Explain like i'm 5 what a bunch of chilren on reddit think they'll achieve with this group tantrum?

[Sarra]

Something that isn't being stated here, that is pertinent:

 

The API price increase is not reasonable. Louis Rossmann actually stated it best, watch his videos about it if you actually want to understand what's going on, as opposed to just shilling for reddit.

[igormp]

4 hours ago, tdkid said:

move the goalposts? how about reading first?

 

OP: What's this group tantrum about on reddit? do they think umm...(googles): steve haffman will care that a some forums set their thing to private?

 

me: its called GenZ and unfortunately, that is just how they are because spanking was too cruel a punishment when time-outs in the corner work so well.

 

starmine: Yes. genZ, popularly known as the generation who invented strikes, and the generation who moderates reddit. 

I get it, you weren't trying to move goalposts, but rather must have some comprehension difficulties. 

 

After they pointed out with irony that this has nothing to do with gen z, you got defensive and started complaining about stuff not related at all to the thread.

[MistaHiggins]

On 6/13/2023 at 1:16 AM, tdkid said:

then quit yelling at me. mmmmmmmmoooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, they are being mean to me, make them stop.

Finally created an account here after leaving my 10+ year reddit account to rot due to their API changes.

 

This thread has been an exceptionally poor first impression of the community that exists here and the tone of conversation between users.

 

 

[dcgreen2k]

41 minutes ago, MistaHiggins said:

Finally created an account here after leaving my 10+ year reddit account to rot due to their API changes.

 

This thread has been an exceptionally poor first impression of the community that exists here and the tone of conversation between users.

 

 

What you're seeing here is an argument between well-meaning forum members and a few very childish members. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it won't turn out well. This community is pretty good aside from that.

[redditrefugee1]

I totally understand someone disagreeing with protests, it's always the same issues that crop up between those protesting, those directly affected by the protests, and bystanders who don't understand or are generally annoyed. 

 

The truth is Reddit is run on volunteer/free labor. It's basically 90% of how their site works. Those people object to how Reddit's management is treating it's users and third party developers. 

 

Reddit is run by people, and when you try to take what people have collectively made, and co-opt it as entirely your own and make money off of it, then you create animosity and resentment. 

 

Imagine for a moment that Linus Tech tomorrow started insulting and lying about the people who watch his youtube page, and ignored the customers and consumers that helped him build a following? 

 

The CEO of reddit has lost touch with the concerns of the users and mods that make his site work, and he's paying the price for it. 

 

Imagine if tomorrow twitter decided to charge everyone $20 dollars per session to log in and see any tweets. Most people would be upset and Twitter would lose many many millions of people. They could insist that they are making changes that 'have to be made' in order to 'be profitable', but obviously, that model would destroy twitters customer and user base.

 

Reddit has essentially done both of those things to it's user base, changing the basic rules unfairly and without regard to the users that make their site work. It's the pursuit of profit above all other concerns, and then pretending like it's making the site better, or that its not just about getting the CEO another yacht. 

 

Lets take it out of tech. Imagine that when you get home your door has a new lock and the company you rent from has decided to increase your rent by 100X and charge you a daily fee to open your door. Then the owner of the building pulls up in his large limousine, dressed in a 10K suit, and insists that he's doing this for the good of the building. He also tells you that the building is going to be partially sold to developers soon, and that every wall and floor will be covered with ads to be 'profitable'. When you try to tell him you can't pay, he laughs and says, too bad, then hops in his car and leaves. You didn't have a chance to even argue/debate it, the rules just changed, and now everyone in your community is upset and doesn't want it to happen to them. If the rules changed on you what's to stop it changing on them? What if they are next?

 

No one objects to companies making money or a lot of money, but to do so without any concern or respect to the people that made them successful is the final straw.

 

That's what this is. It's a community saying no mas. We are leaving, and taking our creativity, our comments, our content, our digital property elsewhere. It was a protest. It has now turned into the end of an era.

[redditrefugee1]

Today it's the 3rd party api's but tomorrow? Perhaps Reddit starts a subscription fee for regular users. Or unblockable ad support? Maybe to post a comment will cost you 50 cents... maybe a dollar? What if they charge to stream a video? Maybe they add AI bots that try to sell you things with no way to opt out? The bottom line is Reddit's respect for it's users has been completely forgotten in it's haste to make money with a public offering. The CEO has seen the other tech bros like Musk and Thiel throwing their weight around, and he wants in to that club.   

 

At some point we just move on, and stop putting up with it, and find a new home. 

[Wohao_Gaster_NotFromLTT]

On 6/13/2023 at 1:59 AM, igormp said:

Much like any strike or protest, it does make it hard for some other users. If it didn't cause any impact, it wouldn't mean much

When every subreddit I use is closed and I use an adblocker anyway so they aren't profiting from me anyway, it inconveniences the user more than it causes an impact for big reddit(even when most people aren't blocking ads)

[Holmes108]

6 minutes ago, Wohao_Gaster_NotFromLTT said:

When every subreddit I use is closed and I use an adblocker anyway so they aren't profiting from me anyway, it inconveniences the user more than it causes an impact for big reddit(even when most people aren't blocking ads)

 

This was my only point in the one post I added. People can feel how they want about a site/product, complain, vote with their 'wallet' etc etc.. I'm all about that. I just didn't feel like this one would have any meaningful impact, in particular because there was (generally) a set timeframe. I felt it was hurting the users far more than the company.

 

I also don't feel the moderators have any real power. I mean right now they can shut down a subreddit. But Reddit could always just change the moderation policies at any time, and reopen subs if they really wanted to.

 

On top of all of that, despite the vocal minority, I think the vast majority of Reddit's user base just uses the default app/browser page, and doesn't give a 2nd thought to 3rd party API access. Not saying that access isn't useful or important, but again, the vast majority of people are unaware and/or don't care.

[redditrefugee1]

22 minutes ago, Wohao_Gaster_NotFromLTT said:

When every subreddit I use is closed and I use an adblocker anyway so they aren't profiting from me anyway, it inconveniences the user more than it causes an impact for big reddit(even when most people aren't blocking ads)

Thing is, most people don't use ad blockers. Reddit's main revenue is from ads and their pay for subscription model. Even a 10% or 5% drop in that revenue is huge to it's potential investors, and many of these communities have millions of users who now will not be providing content, links, feedback, resources, seeing campaigns etc. 

 

The impact is a big one. I've already noticed a huge uptick in other sites with socmedia functions, and forums. Forums existed before Reddit, and it's entirely possible we will see a second coming of the community forum, and maybe an aggregator of those forums will rise up and be the next reddit.

 

Again, this isn't amazon, where people keep buying even if they don't like Beezos or Amazons' policies. Reddit is a community driven place, collective free labor and work is what built them. It's the dumbest move to ignore or disrespect that community. You might as well shut it down if you don't respect the people who make it work. 

 

We are in a moment of inflection in tech, people see the rise of AI and the end of many of the freedoms the internet initially offered are being gobbled up by wall street types and tech bros who think information is the next oil, regardless of who made it, cultivated it, and keeps it moderated and accessible. They talk about freespeech and their love for it, but then ban critics and lie about skeptics, fire anyone with a different pov, and use money to silence and threaten rivals and competitors. Reddit thought it was an unstoppable juggernaut, and CEO thought he was about to join Bill Gates and Musk... turns out that he majorly miscalculated.

[Skipple]

10 minutes ago, Holmes108 said:

I think the vast majority of Reddit's user base just uses the default app/browser page, and doesn't give a 2nd thought to 3rd party API access. Not saying that access isn't useful or important, but again, the vast majority of people are unaware and/or don't care.

I think this is true, but there is a difference between overall users and what they use, and power-users and what they use. Social media typically follows the 90, 9, 1 rule. 

 

Quote

• 90% of users are lurkers (i.e., read or observe, but don't contribute).
• 9% of users contribute from time to time, but other priorities dominate their time.
• 1% of users participate a lot and account for most contributions: it can seem as if they don't have lives because they often post just minutes after whatever event they're commenting on occurs.
   
• 90% of posting are from 1% of users
• 10% of posting are from 9% of users
• No posting from 90% of users.

It's that 1% of the user base that's upset right now. And it's the 1% that make Reddit work the way it does. 

[roboninja73]

Holy shit, half the comments here are so asinine it's like I never left Reddit.

 

I think we need to explain it lower than 5. 

[Holmes108]

3 minutes ago, roboninja73 said:

Holy shit, half the comments here are so asinine it's like I never left Reddit.

 

I think we need to explain it lower than 5. 

 

Your contribution is certainly Reddit-esque.

[Rex Hite]

If Reddit is a publicly traded corporation then its first duty is to the shareholders and that means major decisions will be based on how the finances appear in reports.  Since its product is more or less made from the unpaid labour of its active users then I suppose Reddit considers the continued supply of labour to be assured. 

Does Reddit look on Twitter's example with envy or as a warning? Do Reddit's owners even care?

If Reddit is being forced by the shareholders, its board, or by the info-market in general to establish its own value among competitors then maybe undervaluing itself by is not a good strategy. If Reddit's market is really all about accumulating information to train AI then maybe the writing is on the wall and human generated content will be less needed in that market.

In the info-market, maybe the race is on to be the last man standing.

[Wohao_Gaster_NotFromLTT]

1 hour ago, Holmes108 said:

On top of all of that, despite the vocal minority, I think the vast majority of Reddit's user base just uses the default app/browser page, and doesn't give a 2nd thought to 3rd party API access. Not saying that access isn't useful or important, but again, the vast majority of people are unaware and/or don't care.

I didn't know why r/Portal was closed originally, had to google it

[igormp]

1 hour ago, Rex Hite said:

If Reddit is a publicly traded corporation then its first duty is to the shareholders and that means major decisions will be based on how the finances appear in reports.

It is not, they're working on improving their financial numbers so they can go on an IPO.

[ToboRobot]

This is a reasonable take. 

 

On 6/13/2023 at 9:34 AM, Sarra said:

Looks like a lot of the people in this thread want to either use the default reddit app, or spend $90 on a functional, usable, third party app.

 

I'm not throwing a tantrum, I simply quit using it. I'm not going back until the API price change is reversed; if it isn't, I'm never going back.

 

This is like NVidia. They did stuff I don't agree with, and I have stopped purchasing their crap. I've picked up two non NVidia cards, with a third planned eventually. Tantrum? No.

 

If you cannot see the problems with reddit, then just keep using it. Don't complain when you are forced to use trash tier software, or have to pay out your ass for something functional that's third party, though. Nobody wants to hear it, and the fact that you don't care about what the problem is isn't our problem, either

[ToboRobot]

On 6/13/2023 at 8:47 AM, Nereosis said:

ITT: Some of the most stupid takes I have ever seen in my entire life.

Reddit is moderated by volunteers. Those volunteers aren't happy with the changes that Reddit are making. What do you expect them to do? Just get over it? They are getting over it by removing themselves from Reddit which ultimately leads to subreddits being closed as they don't work without moderation.

I feel like the haters in this thread actually don't know how moderation works. Reddit is dead.

Oh no, will those volunteers have to go get a new job when they stop being unpaid moderators for a big company that exploits their labour for profit?

Moderators don't make reddit what it is, it's the content CREATORS not moderators who make reddit great. 

You think people might not understand how moderation works (I wish the old slashdot system was still around at scale) but I don't know if some people understand how social media and business works.

[Skipple]

12 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Moderators don't make reddit what it is, it's the content CREATORS not moderators who make reddit great. 

These two undergroups on Reddit are not mutually exclusive. I moderate a few, smaller subreddits, but actively participate in many subreddits across the site. 

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, Skipple said:

These two undergroups on Reddit are not mutually exclusive. I moderate a few, smaller subreddits, but actively participate in many subreddits across the site. 

Active participation isn't content creation.  Nor did I say that moderators cannot be content creators. 

This sort of low effort interjection is exactly the sort of quality content that makes me not miss the loss of Reddit, and coming from a moderator, that makes a lot of sense to me.

[redditrefugee1]

Here is a nice rundown for who people who legitimately want to know why so many people have jumped on board with this protest, and aren't just wanting to call people whiners and make this a culture war issue. It's an interview with the 3rd party developer of the Apollo app. 

 

 

In it's most simple terms, Reddit built it's success and name recognition from it's users, moderators and yes third party applications. Now that it wants to become a publicly traded company they are looking for revenue streams and they are starting by forcing out 3rd party apps, and viewing them as nuisances because the number crunchers want an entirely unrealistic return on the massive amounts of data on Reddit servers. 

 

Mods' keep the content from spiraling into spam, illegal content, and chaos. 

Users add information, build participation, increase engagement, and simply make reddit function through add revenue and subscriptions. 

3rd party apps help to drive page views, help share and spread content, and streamline reddit usage for end users. 

 

Those are three parts of the reddit structure. The admin and ownership are the last and most important element. But they are completely dependent on the first two to keep the site running and profitable. 

 

It's someone with an old model of how the world should work applying it to a modern mega site. Drive out anyone from the eco system that isn't making you enough money according to an arbitrary goal... then make your app more expensive and add driven so you can charge subscription fees, in the meantime hope none of the free workers who make your site work notice, and that users don't really care about the third party developers.

 

There are people who think that is a good thing, who really don't care who gets hurt as long as they get what they want. If that's you, that's your choice. Other people don't think that way. Those are the people protesting and leaving reddit. It's still a free country, you can think about those people whatever you want. Just know that someday you might be in their position, feeling that something you're passionate about is being ruined, destroyed, and stripped for parts so that a far off owner can make an extra 2%. When that day comes, perhaps you might understand why mods and redditors are doing what they are doing. So today they are spoiled soyboy woke children... tomorrow it might be you. Is it taking a club to the head? No. But are they making a sacrifice? Yes. Just as you deciding not to buy and play a new game, or boycotting a brand of headphones because of poor products.

 

I often wonder how many people saw folks protesting for a 5 day work week, or time off, or some basic thing we take for granted now and thought... "what are they complaining about? bunch of woke whiners!" What we fight for or sacrifice today, and what we won't fight for and sacrifice have an affect on the future and what is acceptable. Today it's 3rd party developers. Tomorrow it's charging you for just logging in, or forcing you to give up even more privacy so they can sell it to data miners. It's all on the table now, and if people do nothing eventually it will make an internet that is not only paywalled, but sanitized and monetized to the point of uselessness. 

[Skipple]

3 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

This sort of low effort interjection is exactly the sort of quality content that makes me not miss the loss of Reddit, and coming from a moderator, that makes a lot of sense to me.

I made a clarification. I don't see much difference between participation and content creation. 

 

You can just tell me to go fuck myself next time, if you wish to directly insult me like this. 

[ToboRobot]

11 minutes ago, Skipple said:

I made a clarification. I don't see much difference between participation and content creation. 

 

 

Have you ever searched google for a reddit threat where someone commented LOL, or gave a really awesome upvote?

Or do people search for a post or comment that someone took the time to write out the solution to a technical problem, or they wrote about some local history, or they posted photos of how to fix an engine?

You get ribbons for participation, but content creation is a well paid job.  IT IS NOT THE SAME.

 

[redditrefugee1]

7 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Have you ever searched google for a reddit threat where someone commented LOL, or gave a really awesome upvote?

Or do people search for a post or comment that someone took the time to write out the solution to a technical problem, or they wrote about some local history, or they posted photos of how to fix an engine?

You get ribbons for participation, but content creation is a well paid job.  IT IS NOT THE SAME.

 

If there is no content moderation, there is no content. 

 

I think you aren't putting the dots together. 

 

They are both part of the structure that makes reddit work. You really seem to devalue mods, and not understand that without them Reddit wouldn't work. 

 

Your comment that answers a question has to be on a modded page, if not that page could be riddled with illegal content, and stuff that will get the site taken down and it's users investigated or worse. They also stop people from clogging up pages of Reddit with nonsense, spam, and garbage that makes it hard to find what you need. Mods also keep fake/bad advice from being shared, and basically keep people from blowing themselves up.

 

You seem to think that a body works without an immune system, or that a stomach works without a vomit reflex. The point isn't that Mods' make money, it's that they prevent the destruction of the site the content is placed on. No content equals no ads and no ads means no money. Get it?

 

Let me repeat because you seem to be pretty stubborn and don't like to read people's posts...

 

You can hate or not like mods, but without them... there is no content.

 

It's not just reddit. It's any large website. Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. With no moderation they just become useless places for garbage.

[ToboRobot]

Just now, redditrefugee1 said:

If there is no content moderation, there is no content.

Not true at all. 

There can be unmoderated content. 

This is quite possibility the dumbest argument on this topic I have seen, thank you very much for sharing it with the world. 

[redditrefugee1]

11 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Not true at all. 

There can be unmoderated content. 

This is quite possibility the dumbest argument on this topic I have seen, thank you very much for sharing it with the world. 

What use is information if it is wrong or harmful? 

Un-modded content is as good as garbage. That's what separates Reddit from fake websites. People who are passionate and want to be helpful help to keep the content helpful. 

 

You clearly don't get it. No one is arguing un-modded content can't exist. They are saying it's not helpful and can in fact be dangerous.

 

Let me send you some fake instructions on how to fix your computer and let me know how it works out for you. 

 

"But this broke my machine" you cry to no one. 

 

"Hey you asked for content, you didn't ask for it to work." I will reply. 

 

Mods keep pages working, keep them from being fake news, and generally make your life easier. They are just as valuable as content creators, and without them, you don't get good  content, you just get content and there is nothing to stop bad actors from really screwing you over with bad advice or worse. There is a reason you don't go to tit-tok or twitter for computer repair tips, or programming advice. 

 

Honestly, I think you're just being intentionally obtuse. Good luck in your future endeavors.