Apple: We’re more innovative. Google: Hold my beer

[Emily Young]

We don’t usually cover Google events, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t important – It’s just not as big as an Apple event. This time, though, there was simply too much to ignore…

 

 

Buy Google Pixel Phone (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/j41UU0N

Buy Google Wear OS Watches (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/fsHMvAV

[ahuckphin]

Alright ... Android 12 gets a sweet new look.

 

Now how many manufactures of smartphones will implement this new look oppose to their own look?

 

How many manufactures will be allow existing customers to update to Android 12? (provide system, software update) 

 

I guess we will have to wait and see. 

 

Lastly, is applications going to have better access to the camera? 

 

EDIT. Noticed HMD global / Nokia absent from Android 12 beta devices list. I don't remember if they were listed for previous Android beta devices. 

[RejZoR]

Android 12 is awesome. Too bad basically no one will get it on pretty much any devices they own. You'll pretty much have to buy a new phone yet again. I can just see all the vendors shelling out absolutely horseshit excuses just to push users in buying new phone because that will give them this cool new major Android update.This is why I've grown to hate Android and not much has changed since because they keep on doing this shit. So, can't wait to see what Apple will bring with iOS 15 and 16. After already getting 14 and 13 in the past. Coz I can pretty much predict that I will. Good luck with that on any Android. God it'll be such a crapfest in all comment sections about release dates and supported models once people start realizing they won't be getting Android 12 on so many devices...

[MultiGamerClub]

Android can? Man i miss linux cola cans..

[SmooveNoob]

would it work if i tried to install the beta version meant for zenfone 8 on an older asus phone?

[Ordinarily_Greater]

Ah yes Android 12, too bad not everyone will exactly have it because of vendor bullcrap and stuff, can't wait to see what iOS 15 and 16 would bring after getting iOS 13 and 14. This is why I have grown to dislike android because of these kinds of crap.

 

sure enough the one who put out that prediction. Good that you dislike the situation of Google's goal of giving improvements to the Android OS with this or pretty much the updates of Android before, being used by other phone companies who dwells in making android phones as a scheme for them to sell more phones. Being so confident of that prediction too eh? 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Ordinarily_Greater
My bad I got ignorant of the whole point of this discussion

[Master Disaster]

I'm installing the beta right now, Android 12 looks awesome.

[Egg-Roll]

Uh I have a issue with Linus's claims at the 5:50 mark.

 

My phones technically have all day battery so does my LG Urbane 2 watch(well, did).

Payments without a phone work just fine with my LG as well, that said I've never used it w/o the phone nearby but it loves not staying connected to said phone. Plus Google Pay doesn't need a actual network to function most of the time so I am assuming that is true for connectivity for the watch as well.

Health and fitness app, I guess Linus never heard of Fit? Might not be as accurate or well done as Apples (idk about that), but one exists as my watch has it.

 

Everything else on his list of complaints I either don't use or just don't care. Sounds like Linus is more blaming Google on manufactures faults (Sammy) than Googles OS issues, or has not actually looked at WearOS in a long time.

[Guest]

I will enjoy Android 12...... in 2023 if ever considering I JUST got 11 on my less than a year old Xperia 1 ii.

[Egg-Roll]

10 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

I will enjoy Android 12...... in 2023 if ever considering I JUST got 11 on my less than a year old Xperia 1 ii.

The issue is google has only mandated the manufactures to output security updates and not the OS aspect of it. Can't find it now but I thought Google made it mandatory for 1 OS upgrade as well, which you now have, enjoy your outdated tech. None of my phones will see 11+ because they came from 9>10 or for the A-One phone 8.1>10... 

Any device that is slated to get the update are devices that share the same OS in near identicality. So basically Android One, and Google Pixel lineup, and up to 3 OS upgrades.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

The issue is google has only mandated the manufactures to output security updates and not the OS aspect of it. Can't find it now but I thought Google made it mandatory for 1 OS upgrade as well, which you now have, enjoy your outdated tech. None of my phones will see 11+ because they came from 9>10 or for the A-One phone 8.1>10... 

Any device that is slated to get the update are devices that share the same OS in near identicality. So basically Android One, and Google Pixel lineup, and up to 3 OS upgrades.

Oh I'm well aware. My real phone's an iPhone 12 Pro Max.

I only use my android phone for my narcotics business.

[sub68]

1 hour ago, Den-Fi said:

I only use my android phone for my narcotics business.

I don't know to take this as a joke or very serious

[sydh]

Damn at first glance I'm really not a fan of the new notification panel. I hope you get more than color pallets and line weights for native UI tweaks. Being able to put everything back into a slimmed down mode like previous Android versions will be nice.

[RejZoR]

16 hours ago, Ordinarily_Greater said:

Ah yes Android 12, too bad not everyone will exactly have it because of vendor bullcrap and stuff, can't wait to see what iOS 15 and 16 would bring after getting iOS 13 and 14. This is why I have grown to dislike android because of these kinds of crap.

 

uhuh, say it what you will, i cAn pReDiCT eXActLy thIS is HoW thE wHOle ANDroId twelVe thiNg iS gOinG to pRoGReSs

 

sure enough the one who put out that prediction. Good that you dislike the situation of Google's goal of giving improvements to the Android OS with this or pretty much the updates of Android before, being used by other phone companies who dwells in making android phones as a scheme for them to sell more phones. Being so confident of that prediction too eh? 

No, it's just almost 10 years of dealing with this crap with no improvement from what I can see today. It's not prediction as much as it's just description of observed situation.

 

Literally every single comment section about any kind of Android update goes like this:

- Any idea when update is coming out?

- Oh, it's live, I'm checking for updates, still nothing.

- It's been 3 weeks, why I'm not getting the update?

- Is model X going to get the update?

- Why is model X not getting the update?

 

That's how I was involved when I used Android and it's pretty much a typical chain of conversation for pretty much any update that has ever been released for Android phones. Especially when big significant updates like Android 12 are involved, vendors always have some bullshit excuses to leave you out and force you to buy new phone to "update" the OS. Or they had shit policy in the first place and you were left out anyways. That's the problem I have with Android. The OS itself is great, it's the asshole behavior of everyone who make it and use it, starting with Google and their data hoarding behavior to vendors who seem to give no shit about it and only care to sell you more phones with "new" OS than deliver it to you as update. Detailed enough?

[LAwLz]

On 5/19/2021 at 11:50 AM, RejZoR said:

Android 12 is awesome. Too bad basically no one will get it on pretty much any devices they own. You'll pretty much have to buy a new phone yet again. I can just see all the vendors shelling out absolutely horseshit excuses just to push users in buying new phone because that will give them this cool new major Android update.This is why I've grown to hate Android and not much has changed since because they keep on doing this shit. So, can't wait to see what Apple will bring with iOS 15 and 16. After already getting 14 and 13 in the past. Coz I can pretty much predict that I will. Good luck with that on any Android. God it'll be such a crapfest in all comment sections about release dates and supported models once people start realizing they won't be getting Android 12 on so many devices...

The update situation has gotten way better. Roughly 50% of Android phones are on Android 10 or Android 11, and that's including all the craptastic phones that are still (somehow) active out there despite being like 6 years old.

If you got a relatively new Samsung phone you will get this update, and that's most people.

 

But you can't really compare iOS and Android version updates.

With iOS, version upgrades are a way bigger deal. You can't update the music player without installing an OS update for example.

On Android, even the APIs can change (to some degree) without having to install an OS update. Besides, a lot of the changes in Android updates are to make it easier for OEMs, not the users. Things like support for quad bayer cameras. As a user, this means absolutely nothing. Android phones that has quad bayer cameras already have that support, because the OEM added it. This change in Android 12 just means that OEMs won't have to write their own support for it. A lot of things are that way in Android updates.

 

Comparing iOS and Android updates is like comparing apples and oranges. Completely different things.

[RejZoR]

@LAwLz

More like Apples and Androids I know updates work differently, but an update is still an update. Android doesn't get ANY of the fancy features through app/component updates, it has to be major system update. And even if iOS requires "full" update just to update Safari, that doesn't change the fact it gets updates for everything from Safari, security bugs or major OS versions and it gets them timely and for very long time. And I have issues with the Android's way of doing because I've been endlessly disappointed with it. Even this "most phones will get it" would almost certainly mean "you're not getting it in my glorious case". It just happened waaaaaay too often.

 

Chances are I'm going to try Android again after my iPhone XR runs out of its life, but I still have this annoying feeling it's going to disappoint me yet again when I do.

[Egg-Roll]

6 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Especially when big significant updates like Android 12 are involved, vendors always have some bullshit excuses to leave you out and force you to buy new phone to "update" the OS. Or they had shit policy in the first place and you were left out anyways. That's the problem I have with Android.
...

Chances are I'm going to try Android again after my iPhone XR runs out of its life, but I still have this annoying feeling it's going to disappoint me yet again when I do.

Right now the issue is they have no reason for doing an OS update, like I mentioned before if they are required it's only one. It's something google or if they refuse the government needs to implement. Oh for your BS excuses to buy a new phone, Apple are the masters of that... Dying battery? Solution: Buy a new phone, cracked glass? Likely buy a new phone... 

 

There's a article floating around the internet talking about how the newer SoCs could handle up to 4 OS updates with the help from Google, however if you ask me that's a load of crap. Am I supposed to believe my SD 660 with 6GB of ram can't handle at least 11? Or is that a limitation self-imposed by Googles A One program? I'm leaning to the latter. I think the next android phone I'm going to get (I can't patronize Apple in their current state) will have a open bootloader with the a active community for roms, or the ability to update it myself.

[RejZoR]

@Egg-Roll

Hardly. I have iPhone XR and I have no need to buy new phone. In fact because of the mentioned issues I had with Android and not iOS, it gives me even less reasons to upgrade since I also get all the OS updates. Battery is not an issue either even after almost 3 years. Granted, I'm charging it in best way possible, but it's not an issue. Cheapest replacement by a specialized Apple service is 65€. Most expensive I could find was 115€. Both for XR. 65€ for another 3 years is really a no brainer even if you can get it cheaper on eBay and replaced by some Jeff in a garage.

[Egg-Roll]

6 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

@Egg-Roll

Hardly. I have iPhone XR and I have no need to buy new phone. In fact because of the mentioned issues I had with Android and not iOS, it gives me even less reasons to upgrade since I also get all the OS updates. Battery is not an issue either even after almost 3 years. Granted, I'm charging it in best way possible, but it's not an issue. Cheapest replacement by a specialized Apple service is 65€. Most expensive I could find was 115€. Both for XR. 65€ for another 3 years is really a no brainer even if you can get it cheaper on eBay and replaced by some Jeff in a garage.

Apple wins for updates hands down, won't argue there. However I find even 65 way too expensive, but after looking up my model I found a UK site willing to do it for 85... It's because of the batteries being sealed up inside. Outside of that the battery is like 15-25 to buy, the extra cost is thanks to all the issues the manufactures have done. Worst part is my phones not even IP rated... Samsung made a huge mistake on making the S5 because they proved how useless our modern day phones are in terms for battery replacement with IP resistance, only benefit for sealed phones is for wireless charging and outside of a car how many actually charge by wave vs cable?

 

My reference is towards the Apple stores and not so much the dealers/ authorized service shops, at least in Canada/US the first thing they do is ask if you have Apple Care, then try to push a new unit esp if it's a older model. Equally batteries are only one thing that can go on a phone, now if you are careful with your phone you'll never run into any other issue but lets say in year 4 your screen breaks. Apple won't likely fix it the repair shops likely can't either because Apple won't sell them the parts, then you head down the potential bricking of your phone road by DIY, maybe not today but a potential future update, which means you are perpetually fearing a update that could brick your device. It's that practice why I can't trust and won't buy a Apple product. Regardless the fact I've not broken a single phone outside of a screen once and a USB port dying, but the fact I can't fix it on my own or go with a person/place I trust without a risk of Apple denying me use of my own device just leaves a back taste in my mouth.

 

To be fair to Apple they are not the only ones doing a lot of the BS most companies are, but they do take things to the extremes, I would say the only company who is worst than Apple is John Deere because they hurt farmers and in doing so hurts everyone.

[RejZoR]

I mean, phone was 850€ when new. Paying just 65€ for another 3 years of like new battery functionality is nothing. People get so anal about it and go in depths of AliExpress/eBay no name batteries and some nobody replacing it. It's the same people who take their car for service and they are told to replace brake pads, they'll ask if they are good for few more hundred kilometers. Or measure depth of tire tread and argue it's "good enough" just to save every € possible. I just find it utterly funny people piss 1500€ on damn phones and then bitch about I don't know, 100€ battery replacement like it's going to throw them in lifetime debt. It's just hilarious.

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

Apple wins for updates hands down, won't argue there. However I find even 65 way too expensive, but after looking up my model I found a UK site willing to do it for 85... It's because of the batteries being sealed up inside. Outside of that the battery is like 15-25 to buy, the extra cost is thanks to all the issues the manufactures have done. Worst part is my phones not even IP rated... Samsung made a huge mistake on making the S5 because they proved how useless our modern day phones are in terms for battery replacement with IP resistance, only benefit for sealed phones is for wireless charging and outside of a car how many actually charge by wave vs cable?

 

My reference is towards the Apple stores and not so much the dealers/ authorized service shops, at least in Canada/US the first thing they do is ask if you have Apple Care, then try to push a new unit esp if it's a older model. Equally batteries are only one thing that can go on a phone, now if you are careful with your phone you'll never run into any other issue but lets say in year 4 your screen breaks. Apple won't likely fix it the repair shops likely can't either because Apple won't sell them the parts, then you head down the potential bricking of your phone road by DIY, maybe not today but a potential future update, which means you are perpetually fearing a update that could brick your device. It's that practice why I can't trust and won't buy a Apple product. Regardless the fact I've not broken a single phone outside of a screen once and a USB port dying, but the fact I can't fix it on my own or go with a person/place I trust without a risk of Apple denying me use of my own device just leaves a back taste in my mouth.

 

To be fair to Apple they are not the only ones doing a lot of the BS most companies are, but they do take things to the extremes, I would say the only company who is worst than Apple is John Deere because they hurt farmers and in doing so hurts everyone.

The approach apple has on repair is one reason I won't give them any money,  and I think 65 euro is way too much so having other options is better even being able to do it myself although I can understand most people not wanting to repair their own device.

Android 12 looks nice, however I don't quite get why people are so focused on the OS version, security patches are more important IMO. Sure more OS updates would be better but at least Android apps can get updates without the need to update to a new OS version. And Android 10 still does everything I need it to, then again I'm not a power user,Firefox with an ad blocker,messaging, google maps,VLC for music,and a camera is really all I need from a phone.

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

I mean, phone was 850€ when new. Paying just 65€ for another 3 years of like new battery functionality is nothing. People get so anal about it and go in depths of AliExpress/eBay no name batteries and some nobody replacing it. It's the same people who take their car for service and they are told to replace brake pads, they'll ask if they are good for few more hundred kilometers. Or measure depth of tire tread and argue it's "good enough" just to save every € possible. I just find it utterly funny people piss 1500€ on damn phones and then bitch about I don't know, 100€ battery replacement like it's going to throw them in lifetime debt. It's just hilarious.

You're missing the point, having the option to replace a battery from a service besides the apple store is a good thing.

Why should I pay $80 for a battery worth maybe $30 when I could take it elsewhere that does it for $50, or do it myself? Companies telling you it's dangerous to have anyone else but their "authorized service" fix a device is a marketing scare tactic.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

@LAwLz

More like Apples and Androids I know updates work differently, but an update is still an update. Android doesn't get ANY of the fancy features through app/component updates, it has to be major system update. And even if iOS requires "full" update just to update Safari, that doesn't change the fact it gets updates for everything from Safari, security bugs or major OS versions and it gets them timely and for very long time. And I have issues with the Android's way of doing because I've been endlessly disappointed with it. Even this "most phones will get it" would almost certainly mean "you're not getting it in my glorious case". It just happened waaaaaay too often.

 

Chances are I'm going to try Android again after my iPhone XR runs out of its life, but I still have this annoying feeling it's going to disappoint me yet again when I do.

Android do get "fancy features" through non-OS updates.

For example last year nearby share got added through a non-system update. Recently it got updated so that if someone tries to share something and you got it turned off, you get an alert. That's a pretty big deal and it was pushed out just like that. Didn't even require a restart if I recall correctly. 

There have been updates like this one where a bunch of phones suddenly got AR support through a non-system update.

Just last month Google announced that they would push out a feature where phones in Greece and New Zealand can detect and warn about earthquakes. 

Like I said earlier, APIs can get added and changed through non-system updates as well. For example they introduced a new API for sleep tracking a couple of months ago. That didn't require a system update either.

 

 

I mean, what fancy features does Android 12 even have?

• Refreshed UI? Won't apply to most phones since they run a skinned version of Android. The new material design language will slowly roll out to apps independently of the OS upgrade.
• Built in Android TV remote... There is already an app for that.
• AVIF support is nice, but not something you need anytime soon. It's nice to have because in 5 years it will be a standard feature, and that's about the time it might be useful to have.

 

Security updates are being pushed out regularly for Android phones. It's just that they aren't major updates (like on iOS). I get security updates every month for my 3 year old S10, and I will keep getting regular security updates for another 2 years to come.

 

Again, OS updates on Android are completely different from OS updates on iPhones. OS updates are far less important on Android. I mean, the biggest differences I noticed when I updated my phone to Android 11 weren't even Android 11 features. I am not sure if I've even used or noticed an Android 11 feature. A lot of the Android 11 features were Pixel exclusive, or were already implemented by Samsung (like screen recording). The fact that the version number got bumped from 10 to 11 on my phone has not made any difference to me or most people. OneUI 2.0 to 3.0 was a big difference though, but that's not really related to Android 10 to Android 11.

[RejZoR]

You'll not get any of the fancy battery saving features and most likely not the CPU optimizations either. Which is what I'd be most interested in.

[Egg-Roll]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I mean, phone was 850€ when new. Paying just 65€ for another 3 years of like new battery functionality is nothing. People get so anal about it and go in depths of AliExpress/eBay no name batteries and some nobody replacing it. It's the same people who take their car for service and they are told to replace brake pads, they'll ask if they are good for few more hundred kilometers. Or measure depth of tire tread and argue it's "good enough" just to save every € possible. I just find it utterly funny people piss 1500€ on damn phones and then bitch about I don't know, 100€ battery replacement like it's going to throw them in lifetime debt. It's just hilarious.

Heaven forbid you find out you're getting ripped off by said company because their batteries are made by the same company as the cheap "knockoffs", or worst made with less quality control or equal and charged more for the name than the "knockoffs" (looking at you Sammy).

 

I've dealt with lithium batteries for a good while now, and I've yet to have a issue outside of the units sold by the manufacture, and no fires (neighbors freaked out however when I told them I used 3rd party batteries for my lawn mower, which fyi last longer than the name brand ones). This kind of fear mongering has some merit but not as much as one may think, in other words a deal that sounds too good to be true likely is but if the pricing matches with others (or what roughly name branded raw units sell for) then it's most likely safe. Like I said, no issues, tho my replacement battery for my corsair headset is losing charge faster than the original, but I didn't expect it to last 2 years either (still lasts all day and likely will for the next few months).

 

Oh for your car reference, you can actually do everything for free on your own w/o violating any warranty or safety laws, equally many shops will refuse you to drive away if they think your vehicle is unsafe to be on the road (they have that right at least in Canada), can't say the same about your phone now can you? Hell you can go to a local high school (that still has shops) and let the students machine/swap out your brakes (machining done by a machine obviously but will help them learn), balance tires etc. You can also buy the stuff needed for your car at your local car store too 90% of the time since everything is standardized, the other 10%? can be likely bought from scrap yards used, or from the dealer directly for a tiny profit. Your phone? Nope, you sol.

 

FYI I've not followed the trend of stupid and/or gullible, paying 1500 for anything tech but for a computer. A 400 buck phone from the right company will work for 99% of the people, this means anyone spending the 1000 more on a phone are the ones who are hurting the industry because of the words you've said. "Well you spent stupid amounts on a new phone, you can spend stupid amounts on repairing it too". Today I can go out and buy a new phone every year at 400-500 and still end up with more money saved than someone who buys a 1500 phone just to replace it after 2 years, but in reality my phones last 1.5-2 years before the batteries wear down (I keep them as backups), likely even longer now since I try buying phones with flagship battery sizes  Guess someone has to subsidize my phones, oh wait... Their Xiaomi phones, up till recently sold 5% more than cost  How badly screwed over did you get by a big brand then. Apple not so much due to updates, but all other Droids, ouch 

 

*note* for Xiaomi phones I disabled all invasive stuff, and don't use anything made by them.

 

  

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

The approach apple has on repair is one reason I won't give them any money,  and I think 65 euro is way too much so having other options is better even being able to do it myself although I can understand most people not wanting to repair their own device.

Android 12 looks nice, however I don't quite get why people are so focused on the OS version, security patches are more important IMO. Sure more OS updates would be better but at least Android apps can get updates without the need to update to a new OS version. And Android 10 still does everything I need it to, then again I'm not a power user,Firefox with an ad blocker,messaging, google maps,VLC for music,and a camera is really all I need from a phone.

Yea I won't be upgrading to 12 on my current phone, I would love to but I understand it likely won't happen (going bootloader isn't worth it either) and I love the now required frequent patch updates. Only reason why my phones don't last longer than 2 years is because I play battery intensive games. For music I use Rocket Music Player, I also don't care about the camera so much as if I know I'll need to use it for something important (or semi) I'll take my ELPH or RP with me to avoid using it, and yes I've had 0 issues walking into a movie theater with a camera lol...

[Kanna]

I hope my S9 will support this unless it will get this like Samsung one UI thing only instead