DirectX 12 will be supported on Windows 7 and Up

[bogus]

Wow moose you are in denial. Xbox One Games were running on pcs at E3 , period.

The only difference is that at E3 MS said they were running on Xbox One, and at GDC said it was running on PC as a port lol. When they were the same thing. Words, that's all.

But hey you dodged my initial post with plenty of facts, I wont bother replying to you anymore. Waste of time.

@deathjester you didnt read properly any of my posts. I never said opengl is bad. What I said is that John has a agenda. He is one dev among many. He said that too many apis is bad, yet we saw how neglected dx was. And surely opengl didnt put any pressure to improve it.

[deviant88]

If i were microsoft i would have made it avaible only on win 8.1 and above and reduce win 8.1 license price to 20$...

[Askew]

OpenGL is owned by AMD, Intel, Nvidia. They are all part of the Kronos group, so what you just said literally makes no sense. Carmack has just always supported OpenGL and an Open API. You can go back to his original letter to Microsoft where he said DirectX was $@%#. He said 9 was pretty good compared to their other ones (much later), but that doesn't mean he is ever going to favor a closed API over an open one.

 

 

http://www.bluesnews.com/archives/carmack122396.html

 

^ His letter.

 

Do the devs want to start from scratch and drop the old crap in all the API's? Sure. You can do that with either though. You are pretty much comparing effects/shaders between the API's. They grow equally. OpenGL effects/shaders will never die because Mac uses them. Any GPU you buy has a DirectX/OpenGL standard listed on it's specs. They are the same damn thing. It just means the GPU can display the newer effects.

 

Did PS3 games look worse then Xbox One? Nope. How about PS4/Xbox One? Almost the same damn thing as far as effects/shaders. Power of the console/resolution is a whole nother topic. The PS4 is not handicapped in any way not using DX though.

 

I read the letter, as that was nearly 2 decades ago I have to ask if that's still the situation, is OpenGL easier to use than Direct X?

[deathjester]

I think you need to learn what the difference is between developing ON a platform versus developing FOR a platform. They are two very different things.

 

 

 

Did you watch the video? when a corporate VP for a company says "it will run on windows 7"  Then that is what he says.  Until such time as it is released and we know for sure it won't,  you are just speculating. I am not selling anything, I am repeating what is on the video for all to watch.

 

And? Did you see the article saying Windows 7 "full support" ends in 2015?

 

MS says a lot of things. If they plan to give Windows 7 DX 12 then they would put DirectX 11.2 on 7. They have already shown they will screw over PC gamers as far as API multiple times. I have zero reason to believe that is changing. Want me to believe it? Put Direct X 11.2 on Windows 7 now. Until then? I could care less what MS says. 

 

Show me a direct statement from MS saying it will be on 7.

 

"they wanted to support the largest install base possible", does not = Win 7 and that install base can be spun several ways. Tablets/notebooks etc. Say 9 is a hit and 8 still is not. The two biggest install bases will be 7 and 9. I bet you that it will still be on 8/9 though. Many companies are flat out refusing to upgrade since 8 is so bad per their employees. Those companies will most likely buy Win 9 machines. Those aren't gaming PC's but they can be spun that way in a stat line. 

[deathjester]

I read the letter, as that was nearly 2 decades ago I have to ask if that's still the situation, is OpenGL easier to use than Direct X?

 

No. At times DX was easier and 9 was probably DirectX at it's peak and is when Carmack complimented it. Now with new tools OpenGL is just as easy. What you have though is a bunch of programmers who learned DX due to Vista/scare tactic back then. People were leaked info that OpenGL would be crippled in Vista, and they switched. So you have a lot of guys in the DX camp at the triple A's. You could say the same thing is happening now with OpenGL though. Mobile is mainly OpenGL, so many of those up and coming guys are OpenGL guys. Many of the indie devs straight up hate MS.

 

MS is getting big into mobile with DirectX to try and counter this. 

[mr moose]

Right now it's just got Microsoft's word vs skepticism, no hard evidence.

not only that but at the moment there is zero reason to dispute it nor carry on like it's a fascist lie.  either way, as I have said in other threads, when it does finally come out so will 9 and most users won't actually need it to play the latest titles anyway. so It's like complaining because those who still use xp and a pre-fermi GPU will miss out on performance gains in a game they can't play anyway.

 

 

Wow you are in denial. Xbox One Games were running on pcs at E3 , period.

The only difference is that at E3 MS said they were running on Xbox One, and at GDC said it was running on PC as a port lol. When they were the same thing. Words, that's all.

But hey you dodged my initial post with plenty of facts, I wont bother replying to you anymore. Waste of time.

 

You still don't understand how the programing is done, all games, not just xbox, but pc, ps4, nintendo etc are all programed on pc's so of course they were running on pc's that doesn't mean they are running pc ports they could easily be xboxone ports on basic pc hardware. 

 

If you want you can listen to AMD spruik their wares, but I while their is sufficient evidence to the contrary I'll just stick to the facts, thanks.

[mr moose]

And? Did you see the article saying Windows 7 "full support" ends in 2015?

 

MS says a lot of things. If they plan to give Windows 7 DX 12 then they would put DirectX 11.2 on 7. They have already shown they will screw over PC gamers as far as API multiple times. I have zero reason to believe that is changing. Want me to believe it? Put Direct X 11.2 on Windows 7 now. Until then? I could care less what MS says. 

 

Show me a direct statement from MS saying it will be on 7.

 

"they wanted to support the largest install base possible", does not = Win 7 and that install base can be spun several ways. Tablets/notebooks etc. Say 9 is a hit and 8 still is not. The two biggest install bases will be 7 and 9. I bet you that it will still be on 8/9 though. Many companies are flat out refusing to upgrade since 8 is so bad per their employees. Those companies will most likely buy Win 9 machines. Those aren't gaming PC's but they can be spun that way in a stat line. 

 

your still speculating without any actual facts.

[deathjester]

your still speculating without any actual facts.

 

Actually you are speculating and the facts you want to use have no validity since the "proof" is 2 years away from the statement. I have a fact. DirectX 11.2 is NOT on Windows 7. It is a dead API for us BECAUSE it is not on Win 7. Please list upcoming Direct X 11.2 games on the way for us. You want me to agree with a line of speculation that goes against the track record Microsoft has shown for a decade and which PC gamers are suffering for now.

 

Witcher 3? Will not be using Direct X 11.1 or 11.2. Why? Market share. 

 

http://www.dsogaming.com/interviews/cd-projekt-red-talks-the-witcher-3-tech-tessellation-physx-dx11-2-windows-8-global-illumination/

 

DSOGaming: What’s your opinion about Windows 8 and DX11.2? Will you be using any of DX11.2′s exclusive features?

 

BT: We will definitely make sure that our games have no problem running on Windows 8 and 8.1 but at this point we are not considering using any of the DX11.1 or 11.2 features. It is very important for us to keep the platform specific changes to a minimum while still making use of everything that’s available to us. Some of the DX11.1 features are actually available in DX11 via standard APIs, so we are using those in the development process but not necessarily in the released game.

 

Watch Dogs? Was a game engine built around memory tiling. Seeing that Xbox One uses 11.2, a DDR3 memory pool and the VRAM requirements were crazy on the PC I wonder how a DX 11.2 would have performed. My guess is better. MS of course did not invent that technology and OpenGL demoed and had it long before. Microsoft sure as hell is doing a good job at keeping it from us on game development though aren't they? 

[bogus]

You still don't understand how the programing is done, all games, not just xbox, but pc, ps4, nintendo etc are all programed on pc's so of course they were running on pc's that doesn't mean they are running pc ports they could easily be xboxone ports on basic pc hardware.

If you want you can listen to AMD spruik their wares, but I while their is sufficient evidence to the contrary I'll just stick to the facts, thanks.

Lololol ok ok, I'll make this easy on you : show us the technical proof that forza was a port. Oh and show us the differences between E3 demos and the "forza port" lol.

I wonder if you can see the source code just by looking at the game running.

I hope you don't say : "its a port because Microsoft and NVIDIA said so", when I linked to technical presentations, devs quotes, tech journalists, none of them works for AMD and bluntly saw the obvious : dx12=dx11.2+mantle

[mr moose]

 

Actually you are speculating and the facts you want to use have no validity since the "proof" is 2 years away from the statement. I have a fact. DirectX 11.2 is NOT on Windows 7. It is a dead API for us BECAUSE it is not on Win 7. Please list upcoming Direct X 11.2 games on the way for us. You want me to agree with a line of speculation that goes against the track record Microsoft has shown for a decade and which PC gamers are suffering for now.

 

Witcher 3? Will not be using Direct X 11.1 or 11.2. Why? Market share. 

 

http://www.dsogaming.com/interviews/cd-projekt-red-talks-the-witcher-3-tech-tessellation-physx-dx11-2-windows-8-global-illumination/

 

DSOGaming: What’s your opinion about Windows 8 and DX11.2? Will you be using any of DX11.2′s exclusive features?

 

BT: We will definitely make sure that our games have no problem running on Windows 8 and 8.1 but at this point we are not considering using any of the DX11.1 or 11.2 features. It is very important for us to keep the platform specific changes to a minimum while still making use of everything that’s available to us. Some of the DX11.1 features are actually available in DX11 via standard APIs, so we are using those in the development process but not necessarily in the released game.

 

Watch Dogs? Was a game engine built around memory tiling. Seeing that Xbox One uses 11.2, a DDR3 memory pool and the VRAM requirements were crazy on the PC I wonder how a DX 11.2 would have performed. My guess is better. MS of course did not invent that technology and OpenGL demoed and had it long before. Microsoft sure as hell is doing a good job at keeping it from us on game development though aren't they? 

 

 

1. I am not speculating because I have watched the video, you seem to be having trouble understanding the difference between speculation  (making stuff up to suit your agenda) and repeating what MS has stated officially.

 

I will probably never use 11.2 unless it ends up being part of the dx12 package that gets released on 7 because I have no intention of updating for another 5 years, by then I will likely get win 9 or something else all together.

 

 

Lololol ok ok, I'll make this easy on you : show us the technical proof that forza was a port. Oh and show us the differences on E3 demos as well.

I wonder if you can see the source code just by looking at the game running.

I hope you don't say : "its a port because Microsoft and NVIDIA said so", when I linked to technical presentations, devs quotes, tech journalists, none of them works for AMD and bluntly saw the obvious : dx12=dx11.2+mantle

Oh please, you have one dev on twitch claiming that and the rest work for AMD.  Your post makes little sense, I think you are confused. you clearly don't understand why the game was running on a pc, you seem to think that the particular port makes a difference, they where being showcased in june 2013, when we had nether a working mantle let alone knew anything about dx12.  You have simply been hoodwinked by AMD propoganda. 

 

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/2014/03/27/who-was-first-directx-12-or-mantle-nvidia-or-amd/

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Microsoft-Introduces-us-DX12-My-Thoughts-Industry-Moving-Forward-0

http://www.techradar.com/au/news/computing/pc/how-directx-12-is-set-to-supercharge-pc-gaming-1235819

 

DX12 is not mantle.

[The_Strict_Nein]

LOL yeah sure... 4 years... 2 more to come out... 6 years of development.

AMD did it successfully in 2/3 years... Yeah...

It doesn't come to your mind that's just a PR stunt so Microsoft doesn't make themselfs look like they just didn't care for DirectX?

There are email leaks stating the state of DirectX in the past years, interviews saying there were no plans for new DirectX... yet after AMD announced Mantle, Microsoft was already for 4 years developing what AMD developed! Oh, AMAZING! 

You guys are too soft on PR

 

You do realise that Mantle works on about a dozen cards, whereas DX12 needs to work on any card that is 6 years old or younger today AND any card in the future.

 

It's far more complicated than it appears. AMD could do it in such a short space of time because they only cared about AMD cards, whereas MS need to support every possible card config.

 

Every different architecture requires a different approach to implementing DX12 and low-level calls.

 

When the same generation of card (the R9 series) have several different architectures, even developing for one generation is complicated. Case in point, Mantle currently only works on the GCN architecture, not every AMD architecture.

 

Furthermore, you can easily port one game to a specific card with a specific architecture, but Microsoft isn't concerned with one game and one architecture, but every DX12 game and every DX12 architecture.

[flibberdipper]

Still, I think Vista can take advantage of DX 12. Why are there so many Vista haters? I think it looks so pretty and it led to the pretty and popular Windows 7.

I know you posted this a long time ago, but I saw the topic again, so.... Vista is slow as balls. Even Windows 7 was faster on my netbook/desktop. And Windows 7 has features that Vista doesn't that are really nice to have (Aero Snap being one of my favorites).

[CreativeTHC]

Sow what this rly means for a normal user?!

[Nicktrance]

imagine if it wasnt what a dick move that would be

 

Well up until this announcement it was planned to be Windows 8 and higher only...

 

Edit: Sorry, didn't see how old this topic was!

[mr moose]

Sow what this rly means for a normal user?!

Not much, in fact until it's released it means nothing.  And even then if we look back over gaming history, the biggest issues gamers have faced were the cost of hardware and the constant need to upgrade it more then any API changes.

 

Well up until this announcement it was planned to be Windows 8 and higher only...

 

Edit: Sorry, didn't see how old this topic was!

 

The thread started a while ago but it's still very relevant. 

[airdeano]

due to the old data/information this thread has, this thread was necro-vived

unnecessarily. please start new thread with more recent news/information.

 

closing thread.