TPMpocalypse; Microsoft singlehandedly destroys the TPM market

[Tristerin]

6 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Yeah but a lot of people don't want to learn. You have to take in to account the lowest common denominator and thats the amount of people who dont want to learn. My dad is one. My mom while she can use a computer, doesnt want to learn the technical stuff. 

Right, still a work-a-round for me and them should they want to.  If not they can choose to invest in a new PC.  Unfortunate - I agree - because this planned obsolesce is unacceptable to me.

 

Im not condoning MS doing this - I also do not believe a non-techie should have to do a work-a-round to use an OS on an x86 CPU.  There is a slight expectation for things to work, imho.

 

[LAwLz]

On 6/26/2021 at 6:40 PM, StDragon said:

Never followed him myself; and with such a snarky ass comment as that, I don't think I will.

BTW, next time link to the source  

 

https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/1408116438460682242

Paul redeemed himself in today's episode of Windows Weekly, and I think it explains why he said the things he did.

He didn't know about the whole "only works on 8th gen or ryzen 2000". He thought the requirements were:

• 1GHz processor or faster with 2 or more cores.
• 4GB of RAM
• 64GB of storage

 

Those were the requirements he thought Windows 11 had when he made that comment. And I can't really blame him, those are the requirements you see when you look under "system requirements" on Microsoft's website. It's only once you start clicking onto other pages where it says stuff like "8th gen or newer".

 

If you wanna listen to what Thurrott has to say (I agree with him on a lot of things) then here is a link (he is the guy on the monitor):

 

 

This was a Tweet he made just a couple of days after the whole "just get a real PC" tweet, once he had discovered the Intel 8th gen requirements:

 

[Shreyas1]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:12 PM, wkdpaul said:

Not sure I understand the craze ; Windows 11 isn't necessary for the moment and if you really need Windows 11, wait until it's out, by that time you might get an upgrade that make your computer compatible, and if not, just wait it out and see if it's really worth it or not since Windows 10 is still supported until 2025 !!!

 

This is similar to the TP or fuel hoarding ... panic buying is dumb.

Wouldn't much of the buying come from system manufacturers? If you're making a laptop, don't you want to advertise windows 11 on it?

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Shreyas1 said:

Wouldn't much of the buying come from system manufacturers? If you're making a laptop, don't you want to advertise windows 11 on it?

Yes.

 

Those add-in TPM's are a DIY-only feature, and the MB makers didn't standardize on a TPM interface.

ASUS:

Asrock:

MSI:

 

 

Gigabyte:

The key pins are different on all of these, not to mention the number of pins (14/20).

 

But more to the point these TPM modules are already obsolete. Microsoft is having AMD and Intel include their own Pluton logic from the Xbox consoles in the CPU in what they call fTPM 2.0.  https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/17/21571069/microsoft-pluton-processor-security-windows-pc

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16269/microsoft-pluton-hardware-security-coming-to-our-cpus-amd-intel-qualcomm

 

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/anatomy-of-a-secured-mcu/

 

So that means MB manufacturer's might omit the TPM header entirely, or they might leave it and allow the BIOS to switch between the two (which is what the z590 boards that support the 11th gen fTPM do.) Since some people might actually have a need for that TPM module if they are migrating hardware from an older system, but good luck getting that TPM module to work when none of the boards use the same one, and even same vendor's use different ones.

 

So anyone buying them just to scalp them, jokes on you.

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

8 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Yes.

 

Those add-in TPM's are a DIY-only feature, and the MB makers didn't standardize on a TPM interface.

ASUS:

Asrock:

MSI:

 

 

Gigabyte:

The key pins are different on all of these, not to mention the number of pins (14/20).

 

But more to the point these TPM modules are already obsolete. Microsoft is having AMD and Intel include their own Pluton logic from the Xbox consoles in the CPU in what they call fTPM 2.0.  https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/17/21571069/microsoft-pluton-processor-security-windows-pc

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16269/microsoft-pluton-hardware-security-coming-to-our-cpus-amd-intel-qualcomm

 

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/anatomy-of-a-secured-mcu/

 

So that means MB manufacturer's might omit the TPM header entirely, or they might leave it and allow the BIOS to switch between the two (which is what the z590 boards that support the 11th gen fTPM do.) Since some people might actually have a need for that TPM module if they are migrating hardware from an older system, but good luck getting that TPM module to work when none of the boards use the same one, and even same vendor's use different ones.

 

So anyone buying them just to scalp them, jokes on you.

 

More annoyingly ASUS has multiple pin outs for their add-in TPM modules (14-1 and 20-1 pins) and the latter which my board uses is pretty much nowhere to be found. Hopefully they'll put them back in production but I'm not getting my hopes up. 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Shreyas1 said:

Wouldn't much of the buying come from system manufacturers? If you're making a laptop, don't you want to advertise windows 11 on it?

I would say the lions share of TPM modules would be system manufacturers who were already ramping up their inclusion.  Given there is a shortage of everything (even radiata pine), I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is just a coincidence more than anything.    

 

Also, given we still have another 4 years of legit 10 support, if win11 runs on fTPM then the vast majority of computers will already be capable (average upgrade cycle for domestic PC's is 5-6years and industrial/fleet is 3-5 years).

[Bratstech]

damn it microsoft

[StDragon]

44 minutes ago, mr moose said:

if win11 runs on fTPM then the vast majority of computers will already be capable (average upgrade cycle for domestic PC's is 5-6years and industrial/fleet is 3-5 years).

Yes, fTPM 2.0 qualifies. While 7th gen Intel officially doesn't qualify, it did pass the PC Health Check (Windows 11 compatibility) if fTPM was enabled in BIOS.

So short answer, if you have any CPU on the officially supported list, you can just enable fTPM if your MB doesn't have one onboard. Going forward, there's no reason to include a physical TPM with aftermarket MB.
 

Side note: I've got a 6th gen Intel that let me enable fTPM 2.0.

And for those worried about what happens if you upgrade your CPU with fTPM enabled; the MB will prompt at POST of the change. If you had BitLocker enabled, you type in the recovery key. Once booted into Windows, the OS will reintegrate with the new fTPM. Any apps that relied on the old CPU will have a broken trust. But that should be simple enough to re-establish the trust again.