New PC (7950X3D?)

[frolev]

Budget (including currency): MAX 3000€ (for me less is better but I can go up to that if there is a good reason to)

Country: Belgium

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Game of simulation (factorio, satisfactory, cities skylines, paradox games...) but also a little bit of everything like Valheim, Minecraft, War thunder... Some 3D (but mainly CAD for 3D printing) and also a lot of various stuff like some machine learning (Stable diffusion...), computer simulation, a little bit of video editing...

Other details : current resolution 1080p60hz+1440p144hz (both 16:9), possibly ultrawide in the future. I plan to buy the computer between september and november

 

My ~10 years old PC (i5 4570 + gtx980Ti upgraded from a gtx660)start to really limits me in what I can do, and now I got a salary so I can put more into it. I plan to keep it for a long time(5-10 years), and I think I will probably change neither the CPU not the motherboard, so for me the CPU is where I should put a little bit more compared to the GPU that I will probably upgrade once (I put the 7900xtx, but I think this is overkill for now, and I could take Nvidia if AMD does not improve AI support in the coming month). My understanding is that the 3D vcache is very good for simulation, and simulation games, but not the best for most "productivity" app, and it seems that the 7950X3D is maybe the best there (I am sure that wathever I have, I will be able to push it to its limits sometimes).

I putted DDR5 6400 with 10ns, not sure if I should change that to someting else.

 

Fist draft: https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/Vj6KJM, just to try something but I am not sure of anything and I did not check for the ram clearance with the cooler or the cooler with the case yet.

 

 

 

[tkitch]

The 7800x3d is better at gaming generally, so unless you need more than 8 cores?  It'd be a waste.

 

Most Machine Learning will be done on the GPU.  And if you're playing with AI:  Currently NVidia has the best cards for that, as they have AI Cores for powering those apps. 

[Shimejii]

7950x3D does not really make sense for you. 7950x would be much better, or a 7800x3D. 1080p +1440p 144hz isnt that hard to run on a 7950x alone honestly, or 7800x3D since it should be a bit cheaper.

 

Are you sure that your programs dont benefit from Nvida GPU's, as you stated that AMD is still quite behind in that so it really doesnt make sense to get it if thats what you do.

 

Other then that just get RAM that is on the MOBOS QVL.

[frolev]

10 minutes ago, tkitch said:

The 7800x3d is better at gaming generally, so unless you need more than 8 cores?  It'd be a waste.

 

Most Machine Learning will be done on the GPU.  And if you're playing with AI:  Currently NVidia has the best cards for that, as they have AI Cores for powering those apps. 

 

12 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

7950x3D does not really make sense for you. 7950x would be much better, or a 7800x3D. 1080p +1440p 144hz isnt that hard to run on a 7950x alone honestly, or 7800x3D since it should be a bit cheaper.

 

Are you sure that your programs dont benefit from Nvida GPU's, as you stated that AMD is still quite behind in that so it really doesnt make sense to get it if thats what you do.

 

Other then that just get RAM that is on the MOBOS QVL.

 

 

Yes, for the CPU, it is more that sometimes i would prefer to have the 3DVcache (gaming), and sometimes the higher frequency cores than a true needs for 16 core itself, and that "only" for ~33%.

 

For the GPU I agree, but I was also planning to use it more for gaming than for AI and the AMD ones are cheaper (4070ti close to a 7900XTX...) but I am really unsure for now

 

I will check the MOBOS QVL thanks

[Agall]

25 minutes ago, frolev said:

Budget (including currency): MAX 3000€ (for me less is better but I can go up to that if there is a good reason to)

Country: Belgium

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Game of simulation (factorio, satisfactory, cities skylines, paradox games...) but also a little bit of everything like Valheim, Minecraft, War thunder... Some 3D (but mainly CAD for 3D printing) and also a lot of various stuff like some machine learning (Stable diffusion...), computer simulation, a little bit of video editing...

Other details : current resolution 1080p60hz+1440p144hz (both 16:9), possibly ultrawide in the future. I plan to buy the computer between september and november

 

My ~10 years old PC (i5 4570 + gtx980Ti upgraded from a gtx660)start to really limits me in what I can do, and now I got a salary so I can put more into it. I plan to keep it for a long time(5-10 years), and I think I will probably change neither the CPU not the motherboard, so for me the CPU is where I should put a little bit more compared to the GPU that I will probably upgrade once (I put the 7900xtx, but I think this is overkill for now, and I could take Nvidia if AMD does not improve AI support in the coming month). My understanding is that the 3D vcache is very good for simulation, and simulation games, but not the best for most "productivity" app, and it seems that the 7950X3D is maybe the best there (I am sure that wathever I have, I will be able to push it to its limits sometimes).

I putted DDR5 6400 with 10ns, not sure if I should change that to someting else.

 

Fist draft: https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/Vj6KJM, just to try something but I am not sure of anything and I did not check for the ram clearance with the cooler or the cooler with the case yet.

 

 

 

7950x3D is the best of both worlds if you configure it properly. If you don't actually need the extra 8 cores though, you're better off with the 7800x3D for gaming.

 

Either way with Ryzen 7000x3D, I'd recommend a 6000MHz kit, 36-36-36-76 in my opinion. faster kits and/or lower timings can cause stability issues with Ryzen 7000 in general, where 7000x3D doesn't care too much for faster RAM than 6000MHz.

 

 

[Why_Me]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i7-13700 2.1 GHz 16-Core Processor  (€434.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
CPU Cooler: *Deepcool AG620 67.88 CFM CPU Cooler  (€58.85 @ Megekko) 
Motherboard: *MSI B760 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  (€169.00 @ Megekko) 
Memory: *Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory  (€228.85 @ Megekko) 
Storage: *Samsung 980 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€129.00 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Video Card: *MSI VENTUS 3X OC GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Video Card  (€1304.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
Case: *Lian Li LANCOOL 216 ATX Mid Tower Case  (€103.85 @ Megekko) 
Power Supply: *MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€139.00 @ Paradigit) 
Total: €2568.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-24 21:17 CEST+0200

 

A better look at those components.

 

https://lian-li.com/product/lancool-216/  

 

https://www.msi.com/Power-Supply/MPG-A850G-PCIE5  

 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B760-GAMING-PLUS-WIFI  

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/230490/intel-core-i713700-processor-30m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz/specifications.html  

 

https://www.deepcool.com/products/Cooling/cpuaircoolers/GAMMAXX-AG620-Dual-Tower-CPU-Cooler-1700-AM5/2022/15900.shtml  

 

https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/GeForce-RTX-4080-16GB-VENTUS-3X-OC  

[TVwazhere]

1 hour ago, frolev said:

Budget (including currency): MAX 3000€ (for me less is better but I can go up to that if there is a good reason to)

Country: Belgium

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Some 3D (but mainly CAD for 3D printing) and also a lot of various stuff like some machine learning (Stable diffusion...), computer simulation, a little bit of video editing...

 

My understanding is that the 3D vcache is very good for simulation, and simulation games, but not the best for most "productivity" app, and it seems that the 7950X3D is maybe the best there (I am sure that wathever I have, I will be able to push it to its limits sometimes).

1 hour ago, Shimejii said:

Are you sure that your programs dont benefit from Nvida GPU's, as you stated that AMD is still quite behind in that so it really doesnt make sense to get it if thats what you do.

It depends on the programs in question. 

 

For example, in video editing, Adobe Premiere Pro is now able to take advantage of CUDA cores for post rendering, as well as Cuda (vs opencl) for GPU acceleration  (decidedly much less important).

 

In many 3D parasolid like softwares, CPU Single Core Speed performance is most important, and GPU only provides accelerated hardware support. Modelers like Blender and Maya can leverage GPU's better, with Blender's performacne being VERY based on GPU power compared to the later. 

 

If you're only using slicer software for 3D printing (and no actual CAD work) then GPU performance is not important.

[frolev]

9 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

It depends on the programs in question. 

 

For example, in video editing, Adobe Premiere Pro is now able to take advantage of CUDA cores for post rendering, as well as Cuda (vs opencl) for GPU acceleration  (decidedly much less important).

 

In many 3D parasolid like softwares, CPU Single Core Speed performance is most important, and GPU only provides accelerated hardware support. Modelers like Blender and Maya can leverage GPU's better, with Blender's performacne being VERY based on GPU power compared to the later. 

 

If you're only using slicer software for 3D printing (and no actual CAD work) then GPU performance is not important.

Yeah, I really think of downgrading the GPU cause I will probably not use it fully for some times, and then upgrade later.

 

The single core performance is also what make me prefer the 7950X3D over the 7800X3D

 

Thank you

[igormp]

4 hours ago, tkitch said:

as they have AI Cores for powering those apps. 

AMD's 7000 series also has those, the problem is their subpar software support.

4 hours ago, frolev said:

For the GPU I agree, but I was also planning to use it more for gaming than for AI and the AMD ones are cheaper (4070ti close to a 7900XTX...) but I am really unsure for now

If all you're planning to do is running stable diffusion, then AMD kinda works, but don't plan on doing anything on your own.

[SorryBella]

7 hours ago, frolev said:

Country: Belgium

Would you be fine going with German or Netherlands market for longer shipping time? That would be very beneficial in this high of a budget. But if you want it to be local, here.

 

6 hours ago, Why_Me said:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i7-13700 2.1 GHz 16-Core Processor  (€434.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
CPU Cooler: *Deepcool AG620 67.88 CFM CPU Cooler  (€58.85 @ Megekko) 
Motherboard: *MSI B760 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  (€169.00 @ Megekko) 
Memory: *Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory  (€228.85 @ Megekko) 
Storage: *Samsung 980 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€129.00 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Video Card: *MSI VENTUS 3X OC GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Video Card  (€1304.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
Case: *Lian Li LANCOOL 216 ATX Mid Tower Case  (€103.85 @ Megekko) 
Power Supply: *MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€139.00 @ Paradigit) 
Total: €2568.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-24 21:17 CEST+0200

Id mirror this build if not for the fact that War Thunder and Minecraft is kinda cache strained. This is the 7800X3D version if your productivity workload is mostly casual and you want more gaming. When you're looking around for benchmarks, 7700X is the equivalent in productivity apps that doesnt use the X3D cache, so basically almost all of it.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor  (€464.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
CPU Cooler: Deepcool AG620 67.88 CFM CPU Cooler  (€58.85 @ Megekko) 
Motherboard: MSI B650 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard  (€202.95 @ Megekko) 
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory  (€123.85 @ Megekko) 
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€90.49 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Video Card: Zotac GAMING Trinity OC GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Video Card  (€1322.39 @ Azerty) 
Case: Fractal Design Pop Air ATX Mid Tower Case  (€95.80 @ Azerty) 
Power Supply: Corsair RM850e (2023) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€126.15 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Total: €2485.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-25 04:17 CEST+0200

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700 2.1 GHz 16-Core Processor  (€434.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
CPU Cooler: Deepcool AG620 67.88 CFM CPU Cooler  (€58.85 @ Megekko) 
Motherboard: MSI B760 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  (€169.00 @ Megekko) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory  (€120.89 @ Alternate Belgium) 
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€90.49 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Video Card: Zotac GAMING Trinity OC GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Video Card  (€1322.39 @ Azerty) 
Case: Fractal Design Pop Air ATX Mid Tower Case  (€95.80 @ Azerty) 
Power Supply: Corsair RM850e (2023) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€126.15 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Total: €2418.56
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-25 04:18 CEST+0200

[frolev]

8 hours ago, SorryBella said:

Would you be fine going with German or Netherlands market for longer shipping time? That would be very beneficial in this high of a budget. But if you want it to be local, here.

 

Id mirror this build if not for the fact that War Thunder and Minecraft is kinda cache strained. This is the 7800X3D version if your productivity workload is mostly casual and you want more gaming. When you're looking around for benchmarks, 7700X is the equivalent in productivity apps that doesnt use the X3D cache, so basically almost all of it.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor  (€464.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
CPU Cooler: Deepcool AG620 67.88 CFM CPU Cooler  (€58.85 @ Megekko) 
Motherboard: MSI B650 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard  (€202.95 @ Megekko) 
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory  (€123.85 @ Megekko) 
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€90.49 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Video Card: Zotac GAMING Trinity OC GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Video Card  (€1322.39 @ Azerty) 
Case: Fractal Design Pop Air ATX Mid Tower Case  (€95.80 @ Azerty) 
Power Supply: Corsair RM850e (2023) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€126.15 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Total: €2485.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-25 04:17 CEST+0200

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700 2.1 GHz 16-Core Processor  (€434.99 @ Alternate Belgium) 
CPU Cooler: Deepcool AG620 67.88 CFM CPU Cooler  (€58.85 @ Megekko) 
Motherboard: MSI B760 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  (€169.00 @ Megekko) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory  (€120.89 @ Alternate Belgium) 
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€90.49 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Video Card: Zotac GAMING Trinity OC GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Video Card  (€1322.39 @ Azerty) 
Case: Fractal Design Pop Air ATX Mid Tower Case  (€95.80 @ Azerty) 
Power Supply: Corsair RM850e (2023) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€126.15 @ Amazon Belgium) 
Total: €2418.56
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-25 04:18 CEST+0200

Thanks for the feedback, I will look into the other countries market when I will buy my component.

 

I think after all these discussion, I still feel more toward a 7950x3d because I will do mostly gaming but with game that are not that heavy GPU side, and like that I can keep the platform for years, with my highest load mainly on the CPU (simulation...). 

 

I think I will also put a 7900xt at most (or rtx 4070 still unsure there) and upgrade it when needed 

[SorryBella]

38 minutes ago, frolev said:

with my highest load mainly on the CPU (simulation...). 

Ive spent 300 hours on War Thunder and like 500+ hours actively managing a Minecraft server. Trust me, those extra 8 "Frequency" core WILL go to waste. Oh and AMD software scheduler, not only being very weak compared to Intel hardware scheduler solution in Thread Director, usually will allocate anything that is recognized as games into the X3D core.

[frolev]

1 hour ago, SorryBella said:

Ive spent 300 hours on War Thunder and like 500+ hours actively managing a Minecraft server. Trust me, those extra 8 "Frequency" core WILL go to waste. Oh and AMD software scheduler, not only being very weak compared to Intel hardware scheduler solution in Thread Director, usually will allocate anything that is recognized as games into the X3D core.

Ok, the way I have said it is a bit confusing, I will play some simulation game, but I will also do "numerical simulation" from time to time like fluid and other stuff, and I suppose for that the extra frequency will be usefull, and even the 16 core in some case. I know that wathever the CPU I will have, I will manage to make it at 100% usage from time to time, but it is not like I will do that often.

 

Do you feel like the scheduler do a bad job? I know that it is far from perfect, but does it really makes thing worse to the point to really warn against 7950x3d and 7900x3d for my use case (mostly gaming in WT, minecraft, cities skyline, ksp... and from time to time more heavy toward CPU stuff)?

[SorryBella]

39 minutes ago, frolev said:

Ok, the way I have said it is a bit confusing, I will play some simulation game, but I will also do "numerical simulation" from time to time like fluid and other stuff, and I suppose for that the extra frequency will be usefull, and even the 16 core in some case. I know that wathever the CPU I will have, I will manage to make it at 100% usage from time to time, but it is not like I will do that often.

 

Do you feel like the scheduler do a bad job? I know that it is far from perfect, but does it really makes thing worse to the point to really warn against 7950x3d and 7900x3d for my use case (mostly gaming in WT, minecraft, cities skyline, ksp... and from time to time more heavy toward CPU stuff)?

7800X3D doesnt need the scheduler because they physically only have 1 core complex instead of 2. Everything goes to the X3D core with no software intervention needed.

 

If you are looking for number crunches then take the non X3D version with 7900X or 7950X. But by then the cost of the CPU doesnt match the massive advantage of Thread Director being able to cut up a bunch of background services away from the P-Cores, and Raptor Lake very very small advantage in IPC (which sadly isnt paired with the massive cache like AMD), so 13700 would be the one to eye on in cases where the application doesnt scale beyond 16-20 threads.

[frolev]

8 minutes ago, SorryBella said:

7800X3D doesnt need the scheduler because they physically only have 1 core complex instead of 2. Everything goes to the X3D core with no software intervention needed.

 

If you are looking for number crunches then take the non X3D version with 7900X or 7950X. But by then the cost of the CPU doesnt match the massive advantage of Thread Director being able to cut up a bunch of background services away from the P-Cores, and Raptor Lake very very small advantage in IPC (which sadly isnt paired with the massive cache like AMD), so 13700 would be the one to eye on in cases where the application doesnt scale beyond 16-20 threads.

Tbh I do not understand the use case of the 7950x3d then, everyone seems to say that there are CPU better than this one for any situation. I was seeing it as "I want to game a lot (3d vcache) but I will sometimes want to do some other application heavy on the CPU (frequency core)", which I think is my use case + the high efficiency compared to intel (here the electricity is expensive). 

 

[igormp]

1 minute ago, frolev said:

"I want to game a lot (3d vcache) but I will sometimes want to do some other application heavy on the CPU (frequency core)"

Yeah, that's the perfect use case for it. If you're really going to make use of 16c/32t, but still want to game the 7950x3d is the perfect option IMO.

 

If we were talking solely about games, then the 7800x3d takes the crown, and for productivity the 7950x is usually better since all of its cores can clock higher.