My Dad Thougt Putting iMac out in 0C (32F) would fix it. What do I Do to prevent condensation?

[AMixOfGeekContent]

My dad thought putting a broken iMac out in the cold (0 degrees celsius ie 32F) would fix its screen problem.

I found out about this 22 minutes later.

Can I fix it or prevent or minimize damage from condensation?

If not, what happens if I plug in a water damaged HDD into another PC while trying to backup the data? Will the HDD damage whatever I plug it into?

 

Edit: it's not a laptop. It's an iMac. Didn't mean to confuse anyone there.

iirc, it's a 2011 model, 27" screen Intel iMac.

I might open it up and see if there's any water droplets or signs of corrosion (though there shouldn't be any corrosion since no one turned on the computer after it was in the cold, right?).

I was thinking of opening it up anyways because the screen was broken before it was out in the cold.

 

Details:

When I brought it in, he plugged it in, but I stopped him from turning it on.

I blew air at it hoping that would help. But I don't think I got a good blow inside the vents.

I left it in my room for a couple minutes (room is 21.1C or 70F). Googled it. Then I found out how condensation can damage a laptop that was in a fridge lol.

Later, I put it near an open door (i.e. not as cold as outside, not as warm as inside) to try and minimize condensation from a more slower, gradual temperature change.

Now the door is closed, and I turned on the ceiling fan to hopefully reduce moisture in the air.

Note: no actual water was spilled on the imac. Any water damage would be from condensation.

 

 

Please let me know, especially about the Hard drive question above. Cuz if the HDD can damage my PC, I do not wanna plug it in there!

 

 

 

[aDoomGuy]

Well depending on how much moisture there is...

 

A previously submerged device left at room termperature should be fine after 7 days without a power source connected.

 

If it only has been cold 24 hours should be plenty at room temp. First it needs to warm up so the condensation can evaporate and as much as possible leave the laptop. Generally if you don't mind the risk it may be ok to use once it's warmed up (to room temp), which I mostly do and have had no problems with but none of those things have been a iMac...

[BobVonBob]

I wouldn't worry about it and just turn it on now, it's going to be totally fine. During university I would regularly turn on my laptop immediately after spending at least that long in much colder weather with no ill effects. Granted it was in a bag, but it was always cold enough that the metal parts of the chassis were unpleasant to touch.

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

Option 1: While it is still in the 0C environment, turn on the laptop. It'll warm itself up, you can warm it up more by running intensive tasks. Once it's warm you can bring it back to a warm environment with no concern for condensation.

 

Option 2: While it is still in the 0C environment, remove the battery and press the power button a couple times. Then bring the laptop inside and let it sit for 24 hours. After 24 hours put the battery back in and you can use it as normal, any condensation will have dried up, and will not have caused any damage.

[AMixOfGeekContent]

5 minutes ago, Hairless Monkey Boy said:

Option 1: While it is still in the 0C environment, turn on the laptop. It'll warm itself up, you can warm it up more by running intensive tasks. Once it's warm you can bring it back to a warm environment with no concern for condensation.

 

Option 2: While it is still in the 0C environment, remove the battery and press the power button a couple times. Then bring the laptop inside and let it sit for 24 hours. After 24 hours put the battery back in and you can use it as normal, any condensation will have dried up, and will not have caused any damage.

But I read that the sudden change in temperature is what can cause condensation. So I'm definitely not trying option 1.

Hopefully option 2 is good enough.

 

 

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

3 minutes ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

But I read that the sudden change in temperature is what can cause condensation.

That's not completely correct. Condensation forms on a surface when the surface temperature is at or below the dew point. The dew point depends on the temperature and relative humidity of the air.

 

Condensation will not form on the laptop at all if you do option one. It is not physically possible. A warm object in a cold environment can not collect condensation, only a cold object in a warm environment can.

[BondiBlue]

It'll be perfectly fine. My garage doubles as my workshop in the winter, and it regularly gets down to those temperatures. None of the computers I store and use out there have any issues at all.

 

By the way, you mentioned that the iMac is a 2011 27" model. If that is accurate, the screen is not the issue - the graphics card is. It's a very well known issue with the 2011 iMac (along with the 2011 15"/17" MacBook Pro and 2011 Mac mini) that will not be solved by making the computer cold. You'll need to reflow the GPU with a heat gun or an oven, or you'll need to replace the GPU entirely. 

 

14 minutes ago, Hairless Monkey Boy said:

Option 2: While it is still in the 0C environment, remove the battery and press the power button a couple times. Then bring the laptop inside and let it sit for 24 hours. After 24 hours put the battery back in and you can use it as normal, any condensation will have dried up, and will not have caused any damage.

OP is talking about an iMac, not a laptop. But still, 22 minutes in the cold is not long enough to cause condensation issues. It's fine to power it up. 

[HanZie82]

What i wouldve done is open the back (if thats still a thing) and then jsut have it evaporate off in room temp.
If its really bad put a fan on it so it s bit faster.
Check out the system if you dont see any corrosion you're good to go, maybe.
Then make sure you wait long enough en test.

[AMixOfGeekContent]

39 minutes ago, Hairless Monkey Boy said:

That's not completely correct. Condensation forms on a surface when the surface temperature is at or below the dew point. The dew point depends on the temperature and relative humidity of the air.

 

Condensation will not form on the laptop at all if you do option one. It is not physically possible. A warm object in a cold environment can not collect condensation, only a cold object in a warm environment can.

Okay. I should probably understand dew point stuff since I graduated from chemical engineering but I forgot lol. I'm guessing option 1 worked for you in the past?
 

[Mark Kaine]

the condensation isnt the problem.  the problem is plugging it into power as long there's still moisture. 

 

you have to wait couple of days for it to fully dry*. opening the case would obviously help with this. just keep it in warm dry place until its fully dried basically. 

 

if you plug it in before that permanent damage is (highly) likely. 

 

*edit: obviously if it was only outside for "22 minutes" you wouldn't need to wait that long

 

[AMixOfGeekContent]

38 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

It'll be perfectly fine. My garage doubles as my workshop in the winter, and it regularly gets down to those temperatures. None of the computers I store and use out there have any issues at all.

 

By the way, you mentioned that the iMac is a 2011 27" model. If that is accurate, the screen is not the issue - the graphics card is. It's a very well known issue with the 2011 iMac (along with the 2011 15"/17" MacBook Pro and 2011 Mac mini) that will not be solved by making the computer cold. You'll need to reflow the GPU with a heat gun or an oven, or you'll need to replace the GPU entirely. 

 

OP is talking about an iMac, not a laptop. But still, 22 minutes in the cold is not long enough to cause condensation issues. It's fine to power it up. 

Yeah, My dad tried turning it off and on, and said there were a bunch of pink and grey lines on the screen. Reminds me of my PC sometimes briefly having glitchy graphics at startup.

And the next time, his iMac just showed a white screen.

 

I'm too afraid to put a GPU in the oven, and I don't have a heat gun. But the info helps.

Wwho knows how much that GPU costs? (hopefully not as much as faster GPUs these days). Assuming it's not soldered.

I was thinking if anyone can fix an iMac fora  reasonable price, it's Louis Rossmann. But he's in New York City and I'm in Canada. Anyone know if there are similar Apple repair stores in Canada?

 

But then again, my dad said he's always worrying about the iMac, which he doesn't wanna do. He mentioned something like it gets hot? He saw someone on YOuTube taping their mac or something because of this? I figure I could open the iMac (and maybe its GPU) and blow dust out of it. It worked for my old GPU (tho blowing air into the GPU wasn't enough. I had to open the GPU itself).

 

Thanks for the info.
 

[Mark Kaine]

45 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

22 minutes in the cold is not long enough to cause condensation issues. It's fine to power it up. 

wouldn't be to sure about that, if the air had really high humidity either inside or outside it might have been enough [that's besides "22 minutes" is an oddly precise figure anyhow]

 

but, i agree insofar, even if there was some condensation,  it shouldn't be so bad and a few hours should be probably enough to get rid of any moisture (hopefully)

[AMixOfGeekContent]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

wouldn't be to sure about that, if the air had really high humidity either inside or outside it might have been enough [that's besides "22 minutes" is an oddly precise figure anyhow]

 

but, i agree insofar, even if there was some condensation,  it shouldn't be so bad and a few hours should be probably enough to get rid of any moisture (hopefully)

Lol my Dad said 22 minutes. Or 20-something minutes.

[Mark Kaine]

2 minutes ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

Lol my Dad said 22 minutes. Or 20-something minutes.

lol, i mean if you wait(ed) 1-2 hours before turning it on, it would probably be fine.  

 

im just going from a worst case scenario and well, condensation *can* damage a computer... its difficult to say if such a short amount of time does anything, really. 

 

[IkeaGnome]

I once left a laptop outside in the garage for 2 years when I moved. We see -35C in winters. Brought it in last February, plugged it in and fired it right up. 

[AMixOfGeekContent]

So thanks everybody for the replies.

Sounds like it's not as bad as i thought (well, at least for the condensation issue. There's still the screen issue).

I did notice my screen door window was wet on the inside from condensation tho. So yeah there's enough moisture in the air inside.

But then again, still, sounds like I just have to give the iMac time to evapourate any water inside, if at all. (unless iMacs are different from other PCs, which, from what I've heard, is quite possible for Apple products? But I figure a computer's a computer in this case. If this is wrong, plz let me know.).

Not sure if I'll open it today after all for that extra measure tho*. Should be fine, right?

 

 

*cuz my back hurts. I'll be fine tho, so don't worry.

 

[HanZie82]

3 minutes ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

So thanks everybody for the replies.

Sounds like it's not as bad as i thought (well, at least for the condensation issue. There's still the screen issue).

I did notice my screen door window was wet on the inside from condensation tho. So yeah there's enough moisture in the air inside.

But then again, still, sounds like I just have to give the iMac time to evapourate any water inside, if at all. (unless iMacs are different from other PCs, which, from what I've heard, is quite possible for Apple products? But I figure a computer's a computer in this case. If this is wrong, plz let me know.).

Not sure if I'll open it today after all for that extra measure tho*. Should be fine, right?

 

 

*cuz my back hurts. I'll be fine tho, so don't worry.

 

Opening up os more for worst case scenario. Just let it 'acclimate' overnight and most likely it will be fine.

From a moisture perspective. No idea about the screen itself tho.

 

Best of luck with your back, as having had back-aches i know. It sucks.

[AMixOfGeekContent]

PS Can plugging in the iMac (but not turning it on) start any water damage? Just in case anyone missed that part in my OP.

I'm no expert in electricity. So I'm just worried what if plugging it in put in a little bit of power into the iMac? P.S. the outlet might not have ground, if that matters. It's not the main outlet we use for computers tho. Those ones are grounded).

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

5 minutes ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

PS Can plugging in the iMac (but not turning it on) start any water damage?

Yes. If it was wet when you plugged it in, that can cause damage even if you do not turn it on.

[AMixOfGeekContent]

25 minutes ago, Hairless Monkey Boy said:

Yes. If it was wet when you plugged it in, that can cause damage even if you do not turn it on.

Uh oh. Hopefully it was plugged in too soon for any condensation to happen....

EDIT: I think the plug itself was dry. I'm guessing I would've noticed if it was dripping wet. It was on some ice that was dry.

I don't know for the inside of the iMac itself tho.

Assuming it was wet, would the hard drive be damaged?

Should I risk plugging the hard drive to my PC/installing it in my PC to try to recover data? Or could it damage my PC?

Would the outlet still be safe to use?

[Mark Kaine]

20 minutes ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

PS Can plugging in the iMac (but not turning it on) start any water damage? Just in case anyone missed that part in my OP.

yeap... it can, but its probably less likely than when you had actually turned it on.  i strongly suggest to unplug now [very carefully  : D ] if you haven't already and wait until its dry... if you really see some water/condensation it'll take a few days for sure (warm dry well ventilated space helps obviously)

 

 

Just a "fun" story: i had an old Pentium 1 pc standing under a window for several years, and well, it did rain sometimes and window was open,  which meant pc was completely soaked over night several times... but i had A) a plastic cover over the monitor - it would have definitely been damaged otherwise and B) i never had it plugged in when this happened,  so C) i always waited about a week for it to dry completely,  and D) the pc still works!  = )

 

tldr: wait until its fully dried and hope for the best, i guess! o.o

 

 

[BondiBlue]

1 hour ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

Yeah, My dad tried turning it off and on, and said there were a bunch of pink and grey lines on the screen. Reminds me of my PC sometimes briefly having glitchy graphics at startup.

And the next time, his iMac just showed a white screen.

Those are the classic symptoms of GPU failures in these iMacs. It's an extremely well known issue.

 

1 hour ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

I'm too afraid to put a GPU in the oven, and I don't have a heat gun. But the info helps.

Wwho knows how much that GPU costs? (hopefully not as much as faster GPUs these days). Assuming it's not soldered.

Unfortunately replacements on eBay for that card are still rather expensive, and they're also prone to failure. The only way you can get a GPU that isn't prone to failure is to use a different card, but they're not exactly cheap, and they'e also not plug and play. You could also downgrade to a much older GPU (like a Radeon HD 4670), but I wouldn't do that with a 2011 iMac. If you aren't willing to try a reflow (which absolutely can work - I'm typing this reply on a 2011 27" iMac with a GPU I reflowed a year and a half ago, and it's been running flawlessly) then a replacement is your only option. 

 

1 hour ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

I was thinking if anyone can fix an iMac fora  reasonable price, it's Louis Rossmann. But he's in New York City and I'm in Canada. Anyone know if there are similar Apple repair stores in Canada?

Are you comfortable removing some screws and working on it yourself? The 2011 iMac is the last iMac that is easy to open, and replacing a GPU isn't that difficult as long as you take your time. The GPU isn't soldered either, so you don't need specialty repair. 

 

1 hour ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

But then again, my dad said he's always worrying about the iMac, which he doesn't wanna do. He mentioned something like it gets hot? He saw someone on YOuTube taping their mac or something because of this? I figure I could open the iMac (and maybe its GPU) and blow dust out of it. It worked for my old GPU (tho blowing air into the GPU wasn't enough. I had to open the GPU itself).

Dust is not the issue. The issue with these GPUs is solder; the chip loses proper connection which leads to issues. As for tape, I'm not sure what you mean. These iMacs don't use tape to hold on the displays like the 2012 and later models do. 

 

Overall you have a couple options: reflow the GPU yourself and see if it'll live or replace the GPU with one that isn't prone to failure. Unfortunately there's nothing you can really do without opening the iMac once issues like this set in. I've dealt with it several times myself, so I know the challenges with it. 

[AMixOfGeekContent]

24 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

Those are the classic symptoms of GPU failures in these iMacs. It's an extremely well known issue.

 

Unfortunately replacements on eBay for that card are still rather expensive, and they're also prone to failure. The only way you can get a GPU that isn't prone to failure is to use a different card, but they're not exactly cheap, and they'e also not plug and play. You could also downgrade to a much older GPU (like a Radeon HD 4670), but I wouldn't do that with a 2011 iMac. If you aren't willing to try a reflow (which absolutely can work - I'm typing this reply on a 2011 27" iMac with a GPU I reflowed a year and a half ago, and it's been running flawlessly) then a replacement is your only option. 

 

Are you comfortable removing some screws and working on it yourself? The 2011 iMac is the last iMac that is easy to open, and replacing a GPU isn't that difficult as long as you take your time. The GPU isn't soldered either, so you don't need specialty repair. 

 

Dust is not the issue. The issue with these GPUs is solder; the chip loses proper connection which leads to issues. As for tape, I'm not sure what you mean. These iMacs don't use tape to hold on the displays like the 2012 and later models do. 

 

Overall you have a couple options: reflow the GPU yourself and see if it'll live or replace the GPU with one that isn't prone to failure. Unfortunately there's nothing you can really do without opening the iMac once issues like this set in. I've dealt with it several times myself, so I know the challenges with it. 

Hmm... So i looked up what reflowing a GPU means... Not sure I want to solder stuff. Or is it as simple as just blow a hair dryer at it, no soldering required?

Like I'm fine with opening up a PC (as long as anything that can electrocute me is not easily exposed*). But when it comes to soldering or sawing stuff or baking stuff in an oven, that's different.

 

I saw a big post on replacing the iMac's GPU. The costs and skills required (e.g. dremel cut part of a graphics card so it fits) seems too much trouble and money than it's worth. My dad's using a spare laptop for now.

 

Thanks for the info tho.

 

* I remember a Linus video where he and Rossmann were fixing an iMac, and they said don't touch this thing. It can kill you, even if it's unplugged iirc. And they weren't really sure why it was exposed. Different model iMac, but... ... I feel like now I gotta worry extra when opening up an Apple product.

[BondiBlue]

12 minutes ago, AMixOfGeekContent said:

Hmm... So i looked up what reflowing a GPU means... Not sure I want to solder stuff. Or is it as simple as just blow a hair dryer at it, no soldering required?

Like I'm fine with opening up a PC (as long as anything that can electrocute me is not easily exposed*). But when it comes to soldering or sawing stuff or baking stuff in an oven, that's different.

You're not soldering anything. You don't need to even own a soldering iron at all in order to reflow a GPU. A hair dryer will not work though - you need to use an oven or a heat gun. Yes, the power supply is exposed, but you don't need to touch it. Even if you do touch it it won't kill you unless it's literally plugged in, which it won't be. I've shocked myself a few times on those power supplies while working on various things, and it's not that bad. If you're not comfortable working near it then have someone else do it or sell the iMac for parts.