said:

While it would be partially their fault, it's likely that the manufacturer is at fault and not LMG. Thus, the compensation would probably be through the manufacturer. Also, if there was compensation, it'd likely be replacing all the backpacks that don't have the double padding.

I cannot imagine that the manufacturer did some with and some without double layer bottom. I expect them to have used a thicker material but that's kinda expected for the bottom layer. That's not equivalent to a double layer in my view. 

Furthermore, they're responsible for the product/badges they're selling. If they don't check it after all that trust me bro talk and stories about some dude checking chinese factories years ago it's partially on them too. 
As a result we trusted them and there are multiple problems that should have been cought.

[DeltaBruggemann]

5 hours ago, helgehelge123 said:

Now I'm starting to think about the other statements that i cannot confirm.
Is it really recycled plastic bottles as a material?

Did they test the RFID blocking passport pouch or do I have to worry about my information when traveling with the backpack, that's designed for traveling? 
They also removed the carabiner zippers because they didn't test it. (And I have to worry about mine because the didn't wanna pay upfront for the replacement)

So with the material I'd speculate it would be pretty hard to switch it out for one that isn't Repreve as there would most likely be a noticeable difference in feel or look which Creator Warehouse would most likely have noticed.

As for the RFID Blocking pocket, I've personally tested it with multiple types of cards and my Flipper Zero and confirm that I couldn't read cards Contained in the pocket.

And finally with the carabiner zips, they have been really transparent with the issue from the beginning and are almost ready to ship the replacement kit at their cost. Its not like they just left us high and dry on the issue or are going to charge customers for the mistake. Also The carabiner issue doesn't affect everyone, I have one of the first backpacks that shipped to Australia and have never felt like the carabiner were going to break from normal use. However I do know how fragile carabiners can be so I've known to be careful with them from the begining

 

[GoStormPlays]

3 hours ago, helgehelge123 said:

If they don't check it after all that trust me bro talk and stories about some dude checking chinese factories years ago it's partially on them too. 
As a result we trusted them and there are multiple problems that should have been cought.

What I was saying was that LMG might've looked when the Backpack was first released and not looked again, because it makes absolutely zero sense to just cut open every backpack.

 

That isn't to say that it's right that they didn't check again. LMG should probably be doing a yearly or even monthly QC check with all of their manufacturers. But, it wasn't an obvious problem and probably not something that would've come up earlier.

[GoStormPlays]

I got an ad for the backpack on the forum while looking at this thread.

[deathrow]

4 hours ago, DeltaBruggemann said:

So with the material I'd speculate it would be pretty hard to switch it out for one that isn't Repreve as there would most likely be a noticeable difference in feel or look which Creator Warehouse would most likely have noticed.

As for the RFID Blocking pocket, I've personally tested it with multiple types of cards and my Flipper Zero and confirm that I couldn't read cards Contained in the pocket.

And finally with the carabiner zips, they have been really transparent with the issue from the beginning and are almost ready to ship the replacement kit at their cost. Its not like they just left us high and dry on the issue or are going to charge customers for the mistake. Also The carabiner issue doesn't affect everyone, I have one of the first backpacks that shipped to Australia and have never felt like the carabiner were going to break from normal use. However I do know how fragile carabiners can be so I've known to be careful with them from the begining

 

Tested RFID as well. It works.

[Aluminumhaste]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:23 AM, der_erdmann said:

It might be interesting to note that the one image promoting that feature disappeared between then and now.

Before: https://web.archive.org/web/20231124052444/https://www.lttstore.com/products/backpack

Now: https://www.lttstore.com/products/backpack

I understand that and hope they can figure out what happend. Still dicey.

Yeah they can't leave that up once they've learned that it's not actually there. Glad they took it down right away.

[helgehelge123]

19 hours ago, DeltaBruggemann said:

So with the material I'd speculate it would be pretty hard to switch it out for one that isn't Repreve as there would most likely be a noticeable difference in feel or look which Creator Warehouse would most likely have noticed.

As for the RFID Blocking pocket, I've personally tested it with multiple types of cards and my Flipper Zero and confirm that I couldn't read cards Contained in the pocket.

And finally with the carabiner zips, they have been really transparent with the issue from the beginning and are almost ready to ship the replacement kit at their cost. Its not like they just left us high and dry on the issue or are going to charge customers for the mistake. Also The carabiner issue doesn't affect everyone, I have one of the first backpacks that shipped to Australia and have never felt like the carabiner were going to break from normal use. However I do know how fragile carabiners can be so I've known to be careful with them from the begining

 

Thank you for the detailed answer!

I'm glad to hear that the pocket does it's job

And I you're right, they are open about the issue and shipping it on their cost. 
My carabinders are fine, but i'm babysitting them like crazy. I don't put any force on them and they still feel flimsy.
And come on. it's over a year to find a replacement, and of cause it's on their cost. The alternative is a replacement backpack or online shitstorm, if they don't fix 40.000 backpacks.

[helgehelge123]

18 hours ago, GoStormPlays said:

What I was saying was that LMG might've looked when the Backpack was first released and not looked again, because it makes absolutely zero sense to just cut open every backpack.

 

That isn't to say that it's right that they didn't check again. LMG should probably be doing a yearly or even monthly QC check with all of their manufacturers. But, it wasn't an obvious problem and probably not something that would've come up earlier.

With their Trust me Bro guarantee, they should've tested at least one in every 10.000 batch. I trusted them and they failed in multiple spots.
It's not that I don't like the backpack. it's the best backpack I ever used, no doubt about that. But they praised it and their testing way too high to have 1 product fail in 2 or more places (guaranteed fail/false statement in carabiners and standing on it's own)

[GoStormPlays]

56 minutes ago, helgehelge123 said:

With their Trust me Bro guarantee, they should've tested at least one in every 10.000 batch. I trusted them and they failed in multiple spots.
It's not that I don't like the backpack. it's the best backpack I ever used, no doubt about that. But they praised it and their testing way too high to have 1 product fail in 2 or more places (guaranteed fail/false statement in carabiners and standing on it's own)

I'm assuming that period in "10.000" is meant to be a comma, but tell me if it isn't.

 

I'm not entirely sure they've sold that many backpacks in the last year. I mean, yeah they could've, but I doubt that many of them are being sold.

[FFLORO]

3 hours ago, GoStormPlays said:

I'm assuming that period in "10.000" is meant to be a comma, but tell me if it isn't.

 

I'm not entirely sure they've sold that many backpacks in the last year. I mean, yeah they could've, but I doubt that many of them are being sold.

Lol, first of all, I think everyone understands what they meant regardless if it was . or , not to mention that in many countries comma is actually the decimal separator, not the period, so chill.

Secondly, each wave at launch was 10k units, and there were 4 of them iirc? And that was over a year ago, so it's safe to assume it's definitely into 10s of thousands at the moment, probably approaching 100k.