It’s Back and I’m SO Excited! - Threadripper 7000

[James]

Buy an AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7980X CPU: https://geni.us/N0FAYie
Buy an AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7970X CPU: https://geni.us/3BRv8G
Buy an ASUS Pro WS TRX50-SAGE WiFi Motherboard: https://lmg.gg/mDwPa
Buy an Intel Core i9-14900K CPU: https://lmg.gg/72eoj
Buy an AMD Ryzen 9 7950X CPU: https://lmg.gg/pYZIp
Buy an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 FE Graphics Card: https://lmg.gg/J3Y1u
Check out G.Skill Zeta R5 Neo 6400MHz CL32 4x32GB DDR5 ECC RAM: https://lmg.gg/syujZ
Buy an NZXT Kraken 360mm AIO CPU Liquid Cooler: https://lmg.gg/cCP63
Buy an ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Dark Hero Motherboard: https://lmg.gg/0epaP
Buy a Samsung 980 PRO 2TB NVMe M.2 SSD: https://lmg.gg/qk1Ag
Buy a Seasonic PRIME TX-1600 80+ Titanium PSU: https://lmg.gg/7Q1af

 

Purchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.
 

AMD is finally releasing new Threadripper CPUs, and they are absolutely bonkers. Should you buy one? If you have to ask the price, then no, but it’s a wild ride and worth watching anyway.

 

 

 

[Uttamattamakin]

The lower end 24 core threadripper 7960X might be worth it for someone who needs/wants to virtualize a lot.  That said with an 8core CPU and DGPU using KVM and GPU passthrough I can play Cyberpunk with respectable frame rates.  At the same time I can be running a computation in Linux.  Having more headroom for that and more / better IO would be great.  A setup where every x16 slot is its own iommu group and can be passed to a VM.  Enabling giving certain VM's their own USB controller and the ability to plug hardware into the VM directly.  

Would also be great for a Qubes OS set up.   A linux like OS based entirely on running everything in one VM or the other depending on how trusted it is.    Not the most usable due to hardware limitations and compatibility.  

The strange thing I've noticed is that so far both AM5 and announced TR50 and WRX90 boards do not have thunderbolt 4 on board yet my current AM4 board does.   Make it make sense.  Maybe a 5950x is the way to go.  We'll have to see how different Threadripper PRO platforms really are.  IF they'll hold Thunderbolt to ransom and only put real thunderbolt on that platform. 

[dogwitch]

1 hour ago, Uttamattamakin said:

The lower end 24 core threadripper 7960X might be worth it for someone who needs/wants to virtualize a lot.  That said with an 8core CPU and DGPU using KVM and GPU passthrough I can play Cyberpunk with respectable frame rates.  At the same time I can be running a computation in Linux.  Having more headroom for that and more / better IO would be great.  A setup where every x16 slot is its own iommu group and can be passed to a VM.  Enabling giving certain VM's their own USB controller and the ability to plug hardware into the VM directly.  

Would also be great for a Qubes OS set up.   A linux like OS based entirely on running everything in one VM or the other depending on how trusted it is.    Not the most usable due to hardware limitations and compatibility.  

The strange thing I've noticed is that so far both AM5 and announced TR50 and WRX90 boards do not have thunderbolt 4 on board yet my current AM4 board does.   Make it make sense.  Maybe a 5950x is the way to go.  We'll have to see how different Threadripper PRO platforms really are.  IF they'll hold Thunderbolt to ransom and only put real thunderbolt on that platform. 

The 150-Watt 64-Core CPU - AMD Epyc Siena 8534P Review from craft.

low power  high core count.

like what a year for amd

[indrora]

As a developer, this sort of processor is really appealing for a few reasons when you get into the more complex tasks.

 

Anyone who works on OS-level work, browser development, or even just the typical Gentoo user, will appreciate the high core count and high memory throughput. Why? Because it will rip through code. Most of the time, code compilation is I/O bound, but with the sort of memory bandwidth and capacity that this can handle, it's enough that holding your entire codebase in memory is now possible and you have enough left over to do whatever compilation you need. 

 

One of the hard parts of compiling software is a part called linking -- taking all the intermediate compilation bits and binding them together. The issue is that most linkers are single-threaded, but newer advances in linkers such as one called mold take advantage of every CPU core available. 

 

Like Linus said: This is targeted right at the end of the "I need a desktop system" but where desktop-class Xeons are either non-performant enough but sticking an Epyc Genoa or Xeon Gold system underneath someone's desk isn't practical. For systems where you're CPU-bound but multithreaded to make use of as much compute power as you can get, these are nice big hammers for a very stubborn nail. 

 

These also make sense outside the HEDT space specifically. Certain virtualization workloads will benefit from these sorts of chips, especially ones that need a few cores but access to a lot of RAM alongside some specialty hardware like a GPU or dedicated accelerator card.

[Plybs]

What's that catchy smooth jazz tune in the background of the sponsor transition?

[tilden]

Not comparing the Threadripper 7000 series chips to the Intel Xeon w9 and w7 line of chips seems to be a fairly large oversite that isn't adequately addressed in the video. 

For the customer that would spend thousands of dollars on a Threadripper chip the Xeon workstation chips from this year would provide a more helpful reference point than the i9 consumer chip. 

 

For chips of this class, it could almost make more sense to compare with actual server chips and see what features and capabilities have filtered down to the "consumer" platform and which remain server exclusive.

[Cracklingice]

How did this video make it thru the ECC squad with the comment about W790 not being a direct competitor to Threadripper?  W790 is very poorly marketed, but just like Threadripper and Threadripper Pro; it is both Professional Workstation and Lite Workstation.  It just depends on the orientation of the socket.

 

When the socket is facing the traditional direction, that is a board that supports quad channel memory and is built for the Lite Workstation market.  It is also built around the 64 PCIE lane configuration of the W-2400 line of CPUs.

When the socket is in the rotated orientation, it supports octal channel and is built for the Professional Workstation market.  It is also built around the 112 lane configuration of the Xeon W-3400 line of CPUs.

*Only used this brand for demonstration as they offer both versions.

Both motherboards support both the W-2400 and W-3400 processors, but installing a W-3400 processor in the quad channel board does not allow you to utilize all of the features of the of the W-3400 CPU.  Installing a W-2400 in an octal channel board results in being unable to use 4 of the memory slots and some of the PCIE features.

Here are the charts of the W-2400 and W-3400 processors and their features.

 

(It is my personal belief that none of this stuff, including Threadripper, is HEDT.  Registered memory is not enthusiast nor are the prices.  The intel W-2400x starts at $1025 and Threadripper starts at $1500.  HEDT pricing would get both the motherboard and CPU for under 1.5k.  Honestly, the W790 refresh could potentially meet the pricing level, but it'd still require server memory.  Threadripper could also come out with a $600 12c and $900 16c and really impress me there since TRX50 boards seem to start at just $600 instead of the $800+ of W790.)

[Cracklingice]

11 hours ago, tilden said:

Not comparing the Threadripper 7000 series chips to the Intel Xeon w9 and w7 line of chips seems to be a fairly large oversite that isn't adequately addressed in the video. 

For the customer that would spend thousands of dollars on a Threadripper chip the Xeon workstation chips from this year would provide a more helpful reference point than the i9 consumer chip. 

 

For chips of this class, it could almost make more sense to compare with actual server chips and see what features and capabilities have filtered down to the "consumer" platform and which remain server exclusive.

You forgot about the W5s, but ironically while intel offers Lite Workstation W5s in addition to the Pro Workstation W5s, AMD does not offer Lite Workstation Threadrippers since they start at 24 cores.  It's a huge misstep IMO.

[Agall]

15 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

The lower end 24 core threadripper 7960X might be worth it for someone who needs/wants to virtualize a lot.  That said with an 8core CPU and DGPU using KVM and GPU passthrough I can play Cyberpunk with respectable frame rates.  At the same time I can be running a computation in Linux.  Having more headroom for that and more / better IO would be great.  A setup where every x16 slot is its own iommu group and can be passed to a VM.  Enabling giving certain VM's their own USB controller and the ability to plug hardware into the VM directly.  

Would also be great for a Qubes OS set up.   A linux like OS based entirely on running everything in one VM or the other depending on how trusted it is.    Not the most usable due to hardware limitations and compatibility.  

The strange thing I've noticed is that so far both AM5 and announced TR50 and WRX90 boards do not have thunderbolt 4 on board yet my current AM4 board does.   Make it make sense.  Maybe a 5950x is the way to go.  We'll have to see how different Threadripper PRO platforms really are.  IF they'll hold Thunderbolt to ransom and only put real thunderbolt on that platform. 

I think its still a hard sell given AM5's ECC support, 16c/32t only requiring one Windows Server license, and AM5 having plenty of PCIe for most cases. I think as a professional workstation that can benefit from more than 16c or a system that requires A LOT of PCIe expansion, it makes more sense.

 

USB4 it itself is a minefield. Someone wanting thunderbolt either has to buy specific Asus boards that have a thunderbolt controller or just go Intel instead. USB4 also doesn't guarantee thunderbolt since its an optional checkbox in the spec.

 

One use case I'd love to see is as a M.2 RAID host using full bifurcated 16x PCIe risers.

[Uttamattamakin]

24 minutes ago, Agall said:

USB4 it itself is a minefield. Someone wanting thunderbolt either has to buy specific Asus boards that have a thunderbolt controller or just go Intel instead. USB4 also doesn't guarantee thunderbolt since its an optional checkbox in the spec.

The simple way I've thought about it is that USB4 is kinda sorta Thunderbolt 3.. but not really.   While TB4 can do everything USB4 and TB3 can and more.  Which is why it feels so bizzare that the highest end motherboards for workstation on AMD don't have it ... when a last gen B550 or X570 board from ASUS does have it. 

(This board also has the feature of it not being possible to use all of the IO theoretically on the board.) 

[manikyath]

45 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

The simple way I've thought about it is that USB4 is kinda sorta Thunderbolt 3.. but not really.   While TB4 can do everything USB4 and TB3 can and more.  Which is why it feels so bizzare that the highest end motherboards for workstation on AMD don't have it ... when a last gen B550 or X570 board from ASUS does have it. 

(This board also has the feature of it not being possible to use all of the IO theoretically on the board.) 

they're essentially the same featureset with different certification for things to be called "this connector". in short USB4 is more "free open range" than TB4, but a TB4 badge sort of means it's the propper piece of kit, because large portions of USB4 are optional.

 

TB4 does have some additional bits like daisychaining being more integrated into the spec, networking over TB4 (USB4 relies on USB ethernet chipsets for this i presume.), and being more specific on the display modes it needs to support.

 

but largely both standards seem to be intent on coexisting on feature parity for the most part.

[silentdragon95]

16 hours ago, Cracklingice said:

It is my personal belief that none of this stuff, including Threadripper, is HEDT.  Registered memory is not enthusiast nor are the prices.  The intel W-2400x starts at $1025 and Threadripper starts at $1500.  HEDT pricing would get both the motherboard and CPU for under 1.5k. 

As sad as it is, HEDT like we used to know it really appears to be dead. Now to be fair, with the current core counts on consumer platforms, an important would-be unique selling point of HEDT is gone, but it's not like that was the only reason to go HEDT.

 

All I really want is more PCIe lanes, or at least the ability to split down PCIe 5 lanes into twice the amount of PCIe 4 lanes (which, let's be real, are more than fast enough). But unfortunately, the manufacturers seem to have decided that you now have to drop enormous amounts of money if you want this.

[dogwitch]

17 hours ago, Agall said:

I think its still a hard sell given AM5's ECC support, 16c/32t only requiring one Windows Server license, and AM5 having plenty of PCIe for most cases. I think as a professional workstation that can benefit from more than 16c or a system that requires A LOT of PCIe expansion, it makes more sense.

 

USB4 it itself is a minefield. Someone wanting thunderbolt either has to buy specific Asus boards that have a thunderbolt controller or just go Intel instead. USB4 also doesn't guarantee thunderbolt since its an optional checkbox in the spec.

 

One use case I'd love to see is as a M.2 RAID host using full bifurcated 16x PCIe risers.

the cpu some what. but real pci on mobos are a different story.

less pci lanes overall in a consumer board is cheaper to manf and also. most will do a form of bifurcation to chip set or what even tell you. wendell lvltech found that out with a mobo and a cpu he was working on.

[Cracklingice]

RE: Bifurcation
Bifurcation can be great some of the time; however, it is my understanding (and I could be remembering wrong - I do not have hands on experience with the situation) that all devices on the root PHY operate at the per lane transfer rate of the slowest device.  Since most of us likely want to put devices that could even be as old as PCIE Gen 2, it would really stink if the GPU suddenly found itself having to operate on 8 lanes of Gen 2.  I mean, my X99 when it is finally retired will get the fastest used enterprise network card I can reasonably justify (same with the desktop) and also at least one retired SAS HBA for hard drives.

[edit]
Having just watched Der8aur's video on the RTX 4060 Ti with M.2 SSD slot, it appears that at least some modern platforms can negotiate different generation speeds for different devices on the same 16 lane PHY when bifurcating.  It is unknown just how far that can be taken.  If I had the card, I'd be all about testing that.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Cracklingice
correction / additional information

[Cracklingice]

11 hours ago, silentdragon95 said:

As sad as it is, HEDT like we used to know it really appears to be dead. Now to be fair, with the current core counts on consumer platforms, an important would-be unique selling point of HEDT is gone, but it's not like that was the only reason to go HEDT.

 

All I really want is more PCIe lanes, or at least the ability to split down PCIe 5 lanes into twice the amount of PCIe 4 lanes (which, let's be real, are more than fast enough). But unfortunately, the manufacturers seem to have decided that you now have to drop enormous amounts of money if you want this.

Remaining silent consigns any possibility of improving the situation.  Simply adding 12c and 16c options around $600 and $900 respectively would be enough to while not being perfect, at least get close.  Then for $1500 you could go with a 12c and a high end board or a 16c and the $600 TRX50 Aero D from Gigabyte that has just 3 PCIE slots (2 gen 5 with 16 lanes each and 1 gen 4 with 16 lanes).  Or save $300 and go with the 12c on the Aero D for $1200.  While you'd still be stuck with registered server memory and these prices aren't for everyone, it would at least be somewhat attainable.
For me, perfect would be for AMD to go all Apple M1 Ultra on the consumer IOD.  Having a severable high speed interconnect that could make two consumer I/O dies by slicing it in half or one HEDT I/O die should make bring-up easier I would think.  It would offer the ability to have consumer 6-16 cores and HEDT 12-32 cores with HEDT having 4 channels of DDR5 non registered memory, 40 PCIE lanes and they could even have two chipsets like X670E but instead of chaining them together, each could have their own dedicated 4 PCIE link.

[GodAtum]

this'll be good for running proxmox and loads of VMs in a home lab!

[atxcyclist]

On 11/23/2023 at 3:44 AM, silentdragon95 said:

As sad as it is, HEDT like we used to know it really appears to be dead. Now to be fair, with the current core counts on consumer platforms, an important would-be unique selling point of HEDT is gone, but it's not like that was the only reason to go HEDT.

 

All I really want is more PCIe lanes, or at least the ability to split down PCIe 5 lanes into twice the amount of PCIe 4 lanes (which, let's be real, are more than fast enough). But unfortunately, the manufacturers seem to have decided that you now have to drop enormous amounts of money if you want this.

Threadripper 1000-series was so awesome, it was actually approachable enough that a 'desktop' customer could conceivably buy it. These prices now are just whacky, I wish I had bought a 1000 series platform when they were new.