I broke our Surface Laptop Studio

[Jaesop]

On 10/10/2021 at 8:14 PM, deef0000dragon1 said:

Just briefly mentioning the investment like that isn't proper disclosure.

It is mentioning it though, which is what the guy he was responding to said. Context matters.

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, Jaesop said:

It just isn't that big of a deal. This idea that his investing in a company means he is untrustworthy is absurd given how established he is.

It's not that he's untrustworthy at all (though that's debatable), it's that he has invested in one laptop manufacturer and is reviewing another competing manufacturer. Since he wants the company he's invested in to succeed he'll review other laptops in a more negative light, making his review biased.

[Jaesop]

Just now, FakeKGB said:

It's not that he's untrustworthy at all (though that's debatable), it's that he has invested in one laptop manufacturer and is reviewing another competing manufacturer. Since he wants the company he's invested in to succeed he'll review other laptops in a more negative light, making his review biased.

So, it's not that he's untrustworthy, it's he'll review other laptops in a more negative light... so, acting untrustworthy.

 

He's an established presence in the tech space. The idea that you think he would sell his credibility for his investment is a sign you felt he was untrustworthy in the first place.

[WhitetailAni]

9 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

So, it's not that he's untrustworthy, it's he'll review other laptops in a more negative light... so, acting untrustworthy.

He's an established presence in the tech space. The idea that you think he would sell his credibility for his investment is a sign you felt he was untrustworthy in the first place.

In case you don't feel like watching the video, he says this:

Quote

The cleanest way to handle this is to recuse myself from all decisions related to our editorial coverage of notebooks books. With the size and talent of our team, that's a legitimate option these days. Frankly, I've had very little to do with it for a long time, since there's been so little in the space that's excited me.

Which I agree with. Linus shouldn't have anything to do with laptops anymore since it conflicts with personal interests (which is also why here in the US we have the conflict of interest).

However, he also says this:

Quote

But my only issue with that is that means I'll be giving up the opportunity to talk to you guys about truly incredible machines that I am excited about. Like the ASUS ROG Flow X13 that I've been daily driving for the last few months. Aside from some, yeah, "we sent you a prototype" bugginess, I absolutely love that thing. It is so cool.
So for that reason, I'm reluctant to completely butt out when there's still going to be stuff that I'm going to think is cool, and I'm going to want to talk about. What I know for sure is that even though I'm not ready to make a firm commitment to covering or not covering notebooks in the future, I will make a firm commitment to maintain the same level of honesty and transparency that you guys have come to expect from me. I will never say that I like something I don't, I won't hold back from anything I love. And I will keep you guys 100% apprised of the situation.

Which completely goes back on that, the bolded line in particular. And no, saying "maintain the same level of honesty and transparency that you guys have come to expect from me" doesn't equate to "I will not have a biased opinion on laptops due to my investment in Framework Computer".

 

It's not that I don't believe Linus is untrustworthy. It's just that he has a conflict of interest on the subject of laptops now, and as he said the cleanest way to resolve it is to no longer talk about laptops anymore. And as he said, he doesn't like this, but he knew what he was doing when he invested in Framework.

[Jaesop]

1 hour ago, FakeKGB said:

In case you don't feel like watching the video, he says this:

I'm aware of what he said. It's not what we're talking about.

1 hour ago, FakeKGB said:

Which completely goes back on that, the bolded line in particular.

Well.. yeah dude, he's explaining that's why he's not doing that. It's not going back on anything. "I could do this, but I am opting not to due to X".

 

1 hour ago, FakeKGB said:

And no, saying "maintain the same level of honesty and transparency that you guys have come to expect from me" doesn't equate to "I will not have a biased opinion on laptops due to my investment in Framework Computer".

That is literally what that is saying. Saying he will maintain the same level of honesty and transparency means he is not changing what he is doing, which is what having that biased opinion would be.

 

1 hour ago, FakeKGB said:

It's not that I don't believe Linus is untrustworthy. It's just that he has a conflict of interest on the subject of laptops now, and as he said the cleanest way to resolve it is to no longer talk about laptops anymore. And as he said, he doesn't like this, but he knew what he was doing when he invested in Framework.

Why is there this need to resolve it? LTT is not renowned for it's reviews. Calling this video a review is a pretty huge stretch in the first place.

 

Here's what it boils down to - if you don't believe he is untrustworthy, it's a non-issue. If you're saying it's an issue there are two possibilities - you do think he's untrustworthy, or you're just trying to make it an issue based on ill defined ideals and you don't actually have a tangible issue.

[Egg-Roll]

13 hours ago, Jaesop said:

which is what having that biased opinion would be.

Then explain the ending of this video where he states if you're fine owning a non-upgradable laptop in such a negative way where in the past (prior to investing in frameworks) he wasn't as negative sounding or snarky. Sure he brought it up in the past but not like how he did in this video, and I'm sure it's going to be a pattern too.

 

Also with Linus on the screen or having any part with the review its a conflict of interest, regardless if he can stay neutral or not. While others are asking LMG to stop in total, I'm just saying Linus needs to stop in total, the problem is he likely wont hence why no one should trust anything LMG says about laptops ever again, good or bad.

[Moonzy]

3 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Then explain the ending of this video where he states if you're fine owning a non-upgradable laptop in such a negative way where in the past (prior to investing in frameworks) he wasn't as negative sounding or snarky.

Technology improves and therefore standards improve

A laptop like framework only existed for niche customers before it arrived, so I would say it makes sense to comment about it now in every laptop he reviews because customizing your laptop is a more "mainstream" thing now

 

Now whether Linus can make such remarks is another story since he's invested in it, I'm on the fence on this one personally

But in the end if it's pushing the industry to a better future (think Louis Rossman pursuing right to repair even though he owns a repair shop), then I'm ultimately fine with it

[Chiyawa]

Oh ho ho. Well, Surface is 'premium' just like modern MacBook, and just like modern MacBook, there are no upgradeable parts. At least Surface can still upgrade their SSD, whereas MacBook these days is virtually e-waste if you are out of memory to store cat and dog videos...

[Arika]

13 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Also with Linus on the screen or having any part with the review its a conflict of interest.

It's funny, people are throwing around "Conflict of Interest" like it's some major scandal now because of the framework investment.

 

Every review, sponsored video, build guide, experiment etc that LTT has ever done is also technically a conflict of interest. why? Because he gets parts from manufacturers in exchange for a video. he doesn't pay for (most) them, therefore he would have an incentive to give favourable content to the manufactures that give him the most hardware. It's clear that they keep most of what they are given, even allowing employees to buy it from LMG or just take parts/computers etc for personal or work reasons (see the intel extreme upgrade videos)

 

a conflict of interest isn't automatically a bad thing, as long as proper disclosure is given and the audience understands why certain topics are brought up, then it is actually acceptable (under the law). Yes it's still a CoI, in the definition of the word, but it's by no means the nail in the coffin.

 

If you trusted LMG's reviews up until this point, then the investment shouldn't sway your opinion knowing the above. if you didn't trust them, then you wouldn't trust them anyway.

[Dracarris]

3 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

At least Surface can still upgrade their SSD

Yeah, but unfortunately you can't open it up, in stark contrast to Macbooks where all screws are clearly visible and you can easily put it back together the way it was without having to re-apply some adhesive or strips.

 

Who knows if the Surface even accepts non-MS SSD modules or if they are married to the logic board. In either case that leaves easy access for cleaning for the Macbooks which certainly can't be said for the surface.

[Chiyawa]

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Snip

True. Any form of electronic system must at least give user the ability to upgrade. Recently, most RAM were soldered to the motherboard for no apparent reason, making them technically an e-waste if more RAM demanding application and Operating System exist.

 

Still, come to think of it, these premium stuff are design for those rich kid or normal people who doesn't know or care to upgrade their system. They don't care if their system can be upgrade, they only care is that notebook is light and functional. So, guess Microsoft didn't care for us techies, or at least their Surface line-up.

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Yeah, but unfortunately you can't open it up, in stark contrast to Macbooks where all screws are clearly visible and you can easily put it back together the way it was without having to re-apply some adhesive or strips.

 

Who knows if the Surface even accepts non-MS SSD modules or if they are married to the logic board. In either case that leaves easy access for cleaning for the Macbooks which certainly can't be said for the surface.

There isn't anything serviceable in a macbook, and there hasn't been for a few years, those screws are more for display than anything else.

And I don't see why the Surface studio would have a MS specific SSD, the Surface pro 7 and Surface pro X have a replaceable SSD.

[Dracarris]

54 minutes ago, Chiyawa said:

Recently, most RAM were soldered to the motherboard for no apparent reason

Untrue. LPDDR has technical advantages when soldered as others have already explained in detail. High-pinout high-speed connectors are in general always a burden.

54 minutes ago, Chiyawa said:

Still, come to think of it, these premium stuff are design for those rich kid or normal people who doesn't know or care to upgrade their system.

Very untrue. A ton of users of those "premium stuff" (very accurate and descriptive) don't match your description at all. They are capable of choosing a configuration when buying the machine that fits all of their needs for the expected lifetime of the machine. This is not the 2000s anymore where there is a huge leap in technology every two years.

43 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

There isn't anything serviceable in a macbook, and there hasn't been for a few years, those screws are more for display than anything else.

Untrue. You can clean out dust or dirt, especially from the fans. Those screws fulfill their full intended purpose, giving you easy access to the inside. I can only repeat that opening up and reassembling Macbooks does not include finding hidden screws and is completely non-destructive, both certainly can't be said for the Surface discussed here. Good luck cleaning your fans.

43 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And I don't see why the Surface studio would have a MS specific SSD, the Surface pro 7 and Surface pro X have a replaceable SSD.

We'll soon see what ifixit has to say about the matter.

[Chiyawa]

13 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Untrue. LPDDR has technical advantages when soldered as others have already explained in detail. High-pinout high-speed connectors are in general always a burden.

Many manufacturer still soldered DDR4 RAM to the motherboard instead of LPDDR4. While its true it can be a burden, but come on, if the RAM speed is just at about 3200MHz range, it should be still capable of handling the speed. I even saw some laptop with DDR4 2666MHz RAM chip soldered on board. Even my Lenovo Yoga 6 13ARE05 uses DDR4 3200MHz RAM chips instead of LPDDR4. I was surprised to see this myself.

 

13 hours ago, Dracarris said:

They are capable of choosing a configuration when buying the machine that fits all of their needs for the expected lifetime of the machine.

Well, you do have a point. But also, they are design for those who don't care about the upgrades. The reason probably is that people can afford new stuff. However, for those that needs to sell a kidney for these premium stuff, will be a different story.

[LAwLz]

I'd just like to remind everyone that HP have been making very repairable laptops, posting not only the service manuals but also detailed videos on how to do the repairs, as well as detailed parts lists, for almost a decade now. Linus did not give two shits about that and hasn't even mentioned it.

Then, as soon as he got the chance to invest into Framework, whose main selling point is reparability, it gets a ton of videos dedicated to it, and it gets mentioned all the time.

The fact that Linus still hasn't mentioned HP and how they have been doing things similarly to what Framework does is quite telling. It's not that he is unaware of it either, someone superchatted him this info and all he said was "okay, cool" and then never mentioned it again. Could it be that this became much more important to him once he got invested into Framework and could make money? Could it be that he isn't mentioning HP because it would make the Framework company seem less appealing, now that people know their unique selling point isn't that unique?

 

 

Spoiler

  

On 10/11/2021 at 10:53 PM, LAwLz said:

Speaking of Framework, it really bothers me that he pretends like the whole reparability thing is something unique to Framework. HP has been posting documentation and even video instructions on how to repair their computers, as well as where to order spare parts, for many years now and never have gotten as much as a mention.

Here is a 57 minute long video from HP's support on how to replace essentially any part in their HP 840 G7 for example, and they have these videos for a ton of laptops.

 

Or if you prefer it in a written format, you can find it here.

But I guess their parts doesn't have QR codes on them so they aren't as hip and cool.

 

 

[dogwitch]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I'd just like to remind everyone that HP have been making very repairable laptops, posting not only the service manuals but also detailed videos on how to do the repairs, as well as detailed parts lists, for almost a decade now. Linus did not give two shits about that and hasn't even mentioned it.

Then, as soon as he got the chance to invest into Framework, whose main selling point is reparability, it gets a ton of videos dedicated to it, and it gets mentioned all the time.

The fact that Linus still hasn't mentioned HP and how they have been doing things similarly to what Framework does is quite telling. It's not that he is unaware of it either, someone superchatted him this info and all he said was "okay, cool" and then never mentioned it again. Could it be that this became much more important to him once he got invested into Framework and could make money? Could it be that he isn't mentioning HP because it would make the Framework company seem less appealing, now that people know their unique selling point isn't that unique?

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  

 

 

that funny i work  7 hp laptop this year. none had manuals. hp loves using the same name/model number with tons of variant parts or year apart.

everyone of them had a corrupt window image.

2 same year,1 a year before that and current.

btw they use the same body and everything...

 

but like and others... will keep complain on the subject.

when you dont know really how  reviewing has been for tech or games for years now.

hell basic research to.

 

[Chiyawa]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I'd just like to remind everyone that HP have been making very repairable laptops,

Dell as well. They have user manual for each model of their laptop. Though now it is becoming troublesome to pry their laptop apart if you don't have a proper tool.

 

Lenovo has part list you can refer to should you have determined the faulty components.

[Egg-Roll]

On 10/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, HenrySalayne said:

3. A conflict of interest needs a competing product.

A laptop is still a laptop at the end of the day, for the rest it's also why I stated this review wouldn't likely sway buyers.

 

Also don't bother tagging Linus, doubt he will ever reply which is even more concerning than anything we could type. Sure he's busy but noticed how the whole team has stayed silent on this matter? Not a single one has replied back about this matter, which is actually worrisome because maybe they don't know as well or worst to stay quite.

  

On 10/12/2021 at 3:10 PM, Moonzy said:

Technology improves and therefore standards improve

A laptop like framework only existed for niche customers before it arrived, so I would say it makes sense to comment about it now in every laptop he reviews because customizing your laptop is a more "mainstream" thing now

 

Now whether Linus can make such remarks is another story since he's invested in it, I'm on the fence on this one personally

But in the end if it's pushing the industry to a better future (think Louis Rossman pursuing right to repair even though he owns a repair shop), then I'm ultimately fine with it

I'm happy for frameworks and his investment, I've stated that several times in the past it's your second part that concerns me.

I'm 100% for reparability but not at the cost of looking like a shmuck because I support someone who invested and decided to go on screen to be indefinitely (potentially) biased. It's like how I like Tesla wish them success (and wish the big boys got their  together) but can't support Elon or the fanboys and their egos as well...

 

There's a fine balance of what's right and what's wrong in these cases, I think Linus is in the grey area bouncing between right and wrong, he did the right thing by investing but he could be doing the wrong thing by still being apart of the whole review process of other laptops. By being in videos he could be (or eventually) putting forward the image of Teslas fanboys of right to repair, personally I don't like that, it's like the clickbait titles/images started easy but got worst over time.

 

 

On 10/13/2021 at 1:59 AM, Arika S said:

It's funny, people are throwing around "Conflict of Interest" like it's some major scandal now because of the framework investment.

 

Every review, sponsored video, build guide, experiment etc that LTT has ever done is also technically a conflict of interest. why? Because he gets parts from manufacturers in exchange for a video. he doesn't pay for (most) them, therefore he would have an incentive to give favourable content to the manufactures that give him the most hardware. It's clear that they keep most of what they are given, even allowing employees to buy it from LMG or just take parts/computers etc for personal or work reasons (see the intel extreme upgrade videos)

 

a conflict of interest isn't automatically a bad thing, as long as proper disclosure is given and the audience understands why certain topics are brought up, then it is actually acceptable (under the law). Yes it's still a CoI, in the definition of the word, but it's by no means the nail in the coffin.

 

If you trusted LMG's reviews up until this point, then the investment shouldn't sway your opinion knowing the above. if you didn't trust them, then you wouldn't trust them anyway.

 

The issue is the fact Linus has a personal interest in frameworks now correct? Yes conflicts happen with such videos as you mentioned but those are usually caused by bias's or paid by the actual manufacture which is totally different from investing in a company and proceeding to review their competition which Linus is doing. I mock him for supporting ASUS and Seagate a lot so I know and understand Linus has clear biases towards certain companies, but those are personal preferences/what gets sent more often than not (ROG contest videos). For the Intel upgrade videos that's clearly sponsored by Intel so it's logical that all computers are Intel based no different than if LMG did a Dell sponsored video it would be weird for Dell to sponsor a HP review wouldn't it?

 

Trusting a video is also based on ones own personal opinion, I think he did a good job reviewing the Surface, up till he started the teardown then the "I invested in Frameworks buy that instead" started showing up, but also he didn't write the script he hosted it so I should actually be saying Alex did a great job at reviewing the Surface. I think some of their videos hold merit and laptop videos should be one of those, the issue now is are there any questionable practices going on behind the scenes because Linus can't bud out of one videos production (you'd have to be incredibly incompetent to screw up a laptop review). That's the issue, remove Linus from a laptops review process including screen time (he can do the sponsor spots obviously if they are pre done) and that issue will go away, people will obviously question the video esp if harping on reparability becomes obvious but those numbers will drop dramatically compared to Linus being on screen.

 

Here can you tell me what's wrong with this picture?

I'll tell you, being the host director and producer means he can break from the script and no one can stop him, throw in the fact he also runs the company means he's an unstoppable force to push his "agenda" if that's his intention. Isn't that concerning to you? If this was a sponsored video by MS that's a different story, but it isn't now is it?

[Moonzy]

6 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

I think he did a good job reviewing the Surface, up till he started the teardown then the "I invested in Frameworks buy that instead" started showing up

Answer some questions for me so I understand where you're from, imagine that he hasn't invested in framework

1) are you against him talking about the repairability of laptops?

2) are you against him comparing a revolutionary laptop that is well received by the industry to the laptop that he's reviewing now? With relevancy of course, where he commented on the repairability and then talked about framework

3) do you think anything he said was wrong?

[Egg-Roll]

1 minute ago, Moonzy said:

Answer some questions for me so I understand where you're from, imagine that he hasn't invested in framework

1) are you against him talking about the repairability of laptops?

2) are you against him comparing a revolutionary laptop that is well received by the industry to the laptop that he's reviewing now? With relevancy of course, where he commented on the repairability and then talked about framework

3) do you think anything he said was wrong?

1) No like I said in that reply you quoted but unless someone comes forth with the script proving Alex wrote those words (at which time the voice/attitude is all Linus still not a good idea tho to put him on screen at said time) how do we know those words didn't come from Linus directly because of his involvement? Linus has been pro repair for a while (he weirdly supported sealed consumer unfriendly replaceable batteries claiming waterproofness thinness etc...), the issue now is he has a financial interest in a company who is full right to repair and esp at the ending of this video imo it shows. If this was Louis Rossmann this matter would be different because he loves bashing on companies like Apple so we wouldn't likely see a change there.

2) The issue is it's him talking about it, it's the fact he's now involved, and his name is in the process of the video. If Alex (who wrote this script) was on screen and Linus's name/face was no where to be seen (credit where credit is due right?) I wouldn't be as skeptical as I am now, the issue is the image I showed above, Linus basically had full control over this video, the problem isn't him threw most of the video let's assume all words up to the teardown were 100% scripted by Alex, the issue is the last part, the teardown. Show me one video prior to his involvement that has this kind of attituded towards reparability/upgradability without showing evidence of it. I think the last video that had similar attitude to reparability was a gaming laptop that cost $5000 but they showed it on screen.

3) Up till the teardown no however like I said assume that was 100% scripted by Alex, my original comment in this topic stated he likely wasn't wrong about reparability however did the video show he was right about his words? No it didn't, so we are now required to believe a person who has an interest in a company with a reparable product on the market for the review of another companies product that apparently lacks said reparability without showing it. See the issue here? Lets say I invested in Company A that can be 100% modified/repaired by the consumer to every degree, then I go and review Company Bs product but don't show anything about reparability on screen (but whine about how screws are hidden, yes that's annoying 100% I agree that's a BS practice) then claim it's unrepairable for the buyer, how credible am I? Not very correct? So tell me how is Linus any different? Because you say so? Because he has millions of followers? Because he/LMG has made millions on Youtube? Nah, me with Company A to Company B is equal to Linus with Frameworks and the MS Surface. Don't make claims unless you can back them as you make them, he failed to do that, and because he failed to do that it's fair to assume it's because of his involvement with frameworks.

 

Like I said the review itself was fine, it's the ending that's the problem and shows why Linus needs to be removed from laptop reviews. Remove Linus remove this issue, correct? Regardless if he's right or wrong, reads 100% from the script with the attitude requested by the writer (with a baseball bat in hand to ensure he does as asked) and all he's being is a face and voice on screen (aka just host, nothing else), by removing the potential source of conflict from the video process of its entirety you remove the conflict potential. Simple logic.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

The lines are blurry but in this particular case, I don't see enough similarities.

If you need a device without

• a touchscreen
• pen support
• dedicated graphics
• a questionable dual-hinge mechanism
• a really nice screen

and you settle for a Framework laptop for less than half the price, Linus probably did you a huge favour.

On a personal level knowing about frameworks if the time ever comes for me actually needing a laptop I would most defiantly look at them, in part thanks to Linus. Tho equally I would look at Lenovo too, they throw their laptops on sale so damn frequently 

 

However you have to remember one thing Frameworks is a laptop manufacture, so while they currently have one product much like the Fairphone (I would say 3/3+ are the old "outdated" model even if they are still being produced, for now), a company trying to compete with the likes of Dell MS etc they would need to branch out to different laptop sizes types etc. So in the future I can see them releasing a touchscreen version maybe even one with dedicated graphics. In other words today they may have the XPS 13 from Dell and its price (at which time 100% go with frameworks, because F Dell) what's stopping them tomorrow from introducing a new version of the laptop that competes with the Surface? Now lets say that happens tomorrow, is there any way of us knowing Linus knew about said product before releasing this video? Maybe he did and he said what he said in this video before the announcement to try to push future sales to frameworks. Lots of "ifs" yes but neither of us can predict the future so neither of us can deny that possibility regardless how remote it is.

 

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

I'm quite sure Linus and his team are reading a lot of the things. It's unlikely there will be a reply here but maybe there will be a statement on WAN show or a few sentences in the next laptop review. And it takes time to discuss internally how to move forward on this subject. So give it some time.

 

You can always question if there is a conflict of interest. One solution would be for LTT to stop reviewing laptops altogether. Another less strict option would be for Linus to step down from all laptop reviews. But I think deciding for every single review "is this a competing product" is also a viable option. I can only point at the Surface Laptop Studio as something - I feel - is out of the current Framework range.

But I also understand that ripping out some (to be fair really well) hidden screws might shine a different light on this review. After all Framework whole deal is easy repairability.

So let's give Linus the benefit of the doubt and wait for the next review.

They could be reading it but typically they leave the grunt work for the poor moderators of this forum (Have a cookie for doing a great job ) to deal with, there's probably some sort of chain of command (or pure chaos) and only time I've seen anyone reply to a topic is if something excessive happens, like the Amazon store, Bixby etc... Reason behind that is they get so many @ in a day it's impossible to respond to all so the ones that are important will typically be ignored too. The only way they'll bring it up on the wan show is if both here and youtube gets fired up on the issue, but that typically requires Linus to really F up, give it time he will but this video ain't it imo. Equally shouldn't this have been thought about before proceeding with new videos?

 

Like I mentioned above competing or not in the same tier doesn't mean they are not competitors still, someone who believes in Linus's words might suffer with the "inferior parts" of the framework laptop for reparability aspect while yes that's their choice (as you pointed out) the issue is Linus influenced them to the company he has a financial stake in over buying something they actually could utilize in full for the years needed. Personally I think Linus should step away from the process not LMG unless it's LMG who is holding the interest then LMG needs to step away but that detail has yet to be cleared up (saying he invested doesn't mean he invested his own personal money, he could have invested LMGs money as he's the owner).

 

The ripping out of the screws was pure pain for me to watch, yes it's a dick move from MS but if something is snagging and a spudger isn't working logic is it's either crazy glued or more likely there's a screw not loose/found. I'm not convinced that was scripted but potentially a way of pushing anti right to repair, to be fair it is but equally spending a minute or 2 to find out why it's snagging (vs acting like a frustrated human) likely would have produced better results saving the laptop, granted lacking the cringe factor.

 

How many more times till enough is enough tho? Next video, 5 videos? If you ask me he shouldn't even be in them at all right now not future ones, plus the next review is likely recorded or in the process of being recorded so we'll likely need to wait for the one after that for any changes, and who says they won't try pushing their luck in hopes we will forget? What I've learned is their content is ok, but when they make mistakes they are hypocrites about it most of the time and either come up with some excuse during the wan show or say sorry it'll never happen again only for it or something similar to happen again. So I rather be proven wrong by LMG vs giving them the benefit of the doubt, it also gives them a reason to change.

[Jaesop]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:07 PM, Egg-Roll said:

Then explain the ending of this video where he states if you're fine owning a non-upgradable laptop in such a negative way where in the past (prior to investing in frameworks) he wasn't as negative sounding or snarky.

Sure. This laptop was a solid couple steps beyond most in terms of not being able to take it apart, to include MacBooks. I feel like that's super clear in the video?

 

Quote

While others are asking LMG to stop in total, I'm just saying Linus needs to stop in total, the problem is he likely wont hence why no one should trust anything LMG says about laptops ever again, good or bad.

Both are unreasonable. There isn't a problem. Again, if you felt Linus was trustworthy before then there's really no practical reason to think he'll suddenly start tinting any and all Windows to support his investment. If you feel he isn't now, then you clearly didn't before.

 

Not for nothing dude, but what should we distrust in this video? What does he say here that's incorrect? Your big concern is that he notes that it's particularly hard to disassemble... a consistent complaint in anything difficult to disassemble.

 

Their 'reviews' are not reviews and should never be what someone depends on when buying a $2,000 laptop. They're fun little overviews of products, and the vast majority of people watching it have zero intention of buying one.

[Egg-Roll]

3 hours ago, Jaesop said:

Sure. This laptop was a solid couple steps beyond most in terms of not being able to take it apart, to include MacBooks. I feel like that's super clear in the video?

 

So the fact they missed a hidden screw it's ok to label it as unfriendly to repair and upgrade and not even bother to find out if such claims are actually true or not?

No it's not super clear what's super clear is that they never bothered to prove their claims, show me where they proved their claims in the video, all they did was rip the backing off because of one screw and took out the SSD. They didn't look for the ram nothing. What part of that isn't super clear? All of it I guess?

 

3 hours ago, Jaesop said:

Both are unreasonable. There isn't a problem. Again, if you felt Linus was trustworthy before then there's really no practical reason to think he'll suddenly start tinting any and all Windows to support his investment. If you feel he isn't now, then you clearly didn't before.

 

Not for nothing dude, but what should we distrust in this video? What does he say here that's incorrect? Your big concern is that he notes that it's particularly hard to disassemble... a consistent complaint in anything difficult to disassemble.

 

Their 'reviews' are not reviews and should never be what someone depends on when buying a $2,000 laptop. They're fun little overviews of products, and the vast majority of people watching it have zero intention of buying one.

No both are not unreasonable, there is a problem, if you don't see a problem then that's on you. So you are saying you wouldn't have a biased opinion towards a company you heavily invest into in hopes it will succeed to ensure your investment repays itself? If you think that then you clearly haven't invested in a company as everyone wants their money to grow esp if they invest in it. So by saying what you said you are telling me if I or anyone else who has the cash to invest in a company that we would never have a urge to ensure our investment matures and pays out if we have the ability to help it to do so? Good to know that you know every human being on the planets personality (and completely disprove shows like The Dragons Den) and know that there is no way money can manipulate the way a person thinks or does things. The sad reality is money changes people, look at his videos 5+ years ago vs today not production value but quality of content, which provides more information which feels more reliable? His/LMGs trust has slowly diminished over time due to the fact their current ways is what brings in the money, you're blind if you can't see that.

 

The ending, the ending is the part he is potentially incorrect about, show me where the ram is on the laptop on the video, go on show me... Oh wait you can't. No my concern isn't the fact it's hard to disassemble, if one hidden screw makes it hard then never try working on a car, or a desktop computer for that matter. Once again show me where I'm wrong, all you have done is sided with him without proving anything, I know you won't because he literally provided nothing more than a hidden screw. Hidden screws are a common thing in the industry he should have known better, the fact he should have known better means he likely did it on purpose. Also after the hidden screw all he did after was remove the SSD nothing else, so how can you or Linus even claim the computer is even hard to disassemble? How can he claim it's not upgradable without showing proof? If you saw proof in the video show me the proof, because Linus sure as hell didn't in the video.

 

I agree on the first part, but that second part? No you are 100% wrong, there are many people who will see a video made by someone with millions of subscribers and take their claims as facts without double checking it (it's the stupid world we live in, and the last 1.5 years has proven that). If the cheaper recommendation in the middle/close to end of the video didn't sway them away the MS Surface the ending could have, it's not about buying the laptop it's actually the destructiveness of this video towards the laptops purchasability. Put yourself in MS's shoes watching this video, you know he has an interest in a laptop manufacture and the ending of this video was so carelessly done it could have legal implementations because Linus never confirmed his claims on screen all MS would have to prove in court is something can be upgraded and it was clearly careless and stupid of Linus not to think to look for another screw when the backing didn't come off but decided to use destructive force instead and claim it being unfriendly to users and it having no upgradable path. It's a fairly easy win for MS if they wanted to make a legal case of it assuming one thing can be upgraded.

 

So no he should just leave the laptop videos for his employees to do, this time was bad but the worst has yet to come if he keeps it up. Is he right about it not being upgradable? After a quick google search technically yes (but they still never showed proof of this), but equally he claimed no upgradability, technically speaking the SSD is upgradable and if you have the patience of anyone older than a 5 year old it's easily can be disassembled so therefore he was wrong, mostly right but also wrong.

 

His words exactly in the video: "you will never ever ever open it up and hope to put it back together with upgraded components"

So I guess him being able to remove the SSD disproves his own words. Yet you still feel like he's somehow creditable? The courts will see this possibly as a direct result of having an interest in another company if MS wanted to make it a thing because I'm sure past laptop teardowns have had hidden screws like the one in the Surface plus the fact he made a claim about how the laptop can't be upgraded at all when clearly the SSD can be therefore those claims false. I can't see that happening, but because it likely won't happen doesn't mean MS doesn't have a case against LMG, it just means it's not financially worth their time, yet. Today the best outcome for anyone going after LMG is not financial (tho legal fees can be reimbursed and those can get nasty on their own) but forcing Linus to lawfully step out of all laptop videos (maybe LMG as whole) similarly to how Elon is forbidden to talk about stocks on twitter and currently it's not worth pursuing for that reason.

 

If he wants to make a point about hidden screws in laptops MAKE A WHOLE VIDEO ABOUT IT, don't victimize one laptop for an industry thing that is just begging for issues.

[Jaesop]

On 10/15/2021 at 1:55 AM, Egg-Roll said:

So the fact they missed a hidden screw it's ok to label it as unfriendly to repair and upgrade and not even bother to find out if such claims are actually true or not?

...they did find out. It's difficult to take apart.

 

On 10/15/2021 at 1:55 AM, Egg-Roll said:

No both are not unreasonable, there is a problem, if you don't see a problem then that's on you.

"If you disagree with me that's on you!"

I... guess?

 

The rest of your comment is a massive ramble dude. I have to know everyone's personality on the planet? Good grief.

On 10/15/2021 at 1:55 AM, Egg-Roll said:

So I guess him being able to remove the SSD disproves his own words. Yet you still feel like he's somehow creditable?

lmao yes, I do not think he has lost all credibility because he pointed out a machine isn't intended for user modification

You clearly think otherwise, and have long before the Framework stuff. So why pretend that's your reasoning?

On 10/15/2021 at 1:55 AM, Egg-Roll said:

If he wants to make a point about hidden screws in laptops MAKE A WHOLE VIDEO ABOUT IT, don't victimize one laptop for an industry thing that is just begging for issues.

lmao dude what?

 

"He can't point out a FLAW in a LAPTOP unless he does A FULL VIDEO showing it on ANY LAPTOP THAT HAS IT"

 

Quote

His words exactly in the video: "you will never ever ever open it up and hope to put it back together with upgraded components"

So I guess him being able to remove the SSD disproves his own words.

I love how you wrote this after:

Quote

Is he right about it not being upgradable? After a quick google search technically yes

I'll end with this:

 

Quote

Put yourself in MS's shoes watching this video, you know he has an interest in a laptop manufacture and the ending of this video was so carelessly done it could have legal implementations because Linus never confirmed his claims on screen all MS would have to prove in court is something can be upgraded and it was clearly careless and stupid of Linus not to think to look for another screw when the backing didn't come off but decided to use destructive force instead and claim it being unfriendly to users and it having no upgradable path. It's a fairly easy win for MS if they wanted to make a legal case of it assuming one thing can be upgraded.

That is not an 'easy win', because it would never be a lawsuit. An actual error in a review is not something people can reasonably be sued over.

You are very confident in your legal knowledge which is unfortunate because your massive run on sentence demonstrates it's not quite up to par.

[Egg-Roll]

25 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

...they did find out. It's difficult to take apart.

 

By acting like 5 years old sure. Like I said if they spent a few minutes troubleshooting like adults they wouldn't have broken anything.

 

25 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

lmao yes, I do not think he has lost all credibility because he pointed out a machine isn't intended for user modification

You clearly think otherwise, and have long before the Framework stuff. So why pretend that's your reasoning?

Remove a bunch of screws including that one stupid hidden one and wouldn't you know it at least one part of the computer is upgradable.

How hard is that to figure out? The point is a single aspect at least of that computer is upgradable, advisable? Maybe not so much but considering it's a MS product a USB windows key should work just fine... Hence upgradable.

 

25 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

"He can't point out a FLAW in a LAPTOP unless he does A FULL VIDEO showing it on ANY LAPTOP THAT HAS IT"

 

It's not a flaw for a single laptop, look at page one...

 

25 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

I love how you wrote this after:

 

YES! Exactly my point the fact Linus failed to mention anything about that is my point was it too much for him to explain why the main parts outside of the SSD can't be upgraded? Were they so pressed for time they couldn't add those few simple words?

 

25 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

That is not an 'easy win', because it would never be a lawsuit. An actual error in a review is not something people can reasonably be sued over.

You are very confident in your legal knowledge which is unfortunate because your massive run on sentence demonstrates it's not quite up to par.

Oh boy are you wrong, you can get sued over anything including something completely stupid and lose to it.

It's a run-on sentence sure but it's not as stupid as you might thing. People have been sued, threatened etc over reviews, and in some cases like the one Linus has put himself in they have a good chance to win if they so wished. Like I said right now the only thing they likely can accomplish is by demanding him or LMG to stop making reviews for laptops, which is hardly worth MS's time and money. 

 

FYI It's not an error if you have an interest in a company that competes in the same sector. Why do you think car commercials have their competitors logos removed in their ads?

 

Also care to prove me wrong? Because you still failed to show me the proof Linus showing in the video on how the laptop is unupgradable... So I don't have much hope on you proving me wrong here, just whining about stuff while claiming I know nothing all the while not proving anything.