Seasonic Prime/Focus

[Przunk]

Hi.

Does anyone know the difference between these two PSUs?:

 - seasonic snow silent 550w (gold)

 - seasonic focus PX 550 (platinum)

 

I know about efficiency differences, but I am not sure which one is better. The snow silent one is highest (?) Prime line and focus PX is not (?). 

 

Snow silent was advertised as "silent" psu because of hybrid cooling mode, but focus PX also has that feature. 

 

Looking at the specs, focus PX would be better because it's the same psu but with platinum rating. But it's not white. That's all. Am I right? 

 

Thank you.

[OfficialTechSpace]

Nothing important in terms of difference between the two for the average consumer.

 

They're both single-rail configs, and are A-Tier PSU's according to our PSU Tier List.

 

The PX 550 is best-in-class, although that may or may not make a difference to you, your mileage may vary.

[Juular]

Seasonic PRIME Snow Silent 550W and 650W are actually based on Focus Gold and Focus Platinum respectively, despite the name, yay Seasonic. So Focus Platinum is technically better, but really, for the price it usually goes for it doesn't not worth it. Because efficiency means nothing, there are quiet units with 80+ Gold rating for cheaper and with better internals. Fans especially, Seasonic uses 'run-in-the-mill' Hong Hua rifle bearing (marketed as FDB) for all Focus and Prime versions, even 300$ Prime Titaniums, with cheap drivers it seems at that judging by an amount of reports of these fans ticking despite the same fans (with different driver IC) in Corsair RMx PSUs don't. Whereas for this price there are a variety of PSUs with better fans. Like fans with 'true' Matsushita's FDB bearings in Corsair RM-i/HX, be quiet! Straight Power 11 / Dark Power Pro 12, might be just a marketing bullet point to some degree but still.

[freeagent]

No problem with my Prime GX.

 

Rails are cock solid, and the fan is quiet. I don't hear it over the others in my system. FWIW I got my Prime GX for less than the Corsair on Newegg at the time. Also in my case, at the time anything over 750w being available was rare.

 

Just maxing out my CPU has the system pulling 370w at the wall lol.. should have waited for something bigger.. ahh well.

[--SID--]

21 minutes ago, freeagent said:

cock solid

21 minutes ago, freeagent said:

I got my Prime GX for less than the Corsair

Less than HX? That's normal because HX is a few classes better.

[freeagent]

1 hour ago, --SID-- said:

Less than HX? That's normal because HX is a few classes better.

That I could not say.. but it replaced a CM M2 Silent Pro 850w

 

That CM is actually powering an old Z77/GTX 580 system, and she is still pretty tight.

 

I just bought the Seasonic because it was cheap.. and new.. but I was torn between the RMX and the Prime.

 

I did hurt a Corsair PSU in the past, so that also helped guide my hand.. 

 

I did not pursue an RMA because it was my fault.. I also hurt a Thermaltake with the same system so..

 

I don't have anything bad to say about Corsair, so I am not speaking as a fan boy..

 

Heatsinks and motherboards you might hear me talk a little smack..

[IIIIIIIIII]

12 hours ago, Juular said:

Fans especially, Seasonic uses 'run-in-the-mill' Hong Hua rifle bearing (marketed as FDB) for all Focus and Prime versions, even 300$ Prime Titaniums,

Can you tell me more about this?

[Juular]

6 hours ago, IIIIIIIIII said:

Can you tell me more about this?

What exactly ? All Focus and Prime units use the same fan, pseudo-FDB (rifle really) from Hong Hua, 'same' fan as in 2018 RM-x too. Except that there are reports of Seasonic Focus and Prime units ticking at low RPM, @jonnyGURUsuspects that's because they use different driver ICs. Also, Jon kinda cringed finding out that they use Great Power / Champion FETs as main switchers in Gold Focus / Primes (Platinum/Titanium are Infineon IIRC) but i have nothing to add here.

[IIIIIIIIII]

3 hours ago, Juular said:

What exactly ? All Focus and Prime units use the same fan, pseudo-FDB (rifle really) from Hong Hua, 'same' fan as in 2018 RM-x too.

Regarding the fact that the Hong Hua fan used in the Seasonic is a rifle bearing. Is there any source that the fan used in the RMx (Maybe NR series) and the Honghua fan used in the Seasonic are the same?

 

I am confused because I am ignorant of cooling fans. Does the fan used in the AX use a different bearing? How are Hong Hua fans promoted as FDB different from 'real' FDB fans?

 

[freeagent]

Lots of guys here don’t like Seasonic.

[Juular]

1 hour ago, IIIIIIIIII said:

Is there any source that the fan used in the RMx (Maybe NR series) and the Honghua fan used in the Seasonic are the same?

Jon. He said that RMx and RM fans are nearly identical aside of better IC in the former, Corsair branding and the impeller shape. So i should've said RM actually, not RMx.

1 hour ago, IIIIIIIIII said:

Regarding the fact that the Hong Hua fan used in the Seasonic is a rifle bearing.

I don't think there was a teardown of Focus/Prime fan ever, so again, that's mainly from Jon's words. But it's expected really, a lot of FDB/HDB fans on the market are really just rifle on closer inspection because real FDB is (still?) patented.

1 hour ago, IIIIIIIIII said:

How are Hong Hua fans promoted as FDB different from 'real' FDB fans?

The difference being the groove on inner surface i think. Jon might have some more info on differences between Matsushita's FDB and Hong Hua 'FDB'. @jonnyGURU

1 hour ago, IIIIIIIIII said:

Does the fan used in the AX use a different bearing?

Again, IIRC, Jon said that it's the same fan as in Prime (with better IC choice controller by Corsair maybe), so no, it's rifle, in contrast with RM-i/AX-i/HX/HX-i having Matsushita's FDB (and well, RM-x 2021, Sunon's maglev).

[Juular]

21 minutes ago, freeagent said:

Lots of guys here don’t like Seasonic.

There's a difference between not liking Seasonic and not liking their products, i.e understanding their flaws and knowing that there are better options. When it comes to Seasonic products, i can only recommend Focus and it's rebrands when they're cheap enough, and they often are. As a mid-range option Focus is perfect, because it is a mid-range PSU. Prime on the other hand is often overpriced for what it is, with Corsair and be quiet! offerings having better value, among other brands. And Seasonic low-end stuff is just a total cat-in-the-sack, just like EVGA's. Zero reviews on most, with scraps of information suggesting that they aren't nearly as good as their price tag makes them look like. A PSU manufacturer that refuses to send out review samples for their products is a huge red flag for me. And now when we have Seasonic made EVGA G6, that's a double red flag lol.

[Sakee__]

18 minutes ago, Juular said:

The difference being the groove on inner surface i think. Jon might have some more info on differences between Matsushita's FDB and Hong Hua 'FDB'.

Protechnic Electric now holds the patent on this bearing. Hong Hua buys from them. It is the original Matsushita bearing. However, their own Long Life Sleeve Bearing really is different from Matsushita's Fluid Dynamic Bearing.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Sakee__
As Jon said below...

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Juular said:

Hong Hua rifle bearing (marketed as FDB) for all Focus and Prime versions

Are you sure about that?  Hong Hua DOES actually use proper Matsushita bearings when asked.

20 minutes ago, Juular said:

Jon. He said that RMx and RM fans are nearly identical aside of better IC in the former, Corsair branding and the impeller shape. So i should've said RM actually, not RMx.

I don't think there was a teardown of Focus/Prime fan ever, so again, that's mainly from Jon's words. But it's expected really, a lot of FDB/HDB fans on the market are really just rifle on closer inspection because real FDB is (still?) patented.

The difference being the groove on inner surface i think. Jon might have some more info on differences between Matsushita's FDB and Hong Hua 'FDB'. @jonnyGURU

Again, IIRC, Jon said that it's the same fan as in Prime (with better IC choice controller by Corsair maybe), so no, it's rifle, in contrast with RM-i/AX-i/HX/HX-i having Matsushita's FDB (and well, RM-x 2021, Sunon's maglev).

Actually, while I did say that a lot of fans sold are marketed as FDB are just rifle, I never said the Focus/Prime is or is not FDB.  Like you said, there's been no proper tear down.  The Hong Hua used in the AX is FDB, not rifle.  And the RMx and RM both use the same "low noise IC" regardless of Hong Hua or Corsair branding.  We always use the IC unless it's a sleeve bearing fan (ex: VS, CX, CV, etc.)

 

Also, the patent for FDB is expired.   Many of us buy the bearing from the same factories in Japan and Taiwan though, for the same reason China took until 2017 to figure out how to make a ball point pen (one of my favorite examples of how we take tech for granted:  https://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out-how-to-make-ballpoint-pens-2017-1).  Rifling the inside of the bearing takes very precision machinery that China doesn't have... or didn't have until recently.  A company called "Dongguan Weili" has perfected the manufacturing process (actually improved upon it) and is the FDB that Thermaltake uses (although TT doesn't call it FDB.  They call it Hydro.)  The only problem is that Hong Sheng makes the fan. 

 

[Guest]

Just now, Sakee__ said:

Protechnic Electric now holds the patent on this bearing. Hong Hua buys from them. It is the original Matsushita bearing.

Protechnic doesn't hold the patent.  The patent is expired.  But yes, Protechnic makes/made FDB for Matsushita because Matsushita stopped making their own bearings quite some time ago.

[Juular]

@Sakee__@jonnyGURUGood to know that the patent has expired.

Just now, jonnyGURU said:

The Hong Hua used in the AX is FDB, not rifle.

Might've misremembered then, thanks for clarification.

1 minute ago, jonnyGURU said:

Hong Hua DOES actually use proper Matsushita bearings when asked.

So we need a Focus & Prime fans teardowns then ...

I think at best, Platinum & Titanium Focus and Primes might actually have real FDB then, with Focus Gold (and Prime, since it's Focus anyway), having rifle bearing.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Juular said:

@Sakee__@jonnyGURUGood to know that the patent has expired.

Might've misremembered then, thanks for clarification.

So we need a Focus & Prime fans teardowns then ...

I think at best, Platinum & Titanium Focus and Primes might actually have real FDB then, with Focus Gold (and Prime, since it's Focus anyway), having rifle bearing.

The idea that they use a rifle instead of an FDB might actually come from themselves.  Their own website illustrates and describes a rifle bearing fan while they use the term "FDB":

 

Also remember their PSUs aren't rated at continuous @ 50°C.  When you're buying an 850W, you're getting a 680W.

 

[Juular]

1 hour ago, jonnyGURU said:

Also remember their PSUs aren't rated at continuous @ 50°C.  When you're buying an 850W, you're getting a 680W.

Eh, not sure if want to treat this marketing bullshit as that, they're just 40°C PSUs for me. But yeah, that's another reason. Although for me it's practically an useless metric anyway, sure, it shows that they aren't sure if their designs are good for continuous operation under 50°C or they're just being safe, but there's no way for any PSU manufacturer to force that. Say, if i'm using a Corsair HX PSU under 60°C ambient temperature conditions and it eventually fails, and then i RMA it saying that i've used it under 50°C ambient, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, are you ? Sure, there would be some melting going on, or other signs of continuous operation under high temperature conditions, but was it 50°C or 60°C ? Same with 40°C vs 50°C.

[Guest]

Just now, Juular said:

Eh, not sure if want to treat this marketing bullshit as that, they're just 40°C PSUs for me. 

I know... But I bust my ass to make sure a PSU like RMx and up operates full load, 24/7 @ 50°C and then these slackers put out a "premium product" that only works at full load at the same temperature as my "entry level" product.  It pisses me off.

[freeagent]

I find this all interesting, I am learning as I go.. I know nothing of PSU's. I am just a user

 

I enjoy listening.

 

I would have liked an RMX 850.. at least this years model is out and available now..

 

When I was in the market the only thing bigger than my 750 that was available was a Rosewill and a Thermaltake..

[Star_Hunter]

I have a new 3080ti and 5950x system that I initially was going to use a Corsair Rm1000x 2021 with but had just ordered a Seasonic Tx-1000. However, based on this discussion it seems I should just stick with the cheaper Corsair instead. I wouldn’t mind getting getting something higher end but I’m nearly out time to return the current Corsair. 
 

Should I just stick with what I have?

[Juular]

50 minutes ago, Star_Hunter said:

I have a new 3080ti and 5950x system that I initially was going to use a Corsair Rm1000x 2021 with but had just ordered a Seasonic Tx-1000. However, based on this discussion it seems I should just stick with the cheaper Corsair instead. I wouldn’t mind getting getting something higher end but I’m nearly out time to return the current Corsair.

Seasonic Prime TX is no higher-end than Corsair RM-x 2021, stick with it. The only objectively better things about Prime are single-end PCIe cables and the absence of capacitors in them, but for the price difference between RM-x and Prime TX you might as well just get a Corsair aftermarket PCIe cables instead.