Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[WillHeard]

4 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

Real journalists reach out for comment regardless of whether or not it impacts the viability of their story, that's journalism and you're putting words in Linus's mouth with the hole lawyer. Comment in the history of the history of LMG not once has he ever ever gotten a lawyer involved that I am aware of. He generally owns up to his mistakes and handles them despite being attacked on all sides

No they don’t, what are you talking about? Journalist will reach out to individuals for comment, like celebrities or politicians. They don’t have any obligation to reach out to organizations and If it’s a big organization and a negative story, they definitely have motivation not to. GN explained this. explicitly

[InvaderMig]

6 minutes ago, IrishDiem said:

If it was a simple rebuttal I could be on board but the sum total of that rant was that his accurate points were lost cause he wanted to be so salty that even Lots wife would be - damn too much salt. 

Translation:  I don't like how he said the things he said, so I'm going to disregard them and keep being a weird parasocial fanboy. 

[Hezkezl]

2 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

Real journalists reach out for comment regardless of whether or not it impacts the viability of their story, that's journalism and you're putting words in Linus's mouth with the whole lawyer Comment. in the history of the history of LMG not once has he ever ever gotten a lawyer involved that I am aware of. He generally owns up to his mistakes and handles them despite being attacked on all sides if there was ever a time where Linus or Taryn should be reaching for the legal option, it's now because this is basically slander because the difference between slander and a newspiece is that a newspiece you reach out for comment with slander you don't

If you go and watch GN's video about Linus's reply, then you'll learn about why GN didn't reach out to Linus first. Like him or not, he's actually practicing "real journalism" here by not contacting Linus for a comment or to let Linus prepare a spin statement in advance.

 

Stop white knighting, lmao. That's not the difference between slander and a "newspiece."

[Cl0udK1ller]

3 minutes ago, notFalkon said:

Was it confirmed anywhere that Linus didn't reach out to Billet labs until after the video? Trying to find sources for things I haven't heard before that I'm reading here.

 

GN reached out to Billet labs asking them when did Linus reach out to them, and they stated after the video.  at some point in the video steve does show a timeline showing when linus a billet labs communicated. 

[Thepyrodex]

Just now, MotherboardsInThePark said:

There's a reason why people want blood. This guy Lienuts is a narcissist whose childish behavior has been tolerated for far too long. It's time for him to wake up to reality.

thanks for proving my point. 

 

you should stop acting like you have a personal relationship or impact on a youtuber lol

[Texbobcat]

Just now, Legitsu said:

A lot of people are missing this sometimes how your report something matters more than why that is part of journalistic integrity and that is a point I think Steve has missed it. Doesn't matter if you're right if you look like a douchebag while reporting on it

Even when linus responded to it he still looked terrible, how would this change at all my linus responding ahead of time. He still would've gaslighted, still would've been condensending. It changes nothing at all.

[WarmEngine]

I enjoy both channels for different reasons and just made my 1st LTTStore order recently by spending $300+ on a mousepad for myself and some stuff my boys wanted as we watch their content together pretty often.  This whole fiasco is extremely disappointing (mainly Linus' response) and makes me question whether I should be supporting such a channel.  I regret buying the merch now.  I know GN is a competitor and they are definitely on guard due to LTT Labs so I'm trying to be impartial as fans of both but GN did bring up some very valid points and concerns.  I feel like GN should have probably gotten a response from Linus like they've given other companies to do before publishing so it can be part of the video but that's the only fault I have with GN here.  The content farm comment I saw somewhere is very obvious.  They're just trying to pump out videos at LTT now and they appear like they've lost the focus of what the channel used to be and that I started watching for.

[Calzz]

5 minutes ago, tmk said:

I feel the same. Started watching Linus when he was in NCIX, I was among first few k subsribers in Linus Tech Tips. I wasn't even that mad about yesterday's video but if Linus lied about having an agreement to repay this cooler, that's bad.

I think there is some misinformation about that LMG did say they will repay it after the fact they just havent yet. The problem was that they wanted it back more than the money you know.

[Junkyard messiah.]

I am 60 years old, My first computer had 1K of ram. My first video game was pong.

Let that sink in for a moment, I have seen a lot of computing history, I actively game and watch content to decide on what to buy and why. Because I build PC's for a lot of friends and family. for YEARS people have been in his comments section calling out errors and were largely ignored. Questioned the ethics of some of his interactions and told to go pound sand by his fanboy followers. 

Steve calls it out and what do we get as a response? We see the true face of LTT. This is it, He misrepresented everything in the timeline around Billet , he outright lied to everyone here as he had ghosted billet and they were getting nothing back from LTT. They (Billet) should have gone public with it. But probably didn't because they knew THIS was the company they were dealing with, and a startup does not need that kind of heat from his fan-base.

He lied.  plain and simple truth. He could have been a man about it and owned it. But as we can see from the response he is defending his company first and the rest of us be damned. 

This is what you look like right now Linus .. do better

[Hezkezl]

Just now, Legitsu said:

A lot of people are missing this sometimes how your report something matters more than why that is part of journalistic integrity and that is a point I think Steve has missed it. Doesn't matter if you're right if you look like a douchebag while reporting on it

Go watch GN's new video, it's only about 10 minutes long for the relevant part. He specifically mentions why he didn't contact Linus personally first, and I think it's a completely valid reason.

[kw10001]

1 minute ago, craigjennings said:

Also, "haven't you seen how much I've improved" is what a child says when bringing home a D after an F on their last report card. Congratulations on the improvement, but so much more to be done here. 

Some s tier takes in your post. Couldnt agree more.

[WyvrenSlayer]

I had just watched the video and I was wondering what your thoughts were on the topics. I personally thought that, yes, LMG has issues they need to fix and they do have some issues in the quality assurance portion of their video, but I don't think that it is an ethics issue that tampers with their ability to cover news topics. I think that the issues that Steve raised were valid, but I think that the delivery made it seem more dire and made LTT seem malicious, when I think it is more clumsiness or rushed work that is the problem.

 

With LTT's relations with other companies that Steve covered, I don't think that they are issues, with Framework its disclosed that Linus is invested, and although it was an issue raised by Steve, Steve stated that he had an issue because it possibly could cloud Linus's judgement, but Steve didn't show any examples of Linus's investment doing so, it seemed more of a potential for concern that Linus addresses at the start of every video on laptops, than an ethical example of Linux accually doing this.

 

With the relation to Noctua, I understand his raising of the partnership that LMG has cooperating with them for the screwdriver, but I don't feel like its an issue, because the cooler performance of the Silent Assassin was shown and not covered up in any way, I dont think its an issue when comparing them, and if anyone had an issue with Noctua, they would just buy a regular screw driver instead of a Noctua edition.

 

With the auctioned off cooler, I completely agree that it was LMG's bad for giving it away, they absolutely should have taken better care of someone else's borrowed review unit, and that even though they compensated them with money, and it was not intentionally done to hurt them and more of a careless handling and miss communication, its still irreparable damage to their R and D team.

 

With Linus's concern about money, I agree that Linus might look as he is more concerned about his bottom line with not wanting to spend more time and money on the review, but he did explain that he didn't recommend the product based on the cost and overall product itself, and not the performance. He also has shown us that he spends more money on the LTT Store and refunding or handling the issues that customers have their, and I honestly dont know the guy personally or well enough for a conclusion to be made.

 

LMG's Short Circuit coverage of the mouse is bad, and their response was inadequate for what it was, and had damaged the reputation of the mouse without due course to rectify it, as if I was a viewer looking for a mouse, I woudnt have thought to look at the comment section for them to fix their major and frankly damaging review of the mouse.

 

I hope that LMG fixes their issues with production, although many of these issues are not great for LMG's coverage of products, these issues to me don't seem to be dire ethical concerns where LTT is intentionally misleading or manipulating consumers, more just dumb mistakes that they are rushing and not allocating appropriate measures to rectify.

 

Whats your thoughts, what do you agree or disagree with me about, or am I just utterly and completely wrong?

I wish you all a great day regardless!

[LinusTechLies]

3 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

Real journalists reach out for comment regardless of whether or not it impacts the viability of their story, that's journalism and you're putting words in Linus's mouth with the whole lawyer Comment. in the history of the history of LMG not once has he ever ever gotten a lawyer involved that I am aware of. He generally owns up to his mistakes and handles them despite being attacked on all sides if there was ever a time where Linus or Taryn should be reaching for the legal option, it's now because this is basically slander because the difference between slander and a newspiece is that a newspiece you reach out for comment with slander you don't

Man you are just a fucken riot imagine trying to sue someone for slander because they pointed out how you stole and sold someone else's property. And how you are basically damaging major brands with your incorrect reporting and testing.

 

Good luck making that stick in court bucko

[Nachmanowicz]

1 minute ago, Legitsu said:

A lot of people are missing this: sometimes how your report something matters more than to the why. that is part of journalistic integrity and that is a point I think Steve has missed it. Doesn't matter if you're right if you look like a douchebag while reporting on it

So maybe say that in GamerNexus's forum? Cause we are on LTT's, and what matters here over anything is what LTT is doing. Cause what you're doing here is just whataboutism.

[ayysub]

1 minute ago, SignatureSigner said:

That just means he's running a business. Anyone who believes a business is for your benefit is lying to themselves. When it comes down to it a business exists purly to make money.

yes, of course thats the main purpose of a business. however, by true colours, i meant linus doesn't seem to care about integrity, the community/consumers, and being accurate with their findings, like how he says he does. he just cares about making money by churning out as many videos as possible. the way he reacted to the criticism and tried to brush it off is unacceptable 

[VisibleXela]

7 minutes ago, notFalkon said:

Was it confirmed anywhere that Linus didn't reach out to Billet labs until after the video? Trying to find sources for things I haven't heard before that I'm reading here.

GN comments on this at the beginning of this video:

Billet Labs also confirmed separately on r/linustechtips:

 

[harls]

2 minutes ago, AamirA said:

Linus said he had already negotiated with Billet labs payment compensation for the block. GamersNexus later connected Billet labs who said this was not true at all. Linus only contacted them after the video and they hadn't even responded to his offer yet

That is not what Linus said.  Linus said "the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype"  That does not mean that he agreed to a price with Billet Labs.  That could easily be a phone call to Tehran saying we fucked up and we are going to have to pay. 

[m9x3mos]

1 minute ago, bz16_ said:

he responded really poorly out of frustration

I really do think this was it.

I also am not trying to attribute actual malice to anything him or his team have done.

I think there are just a lot of internal problems that they have to overcome and I think they can do it.

But first they need to acknowledge they have a problem and then plan an appropriate path forward to fix it.

I think they do make good and entertaining content and I love their merch including the backpack I bought.

They just need to refocus on that level of quality to their content and not just their merch.

[Vilacom]

4 minutes ago, WillHeard said:

I did, but that’s the point; the fact that you need to bring GN into this conversation, even open with it, it discredits the rest of what you have to say. You are saying you didn’t watch the video and judge it on its contents. You judged it based on who made it and thus brought your opinion on that person into it. 

 

This is in the same vein of exactly why GN did not and should not have reached out to LMG before publishing.

My entire ending paragraph is that the video is largely accurate, and things need to be resolved especially with Billet.  I absolutely judged it on it's contents, and the person making it, and how it was presented.  Those are the things that matter with any informative video, if you don't look carefully at all three then you're just asking to be lied to.

[ClassicCustoms]

2 minutes ago, throwawayManMode said:

Yes, by Billet Labs themselves: 

 

So, what I understood is that the charity event where the Billet prototype was auctioned off ended on July 30th, yet Billet wasn't notified about it until August 10th. They received no response to being reimbursed until after GN's video went up. Did Linus not know about it being auctioned off until the 10th? Also, the 10th was a Thursday. It is possible the weekend played into the lack of a response, but I don't know, this still looks really bad IMO. 

[VisibleXela]

Just now, Nachmanowicz said:

So maybe say that in GamerNexus's forum? Cause we are on LTT's, and what matters here over anything is what LTT is doing. Cause what you're doing here is just whataboutism.

You can safely ignore that person, they're just a troll.

[AamirA]

I can't believe Linus just said on WAN show that it is our job and the job of other creators to call him out if he does anything wrong. Don't fanboy like people do to their favorite twitch streamer. He better not react badly to community pushback

[eece_ret]

1 hour ago, joaopt said:

 

it's 2 guys making a passion project versus a massive corporation with PR people, 120 employees and lawyers. And you're picking on the little guy for not knowing the corporate way of doing things, for f sake what is wrong with you

It sounds to me like your perception of a massive corp "picking on teh little guy" instead of an honest evaluation of my remarks has very much biased your response, but Ill attempt to address your concerns.

History is rife with 2 guys passion project changing the world.  Orville and Wilber Wright, Hewlett and Packard, Jobs and Wozniak, sure I get it, its all very romantic, and sounds amazing.  But please remember, these guys are adults, not poor children being taken advantage of, as such they are wholly responsible for themselves, their actions, their efforts and their IP.  Also understand that a business with 120 staff is NOT a "massive corporation" by any means whatsoever but rather according to Gartner barely a medium in teh small to medium business segment.

"The attribute used most often is number of employees; small businesses are usually defined as organizations with fewer than 100 employees; midsize enterprises are those organizations with 100 to 999 employees"

The second most popular attribute used to define the SMB market is annual revenue: small business is usually defined as organizations with less than $50 million in annual revenue; midsize enterprise is defined as organizations that make more than $50 million, but less than $1 billion in annual revenue."

https://www.gartner.com/en/information-technology/glossary/smbs-small-and-midsize-businesses

 

Please recall the lessons of Xerox and Apple, and what happens when you expose your IP to 3rd parties. These guys sent the equipment to LMG of their own volition and it doesn't take lawyers on retainer to think of these precautions, as a child I was aware of the case of finders v. keepers and the rule "possession is 9/10ths of the law".  Axioms which will hold up sans contract to the contrary, prior the dissemination of the equipment by said 3rd party. 

For example, Im sure they would establish similar ground rules if lending a friend their car "when will you have it back, how will you be using it, how you will take care of me if you wreck it".  Short of that is simply being naive. 

Understand that Im not saying, by any means, that this situation is right, at all.  However with a little forethought they could have protected themselves from this risk.  Its a crappy lesson, but in this case for them, its lessoned learned the hard way.

Another way to think of it, would be if someone robbed my car, but did so cause I left the doors unlocked.  Its not right to rob from a car, but dude, lock your doors. 

 

As far as "picking on them".  Other than a knee jerk biased response on your part, demonstrating ones personal responsibilities is not picking on them, you'll go far in life if you can grapple with this. 

I also point out that LMG should require Terms and Conditions on intake to preclude and protect both parties from these situations.  Is that picking on LMG? 

The proper process IMO would be....

Imagine the "two guys in the garage" who probably are (were) LMG fans send their equipment to LMG for review, sans T's and C's, straight up YOLO, box it stamp it include a letter saying "this is cool, review it!", then they Send it!  In this case, LMG being the greater informed and experienced entity in these types of interactions should steward the less experienced. They should request something along the lines "please fill out this T&C form before we can receive your gear, else will be returned to sender unopened and fully tracked to destination.

 

That said, its IMO a best case, the owner of the IP bears responsibility as they are the ones who discharged it to a third party, again, of their own volition, of sound mind and body etc.  To then attempt to establish these T and C AFTER the review is cart before the horse, crying over spilled milk, bass ackwards. 

 

I am not a lawyer, I dont even play one on TV.  Im simply an adult and stayed at a holiday inn express last night 

 

[ScoggsUK]

3 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

We know its sold and gone because in linus's own statement he is saying he is "paying for it to go away"

 

Meaning he doesnt have it, and is paying Billet the cost of the prototype

Read the thread on it dude not just the last comment and you'll see the context. 

 

I'm not disputing it's been confirmed sold now.

[joaopt]

i fell sorry for the employees, now either Linus doesn't change a thing and the LMG corporation can only circle the drain and they end up unemployed or he does change it, less videos, less money, and they end up unemployed. It's the end of the line for a lot of his employees

 

not sure if they are even aware of this