THANK YOU NVIDIA!! - RTX 4060 Ti Review

[Velerio]

Does Benchmarks exist for the 4060ti on a PCIE 3.0 Motherboard? LTT sadly didn't even recognized that this card only has PCIE 4.0x8 so the speed is even less on an PCIE 3.0 Motherboard that probably most users in this price range poccess. Sad that there is only 1 youtuber out there that even recognized it that it only has 8 Lanes, and that's Der8auer. He did a test with pcie 4.0x4, but not sure if this can count as a proper test on an PCIE 3.0 Motherboard.

 

So anyone upgrading from a 3060ti might actually LOSE performance with a 4060ti, sadly there is not a real test out there that recognized it.

[DeerDK]

54 minutes ago, LMGcommunity said:

Refer to 8:25 of this video.

 

Still waiting on the acoustic chamber setup to record audio levels.

Thanks! And Doh!! 

I played it while in transit so must have been distracted at that time. 

Cheers

[Spotty]

@LMGcommunity

Was this review for the 4060Ti 8GB or 4060Ti 16GB card? All of the performance slides have it labelled as just "4060Ti" and doesn't say which version it is, neither does the video title. Other graphics cards like the Arc A770 and RTX 3060 are labelled in slides with their VRAM amount as "Arc A770 16GB" and "RTX 3060 12GB" respectively so it seems odd to not properly label which 4060Ti card this is.

[VaderCraft_]

3 hours ago, podkall said:

slightly better trash is still trash

fax

[LMGcommunity]

11 minutes ago, Spotty said:

@LMGcommunity

Was this review for the 4060Ti 8GB or 4060Ti 16GB card? All of the performance slides have it labelled as just "4060Ti" and doesn't say which version it is, neither does the video title. Other graphics cards like the Arc A770 and RTX 3060 are labelled in slides with their VRAM amount as "Arc A770 16GB" and "RTX 3060 12GB" respectively so it seems odd to not properly label which 4060Ti card this is.

All the slides show performance for the 8GB version and we've noted your feedback about the graphs, thanks!

[Zodiark1593]

8 minutes ago, Spotty said:

@LMGcommunity

Was this review for the 4060Ti 8GB or 4060Ti 16GB card? All of the performance slides have it labelled as just "4060Ti" and doesn't say which version it is, neither does the video title. Other graphics cards like the Arc A770 and RTX 3060 are labelled in slides with their VRAM amount as "Arc A770 16GB" and "RTX 3060 12GB" respectively so it seems odd to not properly label which 4060Ti card this is.

The RTX 3060 actually has differing memory bandwidths depending on the version used, the 8 GB card getting a 128-bit bus, and the 12 GB card getting the 192-but bus, so distinguishing this is understandable. (Ironically, this gives the 3060 more memory bandwidth than the 4060 TI)
 

Unsure about the A770 though. I doubt Intel is pulling similar shenanigans here. 
 

This product seems to be more beneficial for their board partners, than for the end user. From a manufacturing standpoint, achieving similar to better performance than the predecessor, while requiring a simpler board and fewer components, is an interesting proposition. If Nvidia commands a similar price for the chip itself, this is kind of a big deal for partners. No idea how expensive components are these days though, and the end user gets none of the benefits, so…

[Kronoton]

39 minutes ago, Velerio said:

He did a test with pcie 4.0x4, but not sure if this can count as a proper test on an PCIE 3.0 Motherboard.

4.0x4 is the same bandwidth as 3.0x8 so unless something else is borked in your system you should similar if not identical results.

 

But..... even at -5% you might have gone to point where an older or non-NVidia GPU with 16 lanes is the clear winner.

[ScoggsUK]

Damn, I was so looking forward to retiring my second hand 1080 this generation. 

 

Waiting on what team red has to offer, but I might have to go with a last gen team red card.

[DeerDK]

Just now, ScoggsUK said:

Damn, I was so looking forward to retiring my second hand 1080 this generation. 

 

Waiting on what team red has to offer, but I might have to go with a last gen team red card.

Yeah, somehow it feels like the big winner in the whole new release circus is the rx 6000 series. Decent amount of vram and nice price drops.... 

[GOTSpectrum]

I just got a 4070ti so I'm gonna be good for a while... Tbh everything from team green including the 4070ti is wayy overpriced, but I got an okay price and for folding, my main use for GPUs team green is the only way to go 

[ScoggsUK]

3 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

I just got a 4070ti so I'm gonna be good for a while... Tbh everything from team green including the 4070ti is wayy overpriced, but I got an okay price and for folding, my main use for GPUs team green is the only way to go 

I have no idea on the point your trying to make in relation to the 4060ti? 

[starsmine]

2 hours ago, XNOR said:

Looks like you're using Digikey. "Boutique" component sellers aren't representative of what it costs Nvidia or any other large scale integrator. LTT used the DDR6 spot pricing, as can be seen at 0:22 in the video. Contract pricing is possibly better than spot pricing.

 

https://www.dramexchange.com/

https://www.trendforce.com/price

 

 

 

yes, buying 2kchips as one unit is so boutique when they expect purchases to buy more than 1 unit

Yes, 1GB chips that are not used anywhere at unknown speeds, much more valid pricing then the price its actuallly being sold for. 
Yes, they can get contracts for buying in bulk, but to think you can buy it for 1/3rd the price of the market by buying 40k chip units rather than 2k units is insane.

Trendforce does not even have GDDR6

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

You don't have access to what Nvidia pays for the memory, and it's likely nowhere near what you're quoting.

Jesus christ its not like I posted the pricing or anything. Its not taken out of my ass, its the market price. 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

1 hour ago, Kid.Lazer said:

I can get a 6700 10GB card that performs about the same for only $280. What a garbage Nvidia product.
https://www.newegg.com/sapphire-radeon-rx-6700-11321-02-20g/p/N82E16814202424?Item=N82E16814202424

More VRAM too

[Kronoton]

2 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Yes, they can get contracts for buying in bulk, but to think you can buy it for 1/3rd the price of the market by buying 40k chip units rather than 2k units is insane.

 

What would be insane about that? NVidia buys them by the container long in advance just like any other big player.

What isn't bound by these contracts goes to spot market where prices will fluctuate like crazy and a after a few profit margins are added the land at Digikey.

Or maybe not, as they have nothing in stock.

 

Just use some logic, both the 4060Ti and upcoming 4060 have 8GB, if that was anywhere near 100$ these cards would have even higher MSRPs.

[Kid.Lazer]

6 minutes ago, starsmine said:

yes, buying 2kchips as one unit is so boutique when they expect purchases to buy more than 1 unit

Yes, 1GB chips that are not used anywhere at unknown speeds, much more valid pricing then the price its actuallly being sold for. 
Yes, they can get contracts for buying in bulk, but to think you can buy it for 1/3rd the price of the market by buying 40k chip units rather than 2k units is insane.

Trendforce does not even have GDDR6

Jesus christ its not like I posted the pricing or anything. Its not taken out of my ass, its the market price. 

The point though is that if any Joe Shmoe can go buy them in a quantity of 1, then they are going to be marked up very high. The prices on digikey or mouser are far from factory direct/bulk pricing.

[starsmine]

 

Just now, Kid.Lazer said:

The point though is that if any Joe Shmoe can go buy them in a quantity of 1, then they are going to be marked up very high. The prices on digikey or mouser are far from factory direct/bulk pricing.

No one is talkign about buying quantities of 1
digiky MINIMUM order is "1 box", which is 1260 chips. 
Thats a MINIMUM order of 25 thousand dollars. 

Which yes, is not much revanue, but thats the MINIMUM order size, and generally people buy them tape and reel, not box, aka 2k, aka 39k minimum order to use on a pick and place machine. And people buy mulitple reels for a run. 

 

[Kronoton]

2 minutes ago, starsmine said:

digiky MINIMUM order is "1 box", which is 1260 chips. 
Thats a MINIMUM order of 25 thousand dollars. 

 

So? Thats not the problem. Digikey is buying either from the factory which sees anything that isn't a full container (or something on that scale) as small fries, or from another middle men (who will also take a cut).

 

Them not having anything in stock either suggest that they only buy them if they have an order (read smaaaaaaal quantities) or that the spot market is dried up (scalper ahoy).

[Lebon14]

2 hours ago, Velerio said:

Does Benchmarks exist for the 4060ti on a PCIE 3.0 Motherboard? LTT sadly didn't even recognized that this card only has PCIE 4.0x8 so the speed is even less on an PCIE 3.0 Motherboard that probably most users in this price range poccess. Sad that there is only 1 youtuber out there that even recognized it that it only has 8 Lanes, and that's Der8auer. He did a test with pcie 4.0x4, but not sure if this can count as a proper test on an PCIE 3.0 Motherboard.

 

So anyone upgrading from a 3060ti might actually LOSE performance with a 4060ti, sadly there is not a real test out there that recognized it.

Why is not recognized? Because at this point, unless you stick to the bottom, that cards will start to really saturate a pcie gen3 16x link. It'll just be the RX 6400 XT all over again. It didn't really matter much two-three years ago but, now, it starts to actually do.

[XNOR]

48 minutes ago, starsmine said:

yes, buying 2kchips as one unit is so boutique when they expect purchases to buy more than 1 unit

Yes, 1GB chips that are not used anywhere at unknown speeds, much more valid pricing then the price its actuallly being sold for. 
Yes, they can get contracts for buying in bulk, but to think you can buy it for 1/3rd the price of the market by buying 40k chip units rather than 2k units is insane.

Trendforce does not even have GDDR6

Jesus christ its not like I posted the pricing or anything. Its not taken out of my ass, its the market price. 

Yes, buying 1000-2000 chips is boutique in this industry. Those are quantities the big boys aren't going to bother dealing with, so you're stuck with these smaller quantities at a premium. You're talking about wildly different market segments and wildly different target audiences. No sizeable board integrator is going to buy VRAM from Digikey other than for prototypes and such. They have entire departments which deal with procurement and related negotiations.

 

Quantities of 2K units or 25k USD are rounding errors in this industry, no matter how big these numbers seem to a layman. Nvidia can ship as many as 50+ million cards in a year (2021). If you ballpark 8 8Gb chips for a card on average, that's 400 million GDDR VRAM chips, and that's just for Nvidia cards, and just one year.

 

Just to illustrate how big a number that is: there are 31.622.400 seconds in a year. If you wanted to count 400 million chips by hand, and somehow could manage 10 chips per second, you'd still be about a million short at the end of a full year of non-stop counting.

[Kronoton]

6 minutes ago, XNOR said:

No sizeable board integrator is going to buy VRAM from Digikey other than for prototypes and such.

 

Add that at least for NVidia board partners have to buy the RAM through them (hence noone puts more RAM on the GPU then sanctioned by NVidia) which means that NVidia is >50% of that market. Add AMD (+ board partners) and Intel (not sure if they are on the same gen of VRAM).

 

What is left? Repair shops, obscure small number products and maybe some of these weird unofficial parts-bin GPU from China. 

[GOTSpectrum]

1 hour ago, ScoggsUK said:

I have no idea on the point your trying to make in relation to the 4060ti? 

The point I was making is eventually we all gotta upgrade, and you buy the best thing for your use case. 

 

If you are just gaming, AMD is better value, but if you need CUDA, are interested in RTX, or some other Nvidia thing, well you gotta buy what you gotta buy.

 

If people buy it, it will stay the same price, if they don't it will fall in price. That's market economics for you.

[XNOR]

3 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

 

Add that at least for NVidia board partners have to buy the RAM through them (hence noone puts more RAM on the GPU then sanctioned by NVidia) which means that NVidia is >50% of that market. Add AMD (+ board partners) and Intel (not sure if they are on the same gen of VRAM).

 

What is left? Repair shops, obscure small number products and maybe some of these weird unofficial parts-bin GPU from China. 

GDDR can be and is used for non-graphics applications. It can for instance be used in large scale manufacturing of networking equipment, but will also be used in smaller scale equipment built for specific markets and customers. There are a lot of companies which build specialist equipment in small runs, from a couple of thousand units up to and including single units, for all kinds of niche applications and industries.

 

It really depends on your application, but relatively cheap high bandwidth memory has a lot of uses.

[Quackers101]

youtubers be like:
"THANK YOU NVIDIA"
"Do Not Buy"

 

it seems like the 4060ti (16) will maybe become 2x the price of an 4060 in some areas...
also how game-ified they have done their spec sheets now, sucks.
a lot of useful information gone, just "game features" added.

GeForce RTX 4060 Ti - GeForce RTX 4060
          
NVIDIA CUDA cores, 4352 - 3072
16gb - 8GB
128-bit
watts 165 - 115

max temps 90c (1080 had 94c, and 300~ bit for around the price, 3060ti 93c 256, 3060 192-128)

4K 12-biters HDR with 240 Hz and uses Displayport 1.4a + DSC (Display Stream Compression, to monitors using DSC, not supported on older cards)
HDMI 2.1a: up to 4K 240 Hz or 8K 60 Hz with DSC, dsc putting 48Gbps to 128Gbps?

 

3060 "8nm" vs 4060 "5nm", but better reduction in power. (117w vs 170~ or 160 vs 200)
would be cool to see AMD with 7600, but I guess it might not change things around.

 

to consoles using 256-320 bit, 128 seems poor and the price difference.
versitile memory vs the speed it might need. doesnt sound great for loading/textures. so yeah the hardware space for PC kinda sucks.

also gn not so happy, games not liking the vram + bit bus limit in games that need it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2b0MWGwK_U

rant about DSC, ports and cables, might be something to push for showing what the cards really supports

Spoiler

I guess we skipped on how DSC was used back then, same type card will have it, but not all supports it, with older HDMI going around 10-18Gbps. would doubt for never cards, but you never know.

FRL replacing TMDS, hardware needed and not required?
Also dynamic HDR has to be supported by card which might be done with firmware.
Mostly firmware support for SBTM, not always?
QMS vs VRR, one for media other for interactive content, fixed vs changing (could it cause VRR bugs/issues).
and most features being "optional" and not always clear on many products

 

[powertoys]

4060 Ti 8 GB - DOA for $399.

4060 Ti 16 GB - Might as well get a 4070, price is too close.

 

4060 could be interesting if it was priced closer to $199. Sad that the last reasonably priced entry-level GPU was the 750 Ti...

[bezza...]

i swear to god if amd does not do anything about this im getting a xbox