Gaming On A CRT Worth It?

[JordanTrace]

I've read about when it comes to competitive gaming, CRT allegedly has no equal due to zero input lag. Read about how its CRT or nothing with Super Smash Bro tournaments/champs. I play Rainbow Six Siege on PS5 and I have an old CRT that still works just chilling in my house. Worth getting a hdmi to rca adapter and gaming on it? Or just a bunch of nonsense? TV I plan to use is a Trutech T2000-FT. Currently gaming on this viewsonic monitor https://www.viewsonic.com/us/catalog/product_datasheet/view/key/VX2475SMHL-4K.html 

[GeorgeMKane]

Please, don't do that to yourself and your PS5, unless you have some kind of retro fetish. I would highly recommend you stick with the monitor, or pick up a decent priced 1080p TV.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, JordanTrace said:

I've read about when it comes to competitive gaming, CRT allegedly has no equal due to zero input lag. Read about how its CRT or nothing with Super Smash Bro tournaments/champs. I play Rainbow Six Siege on PS5 and I have an old CRT that still works just chilling in my house. Worth getting a hdmi to rca adapter and gaming on it? Or just a bunch of nonsense? TV I plan to use is a Trutech T2000-FT. Currently gaming on this viewsonic monitor https://www.viewsonic.com/us/catalog/product_datasheet/view/key/VX2475SMHL-4K.html 

CRTs aren’t zero lag but they’re dang close compared to even lcd stuff.  Modern LCD panels are getting far closer than I ever expected though.  Unless you have a really slow LCD, or you’re doing pro level competition gaming, where a single point is worth 100k and your mere feeling that you have every possible advantage is more important than actual performance, or playing really early games designed for them they’re not really worth it.  They have problems even ignoring their immense size and weight and those are not small.  Good ones are sometimes impossible to carry by only one person because they’re so heavy.  The things are multi inch thick glass sheathed in lead.  For one, they’re a bit fuzzy.  For another they very often really don’t like high refresh.  They’re also designed analog, so you’ll have to convert back and forth.  The most powerful video card out with true analog signal was the 980ti.  If you’ve got a really slow LCD, just buy a fast new one. It will be orders of magnitude less trouble.  We’re talking microsecond of difference here.  People buy them for retro gaming for the look as much as anything else.  They have a particular tone and pixel shape that was designed for in those early games as much  as the low latency.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Bombastinator

[JordanTrace]

35 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

CRTs aren’t zero lag but they’re dang close compared to even lcd stuff.  Modern LCD panels are getting far closer than I ever expected though.  Unless you have a really slow LCD, or you’re doing pro level competition gaming, where a single point is worth 100k and your mere feeling that you have every possible advantage is more important than actual performance, or playing really early games designed for them they’re not really worth it.  They have problems even ignoring their immense size and weight and those are not small.  Good ones are sometimes impossible to carry by only one person because they’re so heavy.  The things are multi inch thick glass sheathed in lead.  For one, they’re a bit fuzzy.  For another they very often really don’t like high refresh.  They’re also designed analog, so you’ll have to convert back and forth.  The most powerful video card out with true analog signal was the 980ti.  If you’ve got a really slow LCD, just buy a fast new one. It will be orders of magnitude less trouble.  We’re talking microsecond of difference here.  People buy them for retro gaming for the look as much as anything else.  They have a particular tone and pixel shape that was designed for in those early games as much  as the low latency.

I plan on getting myself a 2022 oled, either Samsung or LG. Maybe Sony if they got the gaming part of it right this year. I just saw my old tv in the corner and thought back to the stuff I read about Smash tourneys. So the CRT stuff was just a placebo effect then? And if so, why the strict adherence to CRTs if the advantages are negligible?

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, JordanTrace said:

I plan on getting myself a 2022 oled, either Samsung or LG. Maybe Sony if they got the gaming part of it right this year. I just saw my old tv in the corner and thought back to the stuff I read about Smash tourneys. So the CRT stuff was just a placebo effect then? And if so, why the strict adherence to CRTs if the advantages are negligible?

I don’t know what lag levels are like on OLED in general much less specific models of monitor. There are weird things going on with quantum dot tech atm that may be worth looking into.

[Stahlmann]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

I don’t know what lag levels are like on OLED in general much less specific models of monitor. There are weird things going on with quantum dot tech atm that may be worth looking into.

In terms of complete input lag the LG C1 OLED is superior to even the best gaming monitor i've seen so far. Processing lag is as good with the much better pixel response times pushing it ahead. Even though it's only 120Hz. So currently announced 175Hz QD-OLED displays are bound to be the best displays yet in terms of input lag and response times. But that all depends on their quantum dot stuff not increasing response times or something weird like that. I guess we'll have to see.

 

@OP

There is a reason why you don't see competitive CS:GO players etc. playing on CRTs. Current high refresh rate monitors are better, period.

[JordanTrace]

2 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

In terms of complete input lag the LG C1 OLED is superior to even the best gaming monitor i've seen so far. Processing lag is as good with the much better pixel response times pushing it ahead. Even though it's only 120Hz. So currently announced 175Hz QD-OLED displays are bound to be the best displays yet in terms of input lag and response times. But that all depends on their quantum dot stuff not increasing response times or something weird like that. I guess we'll have to see.

 

@OP

There is a reason why you don't see competitive CS:GO players etc. playing on CRTs. Current high refresh rate monitors are better, period.

I see. So why do Smash people swear by CRTs if thats the case?

[Stahlmann]

3 minutes ago, JordanTrace said:

I see. So why do Smash people swear by CRTs if thats the case?

Maybe because that's "how it's supposed to look like". Idk many people playing these old games in emulators try to mimic a CRT's appearance on LCD monitors using filters etc. If they really use a CRT for competitive advantages that's a load of BS. There isn't one. Either they're talking nostalgy or placebo.

 

If they'd really have a competitive edge you'd see every valorant, CS:GO and other try-hards use them, especially when their gameplay is their career and they make money with being better.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, JordanTrace said:

I see. So why do Smash people swear by CRTs if thats the case?

Because if you ARE playing one of those retro games they have an annoying delay because of that tiny lag.  It’s only barely enough to react to but for someone who spent 6000 hrs playing super Mario brothers on such a thing can notice it as not being “quite right”

 

As far as competitive PvP shooters there’s a massive psychological component to athletes.  It’s a tiny difference.  Less than 1 microsecond, but it’s measurable, therefore people dive at it.  I know a guy who would go biking for excercise using a massively uncomfortable $2000 racing bicycle and racing silks.  I very much doubt either made him actually perform better, but he liked it and it was his money.  There are male swimmers that shave their legs because the pros do it.  It might make sense if you’re in the Olympics and a few inches is the differences between winning and losing, and therefore a lifetime of adulation or as an also ran.  I knew the best gas pitch softball pitcher in the word.  He PWNed everyone.  Was like a 4 time hall-of-gamer or something.  No one cares about fast pitch softball though so he was an assistant principle. I didn’t care either and thought his most interesting attribute was that he looked like Herman Munster (apparently part of being good at that was being well over 6’ tall) but for the majority of people I suspect the placebo effect myself.  I might be wrong. 

[Bombastinator]

13 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Maybe because that's "how it's supposed to look like". Idk many people playing these old games in emulators try to mimic a CRT's appearance on LCD monitors using filters etc. If they really use a CRT for competitive advantages that's a load of BS. There isn't one. Either they're talking nostalgy or placebo.

 

If they'd really have a competitive edge you'd see every valorant, CS:GO and other try-hards use them, especially when their gameplay is their career and they make money with being better.

There sort of is one but it’s tiny.  This was the issue with fast expensive vs slow cheap SSDs. If something takes a half second instead of a quarter second, sure it’s twice as fast, but do you really care?

Edited January 11, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Stahlmann]

41 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There sort of is one but it’s tiny.  This was the issue with fast expensive vs slow cheap SSDs. If something takes a half second instead of a quarter second, sure it’s twice as fast, but do you really care?

Modern LCD - and especially OLED - is just better in pretty much any way shape or form. Really the only reason to still use CRT i could think of is nostalgia, but then again i used them as a child and teen and never had any nostalgic feelings about them ever since.

 

I know that's a bit off-topic with all the Smash try-hards and so on, but i'd never prefer the "supposed" better input lag when it comes with all the other downsides, especially picture quality compared to any modern display.

 

We're already at the point where a decent high refresh rate display won't limit your skills in any way. Even with hardcore pro players there isn't really a performance difference between them using 240Hz or 360Hz displays.

[Arika]

Absolutely not.

 

No offense intended but i highly doubt you're at a level where using a CRT over a regular low response time monitor will have any difference on your game play.

 

The monitor will not make you better.

[Bombastinator]

46 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Modern LCD - and especially OLED - is just better in pretty much any way shape or form. Really the only reason to still use CRT i could think of is nostalgia, but then again i used them as a child and teen and never had any nostalgic feelings about them ever since.

 

I know that's a bit off-topic with all the Smash try-hards and so on, but i'd never prefer the "supposed" better input lag when it comes with all the other downsides, especially picture quality compared to any modern display.

 

We're already at the point where a decent high refresh rate display won't limit your skills in any way. Even with hardcore pro players there isn't really a performance difference between them using 240Hz or 360Hz displays.

My understanding is the only thing CRTs have is an insane latency of something like a quarter millisecond or less, vs a few milliseconds or something.   The problem is that humans just don’t react fast enough for it to make a real difference.  It’s several times faster, but the number is so small that by human timescale it just doesn’t matter. Psychologically it amounts to a superstition, but with high level athletes this sort of thing can matter so old CRTs have a bigger market than retro gamers.

[IPD]

I guess some people prefer gaming displays with scanlines too.  I will never understand these people.  But each to his own.

[Bombastinator]

55 minutes ago, IPD said:

I guess some people prefer gaming displays with scanlines too.  I will never understand these people.  But each to his own.

It makes sense for the retro gamers.  Those games were built for that system..  the fuzzy pixels blend together, and the muscle memory stuff they spent so many hours honing as children are again correct.   I think it even makes sense for the desperate pros in its own way.  It just doesn’t make sense for anyone else though.

[Tan3l6]

Yeah, matter of perspective. Reaction times on CRT are great, yet the image is blurrier in any condition.

Also many games might not support 4:3 aspect ratio, not sure about that though, times have advanced since I used CRT.

[Doobeedoo]

People play other fighting games on modern flat panels competitively fine. I play shooters and I miss motion clarity of CRT though, LCD just can't be that fast. CRTs are not produced anymore, there are some high end ones that's hard to find, they can get high refresh rate, but yeah. Could say it's rather niche though.

[SolarNova]

its worth using an old CRT TV for PS2 and older consoles imo. You get the proper experience.

 

However for anything PC related u want a CRT Monitor due to the higher resolutions and refresh rates they can do vs TV CRTs, for any game pre 2016 u can make do with a 980ti card with DVI-I port for analogue and get an excellent CRT experience.

That being said, unless ur a lucky SOB who has access to a FW900 or one of its rebrands, or something at least somewhat close to its level of superiority, u might as well just get urself a fast LCD monitor with a good BFi implementation, it will give u a close enough experience.

 

Ultimately we are getting to close to the point where modern display tech has finally caught up to CRT levels of motion clarity. An OLED with BFI enabled is exceptional clear and with Samsungs QD-OLED monitors coming soon, all be it VERY expensive, we should finally have access to monitors that legitimately have no technical flaws vs CRT.

[Bombastinator]

My understanding of CRT is you want a trinitoron tube and a useful cable.  The latter may be a trick.  Sony made the tribute one.  They are easy to identify because the screens are dead flat and they’re even deeper and heavier  than a lot of CRTs. Also if they have one or two missing scan lines depending on size.  This is because there is a wire inside the vacuum tube to keep the sides from collapsing. The front glass is like 4 times as thick for that reason

[Mark Kaine]

crts are wonderful, however most have low resolution,  thats not so wonderful,  but there are hd crt tvs and monitors,  often very expensive,  also usually referred to as "holy grail". definitely worth it, if you have couple of thousand bucks you don't know what else to do with.

12 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

I play shooters and I miss motion clarity of CRT though,

that's the thing, it might have a bit lower input lag, the bigger difference though is just how much better the image on a good crt looks.

12 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

there are some high end ones that's hard to find

*at reasonable prices. the really good ones usually go for 4000 us$ and up