Is 650W enough for RTX 4070?

[braveheart0707]

5800X3d

32GB DDR4

A couple of SSD, one HDD.

Seasonic GX-650 80 Plus Gold.

Newegg calculation puts it at under 600W.

Do I need a PSU upgrade or is it okay? (like barely okay or plenty okay?)

[bezza...]

 i would not recomend try and get a 850w unit

[misterdarvus]

If your PSU is high quality I think it's fine, your PSU is A tier on PSU tier list and rated gold

[DeerDK]

8 hours ago, Tomberry said:

 i would not recomend try and get a 850w unit

For a 200w card?!? 

That sounds like massive overkill to me 

[starsmine]

your PSU is more then enough for that build. (plenty okay)

[NB912]

So I should probably not worry about it with Corsair’s RMx750?

[GamerDude]

2 hours ago, DeerDK said:

For a 200w card?!? 

That sounds like massive overkill to me 

For me, it's about about added headroom and expansion and/or upgrades, so an OP'ed PSU is ideal. I'd gotten a Corsair HX 1000 Platinum back in 2019 for an R9 3900X + X570 build I was building at the time. I was reusing my VEGA 64 back then, then upgraded to an RX 6800, then to an RX 6900 XT. Sure, I knew an 850W Gold/Plat PSU would be fine, but I'd rather pay more for more power. To paraphrase an old saying, "I'd rather have more power, and not need it, than not have enough power, and need it".

 

Then, earlier this year, I'd again upgraded to an RX 7900 XTX. Do you think I need to upgrade my PSU? It's rock steady powering my main rig even after >3 years. When getting a PSU, don't just get what is enough for you present build, consider upgrades and such along the way, and pony up for a higher power, minimum Gold rated PSU and you'd be fine for years to come.

[DeerDK]

2 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

For me, it's about about added headroom and expansion and/or upgrades, so an OP'ed PSU is ideal. I'd gotten a Corsair HX 1000 Platinum back in 2019 for an R9 3900X + X570 build I was building at the time. I was reusing my VEGA 64 back then, then upgraded to an RX 6800, then to an RX 6900 XT. Sure, I knew an 850W Gold/Plat PSU would be fine, but I'd rather pay more for more power. To paraphrase an old saying, "I'd rather have more power, and not need it, than not have enough power, and need it".

 

Then, earlier this year, I'd again upgraded to an RX 7900 XTX. Do you think I need to upgrade my PSU? It's rock steady powering my main rig even after >3 years. When getting a PSU, don't just get what is enough for you present build, consider upgrades and such along the way, and pony up for a higher power, minimum Gold rated PSU and you'd be fine for years to come.

But if OP's existing psu is sufficient, there is no need for that upgrade yet. OP can wait and get one later, and then "futureproof" even further. 

 

OP already has the headroom from last upgrade, so throwing that away and spending money to get headroom for the next potential upgrade invalidates the whole buy with headroom for more upgrade cycles argument, as you basically tell OP to cut that (existing) headroom period short 

[starsmine]

14 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

For me, it's about about added headroom and expansion and/or upgrades, so an OP'ed PSU is ideal. I'd gotten a Corsair HX 1000 Platinum back in 2019 for an R9 3900X + X570 build I was building at the time. I was reusing my VEGA 64 back then, then upgraded to an RX 6800, then to an RX 6900 XT. Sure, I knew an 850W Gold/Plat PSU would be fine, but I'd rather pay more for more power. To paraphrase an old saying, "I'd rather have more power, and not need it, than not have enough power, and need it".

 

Then, earlier this year, I'd again upgraded to an RX 7900 XTX. Do you think I need to upgrade my PSU? It's rock steady powering my main rig even after >3 years. When getting a PSU, don't just get what is enough for you present build, consider upgrades and such along the way, and pony up for a higher power, minimum Gold rated PSU and you'd be fine for years to come.

There isnt a single single GPU/CPU build that requires more then an 850W. Even a 4090 and 13900k are comfortable on an 850W.

I agree with get one you can expand into, but OP is already doing that with a high quality 650W PSU that wont even sweet with 320W (7900xt) GPUs and 220W CPUs. (R9 7950x)

 

Added headroom does not really do much for a build as it just makes the PSU more inefficient and costs more upfront (efficiency curves fall off a cliff under 10%, aka much of the life your computer is on, so instead of pulling 70W from the wall to provide 60W to the PC, your 1KW one for OP would be pulling 80W from the wall).

[GamerDude]

3 minutes ago, DeerDK said:

But if OP's existing psu is sufficient, there is no need for that upgrade yet. OP can wait and get one later, and then "futureproof" even further. 

 

OP already has the headroom from last upgrade, so throwing that away and spending money to get headroom for the next potential upgrade invalidates the whole buy with headroom for more upgrade cycles argument, as you basically tell OP to cut that (existing) headroom period short 

I guess, it really depends on the age of his present PSU, as after all, the components of a PSU degrades over time and usage. As for my argument/point, well, all my PSU are well over what's needed, as I believe that whenever I feel like upgrading, I can because I know my PSU is up to the task. As you can see, my 2nd rig is powered by an Enermax MAXREVO 1500W PSU that I'd gotten even before my HX 1000 (at that time, the MAXREVO was a spare in my storeroom (my then 2nd rig had a Seasonic X-1250, and my HTPC had a Corsair HX1050).

 

I knew that IF I keep my MAXREVO in a dry storeroom and use it after a couple of years, it'd power any single GPU high end system. That's why I always, ALWAYS, buy PSU that are way above what I'd need at that point in time. And one more thing I'd like to add, though I think it's okay for now to run the RTX 4070 on that PSU for now. I'd always consider it a risk to reuse an old/older PSU (not more than 2 years old) that may have just enough for a configured system, and it's always struck me as silly that some are willing to throw good money at a spanking new GPU, but aren't quite willing to do so when it comes to PSU.

 

Now, IF OP has a 750W/850W Gold rated PSU that is 2, even 3 years old, I'd say hell yeah, go for it. My reason for being over cautious is simple, I may be risking the OP's system with my recommendation with bad advice (It's not my rig after all, but I feel a moral obligation to say what I truly feel on the subject), so I'd rather err on the side of safety.

[DeerDK]

 

10 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

I guess, it really depends on the age of his present PSU, as after all, the components of a PSU degrades over time and usage. As for my argument/point, well, all my PSU are well over what's needed, as I believe that whenever I feel like upgrading, I can because I know my PSU is up to the task. As you can see, my 2nd rig is powered by an Enermax MAXREVO 1500W PSU that I'd gotten even before my HX 1000 (at that time, the MAXREVO was a spare in my storeroom (my then 2nd rig had a Seasonic X-1250, and my HTPC had a Corsair HX1050).

 

I knew that IF I keep my MAXREVO in a dry storeroom and use it after a couple of years, it'd power any single GPU high end system. That's why I always, ALWAYS, buy PSU that are way above what I'd need at that point in time. And one more thing I'd like to add, though I think it's okay for now to run the RTX 4070 on that PSU for now. I'd always consider it a risk to reuse an old/older PSU (not more than 2 years old) that may have just enough for a configured system, and it's always struck me as silly that some are willing to throw good money at a spanking new GPU, but aren't quite willing to do so when it comes to PSU.

 

Now, IF OP has a 750W/850W Gold rated PSU that is 2, even 3 years old, I'd say hell yeah, go for it. My reason for being over cautious is simple, I may be risking the OP's system with my recommendation with bad advice (It's not my rig after all, but I feel a moral obligation to say what I truly feel on the subject), so I'd rather err on the side of safety.

The psu is within spec in relation to the 4070, from a reputable brand (I don't know with the exact model - my 460w fanless platinum is going strong since 2015).

IIRC Seasonic has upped their warranty to 12 years now (may be wrong, but its long) 

 

 

Unless it's unstable or reeeeeeally old, why on earth do you want OP to spend money they don't need to? 

 

For the "headroom"? They apparently did that the last time since the psu is still within spec, so if you want new headroom for the upgrade, what was the point for choosing headroom last time? 

And if OP follows your advice, next time they look at an upgrade, wouldn't you just tell them to get a bigger and newer psu again?

[bezza...]

3 hours ago, DeerDK said:

For a 200w card?!? 

That sounds like massive overkill to me 

i mean psus degrade over time. if the psu calculator says 600w then you are running it close to the limit. you dont want your psu to fail. you also have to account for power spikes that could cause the pc to shut off

[GamerDude]

14 minutes ago, Tomberry said:

i mean psus degrade over time. if the psu calculator says 600w then you are running it close to the limit. you dont want your psu to fail. you also have to account for power spikes that could cause the pc to shut off

That's what I mean, but he seems so confident of his opinion, so I don't wanna argue.

 

As I'd stated, I feel a moral obligation saying and recommending what I'd recommended, as after all, it's NOT my rig I'm potentially risking, but IF DeerDK is so insistent his opinion is the one that matters, and he thinks it's the correct one, who am I to argue? It's quite possible and likely that the Seasonic 650W PSU would be okay, IF it weren't and kills the GPU, and possibly other components, what can he say then? Sorry? Would that be enough?

 

I'd pointed out I'd re-used my HX 1000 Platinum simply because it has more power than required for my upgraded system (despite being 3 year old). IF the OP's PSU were a 750W or higher Gold rated unit (at the very minimum), I'd have said what I'd stated before, and that was to go for it. I'm a proponent of 'to err on the side of safety' kinda guy, as I'd stated previously.

[DeerDK]

12 minutes ago, Tomberry said:

i mean psus degrade over time. if the psu calculator says 600w then you are running it close to the limit. you dont want your psu to fail. you also have to account for power spikes that could cause the pc to shut off

If they recommend a 600w psu for the 4070 I'm pretty sure they have taken powerspikes into account. 

Op didn't say it was close to 600w, just that it was under. 

 

 

Also how quickly do you think the psu degrade? 

 

2 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

That's what I mean, but he seems so confident of his opinion, so I don't wanna argue.

 

As I'd stated, I feel a moral obligation saying and recommending what I'd recommended, as after all, it's NOT my rig I'm potentially risking, but IF DeerDK is so insistent his opinion is the one that matters, and he thinks it's the correct one, who am I to argue? It's quite possible and likely that the Seasonic 650W PSU would be okay, IF it weren't and kills the GPU, and possibly other components, what can he say then? Sorry? Would that be enough?

 

I'd pointed out I'd re-used my HX 1000 Platinum simply because it has more power than required for my upgraded system (despite being 3 year old). IF the OP's PSU were a 759W or higher Gold rated unit (at the very minimum), I'd said what I'd stated before, and that was to go for it. I'm a proponent of 'to err on the side of safety' kinda guy, as I'd stated previously.

I'm just saying you can't have it both ways. Either go for headroom for longlivity or go for a new one for each upgrade because you fear for psu degradation. 

Your argumentation kept leaping from one to another. 

[GamerDude]

10 minutes ago, DeerDK said:

II'm just saying you can't have it both ways. Either go for headroom for longlivity or go for a new one for each upgrade because you fear for psu degradation. 

Your argumentation kept leaping from one to another. 

What I'm saying is, get as high powered Gold rated PSU as you can possibly afford, IF that means an 850W or 1000W PSU or higher, why not?! As exemplified by my MAXREVO 1500W PSU which I'd gotten years ago, it'd power any high end rig even up to now despite its age as there's plenty of headroom. What about this don't you get? 

 

IF you're wondering why I did not use it (MAXREVO 1500W PSU) on my present system, it's because my HX1000 is newer, and I'd lost the Enermax box containing all the extra cables for my MAXREVO, I'm left with only 2x 8pin PCIe power connectors (I think the box had another four more extra) and since my RX 7900 XTX  needs 3x 8pin PCIe connectors, I can't use the MAXREVO which would easily manhandle my RX 7900 XTX.

[DeerDK]

1 hour ago, GamerDude said:

What I'm saying is, get as high powered Gold rated PSU as you can possibly afford, IF that means an 850W or 1000W PSU or higher, why not?! As exemplified by my MAXREVO 1500W PSU which I'd gotten years ago, it'd power any high end rig even up to now despite its age as there's plenty of headroom. What about this don't you get? 

 

IF you're wondering why I did not use it (MAXREVO 1500W PSU) on my present system, it's because my HX1000 is newer, and I'd lost the Enermax box containing all the extra cables for my MAXREVO, I'm left with only 2x 8pin PCIe power connectors (I think the box had another four more extra) and since my RX 7900 XTX  needs 3x 8pin PCIe connectors, I can't use the MAXREVO which would easily manhandle my RX 7900 XTX.

A: you are using a 7900 xtx. A flagship model with a tdp way above what OP is asking about. You are comparing a gpu with a max power draw above 400w (according to Guru3d) to a gpu that HUB measured a max spike at around 230w (IIRC). 

 

B: If that how you feel, and that makes you feel safer, sure. Do that. But it's hardly the "golden middle road" to recommend a PSU that much bigger to replace a PSU that by itself, by a lot of sources, already is more than adequate, is well within warrenty (unless extremely old) and ranks on the A tier list according to psu cultist list. 

Its just not reasonable. But as I say, if you feel better that way, sure, go ahead. But I reserve my right to argue against that advice and calling it overkill. 

 

Edit, Also, I won't claim to be a saint either. My pet peeve is noise, so I'll go out of my way to get a fanless platinum or titanium model. That's not a good advice to give in general either, thats just my personal thing. Something import to me

[starsmine]

 

4 hours ago, GamerDude said:

That's what I mean, but he seems so confident of his opinion, so I don't wanna argue.

 

As I'd stated, I feel a moral obligation saying and recommending what I'd recommended, as after all, it's NOT my rig I'm potentially risking, but IF DeerDK is so insistent his opinion is the one that matters, and he thinks it's the correct one, who am I to argue? It's quite possible and likely that the Seasonic 650W PSU would be okay, IF it weren't and kills the GPU, and possibly other components, what can he say then? Sorry? Would that be enough?

 

I'd pointed out I'd re-used my HX 1000 Platinum simply because it has more power than required for my upgraded system (despite being 3 year old). IF the OP's PSU were a 750W or higher Gold rated unit (at the very minimum), I'd have said what I'd stated before, and that was to go for it. I'm a proponent of 'to err on the side of safety' kinda guy, as I'd stated previously.

You are stacking safety factor on top of safety factor on top of safety factor and telling people to spend more money then they need to both now and later, and spreading FUD based off your ignorance. "Moral obligation"? because you think a 650W isnt enough? If it were to blow up and take his system with it... Its Seasonic, you talk to them about your 1 in a 100 million PSU that should not have passed QC and get it handled. Go ahead and spend the extra couple hundred for your own piece of mind, but dont push that on others.

OPs system could safely run on a 550W PSU, SAFELY RUN, for years. Dude is running a 230W GPU and a sub 100W CPU. Everything else in the system taking 50W and you are not even at 400W Draw at full load. Transients sending it to low 500s for sub ms times in the worst cases, but thats literally what a cap is for. 

650w is already a safety factor, it being high quality as in, it can eat transient loads up to 140% (this is how fuses work in everything) and wont heat up and pop OCP is a safety factor on top of that. It using caps rated for 105C when it that model never goes above 60C is a safety factor. 
Caps age like this 


Here is a review for OP's PSU https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-650w-power-supply-review

Even when delivering 720W to the PC, and sucking 840W from the wall, it maintains a cool 57C, Not saying treat it as a 720W PSU, because OCP and all, but that its ALREADY overbuilt. 

If we talking about some PSU that is lieing about its capabilities, you might have a point. but that isnt the case here.

 

We are not talking about PSU from 15 years ago that were built with 60C rated capacitors that would slap a 750W on the side and call it a day.

[Winterlight]

Well I have 4070 Ti but basically it never hit in games over 200W and my system still draw in total ~480W
Than I uncap FPS spike too ~550W

I think 650W PSU is very close too it's limit.

[starsmine]

15 minutes ago, Winterlight said:

Well I have 4070 Ti but basically it never hit in games over 200W and my system still draw in total ~480W
Than I uncap FPS spike too ~550W

I think 650W PSU is very close too it's limit.

A, not a 4070ti
B, you are not close to the limit there. you are 80% there.... and its not a limit. 

For Seasonic and other quality brands, the PSU is rated at "This is a comfortable ammount of power I am able to provide for sustained periods of time over my warrantee period. you can ask for more for short time periods, but do not sustain that please"

50K hours of sustained full load at 40C, 40k hours if you cook it at 50C by pulling 110% the entire time (dont do that sustained, that is your built in safety factor there) And its not that it wont last longer then that, most of them will. hence the MTBF is 100k. Its just Seasonic knows that a few will and are not promising that it wont.

[GamerDude]

You know who you are, I'd read your post one last time, and have put you on my 'ignore' list. You said I have an RX 7900 XTX, but bear in mind I'd gotten my PSU >3 years ago, did I know anything about the RX 7900 XTX then? Back when I'd built my R9 3900X rig, I was using a VEGA64, sometimes a GTX 1080 (was undecided then as to which to use, but decided on the VEGA64 in the end). Based on that usage scenario, I'd have gotten a 700W PSU and save me some money.

 

However, I  knew I'd be upgrading my GPU in the future (in fact, didn't know of the RX 6900 XT as well) but I knew more PSU grunt would be needed. That's why I'd gotten the HX1000, because no matter what CPU/GPU I upgrade along the way, that HX 1000 would most likely be good enough. In the long run, it'd save me money as I do NOT need to upgrade to another PSU.

 

That's all I'm gonna say on this, whether OP wanna listen, it's entirely his prerogative. I'm done with this thread.

[DeerDK]

So that happened... 

Anyway, he still completely missed the point about OP having an adequate PSU already. So talking about upgrading with a lot of headroom was completely irrelevant. 

Good luck with your new GPU @braveheart0707

[SteveGrabowski0]

I ran a 6700 XT fine on a 450W unit (A-Tier, but still only 450W on the +12V rails). A good 650W unit is plenty for a 4070 that only has spikes to 235W in Techpowerup's testing and uses just under 200W in gaming. You're good.

[feraciouz]

For your reference OP, i also use almost the exact same setup as yours which is

- 5800x3d

- 32gb Ram

- 2 HDD's, 2 SSD

- 4 case fans

- RTX 3070

 

Been running this setup for 1.5 years (before 5800x3d i use a 3600)  with a Corsair RMX550 and see no problem at all. If the 4070 consume less than 3070 and have less spikes than 3070 then i see no problem running it with your PSU, given that your PSU is good enough to handle the spikes on the rail and have enough safety. 

 

But of course if you had more budget, a new PSU with a bigger headroom is always nice

 

 

[QuantumSingularity]

If you go for the 4070, you won't need a PSU upgrade. But i would always prefer to get a 6950XT for less money than the 4070 and get a better PSU with what's left.

[tuvok86]

650w is absolutely fine, especially with a 5800x3d, I don't know wtf people are smoking.