Arctic.de refuses agreed upon refund, because they send replacement cooler by (their) mistake.

[lambrosgg]

I had a defective LFII 420 cooler for 1 year (https://youtu.be/jHdEqWpexH0) for which I got a service kit and repaired it successfully myself. 10 days later, the pump died, so I decided I am done with AIOs and claimed the 6 year warranty. I wanted a refund since it was a defective product and they agreed to give me 90% of my money back minus the initial shipping cost, which seemed fair enough. Yesterday (a month after I sent my cooler back) I got a package and... there was a new cooler inside from Arctic. I want to note here: I never agreed to a replacement, never was informed it was coming, never even got a tracking number for it.

 

Contacting Arctic support, they said it was their mistake and of course they want it back. They also suggested I could sell it, so I am thinking maybe it wasn't really a mistake, but anyway. I agreed to send it back, but only if they arranged a pickup from my address. Shipping it from the post office (as they demand) means I have to lose a whole morning at work, printing labels at a shop, packaging and waiting in line for over an hour at the local post office.

 

They also refused to refund me before they got the cooler they sent me by their mistake back. At one point, they offered a full refund. It was 12 euros difference, which I am sure would cover the shipping cost difference from my address, so I can't even understand what is going on in their heads.

 I don't want more money, I want you to make it easier for me!

 

Speaking with a lawyer friend, he told me that the refund agreement and the cooler sent by mistake are 2 separate events. If they send me a cooler by mistake in the future, I am not legally obliged to return it, but now they can blackmail me, by withholding my refund. In any case, they are legally obliged to go through with the refund, since I never agreed to a replacement cooler. When I asked them to give me the contact information of their legal department, so my lawyer could talk to them, they stopped replying.

 

To be clear, I don't want to take advantage of their mistake and get a refund + a free cooler.
I made it also clear to them that I want to send it back, just have it picked up from my address, instead of wasting a whole morning of work to correct their mistake. The one who made the mistake should be the one paying for it (time+money), not the customer.

[Isuck Assimov]

depends on where this occured. I'm pretty sure in germany if they send you a wrong product by their mistake they can still demand you to send it back or pay the full price for whatever you recieved.

[lambrosgg]

2 minutes ago, Assimov said:

depends on where this occured. I'm pretty sure in germany if they send you a wrong product by their mistake they can still demand you to send it back or pay the full price for whatever you recieved.

They are located in Germany but I am in Greece. The whole thing is idiotic imo, they could just cover the cost of shipping from my address with the 12 euros plus they offered. Its really a burden to ship anything from the post office here and I don't want to go through it 2 times because they made a mistake.

[Mark Kaine]

its not a mistake,  german companies love doing that, its basically a legal scam getting around paying refunds... consumer rights my arse!

 

5 minutes ago, Assimov said:

depends on where this occured. I'm pretty sure in germany if they send you a wrong product by their mistake they can still demand you to send it back or pay the full price for whatever you recieved.

^yes, this. (they can do this forever too, iirc)

 

1 minute ago, lambrosgg said:

don't want to go through it 2 times because they made a mistake.

welp!

[PDifolco]

8 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

I had a defective LFII 420 cooler for 1 year (https://youtu.be/jHdEqWpexH0) for which I got a service kit and repaired it successfully myself. 10 days later, the pump died, so I decided I am done with AIOs and claimed the 6 year warranty. I wanted a refund since it was a defective product and they agreed to give me 90% of my money back minus the initial shipping cost, which seemed fair enough. Yesterday (a month after I sent my cooler back) I got a package and... there was a new cooler inside from Arctic. I want to note here: I never agreed to a replacement, never was informed it was coming, never even got a tracking number for it.

 

Contacting Arctic support, they said it was their mistake and of course they want it back. They also suggested I could sell it, so I am thinking maybe it wasn't really a mistake, but anyway. I agreed to send it back, but only if they arranged a pickup from my address. Shipping it from the post office (as they demand) means I have to lose a whole morning at work, printing labels at a shop, packaging and waiting in line for over an hour at the local post office.

 

They also refused to refund me before they got the cooler they sent me by their mistake back. At one point, they offered a full refund. It was 12 euros difference, which I am sure would cover the shipping cost difference from my address, so I can't even understand what is going on in their heads.

 I don't want more money, I want you to make it easier for me!

 

Speaking with a lawyer friend, he told me that the refund agreement and the cooler sent by mistake are 2 separate events. If they send me a cooler by mistake in the future, I am not legally obliged to return it, but now they can blackmail me, by withholding my refund. In any case, they are legally obliged to go through with the refund, since I never agreed to a replacement cooler. When I asked them to give me the contact information of their legal department, so my lawyer could talk to them, they stopped replying.

 

To be clear, I don't want to take advantage of their mistake and get a refund + a free cooler.
I made it also clear to them that I want to send it back, just have it picked up from my address, instead of wasting a whole morning of work to correct their mistake. The one who made the mistake should be the one paying for it (time+money), not the customer.

 

Humm, that kinda annoys me because Arctic has an incredibly nice support policy and customer care, why hold a grudge on them because they *said* you'll get a refund and *instead* you got a new cooler ? Both are valid ways of fulfilling their warranty duty

What about settling on keeping the cooler instead of a refund ? It'll be best for both parties

 

[Mark Kaine]

2 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

 

Humm, that kinda annoys me because Arctic has an incredibly nice support policy and customer care, why hold a grudge on them because they *said* you'll get a refund and *instead* you got a new cooler ? Both are valid ways of fulfilling their warranty duty

What about settling on keeping the cooler instead of a refund ? It'll be best for both parties

 

the problem is OP doesn't want the cooler, they said they'll refund - which they're not legally bound to do, except after agreeing to it, so if OP can't prove they agreed on a refund he's basically screwed i think...

[heimdali]

16 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

They are located in Germany but I am in Greece. The whole thing is idiotic imo, they could just cover the cost of shipping from my address with the 12 euros plus they offered. Its really a burden to ship anything from the post office here and I don't want to go through it 2 times because they made a mistake.

It's a scam because they don't want to refund you.  Thanks for the warning, I won't buy anything from them.  (If you're in Germany: Mediamarkt and Saturn both pull scams like that as well, so don't buy from those either.  In case you get an unwanted package, refuse it or contact the sender to have them arrange a pickup.  It's the senders problem, but if you do nothing and keep it, you're putting yourself into a bad position.  If you have a drop-off agreement, you're also in a bad position because you become responsible for what happens to the package once it's been delivered.)

 

In this case, your easiest option is probably to sell it

 

[manikyath]

you never agreed to receive the new cooler, since there is no agreement, there is no duty.

 

in a sense, the cooler arriving on your doorstep is in no way tied to your refund.

 

demand your refund, demand a shipping label to return the cooler at their cost. welcome to the EU.

be ballsy, because you're more in your right than you think you are.

 

it's like BMW suddenly dropping a new car on your driveway and expecting payment.

[heimdali]

3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

you never agreed to receive the new cooler, since there is no agreement, there is no duty.

No, at least in Germany, it's your duty to inform the sender that you received the unwanted package.  I guess it's not much different in other countries in the EU.  If you just keep it, you're putting yourself into a bad position.

 

 

[Isuck Assimov]

ok since you bought from a german seller:

According to german law they are entitled to repair or switch your product up to three times iirc. this is not warranty (which is issued by the company on their own terms) but Gewährleistung (customer protection law that ensures you do not fall victim to scammy businisses)

Gewährleistung only can be claimed easily in the first 6 Months( if bought before 2022) or 12 months (bought after 1.1.2022)

If your product still doesnt fit the product description or lacks a certain feature after these 3 fixing attempts you are then entitled to step back from the purchase contract and ask for your money back in exchange for sending the product back( they will pay for shipping, but you will have to drop it off at the post station usually)


Since you're talking about their warranty you're probably completely defenseless and your best shot is sending them a copy of the support saying that they agreed to a refund instead of a replacement.

[lambrosgg]

33 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

its not a mistake,  german companies love doing that, its basically a legal scam getting around paying refunds... consumer rights my arse!

 

Good to know since

 

the whole thing was suspicious. I should have been informed about the return and got a tracking number even if it was mistake. Now they just surprised me with a cooler. Direct copy paste from the support email:

 

"Of course, you can also sell the new Liquid Freezer II 420 yourself.
This way you might get more money than if you exchange it with us."

 

How convenient to go through the trouble of selling it myself right??

 

33 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

 

Both are valid ways of fulfilling their warranty duty

What about settling on keeping the cooler instead of a refund ? It'll be best for both parties

 

They are valid, but its not what was agreed. Please keep in mind this was a defective product that should have been recalled in the first place. So far I have (on behalf of arctic) do service work for them, uninstall the cooler 3 times, wasted a morning for the initial return and now they also demand to waste another morning for their "mistake". I don't want to keep it, I am using a D15 and never been happier.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

 so if OP can't prove they agreed on a refund he's basically screwed i think...

Oh I can prove everything. I have emails with the whole conversation with support from the initial warranty claim. They are the ones who proposed the 90% refund.

 

31 minutes ago, heimdali said:

It's a scam because they don't want to refund you.  Thanks for the warning, I won't buy anything from them.  (If you're in Germany: Mediamarkt and Saturn both pull scams like that as well, so don't buy from those either.  In case you get an unwanted package, refuse it or contact the sender to have them arrange a pickup.  It's the senders problem, but if you do nothing and keep it, you're putting yourself into a bad position.  If you have a drop-off agreement, you're also in a bad position because you become responsible for what happens to the package once it's been delivered.)

 

In this case, your easiest option is probably to sell it

 

Yes that was  the whole point, PSA for the community to know what the 6 year warranty they are so proud of really means. Just get a big air cooler and have peace of mind. I would deny the package, but I didn't know what it was! The courier just put in the elevator for me. I don't really care at this point, I just want people to know.

 

17 minutes ago, Assimov said:

oSince you're talking about their warranty you're probably completely defenseless and your best shot is sending them a copy of the support saying that they agreed to a refund instead of a replacement.

Who is "them"? Here are some screenshots of what the support said. I forgot to mention the condescending tone and how they are doing me a favor partially refunding a defective product that broke 2 times inside warranty...

[Applefreak]

4 minutes ago, Assimov said:

ok since you bought from a german seller:

According to german law they are entitled to repair or switch your product up to three times iirc. this is not warranty (which is issued by the company on their own terms) but Gewährleistung (customer protection law that ensures you do not fall victim to scammy businisses)

Gewährleistung only can be claimed easily in the first 6 Months( if bought before 2022) or 12 months (bought after 1.1.2022)

If your product still doesnt fit the product description or lacks a certain feature after these 3 fixing attempts you are then entitled to step back from the purchase contract and ask for your money back in exchange for sending the product back( they will pay for shipping, but you will have to drop it off at the post station usually)


Since you're talking about their warranty you're probably completely defenseless and your best shot is sending them a copy of the support saying that they agreed to a refund instead of a replacement.

I agree. Usually you can return a product within 14 days of having received it an get a refund. After that period is highly irregular to receive one.

My experiences with Arctic are somewhat limited as I have never asked for a refund. The last time I had a warranty issue was back when the company was still operating out of Switzerland. The overall experience was great and they send me a new Accelero GPU cooler before the old one arrived at their door step. 

I fully understand your frustration because it is an expensive cooler but I also do understand the other side of things. As a business owner, if a client use lawyer in a sentence, that most times refers to them wanting to punish your business instead of resolving the issue. And lawyers love you either way because they get paid no matter the outcome. 

It is quite possible that there was some kind of misunderstanding and they send you a replacement unit asap instead of checking with the customer agent first or he or she did not properly write it down. There is also the question if support staff is even permitted to agree to such a request but I am sure exceptions can be made if a mistake were to happen.

Make sure too keep the protocol of that conversation and remind them of said agreement.

If sent by mistake, they can send you a return label and have it picked up by a courier service.

Them sending you the wrong package and getting a refund are not one and the same.

If you feel frauded, you may want to ask your local government for assistance. 

I have no knowledge on Greece (except for history) so you probably know better who or what to contact, if Arctic is unwilling to cooperate.

I would assume that the overall issue is with a single employee in customer care who does take his or her job way too serious.

The overall policy of the departments probably is to avoid costs if and wherever possible. I am fairly certain that higher up and in PR, exceptions can be made.

[heimdali]

4 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

Yes that was  the whole point, PSA for the community to know what the 6 year warranty they are so proud of really means. Just get a big air cooler and have peace of mind. I would deny the package, but I didn't know what it was! The courier just put in the elevator for me. I don't really care at this point, I just want people to know.

At least they're not ignoring you, and refunding 90% after a year of usage is fair enough.  With a 6 year warranty, you could assume that every year would be a deduction of 16.67%.

 

With only two people handling the tickets, I would expect that they can know what they're doing and that it can't be an accident that they sent you a new cooler to avoid the refund ...

 

[heimdali]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:58 PM, lambrosgg said:

<attachment removed by staff>

 

This looks like they wanted to "refund" you buy sending a new cooler.

 

Maybe you need to explain to them that they sent you the new cooler by accident instead of the refund they promised and that it's of course their problem to pay for the shipping if they want the accidentially sent cooler back and that you still want the refund they offered.  They must be pretty confused.

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by colonel_mortis

[Isuck Assimov]

honestly, after reading these mails i think their responses are completely fine and the support seems to be doing their best.

The guy makes sure to guarantee that you will receive the refund, he just offers you alternatives that might have been beneficial for you as well.

Not great that your local post office makes it hard to send a package, but thats out of their reach.

If you buy something online and have it shipped to you you always have to be prepared to have to send it backunder certain circumstances.

[Isuck Assimov]

"Arctic.de refuses agreed upon refund, because they send replacement cooler by (their) mistake." the title is completely misleading and downright not true.


even in their last mail they still offer a credit note, you just have to send it in which is to be expected...

 

[Mark Kaine]

25 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

want to add an important detail that kinda proves they send me a replacement on purpose.

kind of! what this really reads like is "giving a refund would be a mistake!" ...

 

what you should do is what @Applefreaksaid, ask for a refund (with proof they already promised one) and for a "free" return ticket for the *totally honest* (wink wink )  "mistake" they made.

 

that way you have at least a very slim chance the refund goes actually through (german companies don't like costumers who know their rights so they'll likely give up on this little charade)

[Mark Kaine]

8 minutes ago, Assimov said:

The guy makes sure to guarantee that you will receive the refund,

ehh, nope? it says : reason : "mistake refund" aka the refund was the mistake  (hence we're shipping you the thing you didn't want again... until you want it!) 

 

sorry it seems pretty clear cut to me, they *already agreed* to a refund,  so where is it??

[Isuck Assimov]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

ehh, nope? it says : reason : "mistake refund" aka the refund was the mistake  (hence we're shipping you the thing you didn't want again... until you want it!) 

 

sorry it seems pretty clear cut to me, they *already agreed* to a refund,  so where is it??

read the emails ?

[lambrosgg]

18 minutes ago, heimdali said:

 

This looks like they wanted to "refund" you buy sending a new cooler.

 

Maybe you need to explain to them that they sent you the new cooler by accident instead of the refund they promised and that it's of course their problem to pay for the shipping if they want the accidentially sent cooler back and that you still want the refund they offered.  They must be pretty confused.

 

This was sent to me 2 days ago to include with the cooler they sent me by mistake. It was NOT in the initial return. Of course I explained, but I got ghosted after mentioning talking to a lawyer...

 

11 minutes ago, Assimov said:

honestly, after reading these mails i think their responses are completely fine and the support seems to be doing their best.

The guy makes sure to guarantee that you will receive the refund, he just offers you alternatives that might have been beneficial for you as well.

Not great that your local post office makes it hard to send a package, but thats out of their reach.

If you buy something online and have it shipped to you you always have to be prepared to have to send it backunder certain circumstances.

I am doing them a favor by being willing to return the extra cooler, but they act they are doing me a favor honoring their warranty...

 

Its within my legal rights to get the refund that was agreed upon AND keep the cooler they sent by mistake. He is not doing his best, he scammed me. Please look at the document above that was NOT provided in the initial return, proving I was never indented to get a refund from them they just lied.

 

10 minutes ago, Assimov said:

"Arctic.de refuses agreed upon refund, because they send replacement cooler by (their) mistake." the title is completely misleading and downright not true.


even in their last mail they still offer a credit note, you just have to send it in which is to be expected...

 

Its 100% true. They hold my refund as ransom, until I fix THEIR mistake sending a replacement cooler (if its indeed a mistake and not done intentionally).

 

10 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

kind of! what this really reads like is "giving a refund would be a mistake!" ...

 

what you should do is what @Applefreaksaid, ask for a refund (with proof they already promised one) and for a "free" return ticket for the *totally honest* (wink wink )  "mistake" they made.

 

that way you have at least a very slim chance the refund goes actually through (german companies don't like costumers who know their rights so they'll likely give up on this little charade)

Ask from whom? They ghosted me...

[Mark Kaine]

4 minutes ago, Assimov said:

read the emails ?

 

the problem is why send a "replacement" when a refund is already agreed upon? 

[manikyath]

1 hour ago, heimdali said:

No, at least in Germany, it's your duty to inform the sender that you received the unwanted package.  I guess it's not much different in other countries in the EU.  If you just keep it, you're putting yourself into a bad position.

 

 

i didnt say keep it, i said it's detached from the refund, and it's up to the sender to arrange a return.

[lambrosgg]

5 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

the problem is why send a "replacement" when a refund is already agreed upon? 

Yes at this point after being informed its a common practice in Germany I am pretty sure they scammed me and I was never intended to get a refund. The document informing the warehouse that I am supposed to get refund instead of replacement cooler (see post above) was NOT provided in the initial return. They send it now, to include it with the cooler they sent by mistake. I also was never informed I have a return cooler on my way (to catch the "mistake" early) it was just sent to me.

It will cost me more to go the legal way, than selling the cooler they sent me. It reminds me Linus's take on the backpack warranty, that it doesn't really mean anything. If the seller is not willing to honor it, it might as well not be there, the customer has no defense.

At least I hope some people read this and just don't buy anything from Arctic. 

[Isuck Assimov]

2 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

I am doing them a favor by being willing to return the extra cooler, but they act they are doing me a favor honoring their warranty...

 

Its within my legal rights to get the refund that was agreed upon AND keep the cooler they sent by mistake. He is not doing his best, he scammed me. Please look at the document above that was NOT provided in the initial return, proving I was never indented to get a refund from them they just lied.

 

the lack of a document does not mean anything as they most likely are using a digital system to keep track of refunds. Since a mistake occured during the last refund process they probably added the doc to make sure whoever opens the package immediatley sees that you want a refund and not a replacement.

It is very unlikely that you have any legal right to keeping both the refund AND the product. it's either or. Assuming you are bound by the laws of the country you bought from.
Furthermore the refund is a voluntary service by arctic and not something you are entitled to (read the warranty Terms of Service)

[PDifolco]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

the problem is OP doesn't want the cooler, they said they'll refund - which they're not legally bound to do, except after agreeing to it, so if OP can't prove they agreed on a refund he's basically screwed i think...

Yes indeed, overall Arctic managed everything as they're bound to, they just didn't refund OP, but even then tried to solve the issue, they can't be blamed