Apple Clarifies New iPhone Child-Protection Features

[Distinctly Average]

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Absolutely not,  personal device means the device is mine, the data on it belongs to me  and I get to chose what happens to that data (within existing laws).  Claiming once you go online that you have no right to privacy or control over what happens on your device is like claiming once you drive on the road your car should be open for anyone to look inside.    
 

I agree it should be. Look at just how tied we are to an M$ account, have subscription apps, online backup etc. Interesting analogy to cars especially as many new cars such as Tesla, VW group, BMW and more have connected services, OTS upgrades and diagnostics etc. You can even track them through your app so I am damn sure the manufacturer is too. That is akin to them looking inside,

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

We already have laws in place that mean in order to be charged with copyright infringement they need proof,  they can't just demand to look at the contents of your device "just in case" you do. The same goes with this, my phone my device and I don't appreciate companies thinking they can just start scanning whatever they want "just in case" I might be breaking a law.

I am probably a bit salty at the moment. As a photographer who has loads of my images used without my permission it does tend to leave a sour taste, especially when those third parties are making money from my work. I can instantly find out who those people are but cannot take any action on 98% of them.

 

 

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

EDIT: although I should say that it's probably wise to treat any internet connected device as potentially no longer personal.  But we shouldn't lay down and let that be considered normal practice.

 

Totally agree.

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

That's fine once it is uploaded to a web service,  once you do that you are at the mercy of the terms and conditions of said service.  But we aren't talking about what happens after you upload something, we are talking about it happening on the device beforehand.  Which is both unnecessary for the purpose they purport to be doing it for and (as I said before) sets a precedent for the next data set they want to start scanning.

 

In the case of Apple, it is only scanned if you are uploading. Yes, it is scanned on your device but according to the details, only if you have iCloud enabled. Having said that it is quite hard to use an Apple device without iCloud enabled.
 

Again, I am not arguing for or against, just interested in how and why.

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

 

Just for clarification,  "Personal" in tech terms originally was defined as a computational device that could be operated by one person.   A personal computer was a computer that is operated by one person.  Over the decades personal computer simply came to mean a device that I exclusively own and use at my discretion.   I would argue that with the coming of the internet and the obvious steps OS makers have gone to to include security services like OS accounts, Private browsing in browsers, VPN and security software like encryption etc, not too mention the need for a TPM in windows 11,  that it is largely accepted that a personal device is exactly that, personal,  it is something the owner should have total control over.

 

In control as far as you can within the realms of a modern OS. Back in the Z80/8080/6502/68000 days you did have a lot more control and in most cases could control the hardware directly avoiding the OS completely. Times have changed substantially. I would argue we have gone past the idea of personal, as difficult as that may be to swallow. We are now at a point where even your smart fridge has lots of power but is mostly out of your own control. All that is despite new tech to try and retain the privacy myth. Whatever new tech comes along to increase privacy, another will arrive to snatch it away.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

I agree it should be. Look at just how tied we are to an M$ account, have subscription apps, online backup etc. Interesting analogy to cars especially as many new cars such as Tesla, VW group, BMW and more have connected services, OTS upgrades and diagnostics etc. You can even track them through your app so I am damn sure the manufacturer is too. That is akin to them looking inside,

And soimething we should be actively discouraging rather than accepting,  however we need to be able to seperate usefull tech (like being able to track and disable a stolen car for eg) from privacy issues.

3 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

I am probably a bit salty at the moment. As a photographer who has loads of my images used without my permission it does tend to leave a sour taste, especially when those third parties are making money from my work. I can instantly find out who those people are but cannot take any action on 98% of them.

 

I understand this, I am a big supporter of copyright laws, but I acknowledge the system isn't perfect and people still get to take your work unfairly.   It is one of the reasons I have not gone into the arts as a career,  I am happy to do sound work and produce music for others, but I will not put my work out there only to be stolen. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

 

In the case of Apple, it is only scanned if you are uploading. Yes, it is scanned on your device but according to the details, only if you have iCloud enabled. Having said that it is quite hard to use an Apple device without iCloud enabled.
 

I understand that, my point is that on device scanning is unnecessary as it can be scanned once uploaded instead and that doing it on the device enables an argument for other scans to be on the device later on.  It's a bit of a slippery slope argument I'll grant, however given the lack of substantial reasoning behind why it needs to be on the device,  I cannot think of a another reason.

3 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

 

In control as far as you can within the realms of a modern OS. Back in the Z80/8080/6502/68000 days you did have a lot more control and in most cases could control the hardware directly avoiding the OS completely. Times have changed substantially. I would argue we have gone past the idea of personal, as difficult as that may be to swallow. We are now at a point where even your smart fridge has lots of power but is mostly out of your own control. All that is despite new tech to try and retain the privacy myth. Whatever new tech comes along to increase privacy, another will arrive to snatch it away.

More reason why we should be concerned and actively doing something about it.  I am not happy to lay down and accept it as standard practice.   I appreciate the security and benefits it brings, but the idea that my data is not my data does not sit well with me at all.    I do appreciate it is easier for people to port all their messages, contacts media etc to a new phone or retrieve it when they lose an old phone, but that sort of services should come for a $ value cost instead of only a data privacy cost.   

 

 

[Kisai]

https://github.com/AsuharietYgvar/AppleNeuralHash2ONNX

 

Well, that was quick.

 

Quote

Early tests show that it can tolerate image resizing and compression, but not cropping or rotations.

This was inevitable. That's the same thing that happens with steganography in images.

[RejZoR]

Stops them nothing from flipping or mirroring an image and comparing it then.