Windows on M1 Mac?

[theereal]

Im starting my Bachelors degree in IT and im doing Front-End/Back-End developement alongside software developement for Android and IOS.

The school says both Windows and MacOS are needed. Windows for basically everything and then MacOS for IOS developement.

So i was wondering what my best option buying a laptop would be cause id rather not buy an expensive Windows laptop and then an expensive Macbook aswell

 

They recommend a Mac with a partition of Windows on the drive, but is that even possible with M1? Can i partition MacOS on a Windows laptop instead?

I know Windows can run in parralells, but will i be able to use Windows software (through emulation ofcourse) to its full potential and save files and programs and code and whatnot (lot of ands) if i use Windows 10 through parrallels on my M1 Mac?

 

(also a bonus question thats not really relevant to the subforum: but based on what im going to be using the laptop for, if Windows is the way to go should i get a GPU? (i wont be gaming on the laptop) or just a really good CPU and rely on integrated graphics?)

 

Any feedback is greatly appriciated!

[igormp]

4 minutes ago, theereal said:

They recommend a Mac with a partition of Windows on the drive, but is that even possible with M1?

No, bootcamp is not available for the M1 yet, since there's no official version of windows for arm for end users.

 

Do you know which software you'll be using? It likely runs native on the M1 (and probably even better than on windows) without problems.

 

6 minutes ago, theereal said:

if Windows is the way to go should i get a GPU? (i wont be gaming on the laptop) or just a really good CPU and rely on integrated graphics?)

No, you're better getting a laptop without less, less headaches, lighter and better battery life.

[Brooksie359]

I would probably get a MacBook with an Intel cpu if possible. Not sure if they still sell them as I know they have been slowing replacing all the skus with m1 versions. 

[theereal]

21 minutes ago, igormp said:

No, bootcamp is not available for the M1 yet, since there's no official version of windows for arm for end users.

 

Do you know which software you'll be using? It likely runs native on the M1 (and probably even better than on windows) without problems.

 

No, you're better getting a laptop without less, less headaches, lighter and better battery life.

Im not certain of the exact software ill be using. I have an appointment with my guidance councelor scheduled for the day after tomorrow. Would it be okay if i messaged you back then when i know more? Do you personally recommend getting a Macbook?

[Electronics Wizardy]

I have a m1 mac book pro

 

Great laptop.

 

Can't run windows on the hardware(or its not supported or close to supported currently)

 

Vms should work for most uses for class(should be able to get most classes just fine with a vm, worst case use schools computers)

 

Id stay away from a intel mac as apple seems to be moving away from them somewhat fast.

[igormp]

Just now, theereal said:

Im not certain of the exact software ill be using. I have an appointment with my guidance councelor scheduled for the day after tomorrow. Would it be okay if i messaged you back then when i know more? 

Sure! Feel free to PM me (or other means if you need a faster answer from me).

 

1 minute ago, theereal said:

Do you personally recommend getting a Macbook?

I'm more of a linux guy, but I'd rather recommend a macbook as a dev machine rather than a windows laptop, it gives you a native unix environment and most tools should work flawlessly.

[BondiBlue]

26 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I would probably get a MacBook with an Intel cpu if possible. Not sure if they still sell them as I know they have been slowing replacing all the skus with m1 versions. 

They do, but they're not a good option for most people. I wouldn't suggest buying one, especially not a 16".

[Chris Pratt]

1 hour ago, igormp said:

I'm more of a linux guy, but I'd rather recommend a macbook as a dev machine rather than a windows laptop, it gives you a native unix environment and most tools should work flawlessly.

You have that on Windows as well now with WSL.

[DogKnight]

An Intel based MacBook would be the way to go so you could run both OS's on the same device. 

There isn't many other alternatives unfortunately. 

 

Otherwise, you could just buy the cheapest M1 mac you could find and invest in a Windows based laptop to spec. Then when the coursework is done with the Mac side of things, sell off the macbook. 

[igormp]

40 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

You have that on Windows as well now with WSL.

That's why I said "native unix environment".

 

WSL is still a worse experience than having the native stuff.

[Chris Pratt]

7 hours ago, igormp said:

That's why I said "native unix environment".

 

WSL is still a worse experience than having the native stuff.

It is native. It's literally a Linux distro running in a container. I'm not sure what you think is "worse" about it, but that's simply not the case. If anything, it's better, since you can work across filesystems, opening up Linux files in Windows apps or operating on the Windows filesystem with Linux CLI.

[igormp]

2 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

It's literally a Linux distro running in a container.

It's a VM.

2 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

since you can work across filesystems, opening up Linux files in Windows apps or operating on the Windows filesystem with Linux CLI.

All of those actually create tons of issues, ranging from really silly stuff (like renaming a file on WSL breaking it on the windows side, or the lack of permissions on NTFS) to more troublesome ones (like drivers).

[Chris Pratt]

12 minutes ago, igormp said:

It's a VM.

WSL itself is a VM. The distros are run as containers.

 

13 minutes ago, igormp said:

All of those actually create tons of issues, ranging from really silly stuff (like renaming a file on WSL breaking it on the windows side, or the lack of permissions on NTFS) to more troublesome ones (like drivers).

You can screw anything up if you try hard enough. The issues you're discussing were growing pains in WSL1, and really aren't problematic any more now in WSL2. I use this stuff every day to do my job.

 

[igormp]

2 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

WSL itself is a VM. The distros are run as containers.

Can you provide any sources for that? 

From what I've seen, I believe you're mistaking the Hyper-V container (a micro, lightweight version of hyper-v) with the userspace itself. The linux userspace that WSL uses, AFAIK, is not a container and has full blown access to the kernel. MS has a pretty neat deep dive that you can watch: 

 

(the wsl2 arch is presented at around the 30 minutes mark)

 

2 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

You can screw anything up if you try hard enough. The issues you're discussing were growing pains in WSL1, and really aren't problematic any more now in WSL2. I use this stuff every day to do my job.

Well, I've had my share of problems with WSL2 too, but this isn't about us anyway.

 

OP seems to be leaning towards a M1 Mac, which has no real competitor build-wise, performance-wise and battery life-wise at the same price point at the moment (even though I'd never buy one because I simply can't stand macos).

The macos environment should be able to run everything OP needs without problems (that's until OP gives us the specific details on what they'll be working on), so there's no need to even care about WSL. 

[Just that Mario]

Out of curiosity, which University has an IT Bachelor's system that focuses only on Web and app development?

[theereal]

On 7/31/2021 at 2:37 PM, Just that Mario said:

Out of curiosity, which University has an IT Bachelor's system that focuses only on Web and app development?

Im from Norway and no, Universitys do not directly give courses in these exact subjects. Its a different type of institution in Norway thats not really comparable to College, but not either comparable to University. Its kind of lodged between the two, and is very common here because University in Norway are usually theory and not practice based, atleast moreso. Theyre common for people getting Bachelors degrees and Masters degrees in specific subjects like Economics and whatnot.

[theereal]

On 7/29/2021 at 1:37 AM, igormp said:

No, bootcamp is not available for the M1 yet, since there's no official version of windows for arm for end users.

 

Do you know which software you'll be using? It likely runs native on the M1 (and probably even better than on windows) without problems.

 

No, you're better getting a laptop without less, less headaches, lighter and better battery life.

So ive talked to my guidance councelor and he did not specify which software will be used exactly because he said theres "alot of it". Which i feel like is a poor reply but whatever... He said that the only software that is required to have MacOS for is IOS programming, but that other courses may require MacOS based on the individual teachers pick of software. And considering bootcamp is not a thing with Mac anymore i might have to get both machines wont i?

[igormp]

7 hours ago, theereal said:

So ive talked to my guidance councelor and he did not specify which software will be used exactly because he said theres "alot of it". Which i feel like is a poor reply but whatever... He said that the only software that is required to have MacOS for is IOS programming, but that other courses may require MacOS based on the individual teachers pick of software. And considering bootcamp is not a thing with Mac anymore i might have to get both machines wont i?

Well, I tried to think really hard in a case where you'd really need a x86 laptop during your graduation, and the only thing that comes to mind is any computer architecture class or any other class where you'll need to deal with FPGA tools (which only support x86 windows and linux), so if you could check out your syllabus and see if there's anything like that it'd be helpful.

Another thing that I can think of is some class requiring you to use Visual Studio (the full blown IDE, not VSCode), but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that.

 

Other than that, you should be able to do everything on a M1, I'd say that there's no need for 2 machines.

[Just that Mario]

7 hours ago, igormp said:

Well, I tried to think really hard in a case where you'd really need a x86 laptop during your graduation, and the only thing that comes to mind is any computer architecture class or any other class where you'll need to deal with FPGA tools (which only support x86 windows and linux), so if you could check out your syllabus and see if there's anything like that it'd be helpful.

Another thing that I can think of is some class requiring you to use Visual Studio (the full blown IDE, not VSCode), but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that.

 

Other than that, you should be able to do everything on a M1, I'd say that there's no need for 2 machines.

If I am correct in what OP is studdying, I am quite certain he will not need FPGA. At least similar institutions don't ever go as deep and broad as universities. First time I hear such institutes give any kind of legitimate degrees (Bachelor's, Master's). They're sort of like trade school. But yeah, idk really what the curricilum will be, but I'd worry about a Windows based system when it is actually needed and if it is, I am certain the school is capable of providing one. At least university I went to ALWAYS had hardware to provide. All work was intended to be done on school's hardware. Everyone had their own virtual hard drive they could access with their credentials. Use of personal systems was optional.

[theereal]

16 hours ago, Just that Mario said:

If I am correct in what OP is studdying, I am quite certain he will not need FPGA. At least similar institutions don't ever go as deep and broad as universities. First time I hear such institutes give any kind of legitimate degrees (Bachelor's, Master's). They're sort of like trade school. But yeah, idk really what the curricilum will be, but I'd worry about a Windows based system when it is actually needed and if it is, I am certain the school is capable of providing one. At least university I went to ALWAYS had hardware to provide. All work was intended to be done on school's hardware. Everyone had their own virtual hard drive they could access with their credentials. Use of personal systems was optional.

I did some research since you asked about the type of school haha  Its not a trade school, we have those in Norway aswell. After youve finished 10 years of mandatory school in Norway you can go onto either "Specialized Studies" or "Trade School". Trade Schools do not offer Bachelors Degrees and you have to choose "Specialized Studies" to be eligible to enter either a University or a "Høyskole" which in the US is known as "University College" apperantly. Both "Trade Schools" & "Specialized Studies" require 3 years after the 10 years that are mandatory and once those are finished you can apply for a "University College" or "University". Both of these types of schools in Norway offer Bachelors, Masters and PHD degrees within their fields. Most people in Norway dont actually attend Universities but rather University Colleges and the most sought after one is the one specializing in Economics and its known as the "Norwegian School of Economics" or "Norges Handelshøyskole".

[theereal]

On 8/1/2021 at 11:03 PM, igormp said:

Well, I tried to think really hard in a case where you'd really need a x86 laptop during your graduation, and the only thing that comes to mind is any computer architecture class or any other class where you'll need to deal with FPGA tools (which only support x86 windows and linux), so if you could check out your syllabus and see if there's anything like that it'd be helpful.

Another thing that I can think of is some class requiring you to use Visual Studio (the full blown IDE, not VSCode), but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that.

 

Other than that, you should be able to do everything on a M1, I'd say that there's no need for 2 machines.

So most Windows software can be emulated on the Mac? Will i be able to use all Windows software including saving files and whatnot if i use parallels? Sorry for the dumb and repetitive questions haha

 

Ive listed the different courses, their names are in Norwegian but ill attempt to translate their names as accurately as possible to give you an idea of what were going to be doing

 

First Semester:

-Databases

-Digital Technology

-Introduction to Programming

-Creative Project

 

Second Semeseter:

-Computer Security (Cyber Security)

-Object Oriented Programming

-Visual Analytics

 

Third Semester:

-Android Programming

-Interaction Design 1

-Web Developement

 

Fourth Semester:

-Agile Project

-Free choice of subjects or exchange semester

 

Fifth Semester:

-IOS Programming

-Cross Platform

-Agile Project

-Research Methods

 

Sixth Semester:

-Bachelor Project

[igormp]

3 hours ago, theereal said:

So most Windows software can be emulated on the Mac? Will i be able to use all Windows software including saving files and whatnot if i use parallels? Sorry for the dumb and repetitive questions haha

NO. What I meant is that you'll be able to run most stuff natively, without the need for emulation or any other translation layer. Worst case scenario, you'll need to rely on rosetta for some proprietary stuff.

 

3 hours ago, theereal said:

First Semester:

-Databases

-Digital Technology

-Introduction to Programming

-Creative Project

 

Second Semeseter:

-Computer Security (Cyber Security)

-Object Oriented Programming

-Visual Analytics

 

Third Semester:

-Android Programming

-Interaction Design 1

-Web Developement

 

Fourth Semester:

-Agile Project

-Free choice of subjects or exchange semester

 

Fifth Semester:

-IOS Programming

-Cross Platform

-Agile Project

-Research Methods

 

Sixth Semester:

-Bachelor Project

Most (if not all) of those should be doable without any problems on a M1 Mac.

[GoodBytes]

@igormp

The majority of people at work uses Windows with WSL2.

No issues. It is a solid reliable tool for developers.

It is not a "Wrost experience" as you claim. This is just false. WSL1 sure... but not WSL2.

And unlike a VM, it doesn't reserve system RAM, and startup instantly.  In addition, it cross executes Windows applications.

I can do under

$: explorer.exe .

And it will open file explorer in the Linux directory. I can use Notepad, VS Code, and any other Windows application with Linux.

 

It is immensely powerful, and you should be using it before commenting, as clearly, you have not...

[GoodBytes]

[update]

Ignore post, I miss read the OP post. Sorry.

iOS dev required an Apple computer.

 

I left my post bellow for anyone else in similar shoes where iOS dev isn't a requirement

[/update]

 

Personally, I would say look at the Surface Pro (Intel). When I did my degree, it was hugely helpful, as I could do all my classes, with it.

Coding, writing notes thanks to the digitize pen (math class, algorithm class, and draw any diagram), type my notes for other classes, and code. System was powerful enough to handle everything. And now you have WSL2 for any Linux needs (GUI support coming, as well, at the end of the year).

 

In my time I used a Surface Pro 3 (WSL wasn't a thing, though, but wasn't a problem, 99% of the time it was all OS agnostic).  So of course, that was ages ago, and now the system is not only significantly more powerful but comes equipped with a quad core CPU.

 

Device is compact and light and packs a nice battery life for every day. The magnetic connector is a big plug if you need to bring your charger for those long days. Someone trips on the cable, and your device won't be flying away.

 

I only have 2 complains:

• If your university has these desk with a little tablet that can't even fit a piece of paper to write notes and you want to type them instead of writing them, then the footprint of the device will be an issue due to the kickstand. A laptop can be large and still hold fine.
• The device is not great when used on the lap. It's not impossible, it does the job, but not great.

 

[igormp]

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

it doesn't reserve system RAM

It does, even though it's dynamic. If you wanna insist on that, I can look into MS' official docs for that.

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It is immensely powerful, and you should be using it before commenting, as clearly, you have not...

I did, both WSL1 and WSL2 and had my share of issues. I even managed to get a regular mainline kernel running under it with MS' patches, which turns out to be quite easy 

 

9 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Personally, I would say look at the Surface Pro (Intel). When I did my degree, it was hugely helpful, as I could do all my classes, with it.

Coding, writing notes thanks to the digitize pen (math class, algorithm class, and draw any diagram), type my notes for other classes, and code. System was powerful enough to handle everything. And now you have WSL2 for any Linux needs (GUI support coming, as well, at the end of the year).

 

In my time I used a Surface Pro 3 (WSL wasn't a thing, though, but wasn't a problem, 99% of the time it was all OS agnostic).  So of course, that was ages ago, and now the system is not only significantly more powerful but comes equipped with a quad core CPU.

 

Device is compact and light and packs a nice battery life for every day. The magnetic connector is a big plug if you need to bring your charger for those long days. Someone trips on the cable, and your device won't be flying away.

 

I only have 2 complains:

• If your university has these desk with a little tablet that can't even fit a piece of paper to write notes and you want to type them instead of writing them, then the footprint of the device will be an issue due to the kickstand. A laptop can be large and still hold fine.
• The device is not great when used on the lap. It's not impossible, it does the job, but not great.

 

OP NEEDS to have a Mac anyway, so instead of having 2 laptops, why not just got for a single M1 Mac?