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Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-gay marriage controversy

colonel_mortis
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Do you even have any idea what you are suggesting here?

He is suggesting that the majority of the U.S. supports gay marriage. Which is correct. You must be pretty deep in the south.

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Do you even have any idea what you are suggesting here?

He is suggesting that the majority of the U.S. supports gay marriage. Which is correct. You must be pretty deep in the south.

That's... not what I read that as. 

I believe he was talking about the implication that people who don't agree with the majority should be driven away. Akin to "Hey, let's take all the anti-gay people and throw them out of the country." I kinda went "orly" at that myself but didn't bother to reply to it because I've talked with beebskadoo enough to believe that's not what he meant by it.

† Christian Member †

For my pertinent links to guides, reviews, and anything similar, go here, and look under the spoiler labeled such. A brief history of Unix and it's relation to OS X by Builder.

 

 

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I disagree. Apparently I've either figured out something other people haven't (i.e. I'm right, you are wrong), or was born with some gene that lets me do something you can't (i.e You are right and I'm wrong, but I'm an exception to your experience). 

I believe the former because I don't believe I'm so lucky.

 

Many people have likely done this before me.

This is the internet. Short of me videoing the various acts, I see no purpose in this as I can't prove it was done.

If it's any consolation, I've been closer to sex with a man than a woman. 

Take your pick with why that's not happening.

 

If you don't accept it, of course it does. 

There's a difference between choosing to deny desires and choosing to accept your choice to deny said desires. Like you said, it's more complicated than strictly saying no. I never intended to make it sound simple. I only intended to say that it can be done. 

If what is on the internet can be believed, I've ventured into dark corners of the internet where people claim to be able to be sexually attracted to anything based on thinking about those things erotically over time while killing those feelings toward other things. Which makes perfect sense considering humans are animals in terms of their most base desires.

 

I disagree because of the above.

 

And I believe that's because they can't accept such a change. 

I do similar things with other, less "taboo" aspects of my life. I doubt it's different because they are both based on desires.

Why would you deny your nature in the first place?

What 2 consensual adults do together is not a big deal.

 

Yes Humans are animals, and there are members of animals species (some of our closest relatives) that portray strong sometimes only homosexual behavior.

 

It's not the fact that you can not accept such a change, it is the fact that you CAN NOT CHANGE YOUR BIOLOGY!

 

There are indeed people who switch, but that is because they (like a large majority of people) exist on the Bi-Sexual Continuum. It happens and it is not something you can change, so why is it so important to CHOOSE otherwise?

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That's... not what I read that as. 

I believe he was talking about the implication that people who don't agree with the majority should be driven away. Akin to "Hey, let's take all the anti-gay people and throw them out of the country." I kinda went "orly" at that myself but didn't bother to reply to it because I've talked with beebskadoo enough to believe that's not what he meant by it.

Well its more like "people who go against the vast majority can make the company they represent look worse." Then StingBull said "Do you even know what you're inmplying here" to see if he actually meant that pro-gay marriage is actually the majority. Which nowadays, it is. Except in/below the bible-belt.

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Why would you deny your nature in the first place?

What 2 consensual adults do together is not a big deal.

 

Yes Humans are animals, and there are members of animals species (some of our closest relatives) that portray strong sometimes only homosexual behavior.

 

It's not the fact that you can not accept such a change, it is the fact that you CAN NOT CHANGE YOUR BIOLOGY!

 

There are indeed people who switch, but that is because they (like a large majority of people) exist on the Bi-Sexual Continuum. It happens and it is not something you can change, so why is it so important to CHOOSE otherwise?

You're already too far into this. It's not my nature. It's not your nature. You've already brought it past the "I can't change it." bit, so I'm assuming you accept that you can and that that is a bad excuse for why you wouldn't. I'm sorry bro, but that I won't budge on unless some scientist can slap me in the face with a proof of how it is literally impossible for humans to change sexuality.

That bit (the "why do you even care what two people do in private?" one) also gets on my nerves. Society is built from individuals. What happens in private affects public matters in some shape or another. Whether it's negative or positive, I don't care. Don't argue that it's irrelevant to me. It's just as irrelevant to me as a druggie getting high is. i.e. It isn't. I'm certainly not for all-the-time surveillance, but issues brought to the public's concern must be considered by the public.

 

And? Animals can be trained for certain behaviors. You are only helping my case here that you can actually change if done so in the right way. To be fair, for a human to experience a certain emotion towards something, the only one that can train them is themselves (the whole "they have to accept it" thing from earlier), but regardless, I say it's possible. It'd be hard to test as a scientist since it's an entirely internal process and getting cooperation for it would be next to impossible to verify (people are fickle), but you get the idea.

... ? Define "biology". Are you saying that I cannot change which chemicals are released into my blood stream in response to certain events I experience? Because I disagree. I also entirely disagree that it is biologically hard coded into your DNA.

As you said, sexuality is complicated. I believe it has just as much to do with your mentality as your environment. A person's mentality is also complicated. And I believe that it is entirely possible that the ones who don't believe it's a choice do so because they are locked into believing they are [insert thing].

But the problem is the evidence for that, for them, is their life experience. Which is inevitably a chicken/egg problem. Which came first? The belief that they are what they say they are (i.e. their belief caused the reinforcement making it irrelevant), or the reinforcement for that belief (i.e. their belief is founded in evidence they found before it was there)?

I entirely agree that you can flip that on me (i.e. Part of why I believe it's possible to change is because I have done it with my desires, including erotic ones though I have other reasons), but then we get no where because I'm the one who brought it up. 

I never said it was important to choose otherwise. I've intentionally left that whole thing out of this.

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For my pertinent links to guides, reviews, and anything similar, go here, and look under the spoiler labeled such. A brief history of Unix and it's relation to OS X by Builder.

 

 

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You're already too far into this. It's not my nature. It's not your nature. You've already brought it past the "I can't change it." bit, so I'm assuming you accept that you can and that that is a bad excuse for why you wouldn't. I'm sorry bro, but that I won't budge on unless some scientist can slap me in the face with a proof of how it is literally impossible for humans to change sexuality.

That bit (the "why do you even care what two people do in private?" one) also gets on my nerves. Society is built from individuals. What happens in private affects public matters in some shape or another. Whether it's negative or positive, I don't care. Don't argue that it's irrelevant to me. It's just as irrelevant to me as a druggie getting high is. i.e. It isn't. I'm certainly not for all-the-time surveillance, but issues brought to the public's concern must be considered by the public.

And? Animals can be trained for certain behaviors. You are only helping my case here that you can actually change if done so in the right way. To be fair, for a human to experience a certain emotion towards something, the only one that can train them is themselves (the whole "they have to accept it" thing from earlier), but regardless, I say it's possible. It'd be hard to test as a scientist since it's an entirely internal process and getting cooperation for it would be next to impossible to verify (people are fickle), but you get the idea.

... ? Define "biology". Are you saying that I cannot change which chemicals are released into my blood stream in response to certain events I experience? Because I disagree. I also entirely disagree that it is biologically hard coded into your DNA.

As you said, sexuality is complicated. I believe it has just as much to do with your mentality as your environment. A person's mentality is also complicated. And I believe that it is entirely possible that the ones who don't believe it's a choice do so because they are locked into believing they are [insert thing].

But the problem is the evidence for that, for them, is their life experience. Which is inevitably a chicken/egg problem. Which came first? The belief that they are what they say they are (i.e. their belief caused the reinforcement making it irrelevant), or the reinforcement for that belief (i.e. their belief is founded in evidence they found before it was there)?

I entirely agree that you can flip that on me (i.e. Part of why I believe it's possible to change is because I have done it with my desires, including erotic ones though I have other reasons), but then we get no where because I'm the one who brought it up. 

I never said it was important to choose otherwise. I've intentionally left that whole thing out of this.

I really find it interesting that you demand scientific evidence for this certain subject but downright reject it in others. Bit of a double standard if you ask me and it makes it difficult to debate someone who seems to change that side of things to support an argument. Not meant to sound ad hominem.

 

Here are a few peer reviewed studies on Homosexuality

Here

 

These aren't trained animals, they are wild animals.

Homosexual / Transgender Behavior Observed in 478 Species
  1. Acanthocephalan Worms
  2. Acorn Woodpecker
  3. Adelie Penguin
  4. African Buffalo
  5. African Elephant
  6. Agile Wallaby
  7. Alfalfa Weevil
  8. Amazon Molly
  9. Amazon River Dolphin
  10. American Bison
  11. Anna's Humminbird
  12. Anole sp.
  13. Aoudad
  14. Aperea
  15. Appalachian Woodland Salamander
  16. Asiatic Elephant
  17. Asiatic Mouflon
  18. Atlantic Spotted Dolphin
  19. Australian Parasitic Wasp sp.
  20. Australian Sea Lion
  21. Australian Shelduck
  22. Aztec Parakeet
  23. Bank Swallow
  24. Barasingha
  25. Barbary Sheep
  26. Barn Owl
  1. Bean Weevil sp.
  2. Bedbug and other Bug spp.
  3. Beluga
  4. Bangalese Finch (Domestic)
  5. Bezoar
  6. Bharal
  7. Bicolored Antbird
  8. Bighorn Sheep
  9. Black Bear
  10. Black-billed Magpie
  11. Blackbuck
  12. Black-crowned Night Heron
  13. Black-footed Rock Wallaby
  14. Black-headed Gull
  15. Black-rumped Flameback
  16. Black-spotted Frog
  17. Black Stilt
  18. Blackstripe Topminnow
  19. Black Swan
  20. Black-tailed Deer
  21. Black-winged Stilt
  22. Blister Beetle spp.
  23. Blowfly
  24. Blue-backed Manakin
  25. Blue-bellied Roller
  26. Bluegill Sunfish
  27. Blue Sheep
  28. Blue Tit
  29. Blue-winged Teal
  30. Bonnet Macaque
  31. Bonobo
  32. Boto
  33. Bottlenose Dolphin
  34. Bowhead Whale
  35. Box Crab
  36. Bridled Dolphin
  37. Broad-headed Skink
  38. Broadwinged Damselfly sp.
  39. Brown Bear
  40. Brown Capuchin
  41. Brown-headed Cowbird
  42. Brown Long-eared Bat
  43. Brown Rat
  44. Budgeriger (Domestic)
  45. Buff-breasted Sandpiper
  46. Rush Dog
  47. Cabbage (Small) White
  48. Calfbird
  49. California Gull
  50. Canada Goose
  51. Canary-winged Parakeet
  52. Caribou
  53. Caspian Tern
  54. Cat (Domestic)
  55. Cattle (Domestic)
  56. Cattle Egret
  57. Chaffinch
  58. Char
  59. Checkered Whiptail Lizard
  60. Checkerspot Butterfly
  61. Cheetah
  62. Chicken (Domestic)
  63. Chihuahuan Spotted Whiptail Lizard
  64. Chiloe Wigeon
  65. Cliff Swallow
  66. Clubtail Dragonfly spp.
  67. Cockroach spp.
  68. Collared Peccary
  69. Cammerson's Dolphin
  70. Common Ameiva
  71. Common Brushtail Possum
  72. Common Chimpanzee
  73. Common Dolphin
  74. Common Garter Snake
  75. Common Gull
  76. Common Marmoset
  77. Common Murre
  78. Common Pipistrelle
  79. Common Racoon
  80. Common Shelduck
  81. Common Skimmer Dragonfly spp.
  82. Common Tree Shrew
  1. Cotton-top Tamarin
  2. Crab-eating Macaque
  3. Crane spp.
  4. Creeping Water Bug sp.
  5. Crested Black Macaque
  6. Cuban Green Anole
  7. Cui
  8. Dall's Sheep
  9. Daubenton's Bat
  10. Desert Grassland Whiptail Lizard
  11. Desert Tortoise
  12. Digger Bee
  13. Dog (Domestic)
  14. Doria's Tree Kangaroo
  15. Dragonfly spp.
  16. Dugong
  17. Dusky Moorhen
  18. Dwarf Cavy
  19. Dwarf Mongoose
  20. Eastern Bluebird
  21. Eastern Cottontail Rabbit
  22. Eastern Giant Ichneumon
  23. Eastern Gray Kangaroo
  24. Egyptian Goose
  25. Elegant Parrot
  26. Elk
  27. Emu
  28. Eucalyptus Longhorned Borer
  29. Euro
  30. European Bison
  31. European Bitterling
  32. European Jay
  33. European Shag
  34. Fallow Deer
  35. False Killer Whale
  36. Fat-tailed Dunnart
  37. Fence Lizard
  38. Field Cricket sp.
  39. Fin Whale
  40. Five-lined Skink
  41. Flamingo
  42. Fruit Fly spp.
  43. Galah
  44. Gelada Baboon
  45. Gentoo Penguin
  46. Giraffe
  47. Glasswing Butterfly
  48. Goat (Domestic)
  49. Golden Bishop Bird
  50. Golden Monkey
  51. Golden Plover
  52. Gopher (Pine) Snake
  1. Gorilla
  2. Grant's Gazelle
  3. Grape Berry Moth
  4. Grape Borer
  5. Gray-breasted Jay
  6. Gray-capped Social Weaver
  7. Gray-headed Flying Fox
  8. Gray Heron
  9. Grayling
  10. Gray Seal
  11. Gray Squirrel
  12. Gray Whale
  13. Great Cormorant
  14. Greater Bird of Paradise
  15. Greater Rhea
  16. Green Anole
  17. Green Lacewing
  18. Green Sandpiper
  19. Greenshank
  20. Green Swordtail
  21. Greylag Goose
  22. Griffon Vulture
  23. Grizzly Bear
  24. Guiana Leaffish
  25. Guianan Cock-of-the-Rock
  26. Guillemot
  27. Guinea Pig (Domestic)
  1. Hamadryas Baboon
  2. Hammerhead
  3. Hamster (Domestic)
  4. Hanuman Lanur
  5. Harbor Porpoise
  6. Harbor Seal
  7. Harvest Spider sp.
  8. Hawaiin Orb-Weaver
  9. Hen Flea
  10. Herring Gull
  11. Himalayan Tahr
  12. Hoary-headed Grebe
  13. Hoary Marmot
  14. Hooded Warbler
  15. Horse (Domestic)
  16. House Fly
  17. House Sparrow
  18. Houting Whitefish
  19. Humboldt Penguin
  20. Ichneumon Wasp sp.
  21. Incirrate Octopus spp.
  22. Inagua Curlytail Lizard
  23. Indian Fruit Bat
  24. Indian Mantjac
  25. Indian Rhinoceros
  26. Ivory Gull
  27. Jackdaw
  28. Jamaican Giant Anole
  29. Japanese Scarab Beetle
  30. Japanese Macaque
  31. Javelina
  32. Jewel Fish
  33. Jumping Spider sp.
  34. Kangaroo Rat
  35. Kestrel
  36. Killer Whale
  37. King Penquin
  38. Kittiwake
  39. Koala
  40. Kob
  41. Larch Bud Moth
  42. Laredo Striped Whiptail Lizard
  43. Larga Seal
  44. Largehead Anole
  45. Large Milkweed Bug
  46. Large White
  47. Laughing Gull
  48. Laysan Albatross
  49. Least Chipmunk
  50. Least Darter
  51. Lechwe
  52. Lesser Bushbaby
  53. Lesser Flamingo
  54. Lesser Scaup Duck
  55. Lion
  56. Lion-tailed Macaque
  57. Lion Tamarin
  58. Little Blue Heron
  59. Little Brown Bat
  60. Little Egret
  61. Livingstone's Fruit Bat
  62. Long-eared Hedgehog
  63. Long-footed Tree Shrew
  64. Long-legged Fly spp.
  65. Long-tailed Hermit Hummingbird
  66. Mallard Duck
  67. Markhor
  68. Marten
  69. Masked Lovebird
  70. Matschie's Tree Kangaroo
  71. Mazarine Blue
  72. Mealy Amazon Parrot
  73. Mediterranean Fruit Fly
  74. Mew Gull
  75. Mexican Jay
  76. Mexican White
  77. Midge sp.
  78. Migratory Locust
  79. Mite sp.
  80. Moco
  81. Mohol Galago
  82. Monarch Butterfly
  1. Moor Macaque
  2. Moose
  3. Mountain Dusky Salamander
  4. Mountain Goat
  5. Mountain Tree Shrew
  6. Mountain Zebra
  7. Mourning Gecko
  8. Mouse (Domestic)
  9. Mouthbreeding Fish sp.
  10. Mule Deer
  11. Mustached Tamarin
  12. Musk Duck
  13. Musk-ox
  14. Mute Swan
  15. Narrow-winged Damselfly spp.
  16. Natterer's Bat
  17. New Zealand Sea Lion
  18. Nilgiri Langur
  19. Noctule
  20. North American Porcupine
  21. Northern Elephant Seal
  22. Northern Fur Seal
  23. Northern Quoll
  24. Ocellated Antbird
  25. Ocher-bellied Flycatcher
  26. Olympic Marmot
  27. Orange Bishop Bird
  28. Orange-footed Parakeet
  29. Orangutan
  30. Orca
  31. Ornate Lorikeet
  32. Ostrich
  33. Oystercatcher
  34. Pacific Striped Dolphin
  35. Parsnip Leaf Miner
  36. Patas Monkey
  37. Peach-faced Lovebird
  38. Pere David's Deer
  39. Pied Flycatcher
  40. Pied Kingfisher
  41. Pig (Domestic)
  42. Pigeon (Domestic)
  43. Pig-tailed Macaque
  44. Plains Zebra
  45. Plateau Striped Whiptail Lizard
  46. Polar Bear
  47. Pomace Fly
  48. Powerful Owl
  49. Prea
  50. Pretty-faced Wallaby
  51. Proboscis Monkey
  52. Pronghorn
  1. Przewalski's Horse
  2. Pukeko
  3. Puku
  4. Purple Swamphen
  5. Pygmy Chimpanzee
  6. Queen Butterfly
  7. Quokka
  8. Rabbit (Domestic)
  9. Raccoon Dog
  10. Raggiana's Bird of Paradise
  11. Rat (Domestic)
  12. Raven
  13. Razorbill
  14. Red Ant sp.
  15. Red-backed Shrike
  16. Red Bishop Bird
  17. Red Deer
  18. Red Diamond Rattlesnake
  19. Red-faced Lovebird
  20. Red Flour Beetle
  21. Red Fox
  22. Red Kangaroo
  23. Red-necked Wallaby
  24. Redshank
  25. Red-shouldered Widowbird
  26. Red Squirrel
  27. Red-tailed Skink
  28. Reeve's Muntjac
  1. Regent Bowerbird
  2. Reindeer
  3. Reindeer Warble Fly
  4. Rhesus Macaque
  5. Right Whale
  6. Ring-billed Gull
  7. Ring Dove
  8. Rock Cavy
  9. Rock Dove
  10. Rodrigues Fruit Bat
  11. Roe Deer
  12. Roseate Cockatoo
  13. Roseate Tern
  14. Rosechafer
  15. Rose-ringed Parakeet
  16. Rove Beetle spp.
  17. Ruff
  18. Ruffed Grouse
  19. Rufous Bettong
  20. Rufous-naped Tamarin
  21. Rufous Rat Kangaroo
  22. Saddle-back Tamarin
  23. Sage Grouse
  24. Salmon spp.
  25. San Blas Jay
  26. Sand Martin
  27. Satin Bowerbird
  28. Savanna Baboon
  29. Scarab Beetle, Melolonthine
  30. Scarlet Ibis
  31. Scottish Crossbill
  32. Screwworm Fly
  33. Sea Otter
  34. Senegal Parrot
  35. Serotine Bat
  36. Sharp-tailed Sparrow
  37. Sheep (Domestic)
  38. Siamang
  39. Side-blotched Lizard
  40. Sika Deer
  41. Silkworm Moth
  42. Silver Gull
  43. Silvery Grebe
  44. Slender Tree Shrew
  45. Snow Goose
  46. Sociable Weaver
  47. Sooty Mangabey
  48. Southeastern Blueberry Bee
  49. Southern Green Stink Bug
  50. Southern Masked Chafer
  51. Southern One-Year Canegrub
  52. Southern Platyfish
  53. Speckled Rattlesnake
  54. Sperm Whale
  55. Spinifex Hopping Mouse
  56. Spinner Dolphin
  57. Spotted Hyena
  58. Spotted Seal
  59. Spreadwinged Damselfly spp.
  60. Spruce Budworm Moth
  61. Squirrel Monkey
  62. Stable Fly sp.
  63. Stag Beetle spp.
  64. Steller's Sea Eagle
  65. Striped Dolphin
  66. Stuart's Marsupial Mouse
  67. Stumptail Macaque
  68. Superb Lyrebird
  69. Swallow-tailed Manakin
  70. Swamp Deer
  71. Swamp Wallaby
  72. Takhi
  73. Talapoin
  74. Tammar Wallaby
  75. Tasmanian Devil
  76. Tasmanian Native Hen
  77. Tasmanian Rat Kangaroo
  78. Tengger Desert Toad
  79. Ten-spined Stickleback
  80. Thinhorn Sheep
  81. Thomson's Gazelle
  82. Three-spined Stickleback
  83. Tonkean Macaque
  1. Tree Swallow
  2. Trumpeter Swan
  3. Tsetse Fly
  4. Tucuxi
  5. Turkey (Domestic)
  6. Urial
  7. Vampire Bat
  8. Verreaux's Sifaka
  9. Vervet
  10. Victoria's Riflebird
  11. Vicuna
  12. Walrus
  13. Wapiti
  14. Warthog
  15. Water Boatman Bug
  16. Waterbuck
  17. Water Buffalo
  18. Water Moccasin
  19. Water Strider spp.
  20. Wattled Starling
  21. Weeper Capuchin
  22. Western Gray Kangaroo
  23. Western Gull
  24. Western Rattlesnake
  25. West Indian Manatee
  26. Western Banded Gecko
  27. Whiptail Lizard spp.
  28. Whiptail Wallaby
  29. White-faced Capuchin
  30. White-fronted Amazon Parrot
  31. White-fronted Capuchin
  32. White-handed Gibbon
  33. White-lipped Peccary
  34. White Stork
  35. White-tailed Deer
  36. Wild Cavy
  37. Wild Goat
  38. Wisent
  39. Wolf
  40. Wood Duck
  41. Wood Turtle
  42. Yellow-backed (Chattering) Lorikeet
  43. Yello-footed Rock Wallaby
  44. Yellow-rumped Cacique
  45. Yellow-toothed Cavy
  46. Zebra Finch (Domestic)

Just to copy and paste a few

 

I'm trying to keep my posts short if that's ok with you. I have trouble reading long posts. I have bad eyes :(

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I'm trying to keep my posts short if that's ok with you. I have trouble reading long posts. I have bad eyes :(

 

Ha ha, the wood duck is gay...   Never would have guess a sheep called a bighorn would be though. :unsure:

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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UltraFaceplam.jpg

 

This thread is so bad, you all deserve a truly biblical facepalm.

 

Some of you should be genuinely ashamed. I'm not saying I'd like to punt you into the sun, but I'm saying that I'd like to punt you into the sun. 

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I really find it interesting that you demand scientific evidence for this certain subject but downright reject it in others. Bit of a double standard if you ask me and it makes it difficult to debate someone who seems to change that side of things to support an argument. Not meant to sound ad hominem.
 
Here are a few peer reviewed studies on Homosexuality
Here
 
These aren't trained animals, they are wild animals.
 
Just to copy and paste a few
 
I'm trying to keep my posts short if that's ok with you. I have trouble reading long posts. I have bad eyes :(

 

Ah, then I will do my best to keep these short. I understand somewhat. I've worn glasses for 19 of my 20 years of life. But remember that doing so means less clarification on why I am as I am and do as I do.

That's because I judge scientific evidence based on it's relevance and logical basis. If it asks me to make an assumption I don't believe initially or simply right, then it's irrelevant to me.

I'll be honest, to say what I'm being presented is biased feels the need to be noted. I mean the website is "borngay.procon.com". As I'm reading the short overviews of these peer-reviewed studies, I'm seeing little causation between biological aspects of a creature and them actually being homosexual. Note that I am ignoring their labels as I find it a bias to consider them.

So far I'm on number 4 and two of them feel the need to mention they used a very small or small sample in their study while also giving advice not to read too much into it (words from the researchers specifically) and the other two say little more than (paraphrased) "This is what we think might cause it and we are still working on it." I'll read the other 15 and mention you here to read that when I do. A bit busy suddenly.

Edit:

Well... @beebskadoo, from your link to the LGBT Sexual Orientation explanation:
 

What causes Homosexuality/Heterosexuality/Bisexuality?
No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. ...

Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.

 

So yeah. I took a break from the peer-reviewed research (on #5 and it's not very different from the prior 4 though it has more merit than they do imo). That seems pretty straight forward to me. Then there's this question that's raised: Is It Possible To Change One’s Sexual Orientation (“Reparative Therapy”)? Which the answer to leaves a big ? on it. 

So, effectively, I believe one thing, you believe the other, and science has nothing concrete on who is right. Which is why I take issue with the LGBT rhetoric (from what I've experienced, which is kind of a lot of it) that it's simply an immutable fact that it's not a choice. And I think now you should be able to see why that irks me. 

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UltraFaceplam.jpg

 

This thread is so bad, you all deserve a truly biblical facepalm.

 

Some of you should be genuinely ashamed. I'm not saying I'd like to punt you into the sun, but I'm saying that I'd like to punt you into the sun. 

 

It's kinda petulant of you to only post insulting comments and degrade the posters in this thread when you haven't actually added anything yourself. 

 

Do you think your better than the rest of us?

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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It's kinda petulant of you to only post insulting comments and degrade the posters in this thread when you haven't actually added anything yourself. 

 

Do you think your better than the rest of us?

 

Why would I add anything? This thread has gone so downhill that any reasonable discussion is long gone. I'd only bring myself down to an idiots level and then get beaten with their experience. 

 

Also, you're*

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Ah, then I will do my best to keep these short. I understand somewhat. I've worn glasses for 19 of my 20 years of life. But remember that doing so means less clarification on why I am as I am and do as I do.

That's because I judge scientific evidence based on it's relevance and logical basis. If it asks me to make an assumption I don't believe initially or simply right, then it's irrelevant to me.

I'll be honest, to say what I'm being presented is biased feels the need to be noted. I mean the website is "borngay.procon.com". As I'm reading the short overviews of these peer-reviewed studies, I'm seeing little causation between biological aspects of a creature and them actually being homosexual. Note that I am ignoring their labels as I find it a bias to consider them.

So far I'm on number 4 and two of them feel the need to mention they used a very small or small sample in their study while also giving advice not to read too much into it (words from the researchers specifically) and the other two say little more than (paraphrased) "This is what we think might cause it and we are still working on it." I'll read the other 15 and mention you here to read that when I do. A bit busy suddenly.

I... don't get it?

that is just what I have dug up with a quick Google search. Unfortunately it's really hard to find sources for any peer reviewed material on the web, the scientific community aren't the best at making papers publicly available to those without subscriptions. And unfortunately some are just paraphrases of the original source material.

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Why would I add anything? This thread has gone so downhill that any reasonable discussion is long gone. I'd only bring myself down to an idiots level and then get beaten with their experience.

Also, you're*

none of the arguments or discussions made on this thread have been made by idiots. I don't know how you can come to that conclusion...

Silly goose

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none of the arguments or discussions made on this thread have been made by idiots. I don't know how you can come to that conclusion...

Silly goose

 

Oh really? Well, we are clearly reading some very different threads. 

 

I've seen on group of people post pretty reasoned positions, and another post some questionable at best content that is either flat out trolling or just flat out ignorance. 

 

I thought this thing would mercifully die down PAGES ago and get buried like it should be, but nope. This train wreck goes strong still. 

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Why would I add anything? This thread has gone so downhill that any reasonable discussion is long gone. I'd only bring myself down to an idiots level and then get beaten with their experience. 

 

Also, you're*

 

In other words yes you do think  you're better.

 

Well, you could have added some rational thought as to why you thought the discussion going downhill, however somewhat ironically you decided instead to take the thread down even further with a petty insult or two.

 

It is quite possible to just not read this thread at all if you don't like it, or to simply ignore the posts you feel are irrelevant. There is no need to make blanket insults, especially if you are not willing to give the discussion any decent input.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Being anti-gay is no different than being openly racist. You can't dislike somebody based on traits that they're born with, be it skin color or sexual orientation. People are free to express their opinion but when you go out of your way and spend 1000 bucks to oppress another group of people, then you're crossing a line.

Yet another person who is missing the point. It does not matter what he is against personally, his beliefs are protected under the Constitution and he can not be punished for them in any way. Sexual Orientation does not trump Religious Freedom or Freedom of Expression. ALL of them are equally protected rights. That's the point. He had an absolute right under the Constitution to support a legal ballot initiative in his state. A ballot initiative that was voted on by the people and they voted in support of that bill. By your logic, of the more than 7 million people who voted Yes for Prop 8, every single person who voted yes should be punished and every single one of them is a bigot. That is how our country works, the people vote on laws and those laws are passed based on the will of the people. 

You say that being gay is something a person is born with, and I agree, but science has also proven that petophiles are not in control of their attraction to children. I am NOT saying that being gay is the same thing as harming a child, but science has proven that sexual attraction is biological. Stay with me now, don't go flying off the handle, after all, your own science is the one that's against you here, not me. Obviously harming children is not OK, but there are other types of sexual attraction, and according to you sexual attraction is not a choice someone makes. So let us apply your logic to incest between two consenting adults. Go ask ANY gay rights activist if they support a father getting married to his son, and not a single one of them will support it. But, again by YOUR logic, that would make everyone who opposes adult incest marriage a bigot. After all, it's two consenting adults who are not in control of their attraction to another person.

Brendan Eich is only a bigot if he fired a gay employee for being gay, refused to hire a gay person because they are gay or said he was going to make Firefox block access to pro-gay websites. But none of those things happened. All he did was make a political donation  6 years ago, when he was not even CEO of Mozilla at that time. He only became the CEO two weeks ago and a anti-religious freedom bigot went and violated his right to privacy and disclosed his 100% private political donation for the sole purpose of making him lose his job.

Being gay or being any minority does not give a person a free pass to do whatever they feel like. But that is the attitude that you and so many other people are displaying. It's the same nonsense with Employers being sued by President Obama simply because they conduct background checks on potential applicants. In every single lawsuit, the Obama Administration has admitted that White People were held to the EXACT same standard as minorities, but because a minority is statistically more likely to have a criminal background, that some how makes it "discrimination" to consider a person's criminal history before offering them a job. But it's not discrimination, no matter what Obama or anyone else says, it's simply preferential treatment for minorities.

Same goes for voter ID laws, blacks and other minorities are not held to a different standard than white people, but because a minority is statistically more likely to be poor or simply not have an ID in the first place. Yet no one says it's discrimination to ask for an ID to board an airplane or buy cigarettes. By the logic of the anti-voter ID law people, IDs should be outlawed entirely because it's "discrimination" to ask for one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)

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Brendan Eich is only a bigot if he fired a gay employee for being gay, refused to hire a gay person because they are gay or said he was going to make Firefox block access to pro-gay websites. But none of those things happened. All he did was make a political donation  6 years ago, when he was not even CEO of Mozilla at that time. He only became the CEO two weeks ago and a anti-religious freedom bigot went and violated his right to privacy and disclosed his 100% private political donation for the sole purpose of making him lose his job.

 

He is a bigot because he paid money to help pass a law that discriminates against homosexuals.  Don't go ignoring half the facts to prove your point.  He did not just make a political donation, he actively supported the discrimination of people, that makes him a bigot. PERIOD. 

 

You can argue time until the cows come home but he did the deed, and at no time since has he shown any intention or sign of regret, thus he is just as guilty today as he was when he made the donation.  People have the right to point out his bigotry and boycott his companies products because of it.  They are not demanding he shut up, they are demanding he stop actively trying to take away their rights.

 

And for the record, this has nothing to do with anti discrimination groups being anti-religious, they may be or they may not but that is moot in this case because no one is trying to remove religious freedom, the only person in this case who is actively trying to remove the freedoms of people is Brendon Eich, 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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He is a bigot because he paid money to help pass a law that discriminates against homosexuals.  Don't go ignoring half the facts to prove your point.  He did not just make a political donation, he actively supported the discrimination of people, that makes him a bigot. PERIOD. 

 

You can argue time until the cows come home but he did the deed, and at no time since has he shown any intention or sign of regret, thus he is just as guilty today as he was when he made the donation.  People have the right to point out his bigotry and boycott his companies products because of it.  They are not demanding he shut up, they are demanding he stop actively trying to take away their rights.

 

And for the record, this has nothing to do with anti discrimination groups being anti-religious, they may be or they may not but that is moot in this case because no one is trying to remove religious freedom, the only person in this case who is actively trying to remove the freedoms of people is Brendon Eich, 

And you have a right to THINK that, but that doesn't make you right. 7 million people in California are not bigots for expressing their religious beliefs, but you are a bigot for saying they don't have a right to do so.

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And you have a right to THINK that, but that doesn't make you right. 7 million people in California are not bigots for expressing their religious beliefs, but you are a bigot for saying they don't have a right to do so.

 

7 miillion people are bigots if they voted to remove the rights of Homosexuals to get married.  And you must not have read my post very well because I said that they do have the right to say that, they also have the right to think it.

What makes them bigots is the act of turning those rights into actions that cause discrimination i.e voting for an unconstitutional law that discriminates.

 

 

So seeing as you are having trouble with this I will make it simpler:

 

1. the only person actively suppressing the rights of others is Brendon Eich.

 

2. No body is trying to suppress his freedom of speech.

 

3. no body is trying to suppress the freedom of religious association

 

4. only Brendon Eich has acted in a manner that could be defined as bigotry.

 

 

It really isn't that  complicated.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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7 miillion people are bigots if they voted to remove the rights of Homosexuals to get married.  And you must not have read my post very well because I said that they do have the right to say that, they also have the right to think it.

What makes them bigots is the act of turning those rights into actions that cause discrimination i.e voting for an unconstitutional law that discriminates.

 

 

So seeing as you are having trouble with this I will make it simpler:

 

1. the only person actively suppressing the rights of others is Brendon Eich.

 

2. No body is trying to suppress his freedom of speech.

 

3. no body is trying to suppress the freedom of religious association

 

4. only Brendon Eich has acted in a manner that could be defined as bigotry.

 

 

It really isn't that  complicated.

He exercised his right to freely express his religious beliefs by supporting a LEGAL ballot measure that was in support of his religious beliefs.The only bigot it you and people like you who say he didn't have a right to make that donation.

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He exercised his right to freely express his religious beliefs by supporting a LEGAL ballot measure that was in support of his religious beliefs.The only bigot it you and people like you who say he didn't have a right to make that donation.

 

You don't know what a bigot is do you?

 

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust or hatred on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, evaluative orientation, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

 

 

He was supporting an unconstitutional policy that would discriminate against homosexuals That makes him a bigot. 

 

Me pointing out that he is a bigot does not make me a bigot.   Anti discrimination protesters protesting against his bigotry does not make them bigots, the 7 million people who voted to have the rights of homosexuals removed are bigots.

 

I am not a bigot because I do not want to suppress his freedoms, I am also not a bigot because I detest his bigotry.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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He is suggesting that the majority of the U.S. supports gay marriage. Which is correct. You must be pretty deep in the south.

 

I know it's 17 pages and all but unless you are going to read all that is written, please do not post. What you wrote here makes no sense whatsoever.

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This is really stupid ruining someones career simply because he donated some money to an anti-gay organisation over a 3 years ago is really not fair. The guy didn't even do anything wrong. If he put in place some anti-gay legislation in the company then yea he should resign but he didn't do anything wrong. This is discrimination.

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-snip-

Couple of things:

1. Science does not agree that homosexuality is proven biological. At best it is assumed (not good enough to be fact). At worst it is unknown what causes it. People can believe what they want about it though of course.

2. I think that reply was meant for someone else. Wrong quote I suppose. It happens.S

 

You don't know what a bigot is do you?

 

He was supporting an unconstitutional policy that would discriminate against homosexuals That makes him a bigot. 

 

Me pointing out that he is a bigot does not make me a bigot.   Anti discrimination protesters protesting against his bigotry does not make them bigots, the 7 million people who voted to have the rights of homosexuals removed are bigots.

 

I am not a bigot because I do not want to suppress his freedoms, I am also not a bigot because I detest his bigotry.

 

...

 

 

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust or hatred on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, evaluative orientation, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

 

... You can say it doesn't make you a bigot all day. It makes you a bigot. You and others like you fit the definition perfectly. He wanted to take their rights away but didn't (effectively). People didn't want to use products from a company he lead which took his job. Treating him with distrust and hatred based on an opinion he held and actions he took according to that opinion because of their prejudice upon him. That he is as he was. It's been 6 years. And it matters f*** all to his company by way of the policies he has not enacted (AFAWK). And I use that language because I'm serious. Not angry.

As someone else has said, have people who boycotted Mozilla boycotted Javascript? Doubtful. Entirely so. 

Regardless of whether you have justification or not (He didn't have it, the people did), bigotry is bigotry. 

 

Hypocrites abound. Always have. Love is the answer and always was. And no, I don't mean romantic love.

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Couple of things:

1. Science does not agree that homosexuality is proven biological. At best it is assumed (not good enough to be fact). At worst it is unknown what causes it. People can believe what they want about it though of course.

2. I think that reply was meant for someone else. Wrong quote I suppose. It happens.S

 

 

...

 

 

... You can say it doesn't make you a bigot all day. It makes you a bigot. You and others like you fit the definition perfectly. He wanted to take their rights away but didn't (effectively). People didn't want to use products from a company he lead which took his job. Treating him with distrust and hatred based on an opinion he held and actions he took according to that opinion because of their prejudice upon him. That he is as he was. It's been 6 years. And it matters f*** all to his company by way of the policies he has not enacted (AFAWK). And I use that language because I'm serious. Not angry.

As someone else has said, have people who boycotted Mozilla boycotted Javascript? Doubtful. Entirely so. 

Regardless of whether you have justification or not (He didn't have it, the people did), bigotry is bigotry. 

 

Hypocrites abound. Always have. Love is the answer and always was. And no, I don't mean romantic love.

If you want to interpret it that way then every living person is a bigot and there is no point in have a word with a definition that means nothing.

 

He actively tried to discriminate, we are just voicing our displeasure that he did. that is the difference. and a pretty big one at that.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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