Linus says DropBox can't see your files...

[MichaelDR]

What makes Linus think DropBox can't view your files?
DropBox has full access to the files you upload; it is NOT zero knowledge.
All it takes is for them to make one dumb mistake and all of your private (not illegal) files are open to the public, like what happened in 2011.

[Akolyte]

Dropbox actually changed their privacy policy a few years back, which did mean that they could see your files.  

 

Just because files are encrypted, does not mean that they are not visible to the hosting platform.  They are managing the encryption keys, and you trust them with that responsibility., 

 

The only way to get around this while maintaining some level of convinience is to use a service like BoxCryptor (or an alternative) which can encrypt your files before they are uploaded into the cloud, and even though you may not completley manage your own keys, it means all of your eggs are not in a single basket. 

 

Some cloud storage platforms also allow you to just manage your own keys off the bat, so worthwhile choosing those if you want a secure place to store your files. 

[MichaelDR]

Yeah, Boxcryptor is good, but it's like 50$ a year or something.  Cryptomator is FOSS and I believe does about the same thing.

Linux has FScrypt now, which is the default file-based encryption software counterpart to DMcrypt, although I'm not sure how tricky it would be to unmount it and get that up and running with a cloud provider, so I'd say just use Cryptomator for that.

The real problem here is that if DropBox gets hacked or make a mistake ALL OF YOUR DATA IS STOLEN.  That is a big, BIG, deal.

[Forbidden Wafer]

TL;DR: cloud providers are just an additional backup layer. Do not trust them.

 

Google, for example, is infamous for kicking people out of their accounts and being super hard to restore the access to the account. Terraria dev is a notorious example.

[kirashi]

1 hour ago, MichaelDR said:

The real problem here is that if [service you don't control] gets hacked or make a mistake ALL OF YOUR DATA IS STOLEN.  That is a big, BIG, deal.

Fixed that for you because it's not limited to just Dropbox - all data stored on third-party software services or hardware devices that one cannot review the source code for should be assumed compromised.

 

The only way to avoid this is to encrypt everything using encryption software built from source code reviewed by yourself prior to the data ever leaving a device with hardware and software you've also reviewed the source code for. Unfortunately, this is nearly impossible unless you physically fabricated and wrote the source code of everything that makes up the device you're using, from the individual integrated circuits to the source code running on the BIOS chip itself, because if you can't review what the code is doing, you cannot trust it...

 

All of that being said, it's up to each individual user to decide whether they trust the software service or hardware device they're using with their data. I'm personally happy with Dropbox's paid tier as a cloud storage solution that works for me, even though I cannot see the underlying source code that makes up their infrastructure and thus am unable to determine for sure whether or not my data can only be accessed by me. Most people are okay with this risk, otherwise they wouldn't be signing up for these services en-masse.

[LinusTech]

Thanks for the clarification

[Arika]

9 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Fixed that for you because it's not limited to just Dropbox - all data stored on third-party software services or hardware devices that one cannot review the source code for should be assumed compromised.

This is part of the reason why all my backup and data storage is local. i don't like knowing that my data could just disappear if the service decides to shut down, or is the target of a data breach, because they hold a lot of people's data, they are a bigger target than my own network.

[kirashi]

Just now, Arika S said:

This is part of the reason why all my backup and data storage is local. i don't like knowing that my data could just disappear if the service decides to shut down, or is the target of a data breach, because they hold a lot of people's data, they are a bigger target than my own network.

Exactly. It's just good practice to ensure anything you can't easily re-create or download again is backed up anyway by following the 3-2-1 Backup (or another similar) method. I operate similarly to you, keeping both cloud and local copies of important files like tax documents, family photos, and application installers for age-old software, because you never know how long a given service is going to be around.

[MichaelDR]

19 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Fixed that for you because it's not limited to just Dropbox - all data stored on third-party software services or hardware devices that one cannot review the source code for should be assumed compromised. The only way to avoid this is to encrypt everything using encryption software built from source code reviewed by yourself prior to the data ever leaving a device with hardware and software you've also reviewed the source code for. Unfortunately, this is nearly impossible unless you physically fabricated and wrote the source code of everything that makes up the device you're using, from the individual integrated circuits to the source code running on the BIOS chip itself, because if you can't review what the code is doing, you cannot trust it...

A folder shared with colleagues using Syncthing probably is safer than DropBox.  Sure, you could use only open source hardware, switch to Gentoo, and review the source code of everything before you compile it... But that's not what I'm saying.  Nothing is 100% secure, but that isn't an excuse to run an Windows 98 in 2021.
 

 

13 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Thanks for the clarification

Assuming DropBox switched to client side, zero knowledge encryption does SEEM like what they WOULD do.  I believe Mega does that.  Not doing it seems kind of strange.

 

I think the reason they haven't is so they can optimize storage costs by not storing duplicates of files between users, maybe.  Also so people don't forget their password and lose their stuff, etc.   I believe what protects them from legal liability is Section 230, not so much the zero knowledge stuff.