Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[RasmusDC]

11 minutes ago, McGherkin said:

There isn’t anything majorly wrong with the content of the meeting. That’s not what’s being discussed.

 

The fact is the meeting happened, and Linus’s comments in the meeting date it to around the time Madison left, which means Linus and everyone in that meeting has been aware that allegations were made at the time.

 

Therefore when Linus stated to the Verge yesterday that he didn’t recognise anything from Madison’s thread, that is demonstrably a false statement, because he WAS aware of at the very least an accusation of impropriety when Madison left the country.

okay agree that that statement might be an issue, but i see no real problem with having a reaction to an employee spreading a negative word about the company, and then having a meeting to enforce company rules.

 

To be honest, and i am BRUTALLY guessing here, the Madison thing looks like a lower management failure, more than Linus failing. 

 

you loose control when organizations get big. you have to delegate. and his LT is really immature.. also sold well by James on that meeting..

 

and .. is it a false statement, if he honestly don´t see that behavior himself. i am not protecting the guy, i have had a barrage on him in the thread about him and GN.. i think he does many things wrong..

 

IF he as a CEO have SEEN that behavior, then he has to react..

 

the Verge you say is that he says that he did not recognize it, that is saying that he does not SEE that type of sexual harrasment and bullying, that is not him saying that he did not know about the accusation..

 

To be honest, a public fight on this ends up hurting the victim just as much.  it can change the company culture and maybe fix it for others... but there needs to be much more, and there needs to be evidence.

 

this is such a loose fight...  

[McGherkin]

1 minute ago, RasmusDC said:

okay agree that that statement might be an issue, but i see no real problem with having a reaction to an employee spreading a negative word about the company, and then having a meeting to enforce company rules.

 

To be honest, and i am BRUTALLY guessing here, the Madison thing looks like a lower management failure, more than Linus failing. 

 

you loose control when organizations get big. you have to delegate. and his LT is really immature.. also sold well by James on that meeting..

 

and .. is it a false statement, if he honestly don´t see that behavior himself. i am not protecting the guy, i have had a barrage on him in the thread about him and GN.. i think he does many things wrong..

 

IF he as a CEO have SEEN that behavior, then he has to react..

 

the Verge you say is that he says that he did not recognize it, that is saying that he does not SEE that type of sexual harrasment and bullying, that is not him saying that he did not know about the accusation..

 

To be honest, a public fight on this ends up hurting the victim just as much.  it can change the company culture and maybe fix it for others... but there needs to be much more, and there needs to be evidence.

 

this is such a loose fight... 

I agree that this was probably the first Linus heard of it, as he seems pretty hurt that it’s not gone to him directly by that point. 
 

it does also lend weight to the accusation being credible, because if Madison had made a completely false statement on her way out that was quickly dispelled, there would be no point in pulling in all the staff and asking them to report anything else they see after she left.

[Viviem]

3 minutes ago, Mages said:

I'm surprised I don't see people talking about how insane it is to slice your leg open to go to the ER because of your work place. Who in their right mind inflicts self harm over a job... To me this raises a lot more questions about the credibility of the claims. 

multiple current and former employees have liked her posts, some of them even directly corroborating them, just because you can not understand why someone would be driven to take an extreme action to get judgement-free time off from an overly demanding workplace does not mean there is any reason to doubt the validity of her claims. 

[Uzrathixius]

9 minutes ago, Majestic12 said:

I've also been aware for a very long time that there's likely a tiered culture in LMG - the "old guard" and a select few of the newcomers who have strong compatible personalities would be closely knit I imagine and then you have "nameless" employees who all struggle to become good enough or stick out to appear in videos so I'm sure there's some hard competition happening behind doors.

Which, frankly, is rather natural. This will be around at almost any small company once you outgrow the tiny startup phase. 

I can't speak for her experience in social media prior to LMG besides...somehow garnering a fan base for being annoying on a video. But I certainly can imagine one thinking a Social media manager / creator / post monke would be an easy job, then being faced with the reality that it's not as easy as one expects. 

 

  

2 minutes ago, Viviem said:

just because you can not understand why someone would be driven to take an extreme action to get judgement-free time off from an overly demanding workplace does not mean there is any reason to doubt the validity of her claims. 

Disagree. Someone acting crazy is a valid reason to doubt their claims. 

[RasmusDC]

Just now, McGherkin said:

I agree that this was probably the first Linus heard of it, as he seems pretty hurt that it’s not gone to him directly by that point. 
 

it does also lend weight to the accusation being credible, because if Madison had made a completely false statement on her way out that was quickly dispelled, there would be no point in pulling in all the staff and asking them to report anything else they see after she left.

i have seen a guy being completely hanged on a cross, because he was EXTREME introvert, and a girl felt creeped out by him, so she felt harrassed by him. the guy was just not good in open spaces, he did not say ANYTHING, but got destroyed by this feeling that this girl had, after i saw that, and tried really hard to support.. i must admit, even though i HAVE a feeling, i ALWAYS dive deep REALLY deep when we have these cases.. and also put very much reflection on my  dialogue on work, because things that really are not meant negatively..

 

I had some fun banter at a time with a girl collegue, where she like tore me a new one, and i like pushed a bit back, where a 3rd girl, took that as "brutal" where we had to sit down and have an open dialogue and meet it head on, because it ends up creating more drama if you do not have these talks.. (not sexual, she made fun of Denmark, i took a stab at her Ex Russia birth place)

 

so i fully support dialogue.. because we are different people, with different tolerances, but we still also have to have the ability to talk relaxed and have a fun work life...

 

and it also helps you figure out what language work.. and WHEN and where you can open up. 

 

it is less relaxed to work in a job today. 

 

We also had 2 guys getting a warning, because they were both CHUBBY guys, and they where like making fun of eachother, ONLY eachother a bit, and a 3rd collegue reported them, because she felt hurt by it.. 

 

it is a different world, some is good some is bad, and we have to evolve. 

[digitalscream]

40 minutes ago, avgvstvs said:

I don't get it why you're saying that it should be a civil case. If her allegations are true, someone commited a fellony. Shouldn't it be a criminal case then? She is saying that she was grabbed, for f**s sake. What does that even mean? Sounds really bad to me.

Because she went public without reporting it to the authorities - it would be near-impossible to prove in a criminal court, and no prosecutor would go near a case that was just somebody "grabbing" her several years ago after it's already generated this much discourse (and she's prejudiced it by going public). Not to mention that the grab isn't the focus of her complaints - it's the workplace bullying; otherwise she'd have opened with that and everything else would have been just to support that claim.

 

I'm not saying it should be a civil case, I'm saying that a) it's realistically never going to be a criminal case, and b) it would only be a civil case if LMG decided to take her to court for defamation...which is looking increasingly unlikely (if it ever was).

48 minutes ago, McGherkin said:

This is true.

 

However, Linus has claimed that he did not recognise any of the claims. This was false. The meeting audio proves it.

 

This could be a mind fart, but I’d highly doubt you’d read that and not remember that she raised concerns when she left prompting a meeting for the entire company. 

I'd say that, being mildly charitable, all the meeting proves is that it's likely Linus heard about some complaints she'd made. Given the structure of the company, I'd guess that it wasn't Linus doing her exit interview; if the one doing that interview was also part of the problem, it's reasonably likely that the details of her complaint were minimised and obscured. As result, and combined with the fact that Linus describes himself as "not a details guy", both things could be true - he was aware of some complaints which prompted the meeting and he genuinely doesn't recognise any of the specifics that she mentioned in her Twitter thread.

[digitalscream]

2 hours ago, Uzrathixius said:

The saying is jack of all trades, master of one. The none thing is relatively modern and twists the meaning. 

Actually, it's "jack of all trades", or "jack of all trades, master of none", or "jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one". It's never been "jack of all trades, master of one".

[Kiwamu]

I'm gonna be very candid here, but want to lead in that while I believe Madison's accounts, I still subscribe to innocent after proven / found guilty. 

 

With that out of the way it's shocking to me that (how it reads on the Verge, I am reading here into a statement) Linus seemingly did not know, yet had an HR meeting about the guidelines. Also a 4 minute meeting after someone left about alleged mistreatment and sexual harrasment. This should have been taken longer than just 4 minutes... but it seems there was no time with all the rushed videos and schedule...

[fritzmg]

I feel so sorry for Madison. We all rooted for her - and her dream job. I do hope LMG can turn this ship around and remove systemic problems that lead to what happened to her - and what happened to LMG videos in recent time (meaning what Gamer's Nexus put a light on). For the sake of all current and future employees.

[Alex T88]

7 hours ago, Neroon said:

I guess they accused are guilty already of whatever they did. Of course we don't know who the accused are, nor what they actually did, because there are no names or context. Just a lot of accusations.

I agree. That's why I even specified "given what she says it's true". Presuming she is telling the truth, the way she acted is in accordance with that. On the other hand I have no reason to suspect that she is lying or that she has ill intent . In my opinion, it would take a really messed-up person, with the mental sanity in shambles, to make up such stories. And I am in no position of making assumptions in regards to her mental sanity.

[SoldiersFortune]

There are a lot of people in here saying things like, "if she was treated this badly why didn't she go to the authorities?" or "if these allegations are true, she should sue!" or "the timing of her coming out with this information is very suspicious." While I don't know that much about Canadian law, there are very good reasons why someone in this sort of situation wouldn't be able to take these accusations to court.

 

When it comes to workplace abuse here in the United States, it is critical for employees to create a paper trail that they can access if they are ever fired. This means, if an abuse happens, the employee has to notify HR via email from a non-work related email account in order to show proof that HR was notified about these violations. Madison mentions that she went to talk to HR and that a lot of there interactions were strictly verbal in nature. This was a huge but understandable mistake as a lot of employees make the assumption that HR is there to protect them, when in reality, HR departments exist to protect the company.

 

Additionally, the idea that an employee can "just leave" an abusive company whenever they want is not accurate. Lots of young professionals who are just starting out don't have the extra money in savings to leave without another job already looking to hire them. Additionally, if you are just starting out in your preferred career field, it can be devastating if your previous employer is contacted for a reference and ends up portraying you as a problem employee for speaking up.

 

Large companies have a massive advantage in court when it comes to finances and documentation. And the stress of the legal process is absolutely terrible on someone who is already suffering with poor mental health. Often, it just doesn't seem worthwhile to sue a large company as an individual.

 

Just as an example, there are several companies that I worked for in the past that I could have sued for wage theft as they were clearly violating federal labor laws. However, even with documented proof of these abuses, I realized I would ultimately still lose in the long run. And the fear that my former employers could retaliate by sabotaging my future work opportunities was also a huge factor. Even if they did retaliate and I could prove it, all that would mean was more legal action that could get drawn out and ultimately make my life a living hell.

 

I'm not saying that Madison's allegations are 100% true. I am only saying that her actions make sense in the context of an ex-employee who was scared to speak out against a very public and popular employer. It also makes sense that she would vent all of this on Twitter as this might be the only way to hold LTT accountable at this point if she doesn't have a paper trail she can take to court. Even if she doesn't have documented proof of these abuses, there is the possibility that other employees who do have documented proof of their own mistreatment may come forward and rally together.

 

I sincerely hope that what Madison is alleging is not true, but none of us can afford to completely dismiss it out of hand. People don't come forward with these kinds of abuses because they are afraid of being victim-blamed. Don't perpetuate the cycle.

[Vexenar]

18 minutes ago, fritzmg said:

I feel so sorry for Madison. We all rooted for her - and her dream job. I do hope LMG can turn this ship around and remove systemic problems that lead to what happened to her - and what happened to LMG videos in recent time (meaning what Gamer's Nexus put a light on). For the sake of all current and future employees.

At this rate we are talking about systemic problems that are most likely at the core of the upper management, I honestly can't see how they can fix these issues without some heads having to roll. 

What also baffles me is Linus being caught on a lie again in his interview with the Verge, as the anonymous recording of the meeting clearly shows that he was aware of allegations yet chose to apparently do nothing with them, and now once again feels personally attacked for it being out in the open. 

The fact so many people in the meeting did not know there is an anonymous way to report problems in a company like LMG is once again baffling, and it points to systemic problems in upper management and their role to inform new hires about their rights. At this rate I'm just going to outright say it and point towards LMG workers having to unionize because Linus for better or worse has failed to defend their rights. 

At this point Linus just needs to shut up because everything he says publicly only damages his credibility. 
 

[starsmine]

10 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

At this rate we are talking about systemic problems that are most likely at the core of the upper management, I honestly can't see how they can fix these issues without some heads having to roll. 

What also baffles me is Linus being caught on a lie again in his interview with the Verge, as the anonymous recording of the meeting clearly shows that he was aware of allegations yet chose to apparently do nothing with them, and now once again feels personally attacked for it being out in the open. 

The fact so many people in the meeting did not know there is an anonymous way to report problems in a company like LMG is once again baffling, and it points to systemic problems in upper management and their role to inform new hires about their rights. At this rate I'm just going to outright say it and point towards LMG workers having to unionize because Linus for better or worse has failed to defend their rights. 

At this point Linus just needs to shut up because everything he says publicly only damages his credibility. 
 

Thats not being caught in a lie.

Being aware of issues, and being aware of the extent of issues are two VERY different things.

Also that leaked video has been out for half a year now, he was aware of it. 

[avg123]

very smart of them to allow discussion on their forum so most of it remains on their platform

[BigFatTeddy]

7 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

If any malfeasance turns up, the best I can hope for, what I want, is for LMG to find some way to make it as right as possible for Madison. Doesn’t have to be publicized, should be up to her. 
 

Not quite sure what “making it right” would look like, besides some dollar amount, and crackdown at work. And while a dollar amount is certainly a part of it, that alone seems all too common a gesture, especially for the immense risk she faces from putting forward her statements. 
 

I’m not upset, but rather saddened at the bitterness all around, and the conflict on display. 
 

There isn’t much left to do but to allow the audit to unfold. Asking of anything else from either party, besides to uncover the truth as best as possible, is not currently reasonable. 

I disagree in one detail: However this is handled, and even though Madison chose to publish this in the way she did, I would strongly encourage all involved parties to remediate this privately. This story should not be dragged through the muddy waters of youtube, X or the rest of the internet. Especially since Madison claims that it hurt her so much.

 

However this is going to be resolved, the internet-mob will hunt both parties, hurting both parties regardless of their responsibility, their accountability, or even their intentions. "Making it right" will be hard, considering the circumstances, considering the legal avenues available to both parties and also considering the extreme publicity both parties have and seek.

 

Everybody on the internet is just in it for the story, including you and me, and this should not be - for the sake of all involved parties - treated like "another story". Especially for Madison, the price to pay might be too high.

[BigFatTeddy]

Just now, avg123 said:

very smart of them to allow discussion on their forum so most of it remains on their platform

Ah, the internet. No way to please 'em. If they would have forbidden it, the story would be "Censorship!", now it's a "smart move" to keep it on their platform. Whatever "they" do, it would always be considered devious and malicious, right?

[Vexenar]

4 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Thats not being caught in a lie.

Being aware of issues, and being aware of the extent of issues are two VERY different things.

Also that leaked video has been out for half a year now, he was aware of it. 

We can discuss semantics but with the friendly atmosphere between higher management, Yvonne and Linus there is no way he was not aware to the extent of the issues raised. Especially when you take into account that he is a controlling narcissist with an ego complex that takes any bad criticism raised against his company personally.

There is no /real/ HR department to speak of, at least for the people working at LMG. It's mostly there to cover their own asses. 

[620R]

The real underlying problem is that LMG doesn't seem to have proper HR procedures and standards in place. This was just a big problem waiting to happen. Now, I don't know if the Madison allegations are real or not, but what we can understand by this whole thing is that the whole LMG stood on a "just don't misbehave" policy, where it dumped all the responsibility on how to behave on the workers rather to inform them on how to behave correctly in a workplace. This is extremely important in companies like LMG where you need to discerne between being on camera and off-camera. Maybe I'm ok with doing lots of sexual innuendos on camera, as part of my character, but I'm not ok doing or receiving them off-camera. A bit like an actor is ok being groped in a scene (if it was required) but it's not ok when they're having their lunch.

That meeting tells us a lot about how things work at LMG.

First a 4 minute meeting about a serious SH allegation is totally unthinkable by me, there should be a lot of things to say, 4 minutes should have been just the introduction. I've had longer meetings to tell us to not smoke or use flamethrowers while we were refueling things or not do extremely stupid stuff. Condensing such a serious issue in a 4 minute meeting is so absurd. Like, The Office absurd. 

To cite Linus during the meeting:

Quote

 If you have a problem, you need to speak up. We want to fix it. If you receive feedback about somebody else at this company, the first response is, have you spoken with this person? Followed closely by, you need to speak with this person. We don't solve interpersonal issues here, or really anywhere in your life, if you wish to live in a drama free zone, by engaging in water cooler politicking.

Which it doesn't make particular sense to me. There are many kind of complaints, you can't just put them all in the same category. Like, you can't treat a complaint about Janet eating too loudly and Bob urinating in the sink in the same way. In the first case you should go to Janet and ask if they can chew more quietly, so the suggested path by Linus is correct, but Bob urinating in the sink is a problem that should go straight to HR.

They are right to say that minor complaints should be resolved by coworkers and not involve upper management or HR, but then don't give an example or instruct and inform people do discerne between what is and isn't a valid complain for management or HR. You need to educate people on these kind of things, especially if you run a very young company with very young people who might be employed for the first time of their life and know absolutely anything about the office life, how it works, how they should navigate between complaints, who they should speak to.

He then adds: 

Quote

 

So, if for any reason that individual is not comfortable approaching the person they're having a conflict with, we have a chain that they're supposed to follow.

So first, you advise them to take the problem to their manager. Followed by me or Yvonne, followed by our third party HR firm. I hope that you all trust that we're here to make this a safe, fun, and productive workplace, and we won't tolerate mistreatment of any of our team members.

 

Which, again, doesn't make sense. HR and managers aren't the same thing, there are problems where you should talk to a manager and problems where you should talk to HR. That's why they are two separate entities and one can't be the other. If Janet doesn't do her reports correctly, the first complaint should be to the manager, then Linus or Yvonne, HR has noting to do with this, especially if it's a 3rd party firm that may not know anything about what work it's been done. 

If someone is a bit too touchy, makes lots of sexual innuendos, doesn't shower enough (BO problems), watches NSFW material in the office, then is a HR problem and not management's one. So, if Bob watches porn in the office, the complain should be wrote and directed immediately to HR, and not go through all the chain Linus said. That's why HR exists, otherwise managers would do all the work. 

Furthermore: 

Quote

 

If you would prefer to provide your feedback anonymously, we have an option for that as well.

It's the manager and co worker feedback form. Uh, Yvonne, if you're not aware of it, show of hands who is not aware of it. Hey, a lot of people aren't aware of it. Good, so now we all know. 

 

Again, really really bad. I cannot stress how bad it is. There's no point in having an anonymous form if people aren't aware of it. At my work, in every single break room we have a poster about whistle-blowing, anonymous form how to compile and send them (you can even send them trough standard mail, so you really cannot be traced) with e-mails or IPs. We also are reminded of this at every re-certification course which takes place once every years (state mandated). So "a lot" of the LMG employee that didn't know show how deep it is the lack of training and information about thins kind of stuff is.

Finally, James saying this:

Quote

You gonna dance on that table, or just stand on it?

This shows how Linus' words for some people were just hot air and nothing more. Now, this shows exactly why this sort of meetings should't be done by a manager and why having a course on SH done by an HR firm is extremely important. Linus doesn't even acknowledge the joke, even if the whole meeting was done to avoid this kind of stuff and this means that the meeting was just an exercise in futility. A bit like "I have to do this because I'm obliged to do so, let's make it as quick and painless as possible so we can all go back to our work. I don't care if you get the message or not, I just want to cover my bottom in case anything happens."

Do I exclusively blame James for that unfortunate joke? No. If nobody says anything, except for the most bland and short meeting here and there, then it's normal for people to think that this kind of behavior is totally acceptable. If he always made those jokes and nobody said anything to him, then of course he thinks it's totally ok to do them. Again, this is a prime example of why HR should do the main training, courses and meetings about this stuff and not managers. 

 

So, all this wall of text to say what? That, regardless of Madison accusation, from what we've seen so far, there is a very real possibility that if something like this happened the way it could have been handled was really as bad as Madison says it was. And that's really really bad for a company of over 120 employee and valued at over 100 million $. 

 

[joaopt]

this company has such deep issues i wonder if there is some kind of salvation. But this should be the final nail in their coffin. Making someone go to a point as to hurt herself is sick, knowing and doing nothing about it, joking, dismissing it, running her out of the company, letting the fans harasser her. Linus is a sick human being

 

 

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

18 hours ago, HesCalledTheStig said:

Exactly!  The toxicity of social media just ensures that everyone is going to jump to conclusions before knowing any truths or details. For all we know this is already being handled and there is a reason LMG isn’t responding to any of this.  

I think we got upwards of 200 pages of proof of that behaviour at this point.

 

18 hours ago, ginsardi said:

I understand that, but having lost people to suicide, and knowing plenty who have attempted, this is arguably the worst possible thing that can be happening right now. Particularly, when she starts reading comments from people that don't believe her. The thought of "I need to do something for them to believe me" will come and it will continue to escalate. This is not a small deal, no matter how true or untrue. It's a serious claim and needs to be handled by professionals. Not by social media, not by the community, not in public. There are all sorts of resources that were built for exactly this, and that's where this issue needs to be handled.  

I'd go a bit further than that, I think going public with accusations of this nature is never the best of ideas because it often impedes actual handling of the situation. Having seen actual stalking in the workplace get swiped under the rug from up close, I can tell you that public outrage did not help. It only caused the administrative and managerial levels to close ranks and present a unified response, if the victim in question hadn't gone for that approach, she'd probably have been able to pick away at the perpetrator's defences.

 

Hence why these days my main recommendation if I ever see it happening again would be to talk to a mental health professional and then get legal advice. The former for obvious reasons, but the latter is two-fold: you want to follow the correct procedure, and if you get a lawyer or other legal professional involved they generally know where to push to get someone external (e.g., police) to actually take it serious. This also avoids all the public backlash, avoids the legal risk of damages if your case is thrown out, and makes sure the entire situation can be handled with a bit more poise.

[starsmine]

12 minutes ago, Vexenar said:

We can discuss semantics but with the friendly atmosphere between higher management, Yvonne and Linus there is no way he was not aware to the extent of the issues raised. Especially when you take into account that he is a controlling narcissist with an ego complex that takes any bad criticism raised against his company personally.

There is no /real/ HR department to speak of, at least for the people working at LMG. It's mostly there to cover their own asses. 

Lets not make up shit about the professionalism of Yvonne and the HR department at the time (or lack thereof) or make up shit about the personality complexes linus may or may not have. You dont need to make up shit. The story is bad enough without making up shit. 

HR may have dropped the ball, but it is not ethical for her to be sharing private HR details with even the CEO depending on what was said, when and how. 

Yes, there are plenty of ways Linus did not know the full extent, and depending on exactly what was told to Yvonne, plenty of ways she was not fully aware of the extent either (possible chilling effects due to a perceived conflict of interest perhaps?). 

There being procedural errors does not mean people are lying. People could have misunderstood something at the time as well. Life is... complex. Interpersonal relationships...are complex, and all that being mixed with professional relationships... makes shit complex. 

Beliving Madison and all her accusations does not mean, making shit up about the accused company. 

[joaopt]

2 minutes ago, joaopt said:

this company has such deep issues i wonder if there is some kind of salvation. But this should be the final nail in their coffin. Making someone go to a point as to hurt herself is sick, knowing and doing nothing about it, joking, dismissing it, running her out of the company, letting the fans harasser her. Linus is a sick human being

 

 

 

i hope she gets her time in court and closure, make them all pay

[rickyc12s]

15 minutes ago, avg123 said:

very smart of them to allow discussion on their forum so most of it remains on their platform

Most of it lol? This is a drop in the bucket compared to Reddit

[Majestic12]

17 minutes ago, Viviem said:

multiple current and former employees have liked her posts, some of them even directly corroborating them, just because you can not understand why someone would be driven to take an extreme action to get judgement-free time off from an overly demanding workplace does not mean there is any reason to doubt the validity of her claims. 

They didn't corroborate - they said "they heard similar things" or something along those lines. Since they had an HR meeting after she left, that's not unsurprising. Also, she was there for quite a while and likely made friends who were sad to see her go. Cliques are a thing in every company after all.

 

Also while while I'm sure at least part of what she said actually happened, her testimony is very vague and we need to take into account that her testimony is coloured by her experience in a stressed environment. The remark about her brother is a great example - she chose to see what Linus said in a negative light and if you make a habit out of this on the work floor, you do not make many friends.

[Fnige]

4 minutes ago, SoldiersFortune said:

~~snippy wippy~~

At least from what I can tell. When looking at these kinds of situations, people tend to exclusively put themselves in the victim's shoes and thats basically it. They dont include the risks involved, emotions, money/resources required, etc. Just their current selves. 

 

Of which makes people say things that with a tiny bit more thought, people would very likely just not say since they've answered their own question.

 

I feel like the reaction to this would've been completely different if people just was able to put themselves in other people's shoes better. There will still be people skeptical of the situation which is fine, though given that iirc multiple LMG employees (current and former) it is pretty likely that there's a bit of truth in here