Microsoft might want to be making Windows 12 a subscription OS

[TetraSky]

If it truly comes to pass that they make a subscription only OS... I'll move to Linux. Already tried moving more than once, but never since Steam's Proton. I was planning to ride Windows 10 until its untimely death in 2025... but man, I really hope Microsoft doesn't do this.

 

24 minutes ago, manikyath said:

explain like i'm 87 why i need windows pro, you have 10 words of space on a marketing banner.

For the majority of people, it likely doesn't matter. In fact, I'm pretty sure all the "locked" features of Windows Pro, have third party alternatives available.

[whispous]

I'm more concerned about Windows becoming free - (for a home version) - as it would imply some really poisonous monetisation tactics.

I want to pay for Windows - once. I don't want it free* (*with poison)

[starsmine]

Yes, one of the editions would be subscription based.
not all of the editions.
yall do know you can buy microsoft office still and get the newest versions of everything. And not use 365.

[TheLANguy]

26 minutes ago, Heats with Nvidia said:

"NEVER enter your data or pay money if they don`t need it to ship something to you or it`s something you wanted to subscribe to on your own. EVERYTHING else is a scam, even if your computer tells you otherwise. "

 

That worked surprisingly well even with the elderly.

That is some advice elderly people need to hear.

35 minutes ago, hishnash said:

I have seen a good number of machines from regular consumer (not young tec-savy users) with Norton and when asked they said "That came with it" ... the users have subscribed. 

I have seen too many people with subscriptions to Norton and McAfee when I am repairing computers.

Microsoft makes it worse by having official "antivirus partners" and allowing them to integrate seamlessly with windows defender. Why? I am quite sure Microsoft gets a cut from the sales.

Its all for the money.

[hishnash]

50 minutes ago, Heats with Nvidia said:

Because they all know the first rule of using a computer. It is:

A few people I have talked to on this said they figured it was ok since this was stuff included with the compute they purchased so it was not a scam.  

[hishnash]

34 minutes ago, whispous said:

I'm more concerned about Windows becoming free - (for a home version) - as it would imply some really poisonous monetisation tactics.

 

I would not be surprised if free (non subscription ) is more like windows S (in regions were they can get away with it) 

[TheLANguy]

35 minutes ago, whispous said:

I'm more concerned about Windows becoming free - (for a home version) - as it would imply some really poisonous monetisation tactics.

I want to pay for Windows - once. I don't want it free* (*with poison)

I agree with you there!

Microsoft already knows people don't pay for Windows, that's why they are trying to monetize home edition with ads and junkware.

 

Personally, I think Microsoft should be investing in creating a lightweight version of Windows that can run on Chromebook type devices.

[hishnash]

57 minutes ago, manikyath said:

does "antitrust lawsuit" ring a bell?

maybe "dark patterns" does?

I don think they would get hit with an anti-trust lawsuit here, it is not different from offering a 1 year license of Office 365 with your laptop purchase, offering windows Pro for one year is just the same.  

[hishnash]

9 minutes ago, TheLANguy said:

I have seen too many people with subscriptions to Norton and McAfee when I am repairing computers.

Microsoft makes it worse by having official "antivirus partners" and allowing them to integrate seamlessly with windows defender. Why? I am quite sure Microsoft gets a cut from the sales.

Its all for the money.

yep, just think of how good a conversion rate MS would get with these same people to subscribe to windows pro or windows unlimited when the one year fee expired on these OEM devices (or even when existing users upgrade from 11 to 12 and the 1 year of 12 pro expires). 

I expect there are people at MS who see how much they are making from the small cut they get from these ani-visu subs and are thinking about how much more they will make if they just got people to pay them directly for windows... 

MS has the mucsel with OEMs to make them basicly all include the trail remember. 

[StDragon]

The freakout over this is unwarranted. No way would Microsoft require a subscription to use the OS for the general consumer market. If that were to occur, it would push gamers to SteamOS, Chrome for web apps productivity, and OSX. The dirty little secret is that laptops get repurposed for family members or as secondary devices. No one wants to be billed monthly or annually for what otherwise is a core function of a computer, the OS. If it's a business or some other organization, it probably works out in their favor as an operational expenditure.

The only way I could imagine Windows having a subscription would be for value-add functionality. Meaning, you're not paying for what you're currently accustomed to, but rather paying for extras you don't already have or enjoy.

[hishnash]

Just now, StDragon said:

No way would Microsoft require a subscription to use the OS for the general consumer market.

They could easily require a sub to use windows Pro or infact anything begone the un-activated base windows that you can use without a license today.

I expect they will let you boot and use windows without subscribing (after all you need to have your device turned on so you can enter that credit card number)... but want to change your desktop wallpaper, want to get ride of the activation water mark, want to use file sharing... or any other obscure feature "subscribe now" OEM devices will like they do today ship with 1 year of windows Pro (just like they do for all the other bloat wear). 

MS might then throw in other streaming options with windows pro sbuscrbiotn, include game pass and access to a cloud windows 365 instance (long term that is were they want high end compute to exist not localy on a machine you own). 

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, TheLANguy said:

Personally, I think Microsoft should be investing in creating a lightweight version of Windows that can run on Chromebook type devices.

They tried that already with Windows RT - though it was more tablet focused. It flopped pretty badly.

 

They also had Windows 10 S - same thing, a lightweight version of Windows, and it wasn't popular either.

 

IMO I don't see how they could make a modern lightweight version while also keeping all the backwards compatibility people expect.

 

Granted, there's a lot of room to debloat the existing full Windows.

[hishnash]

9 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

IMO I don't see how they could make a modern lightweight version while also keeping all the backwards compatibility people expect.

 

From my understanding (at least in the professional tooling space, like legacy engineering tools etc) MS plan for backwards compabilty is cloud based windows365 VMs with local device port forwarding, in effect they want companies (and users at some point) to subscribe to a service that runs in azure.   They have put a good amount of preauser (and money) getting companies to support this platform for B2B software. 

[TheLANguy]

13 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

They tried that already with Windows RT - though it was more tablet focused. It flopped pretty badly.

 

They also had Windows 10 S - same thing, a lightweight version of Windows, and it wasn't popular either.

 

IMO I don't see how they could make a modern lightweight version while also keeping all the backwards compatibility people expect.

 

Granted, there's a lot of room to debloat the existing full Windows.

I am aware of Microsoft's numerous failures.

The thing is, educational institutions are giving Chromebooks to students. If Microsoft wants Windows to remain the most used operating system, they need to develop a direct competitor.

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, TheLANguy said:

I am aware of Microsoft's numerous failures.

The thing is, educational institutions are giving Chromebooks to students. If Microsoft wants Windows to remain the most used operating system, they need to develop a direct competitor.

They did. It didn't sell. Windows 10 S was literally a direct competitor to Chromebooks, and was marketed directly to schools and education. It failed.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible for such a thing to succeed, but people have certain expectations when it comes to Windows - for better or worse.

[Donut417]

Like others have replied. I dont feel they would just go to a subscription based OS for home use. First of all back in the day they used to have a 96% market share, not its in the 80% range. There are other options on there and Microsoft knows this. 

 

26 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

They tried that already with Windows RT - though it was more tablet focused. It flopped pretty badly.

 

They also had Windows 10 S - same thing, a lightweight version of Windows, and it wasn't popular either.

Well the reason their ARM offerings were not successful is due to the fact they used the "Windows" branding. When people hear "Windows" they think of a OS with an epic software library and the ARM versions of Windows at the time didn't have the ability to run any x86 programs. Thats partly why Windows phone failed in my opinion. 

 

I think Windows 10 S was mainly due to the fact everyone upgraded it to a full version, because no one wants to be locked to the Windows store. Microsoft missed the boat on being able to have a locked down ecosystem like Apple by a few decades. All because Steve Ballmer didn't take the iPhone seriously when it was released. 

[hishnash]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Microsoft missed the boat on being able to have a locked down ecosystem like Apple by a few decades. All because Steve Ballmer didn't take the iPhone seriously when it was released. 

MS could still do it but would just need to not call it windows, just like apple does not call iOS/iPadOS macOS.   If they created something calls Surface OS for these ARM laptops and it was windows S with its limitations there would not be the expectation of it being windows.  

 

 

[Avus]

MS Windows subscription don't have to stick with Home and Pro tier. I can easily think of a few ways to charge Windows user

Windows 12 Basic: no subscription, not activated, less customized features, NO ChatGPT Windows search

Windows 12 Ai: subscription activated, full customization, ChatGPT Windows search.

Windows 12 business: subscription activated, replacing volume licensing.

 

Windows don't have to stick a DECADES old business model.

[Donut417]

15 minutes ago, hishnash said:

If they created something calls Surface OS for these ARM laptops and it was windows S with its limitations there would not be the expectation of it being windows.  

The issue is, the ARM version of Windows, their phone, Xbox and the standard PC all use the same Kernel. I dont see Microsoft making an OS from the ground up. They would just use the same Windows kernel and everyone would still considered it be to be a bastard version of Windows. 

 

Plus during the Windows RT era, Emulating x86 on ARM was either not possible or just the most shitty experience. Im going to guess now days its a bit better. So now they really dont have a reason. 

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Avus said:

NO ChatGPT

I mean I consider that a plus. I really dont want AI in my OS anyway. 

[hishnash]

34 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The issue is, the ARM version of Windows, their phone, Xbox and the standard PC all use the same Kernel. I dont see Microsoft making an OS from the ground up. They would just use the same Windows kernel and everyone would still considered it be to be a bastard version of Windows. 

Regular consumers do not think about the kernel in use.  

 

iOS and macOS both use Darwin with a few compile time macros to add and remove bits.

 

Just look at xbox regular users are not expecting it to run PC games they purchased elsewhere (it could but it does not), if they called it Windows Gaming console that would be different. 

 

[hishnash]

43 minutes ago, Avus said:

Windows 12 Basic: no subscription, not activated, less customized features, NO ChatGPT Windows search

Windows 12 Ai: subscription activated, full customization, ChatGPT Windows search.

Windows 12 business: subscription activated, replacing volume licensing.

Yes I expect there will be a non activated option that uses can use (that includes the water mark), removes some features and fills the OS with ads. 

Then there will be the subscription that unlocks all those bits and yes adds AI assistant features (for consumers I expect it might include office and cloud streamed gaming, one drive storage, outlook email etc)
 

And yes for companies MS want to move to a per user account model were the license is fon-trasfurable between users, were each user has an active director account.  

As people noticed with windows 11 push to require a MS online account, I expect 12 will due ot the sub effectively always require it without any option for local only users.   I think it is also possible the subscription might be per user not per machine. (with a family option like other vendors) this would like up better with cloud services and AI usage and would nicely map to providing Office and cloud gaming across other devices (non MS devices) for that user.   Also provides better continuity if users do upgrade machines down the road for MS subscrbiton just continues as they login with their existing account. 

[TheLANguy]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

They did. It didn't sell. Windows 10 S was literally a direct competitor to Chromebooks, and was marketed directly to schools and education. It failed.

Well from my experience deploying laptops with Windows 10 S, it was a poor competitor.

[TheLANguy]

49 minutes ago, hishnash said:

And yes for companies MS want to move to a per user account model were the license is fon-trasfurable between users, were each user has an active director account. 
As people noticed with windows 11 push to require a MS online account, I expect 12 will due ot the sub effectively always require it without any option for local only users.   I think it is also possible the subscription might be per user not per machine. (with a family option like other vendors) this would like up better with cloud services and AI usage and would nicely map to providing Office and cloud gaming across other devices (non MS devices) for that user.   Also provides better continuity if users do upgrade machines down the road for MS subscrbiton just continues as they login with their existing account. 

Although I am not a fan of Microsoft accounts and prefer local accounts, the subscription per Microsoft account business model makes $ense.

They would properly advertise some form data of carry over if you log on with another machine.

[StDragon]

30 minutes ago, TheLANguy said:

Although I am not a fan of Microsoft accounts and prefer local accounts, the subscription per Microsoft account business model makes $ense.

They would properly advertise some form data of carry over if you log on with another machine.

It's inline with what Apple and Google does in that regard; it's all about their cloud ecosystem as a whole and its cultivation.
 

Windows is a thick-client OS, but they're trying to hybridize that so as to sync as much into the cloud as possible.