Video games used to be better - What went wrong?

[mapegl]

11 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

to me the 90s and early 2000s had a huge advantage,  rental stores. you could literally play anything you want for literally peanuts (2 bucks/day?)

 

not sure about pc, but for consoles that was certainly true.

 

otherwise what was really better,  then or today,  is a matter of taste... we still get great games,  but I feel the real classics were more plentiful back then.

wipeout,  tekken,  f-zero, goldeneye, tie fighter, resident evil, doom, gow, halo, gran turismo, legend of zelda, dino crisis, chrono trigger, sonic, giana sisters, street fighter, silent hill, super mario, super metroid, metal gear solid, snatcher, ninja gaiden, burnout , monkey island, shadow of the beast, tetris, mario cart, mega man, medal of honor,  pac man, pong (lol), thps... the list is basically endless... i don't really think we get lots of equivalent stuff with long-lasting  effects anymore,  and that's also because publishers don't want to risk it anymore and rather bring out lots of samey stuff (that's also seen by the unification of controls,  that are often very similar,  even throughout genres)

 

Well some of that imo is due to the fact that there were things that were totally new. Not just the idea, but the tech just was not available before. I mean the pseudo 3D of the snes was in itself revolutionary and you can't beat that feeling of seeing something like that for the first time.

 

There are unbeatable classics, but SNES Mario Kart is (to me) not better than Mario Kart on the Wii or Wii U. It is good, but not better to me personally. I have a bunch of old titles on my steam deck, but I most regularly fire up the newish Nintendo stuff.

 

And that leads well into my next thought. 

I feel that games have progressed through the 90s and 2000s up to a certain point. New tech went along with new ideas and then the ideas ran out, but the games looked better. 

 

Which leads to another point. If you can't make people believe it is great from its looks, you gotta improve the gameplay. 

You mentioned monkey Island, which I also enjoyed very much, but the graphics were nothing to write home about. Nevertheless, it was funny and you could tell somebody put time into making it enjoyable for the actual interaction and not the looks (which arguably are still pretty cool for the time and still hold up ok). 

 

Whatever's the case, I feel like some people are starting to look for different ideas. 

I really enjoy hunt. It is similar but different, looks good, is exciting and I have never experienced a similar game. 

The souls games, also very different.

Survival games like ARK and Valheim. 

 

I am not saying there are not huge problems with some, but there are so many titles I enjoy right now, I just don't remember it ever being this diverse. 

[Mark Kaine]

39 minutes ago, mapegl said:

Well some of that imo is due to the fact that there were things that were totally new. Not just the idea, but the tech just was not available before. I mean the pseudo 3D of the snes was in itself revolutionary and you can't beat that feeling of seeing something like that for the first time.

yeah... that is part of it (not sure its a big part) but generally (besides we're seemingly agreeing on certain things) i was just saying,  actual new ideas became rare, and more importantly publishers (important to make the distinction here imo) just like to "play it safe" nowadays,  ie, no or minimal risk taking,  which can be especially seen by all the remakes and remasters (which is hilarious to me, for many reasons, and they're often not even better than the original, on the contrary due to the aforementioned streamlining, and playing it safe)

 

39 minutes ago, mapegl said:

There are unbeatable classics, but SNES Mario Kart is (to me) not better than Mario Kart on the Wii or Wii U. It is good, but not better to me personally. I have a bunch of old titles on my steam deck, but I most regularly fire up the newish Nintendo stuff.

 

that may be, but its still part of the seemingly endless stream of sequels , which again isnt a bad thing per say, i just feel its too much nowadays (again no risk taking, just keep doing the same stuff, often with minimal effort) 

 

39 minutes ago, mapegl said:

New tech went along with new ideas and then the ideas ran out, but the games looked better. 

there is also regression in that category however,  with a gazillion examples probably (which i won't be able to recall all now, or even know about some)

for example: tekken 6 looked better than tekken 7 (even though its basically the same artstyle) 7 just feels like a dumbed down version (graphically and mechanically) sure the resolution got higher, but the actual characters and stages are bland, missing details,  lighting took a huge hit...

Lol, i did a comparison once somewhere,  clearly showing the differences, and was immediately accused of "photo shopping" ... that's how far people are brainwashed nowadays,  not even taking evidence they could easily verify themselves, lol... 

that of course also implies people don't really care about graphics that much, as long its "new*" (*not really "new")... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

Also physics, kinda, somehow, keep regressing... feels they were on a height during ps360 generation,  but regressed since then (Resident Evil series is where i noticed that, for example) 

another thing people seemingly don't care about, but it feels like they were made to not care about, instead of general apathy,  because they sure *did* care when it was a thing pushed by the industry. 

 

tldr: yes, graphical fidelity keeps getting higher, everything else not so much or even regresses, hence i often prefer playing older games, or really niche games that have different priorities than the majority of games nowadays (prime example of such a game would be Kyoei Toshi, one of my all time favorite games, nobody ever has heard of lol~)

 

 

 

 

[mapegl]

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Snip*

 

I think we actually feel very similarly about the whole thing.

I am probably just as frustrated about some of those issues (at least was) and now I just look for stuff I actually like instead of following the main stream CODs etc. and it seems like you do the same. 

[QuantumSingularity]

The real deal about the early 2000s gaming is that developers always tried to push the limits, by bringing something new, never tried before, being it an advanced AI or experimental Art-style or cool story or incredible graphics. I remember the first time i got my hands on F.E.A.R - the game which basically restarted AI revolution. Up to that point the most advanced enemies we had were the soldiers in Half-Life and everything just following a pre-written pre-determined path. "Thinking" enemies are taken as granted now days, but still there a ton of games which still go for the single possible route. Also the lack of tutorials is the other thing i miss about old games. I don't have problem with the games which offer you the choice to play the tutorial, but where it is inevitable, it's soooo frustrating and even more when it's integrated as a part of the story. Case and point - Horizon Zero Dawn. The entire chapter with Aloy as a child is just a big tutorial to teach you how to use the focus. IT wish there was an option to turn all these hints off. I hate it when games takes away from me the option to find out things on my own.

[Vishera]

2 hours ago, QuantumSingularity said:

The real deal about the early 2000s gaming is that developers always tried to push the limits, by bringing something new, never tried before, being it an advanced AI or experimental Art-style or cool story or incredible graphics.

This reminds me - Can you believe that this gorgeous game was released in 2007 (Infernal)?

 

Even in 2012 Ghost Recon Future Solider didn't have screen space reflections:

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Case and point - Horizon Zero Dawn. The entire chapter with Aloy as a child is just a big tutorial to teach you how to use the focus.

i played the tutorial,  i still don't know what focus is or how to use it (i mean I know the button,  but...)

 

2 hours ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Also the lack of tutorials is the other thing i miss about old games

again, this isnt criticism,  just my impression,  you talk about a very narrow time-frame,  seems like 2000-2005 maybe? that's ok, but isnt super representative of the past in the grand scheme. 

 

Nintendo *always* had tutorials for example in certain games. i remember really struggling with that in mario paint,  p sure i even rage quitted, just let me paint u doofuses!

 

ps: its true though more games didn't have tutorials back then than now. 

Another case of "unification" across the board, i think publishers just aren't going to ship a game without tutorial... "too frustrating!" and "everyone has them!"...

 

 

15 minutes ago, Vishera said:

(Infernal)

 

that one looks nice, yeah around that time there were some gorgeous games, with pre-baked lighting and stuff , and just really atmospheric. 

 

the second screenshot looks horrible, washed out colors, boring...

 

Also iirc around that time was when AA etc became a thing, i remember my x1950gt made a big deal out of "anti aliasing", "anisotropic filtering" etc. that in itself seemed like a small revolution.  

 

 

 

[RealBACONATOR2]

Partially we are recovering from two years of limited development resources and interruption, and partially it's your own self getting older and enjoying video games less (or at least the games you used to play). Try to give new genres a try, or pick up other things to do besides video games, so they're more of an occasional thing.

 

For example, I was getting kind of burned out playing the same games after work, so I started getting into following the NHL and that's been pretty fun. And trying to learn from this league of really good billards players at a local bar in town. Also started playing League this year which has been quite the change from the usual FPS or RPGs.

[Vishera]

3 hours ago, RealBACONATOR2 said:

and partially it's your own self getting older and enjoying video games less (or at least the games you used to play).

That's not the case here...

I still enjoy the games i used to enjoy, and i still enjoy similar games.

It's just that there are too much bad AAA games released in recent years.

[Mark Kaine]

11 hours ago, RealBACONATOR2 said:

Partially we are recovering from two years of limited development resources and interruption,

honestly a certain kind of regression has been noticable since around 2014... in part, and probably a big part, was because PS4 was incredibly weak, and not well suited for "high end graphics". Either way 2014 was definitely a point where i started to notice things regressing, and other things, like microtransactions being on the rise.

 

Today, im utterly unimpressed with most "new" games coming out, it just seems like we're stuck and things like ray tracing,  higher resolutions,  etc don't necessarily mean better games, often the contrary (but of course its still resource intensive and "shiny" seemingly sells...) 

[Mark Kaine]

8 hours ago, Vishera said:

That's not the case here...

I still enjoy the games i used to enjoy, and i still enjoy similar games.

It's just that there are too much bad AAA games released in recent years.

I've been noticing... with exceptions like during SNES times, i really enjoy AA games more, AAA often does nothing for me, and yeah, they still make them, but less so, plus since definitely more games are coming out it's harder to find the good ones.

 

Back in the day you just bought (or rented!) the newest Sega or Nintendo game and it was "probably good" and something with new ideas etc ... (also applicable for ps360 gen, man did they throw stuff at the wall : p)

 

[Vishera]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

Back in the day you just bought (or rented!) the newest Sega or Nintendo game and it was "probably good" and something with new ideas etc ... (also applicable for ps360 gen, man did they throw stuff at the wall : p)

SEGA and Nintendo still make good games,

I really like the games that SEGA release now days.

Persona 5, Lost Judgement - Amazing games.

[Vishera]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

honestly a certain kind of regression has been noticable since around 2014... in part, and probably a big part, was because PS4 was incredibly weak, and not well suited for "high end graphics". Either way 2014 was definitely a point where i started to notice things regressing, and other things, like microtransactions being on the rise.

I noticed that too.

Ubisoft was one of the first AAA studios to face this regression.

For me it was the year when the good old Ubisoft died.

Ubisoft lost it's creativity and started copying ideas from others games creating an identity crisis in many of it's games.

Now Ubisoft is experiencing financial difficulties, with Ubisoft's CEO having his pay cut:

Quote

Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot is forgoing about a third of his annual compensation for the coming year, according to a recent company filing.

Why it matters: The unusual move signals just how rough things have been going for the Paris-headquartered mega-publisher of Assassin’s Creed and Rainbow Six.

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/23/ubisoft-ceo-pay-cut-yves-guillemot

[Ebony Falcon]

Elden ring master piece 

Spider-Man master piece 

stray amazing 

 

you miss games like Skyrim and farcry 3 because there were there were the first games that were really nailing the open world, if u look as assassins creed Valhalla u probly think Meh boring open word too much to do same quests over and over blah blah blah but actualy if that game launched at the same time as farcry 3 and Skyrim to would have blown them out the water and everyone’s minds

 

no one is pushing the envelop in aaa games because where is there to go 

 

ur missing the wow factor of games that have never done this before this is so cool  and if u want that u have to go to indie games where there not pushing a rinse a repeat to make money 

[RealBACONATOR2]

59 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Elden ring master piece 

Spider-Man master piece 

stray amazing 

 

you miss games like Skyrim and farcry 3 because there were there were the first games that were really nailing the open world, if u look as assassins creed Valhalla u probly think Meh boring open word too much to do same quests over and over blah blah blah but actualy if that game launched at the same time as farcry 3 and Skyrim to would have blown them out the water and everyone’s minds

 

no one is pushing the envelop in aaa games because where is there to go 

 

ur missing the wow factor of games that have never done this before this is so cool  and if u want that u have to go to indie games where there not pushing a rinse a repeat to make money 

All of this is fair! The new technology we're getting in the last couple of years is ray-tracing, which isn't super noticeable in most titles. But damn, skyrim is still a great game (especially with the mod that turns all the dragons into Thomas the Tank Engine)

[RealBACONATOR2]

Elden Ring is a triumph though. What an amazing game. Exploration, huge skill learning curve, stunning environments, just 100% outstanding title.

[Ebony Falcon]

1 minute ago, RealBACONATOR2 said:

All of this is fair! The new technology we're getting in the last couple of years is ray-tracing, which isn't super noticeable in most titles. But damn, skyrim is still a great game (especially with the mod that turns all the dragons into Thomas the Tank Engine)

Haha I actualy have this mod, but if Valhalla was released the same time as Skyrim no one would be talking about Skyrim 

[yazzmatazz]

I've been playing pc games for as long as I can remember (I'm 36 now). I think games are still just as great as they used to be. I just think there's too many games now and so it can be harder to find high quality games. The number of high quality AAA and indie games that are released each year (on pc and consoles) may not be increasing at a rate proportional to the total number of games released each year (I have no numbers, I'm just surmising here). 

 

It's also possible that with too many games (many of which we get on sale or through subscription services) we are less likely to give each game the time it deserves to fully appreciate it. For me personally, social media, streaming, and youtube have destroyed my attention span and I have to force myself to play a new game for a while before judging it. This is especially bad when I have a huge backlog of games that I am anxious to get through.

[QuantumSingularity]

Aside from the racing sims, the only modern games i currently play are Cyberpunk and Sniper Ghost Warrior 3 (and Contracts 1 and 2). Have whole of the Hitman franchise, but every game after Absolution looks really great, but has the *meah* feeling. Used to be so much fun this game, but now something big is missing from it. More opportunities to kill than every, but somehow it's not exciting like it is with the old games. And basically every game i play regularly is from about the late 90s up to 2015-ish. My most played NFS game - NFS 4. Most played Quake game - Quake 2. Even with Counter Strike i left GO and got back to 1.6. There are tons of Battlefield and Call of Duty games coming out every single year, but i still go back to Arma 3.

[RealBACONATOR2]

On 11/20/2022 at 3:06 AM, QuantumSingularity said:

Aside from the racing sims, the only modern games i currently play are Cyberpunk and Sniper Ghost Warrior 3 (and Contracts 1 and 2). Have whole of the Hitman franchise, but every game after Absolution looks really great, but has the *meah* feeling. Used to be so much fun this game, but now something big is missing from it. More opportunities to kill than every, but somehow it's not exciting like it is with the old games. And basically every game i play regularly is from about the late 90s up to 2015-ish. My most played NFS game - NFS 4. Most played Quake game - Quake 2. Even with Counter Strike i left GO and got back to 1.6. There are tons of Battlefield and Call of Duty games coming out every single year, but i still go back to Arma 3.

You can also emulate NFS-Uunderground 2 pretty well with stuff like PCSX2. Very fun game. Trunk audio!

[Poinkachu]

On 11/20/2022 at 3:06 PM, QuantumSingularity said:

Have whole of the Hitman franchise, but every game after Absolution looks really great, but has the *meah* feeling. Used to be so much fun this game, but now something big is missing from it. More opportunities to kill than every, but somehow it's not exciting like it is with the old games.

Well, that's the kinda feeling I got after a few of Ass Creed.
"Crap... Moar pickpocketing, leap of faith, killing numbskulls, and desynchronization".

 

On 11/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, RealBACONATOR2 said:

Elden Ring is a triumph though. What an amazing game. Exploration, huge skill learning curve, stunning environments, just 100% outstanding title.

Eh well, I don't hate the game.
I just somehow feels that it has more ..... unexplainable loose ends than ever. Which for me is annoying as heck.

I get that the whole franchise strive on puzzling story, and that players have to sort the story by themselves with their own interpretation.
Just that too many maybes is too many, I guess. Well that's how it is for me anyway.

If it's about mechanic... there is one thing that annoys me the most... when fighting big enemy. For the love of Ranni, let me target their feet instead of their thigh, geebus.

[RealBACONATOR2]

2 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

Well, that's the kinda feeling I got after a few of Ass Creed.
"Crap... Moar pickpocketing, leap of faith, killing numbskulls, and desynchronization".

 

Eh well, I don't hate the game.
I just somehow feels that it has more ..... unexplainable loose ends than ever. Which for me is annoying as heck.

I get that the whole franchise strive on puzzling story, and that players have to sort the story by themselves with their own interpretation.
Just that too many maybes is too many, I guess. Well that's how it is for me anyway.

If it's about mechanic... there is one thing that annoys me the most... when fighting big enemy. For the love of Ranni, let me target their feet instead of their thigh, geebus.

Just get a bigger sword and hit the whole thing at once

[Fendrick]

Lots of people only do 1 thing as a hobby, it gets boring after a while, take a break or reach out and try new things.

[Vishera]

8 minutes ago, Fendrick said:

Lots of people only do 1 thing as a hobby, it gets boring after a while, take a break or reach out and try new things.

Or your hobby changed over time while you didn't so you still use the old stuff because you don't like the new stuff.

[Fendrick]

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

Or your hobby changed over time while you didn't so you still use the old stuff because you don't like the new stuff.

Been gaming since 1995 at 5 years old, which side is right? if new games don't do it for you, do something else.

[Fendrick]

On 11/20/2022 at 4:01 AM, Ebony Falcon said:

Elden ring master piece 

Spider-Man master piece 

stray amazing 

 

you miss games like Skyrim and farcry 3 because there were there were the first games that were really nailing the open world, if u look as assassins creed Valhalla u probly think Meh boring open word too much to do same quests over and over blah blah blah but actualy if that game launched at the same time as farcry 3 and Skyrim to would have blown them out the water and everyone’s minds

 

no one is pushing the envelop in aaa games because where is there to go 

 

ur missing the wow factor of games that have never done this before this is so cool  and if u want that u have to go to indie games where there not pushing a rinse a repeat to make money 

Stray is trash but I agree to the other two.

 

Here are some more.

 

Resident Evil Village.

Horizon Zero Dawn.

Beyond Two Souls.

Spyro Reignited Trilogy.

Crash Bandicoot N.sane Trilogy.

DOOM.

God of War.

Jurassic World Evolution 1/2.

The Long Dark.

Monster Hunter: World.

Shadow Man Remastered. Obligatory OST.

Strange Brigade.

Vampire Survivors.

Ninja Gaiden Z.

V Rising.