Related to grey market phone importing: I shouldn't have to import phones to North America just to be able to unlock devices I OWN...

[Mnky313]

For me it's not about pricing (in the US), obviously it's cheaper to buy new and used devices from the US market (in most cases) however I still import Samsung phones just because they refuse to allow unlocking of the bootloader on North American models (U/U1/W).

I see bootloader unlocking FALSELY related to Snapdragon vs Exynos chips however this is not the case, It's easily disproved by the existence of the 0 variants which are both unlockable and use snapdragon SoCs. Same thing with Z devices, all Z devices use Snapdragon SoCs (as of now) and yet some variants (B/N) are unlockable yet U/U1/W are not.

I don't really know who to blame here, I would blame Samsung but if they really wanted to stop bootloader unlocking I feel like they would just do it for all regions... So I can only assume it's something to do with carriers, especially because similar stuff happens with Verizon specifically (Verizon Pixel devices are not unlockable yet other devices (even in the US) are...).

 

It's getting harder and harder to find devices I want to upgrade to, I really like Samsung's software (once you remove all the useless garbage) and their hardware is also pretty good but between having to match up LTE (and now 5G) bands to find the 1 model of device that works reasonably on my (US) carrier and having to actually find one for sale at a reasonable price that's either willing to ship internationally or has already imported one it becomes a nightmare.

You might say 'well, just don't use Samsung devices' but that's not the argument I'm trying to have. I keep with Samsung because of the great customization to community IF you have an unlockable one. Some stuff does still work and I did daily a US model for a bit but eventually gave up and imported one.

I'm surprised there's almost no talk about unlocking bootloaders, how is it that I can pay $1000+ for a device and not unlock it so I can use it how I want???

I happen to actually own 3 variants of the Note9 and it really shows my issues with this kind of stuff:

my N960F can run OneUI 5.1 (thanks nobleROM <3) but has god awful coverage/speeds (thanks Carrier Aggregation) in the US making it not useful as a day-to-day device.
my N9600 can run (non-OneUI) versions of android up to 13 currently (maybe 14 with GSI images) but because of that lacks voLTE support (which is a WHOLE NOTHER discussion) and certain software that benefits the experience
my N960U is stuck on OneUI 2.5 which is slowly losing support...

both the N9600 and N960F can run up to date versions of android with little to no issues however because of Samsung's stupid locks the US model cannot. Their locks/proprietary BS is also the reason voLTE doesn't work...

I also don't understand the argument that 'it makes sense from a business perspective' should be seen as anything other than greed... Not to mention that 99% of people aren't going to flash custom ROMs on their devices anyway.... I can't imagine it would impact sales of people upgrading their devices to noticeable degree at all.

 

I'm hoping someone brings up bootloaders as part of right to repair movements because not being able to unlock a device that you own is completely ridiculous IMO, I get that 99% of people won't do it but again, they don't have to. No one is forcing you to unlock it & the security argument is total BS. It's not something you can accidentally do nor is it something that isn't super obvious if you're buying a phone (especially Samsung) used. There's a big fuck off warning on every reboot (in fact there's 2 warnings) and the warranty bit is set (which can be checked in recovery mode).

This is mostly just a rant about the current state of the phone market but I invite discussion on what people agree/disagree with and talking about your experiences.

[TetraSky]

I quite like my Brazil imported Samsung phone I got on Amazon.ca. I can natively record phone call on it. Something Samsung North America decided we weren't allowed to have because Google said so?
Buddy got the same phone from a carrier up here, no call recording.

We're literally legally allowed to record our phone calls, yet they don't want us to.

 

Though I believe newer Samsung phones have that functionality blocked wordwide now, except maybe for the Indian market.

[Mnky313]

33 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

I quite like my Brazil imported Samsung phone I got on Amazon.ca. I can natively record phone call on it. Something Samsung North America decided we weren't allowed to have because Google said so?
Buddy got the same phone from a carrier up here, no call recording.

We're literally legally allowed to record our phone calls, yet they don't want us to.

 

Though I believe newer Samsung phones have that functionality blocked wordwide now, except maybe for the Indian market.

That's a CSC thing, not sure which have it but I also have it unlocked on my ZFold3 (though that's unlocked through a Xposed module).

[Cooldoe]

Bringing it as part of right to repair movement will hinder it as this will be the point that most manufacturer will point out.

 

One reason for locking it is due to countries import restrictions so they want to limit the ability to bring other countries phone illegally to use

[Mnky313]

58 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

Bringing it as part of right to repair movement will hinder it as this will be the point that most manufacturer will point out.

 

One reason for locking it is due to countries import restrictions so they want to limit the ability to bring other countries phone illegally to use

how exactly does bootloader locking change what other region phones can be imported/used? Flashing a different region firmware on a BL unlocked device doesn't unlock LTE/5G bands + you can use a bootloader locked phone in another region with it's original firmware (assuming band support)...

grey market importing of devices is related to this post but I'm talking about running custom firmware/OS on a device, not changing regions. You can already use a US samsung phone in most regions (because it supports loads of bands) even though it's BL locked. In fact you can flash the US firmware to a BL locked canadian variant as well if you really want to, same with flashing carrier unlocked firmware on a carrier branded device (this doesn't remove the carrier lock but it does remove carrier specific bloatware/cusomtizations).

EVERY other region (apart from US/Canada/Puerto Rico) uses variants that can be bootloader unlocked (only U/U1/W are locked).... So I don't really understand your argument.

[Cooldoe]

23 minutes ago, Mnky313 said:

how exactly does bootloader locking change what other region phones can be imported/used? Flashing a different region firmware on a BL unlocked device doesn't unlock LTE/5G bands + you can use a bootloader locked phone in another region with it's original firmware (assuming band support)...

grey market importing of devices is related to this post but I'm talking about running custom firmware/OS on a device, not changing regions. You can already use a US samsung phone in most regions (because it supports loads of bands) even though it's BL locked. In fact you can flash the US firmware to a BL locked canadian variant as well if you really want to, same with flashing carrier unlocked firmware on a carrier branded device (this doesn't remove the carrier lock but it does remove carrier specific bloatware/cusomtizations).

EVERY other region (apart from US/Canada/Puerto Rico) uses variants that can be bootloader unlocked (only U/U1/W are locked).... So I don't really understand your argument.

It is basically changing their software which is one of the main argument from the manufacturer. It also create a possibility to undo carrier lock which is another point.

 

Basically the fight for right to repair is a steep hill already. Adding bootloader that does not effect regular consumer would make the fight harder.

After the right of repair fight is won, maybe bootloader can be part of it

[Mnky313]

3 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

It is basically changing their software which is one of the main argument from the manufacturer. It also create a possibility to undo carrier lock which is another point.

 

Basically the fight for right to repair is a steep hill already. Adding bootloader that does not effect regular consumer would make the fight harder.

After the right of repair fight is won, maybe bootloader can be part of it

you can already flash unlocked firmware on a carrier locked device even with the bootloader locked....

It doesn't remove the carrier lock, neither does unlocking the bootloader and flashing custom firmware (at least not easily).

Also, even having a system like LG had where you had to request the unlock key which was tied to your DID and would only be given if the device was unlocked/paid off is a great middle ground.

In fact Samsung has this it's just not for end users, there was a paid service a while ago that allowed US models to be unlocked because someone has access to Samsung's internal tools.

I do get your argument that right to repair is already an uphill battle. I guess it makes sense why it's not talked about more but it still pisses me off that it exists xD